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May 27th, 2012
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If Tony dies, does the Feds' case die too? #970078
04/25/19 09:39 PM
04/25/19 09:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 175
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JackieAprile Offline OP
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JackieAprile  Offline OP
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The show showed that over a 7 year period, roughly from 2000 to 2007, or so the Feds were building a case specifically against Tony. He was the focal point. They had numerous rats who had Tony on tape, but all died before they could make it to the witness stand, and from what I understand, if if a witness isn't alive to verify what's on the tape, it's usually thrown out as evidence. In the case of Puss, he never got anything really incriminating on tape as is. Ray Curto did, but most of the guys who he had on tape were also dead like Ralphie and others by the time Tony goes to Holstein's. Chris is dead, so he's out as a potential witness and anything said about him on tape is kaput and even if it involved others, it can't be verified since he's dead. We never saw any of the other guys, besides presumably his crew, interacting with him, and that was before he was on Team Fed.

So, they have Carlo. Carlo answered directly to Tony, and to a lesser extent, Silvio.

Presuming Silvio never wakes up, and Tony did die in Holstein's - do they have to start from scratch?

Yes, he made a deal but pointing the finger on other guys, like Patsy or Paulie - without any wiretap evidence or wire evidence to back it up, isn't it just hearsay?

For example, the Feds had Gotti on tape discussing murders but it wasn't until they got Gravano on the stand to not only verify, but expand upon what was on the tapes, that they got him.

So, if Tony takes one at Holstein's - is the rest of the Family secure as far as indictment goes, for now?

Last edited by JackieAprile; 04/25/19 09:42 PM.
Re: If Tony dies, does the Feds' case die too? [Re: JackieAprile] #970145
04/26/19 05:57 PM
04/26/19 05:57 PM
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Goldy Offline
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Goldy  Offline
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Didn't seem to me that the FBI were really all that competent along with Tony getting extremely fortunate breaks. Ray Curto especially since it would appear he had been a wired up informant from before the timeline of the show began. Personally, I don't think Tony was killed, but that's not the point. IF he was killed, what does Carlo have to offer the FBI at that point? He doesn't have any dirt on NY or anyone important and I doubt the FEDS really care about Benny, Walden, Patsy or Paulie. There's not much Carlo could give them is there? Like you said it's hearsay and his word against theirs. And If Tony wasn't killed, what does he have on Tony besides the usual RICO predicates. He never ordered anyone killed by Carlo, he had nothing to do with Fat Dom. Carlo never witnessed him ordering anyone killed either. I'm sure Tony would've probably taken a plea deal and did some serious time, but not be locked away for life or anything. Unless there's something really obvious I'm missing that Carlo could link him to. But his flipping came pretty much out of nowhere when his kid got busted so he was mainly looking for a get out of jail free card for him.

Tony should have never yelled at Carlo in the car that one time. You could tell how hurt he was when he told him he should start sucking dick because Vito was so much more successful than he. Ha.

Re: If Tony dies, does the Feds' case die too? [Re: Goldy] #970223
04/27/19 04:48 PM
04/27/19 04:48 PM
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Posts: 175
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JackieAprile Offline OP
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JackieAprile  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Goldy
Didn't seem to me that the FBI were really all that competent along with Tony getting extremely fortunate breaks. Ray Curto especially since it would appear he had been a wired up informant from before the timeline of the show began. Personally, I don't think Tony was killed, but that's not the point. IF he was killed, what does Carlo have to offer the FBI at that point? He doesn't have any dirt on NY or anyone important and I doubt the FEDS really care about Benny, Walden, Patsy or Paulie. There's not much Carlo could give them is there? Like you said it's hearsay and his word against theirs. And If Tony wasn't killed, what does he have on Tony besides the usual RICO predicates. He never ordered anyone killed by Carlo, he had nothing to do with Fat Dom. Carlo never witnessed him ordering anyone killed either. I'm sure Tony would've probably taken a plea deal and did some serious time, but not be locked away for life or anything. Unless there's something really obvious I'm missing that Carlo could link him to. But his flipping came pretty much out of nowhere when his kid got busted so he was mainly looking for a get out of jail free card for him.

Tony should have never yelled at Carlo in the car that one time. You could tell how hurt he was when he told him he should start sucking dick because Vito was so much more successful than he. Ha.


To be fair Tony did order Vito to be killed by Carlo, through Sil, but Phil got Vito first. So there's at least that Tony put a contract out on Vito which Carlo would've been in on, so conspiracy to commit murder, and maybe, since there's no evidence the NY Crew was in on it since they kept it quiet, Tony takes a Murder 2 rap for that alone.

But his death I feel keeps a lot of others safe. Carlo's own crew, the ports, the Casino, construction (since Tony put him in charge of that), the Aprile Crew is probably fucked too. But we never see any of the main Soprano crew in on those rackets. So the main Soprano crew, the Barese Crew, whatever Bobby's crew was, that's probably all safe once Tony bites it.


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