With DiFronzo gone, DeLaurentis is allegedly the guy in charge of...what exactly?

Is the “Outfit” still a structured and vertically layered organization?

Did it morph into some sort of underworld within itself? A criminal subculture made of distinct, localized and loosely-associated crews, with no active administration on top, save for emeritus, wealthy members filling the role of occasional advisers?

Perhaps we’re looking at something even beyond that: independent groups with a shared history lacking any sort of ruling panel, each centered around few former members of a now fully defunct organization completely cut-off from the rest of the American LCN.

When was the last serious indictment that confirmed the many allegations about their elite status? Their scope, structural shape, influence, political pull and wealth. I’m talking unions, big-time construction/service industry racketeering, spread-out gambling rings, drugs, kick-ups, active connections to other criminal organizations and out-of-state LCN families, etc...

Family Secrets was mostly about murder cold cases.

According to this 1998 article, in the late 1990’s they were believed to have approximately 70 members and between 700 to 1,200 associates > http://www.ipsn.org/characters/coia/magazines/traditional_organized_crime_in_chicago.htm

According to Nick Calabrese’s testimony, they had around 60 made guys in the early 2000’s.

If these numbers were correct and we assume that their manpower didn’t decrease drastically in less than two decades it would make them bigger than Philly.

Yet the number of investigations are far too low for a criminal organization of that reported size.

The cases of the last few years involving Sarno, Fratto, Dziuban/Carparelli, Davis and Panozzo didn’t really painted them as refined, top-tier, organized nor “white collar”. It all seemed quite scattered around, average-to-small-time and boorish.

Does Chicago have its own Capeci? Where can I find reliable crime reports/intel about them? Scott Burnstrein’s website is far too fanboy-ish to be taken seriously.

We can’t use the “they’re so secretive, so smart, so well-connected...” card anymore. It’s like we’re talking about the illuminati or something.

PS — one of the authors of the Law Studies review I linked above published an article in 2016 about the Outfit and its reputed connections to street gangs. It’s pretty straightforward but there’s this interesting part where he implies:



What are these Southern Italian crime principals he referred to? The only possible explanation I could think of is that he meant that they have more to share with the Camorra or other Southern Italian criminal subcultures than the Sicilians. Which is quite odd because, if I remember correctly, Giancana was the one who introduced the making ceremony and “Sicilianized” the Outfit in order to be in line with crime families on the East Coast.

The Outfit always had non-italians in high ranking positions and give to the non-italians top guys the same power and respect that gave to capos while in the other families until the decline of the 1990s preferred to use their men.
For Giancana that sicilianized the outfit,before the made men invitecthe associates to a meeting and say to them "you're in" and so they become outfit made men.

http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.com/search/label/Chicago

4. Andriacci-Joseph The Builder 1932 (I)
5. Begenie-Phillip
6. Bellavia-Robert Gasbeet 1939
7. Berretoni-Anthony Dago Tony 1931 Chic, Hgts.
8. Bonavolante-Joseph 1957
9. Bruscato-Frank 1928
10. Carioscia-Michael 1933
11. Carparelli-Paul 1969
12. Caruso-Frank Jnr. Toots 1945
13. Cataudella-Nicholas 1959
14. Cataudella-Salvatore Sammy Cards 1952
15. Cecola-Salvatore 1945 L.V.
16. Cimino-Virgil 1943
17. Culotta-Joseph Joe Kong
18. Daddano-William Jnr 1935
19. D'Amico-Mario 1936
20. DeLaurentis-Salvatore Pizza Guy 1938
21. DeRosa-Frank 1943
22. DiFronzo-Peter 1933
23. Esposito-Anthony
24. Filippino-Rocco
25. Forliano-Thomas 1949
26. Fratto-John Des Moines, Iowa
27. Gagliano-Gary 1943
28. Giannone-Anthony
29. Guzzino-Nicholas 1942 Chicago Heights
30. Guzzino-Richard 1939
31. Ignoffo-Roland 1949
32. Inendino-James Jimmy I 1941
33. LaValley-James 1944-
34. Lombardi-Joseph Pretty Boy 1936
35. Lombardo-Joseph 1929 (I)
36. Lombardo-Rocco 1940 L.V.
37. Magnifichi-Michael 1962
38. Malmento-Michael 1931
39. Manno-Pat Jnr. 1933
40. Marcello-James Jimmy the Man 1942 (I)
41. Marcello-Michael 1950
42. Marino-Louis 1932
43. Martin-Gino Blackie 1922
44. Matassa-John Jnr. Pudgy 1951
45. Panno-Frank 1933-
46. Panozzo-Robert Pinocchio
47. Rizzola-Rick L.V.
48. Rosetti-Al
49. Salerno-Robert 1935
50. Scalise-Donald 1938
51. Scalise-Joseph Jerry 1937
52. Scalise-Terry 1956
53. Spano-Michael Jnr. 1940 Cicero
54. Spillone-Vito 1960
55. Spina-Christopher Nose 1953
56. Spirrizzi-John
57. Spirrizzi-Richard
58. Talerico-Joseph 1955
59. Talerico-Michael 1952
60. Tominello-Raymond 1940
61. Vena-Albert 1948

I think part of the Outfit's foundation was the corruption in Chicago. Someone on a documentary said once that the difference between NY and Chicago is that in NY the mafia existed in spite of the government whereas in Chicago the two were in collusion with each other, from the ground up. The city's not controlled by those mob friendly officials anymore. I know people still like to say Chicago is corrupted but that's just political banter. It's nothing like it was 50 years ago.

First due the racist the politicians wouldn't accept bribes by blacks or latinos but now the politicians aren't all white and for sure accept bribes by street gangs and for sure the same is for the police.

Politicians did accept bribes from Black racketeers, read up on Policy Kings Furio.

Every person out there has its price, if he won't do it for 10,000$ he will for 20,000$.Black/White/Yellow doesn't matter , whoever has the money to pay them , they accept.

If you mean Teddy Roe that was 60 years ago.

Furio, look into Howard Brookins, Walter Burnett, and the big one Willie Cochran, and you can find the connections on street gangs influence with Chicago politicians.

Kelly-Nash machine, Mushmouth, Jones Brothers, etc back in the 1920s/30s and prior. Read the book and you'll know more on them. Even here in the South , Policy/Numbers Kingpin had politicians in their pocker or mutual interests.

I haven’t visited this forum in a long time because there is almost nothing to talk about. There hasn’t been a major scam uncovered in almost decades now.

They had a video poker thing going in the early-mid 2000s but I can’t imagine that was enough to power an elite criminal organization then, or now.

It’s most likely completely dunzo.

If you have no major rackets, don’t use violence and don’t have any coherent structure, what makes you the mob?

People on here will argue the Outfit is so subversive no one really knows blah blah blah...phooey. They were powered by alcohol, then gambling and corruption, but evidence of their criminality bubbled up in various ways since it was founded, Now it’s near radio silence.

This generation’s Accardo likely owns something like a storage space empire in Elgin.

It’s over.

To believe the Outfit exists in anything more than myth you have to believe that it’s so subversive nobody knows what it’s doing and, concurrently, it never gets caught.

Historically it never functioned without putting people in trunks. Now it just doesn’t? How does it control anything? How does it protect itself?

It’s absurd. It’s a criminal organization. Even at its height when it was a legitimately terrifying entity, it had to kill people all the time to keep them in line. Now no one flips, no one rips them off and everyone on the street respects them because... why?

If you read the stuff from the late 90s/Family Secrets — much of the original reporting which took place over the precedfing 50 years — it’s clear it was almost finished then, and was actually fascinating as a relic of another era circa 2000..

An organization can’t function without being an organization. A couple hundred Ford employees can’t go off and start Ford 2; similarly a half dozen 75 year olds can’t carry out the activities of a “mob” in any meaningful sense.

I used to think it was on its last legs. At this point I would imagine it’s complely gone. Some of the old guys may still run a couple brothels or something as “sole proprietors” but I’d guess that’s the extent of it.

There aren’t even neighborhoods left where these guys came from. Not a single one.

So what explains that new FBI guy for Chicago, sallett or whatever is name is, saying that they are still watching the outfit and haven't forgot about them? I guess that's all made up too. If you think that the outfit is gone, you are hilariously misinformed.

@ Furio - thanks for that list but it’s quite outdated. Tony Dote and Rudy Fratto are allegedly made but don’t appear. Vito D. Spillone and Gino Martin passed away a few years ago.

I still don't get the whole “Southern Italian organized crime principles” statement by Johnson. And how does having higher up associates of non-Italian descent fit into that?

@ jonnynonos - my thoughts exactly. I forgot to mention the 28 members argument in my opening post but we all got the picture. What is available online about them doesn't make it look like a cohesive organization at all.

@ Moscone - typical government sensationalism. With the impact of black and Hispanic crime groups all over Chicagoland, bringing up the Outfit as a major point of focus for LE agencies is ridiculous.

Like I was saying in the OP, the mob in Chicago has scattered into small independent crews...at best. Similarly to the “Irish mob” in today’s Boston, today’s “Outfit” should be understood as a general term for a spread out criminal subculture made of smaller cliques of mostly Italian-last named crooks criminally unrelated to one another.

I take it by Bill Feather'site.I don't agreee with you,for sure in the last 50 y the other gangs gained the political influence that Outfit had,but that in a city like Chicago with not more italian recruitment pool,the Outfit still exist is a fact.But the Outfit wasn't a tipical LCN family and for this even if he had maybe 40/50 made men had more non-italian associates that are in the same level of the made men.Somone said that in the Outfit a capo was a boss in his own so from the outsite can look like small italian gangs but they had a hierarchy and are still powerful in the unions and had strong political influence that why the FBI are focused on it,because the others are only street level gangs.

I don’t fully disagree with you Furio. It’s a fact that the associate-per-member ratio in Chicago was wider than elsewhere, that plus the number of highly regarded non-Italians involved.

As I said in the OP we could be looking at a web of different crews still gravitating around a ruling center. But, based on the evidence available to us, I’m more inclined to believe that whatever is still going on is independent and loose. Like I said the best example that comes to mind are Irish-American crews in metro Boston. Definitely there, but fluid in structure, activity and membership.

Lastly, I wouldn’t underestimate the pull “street gangs” have in Chicago. Pull is unquestionably connected to fear, money and manpower. I doubt that a multimillionaire black or Hispanic kingpin with a literal army of men under him has a hard time getting his way with local public officials.

I want to add that people tend to forget that the Black & Hispanic underworld of Chicago have their syndicates as well. You have to understand it's more than street gangs.

I read somewhere that the bosses of the top mobs in Chicago live in the suburbs or out of town and there sending orders down the chain, the Young's kids that's doing all the shooting, I would imagine are on thier own

But the reason why the black mobs don't get as much attention as the Mafia is because thier hierarchy is not made public and there's not any beat writers that covers them daily

A general bias & ignorance is the reason for that overlook aspect. Think about the entire FBI personnel ( 35,000) and how many are Black? 4%. LoL.

Example: who's the boss for g.d?
Who's the boss for b.d.?
Who's the boss for vice Lords and Latin Kings?
And so in and so forth, we know who are the bosses for the Mafia families

For that information you'll have to get the updated Chicago Gang Book (2018) online. But word of caution on accuracy on who's actually is legit and falsely associated. Chicago street gangs ( aka Mobs/Nations) leadership have always been grounded in sections ( decks, cliques) for the top largest groups and more tight knit leadership for the smallest ones.

Therefore there's no single leader but leaders depending on who you're referring to specifically. Hispanic mobs generally have their traditional hierarchy in tact. Black mobs have a hierachy too just more cliquish groups.

I sure do, hence the quote marks.



Have you given a read to the article I linked about the Outfit and street gangs? What’s your opinion?

There aren't any more hierarchies

The new things are cliques of morons that control 1, 2, 3, or 4 blocks at the most and shoot at each other over social media beefs

The gang scene in chicago is over on an organized level

That 28 members thing is ancient and has been debated on here extensively. If I remember correctly, the posters who I considered more rational all ended up coming to a kind of consensus that it was the last time the FBI had given any real insight into membership and if you parce it up now — and now another 5 years later — probably half-to-three quarters are dead, in jail or like 90.

One of the interesting takeaways though — again, for people who display some kind of objectivity — was that virtually everyone on the list was a known gangster who had been arrested multiple times for high profile cases.

So in order to believe that the Outfit still has a fraction of the vitality it once had, you have to believe that a lot of new people have moved into those roles but no one knows who they are, really what they’re doing, and they never get caught. Which is obviously silly.

Arrests don't determine weather a family is active or not,if that was the case then buffalo and Detroit must be defunct. A few years ago we saw reports that the guys Sarno bought into the Cicero crew was causing problems...but nobody knows who they are, just because a family don't call the newspapers Everytime they make someone doesn't mean it's not happening

I actually read that some years ago. It's mutual benefits for both groups as with any other criminal element. Check out some of my past threads which have plenty of conversations on the LCN/Street Orgs interactions.

I digress though. Outfit is still active just wouldn't expect feds to roll out indictments every other year when it's lightweight syndicate ( membership wise). Same can be said with Chicago street gangs that are the same size or somewhat larger than the Outfit ( literally are a dozen or so street orgs of comparable size).

I can attest there are defo more than 28 members and more than the 6o that calabrese testified to. Are they on the corners anymore muscling shopkeepers for protection? No. They are deeply tied into city politics however. Interstate trucking hijacking, still some union racketeering, loan sharking & semi-legitimate business. They have evolved. They are stil heavily tied into chgo police dept. their structure is more alligned to the camorra. Family clans are the m. o.
No more outsiders. Remember when calabrese sr told jr about christmas tree. Stonger but smaller? They will never be what they once where but are still viable, still respected. If not, why was there no retribution when panozzo was jacking those cartel stash houses?

They still have killers in the family. A couple of years ago when Chuckie Russell got pinched, they found out that he was killing black drug dealers and leaving their bodies in bad neighborhoods to make it look like it was other gangs. Guy was even trying to buy Uzi submachine guns and stuff, and he was up there in age too.

An italian investigation few years back said Chicago is also recruiting a lot of zips.

For the sake of debate, here are some problems with this theory.

They almost never get caught doing what you say.

It doesn’t make sense that throughout their history they needed Harry Alemans killing people left and right to keep them in line and now they just dont.

Without doing an analysis, I do not believe any of the activities you mention would be lucrative enough to power a quasi criminal empire. Illicit booze, yes; gambling, yes; even drugs would be feasible.

But a hodgepodge of casually nefarious activity is not going to be lucrative enough to keep dozens of grown men engaged. It’s not worth it.

One of the things people lose sight of on these boards is that all these people care about is money. Period. So if we don’t understand the Outfit from a business perspective, which no one really seems to these days, we flat-out don’t understand it.

If arrests were the only barametor used to determine viability than the Colombo and Gambino' s would be considered possibly defunct.

We haven't seen a big pinch in either family in about 7 years..
And the same with the decav and we can keep.going...

The real reason is the amount of resources expended on LCN.

Back in the 1980's when Regan took office he authorized the hire of 1000 additional FIB agents to target LCN,

Now there are less than 50
You see the difference?

The feds spent 100,000,000 MILLION just to get Gotti.

The other thing is by design.

LCN was always supposes be a secret society

There never should have been social clubs where all known member should associate and do illegal business.

The plan is to make them think they no longer exist so they don't come after them as hard.
..
As a whole crews are more independent these days again by design.

So if someone flips the exoposure is limited to that one crew not the whole.heirchary or other crews.

No more social clubs, so it's harder to be identified.
No more murders brings too much heat.

Shouldn't be having X-man parties as you see from the Bonnano's and Merlino they Jammed up at the parties.

Besides that most have pretty solid legit businesses so they are snot taking the risks like they used to.

So you see collectively you are not seeing the amount of arrests, indictments, guys flipping etc...

Panozzo got the info from a street org which meant there wasn't going to be repercussion ( I don't recall it being Cartel stashhouses).

Who was the Black dealer and which neighborhoods he was from ? What happened during their business to get whacked?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/chicago...st-to-have-a-happy-holiday-feds-say/amp/

https://aboutthemafia.com/chicago-mafia-soldier-charles-russell-busted-in-undercover-sting

It doesn't exactly say which neighborhood.

This could explain the “Southern Italian OC principles” mentioned in Johnson’s article.



This is extremely interesting. I read on this very site a few years ago that Northwestern communities of Chicago we’re experiencing a new influx of Sicilian immigrants post 9/11.
As for the allegations of zips being imported from the old country, could you kindly provide a link, article or even just the name of that investigator? I speak Italian so I can understand it and translate for the sake of the forums. Thanks.

Interesting story (a bit long) for those interested in the social changes of traditionally mobbed-up Italian neighborhoods in Chicago:

Tracking The Ties That Bind
By Alfred Lubrano

“Fred Gardaphé ’76 knew that if he didn’t get out of the Mafia-dominated neighborhood where he grew up, he could wind up dead.”

https://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/features/tracking-the-ties-that-bind/

Is this guy legit? Was his family mobbed up as implied in the article?

Back in 2011 Joe Fosco said that the largest grocery chains in the history of Chicago was about to bankrupt because of Outfit associates who allegedly infiltrated the industry. And so in 2017, the Central Grocers Inc., a wholesaler which supplied over 400 independent grocery stores all around the Chicago area and with over 500 employees, filed for bankruptcy after being in business for exactly 100 years. This story was also backed by some individual who worked for Teamsters Local 703, which represented about 300 workers at Central Grocer’s warehouse in the Joliet area. You see, the union tried to stop the company from selling its business by filling a federal lawsuit on April 27, 2017, just to block the whole process. But only seven days later, out of nowhere, the union suddenly withdraw the lawsuit, since they allegedly received some information regarding potential transactions or in other words, they withdraw everything because of “certain confidential information”.

Also back in 2012, Daddano Jr.’s previous partner and the late Ben Stein’s protégé Richard Simon was the owner of a cleaning company known as the United Maintenance Co. and with the help of Mayor Rahm Emanuel, the company was awarded a $99.4 million O’Hare Airport janitorial contract. The United offices were based in the same South Loop building where the previous garbage hauling firm used to have its location. After that, Daddano Jr.’s name popped up in every news article around the country and so many union airport workers were holding a prayer vigil outside the Mayor’s house, while asking him to reconsider the decision to hand custodial work at O’Hare International Airport to a new company. But nothing ever changed and the decision remained. According to 2014 investigative report, Daddano Jr. through his sister’s name Mary, who spells her last name “Daddono”, still acquired all kinds of contracts in different places around the Melrose Park area, some regularly, and some probably with the help of corruption.

They are still muscling shop owners.....I know someone who got muscled in the past two years by none other than AV

An italian poster at the old real deal forum had the report quoted some of the stuff, but unfortunately I can't find it online.

In the mafia, they’re all replaceable. If a leader is taken out, somebody moves in to continue the operation.

@toodoped

People find it hard to believe the level of corruption that still goes on in chicago. And to their defense, the shit is unbelievable how fucked up northeastern Illinois is

Everything I have read and seen, I think there are more than 28 members. But let’s remember, the outfit especially leans on associates more than most other crime families do. So it wouldn’t surprise me if they had upwards of 50 members and hundreds of associates. The FBI is still actively investigating them and per news reports are trying to come up with more cases against them in the near future. I think they like most other mafia families around the country have stabilized over the last 10 years or so. They will never be what they were prior to the Rico law being enforced but for sure in Chicago they are still there and a shadowy force behind crime there. They more so than any gang in Chicago bridge the gap between the upperworld and the underworld.

Their member count is probably like one of the smaller five families (probably a bit less) but their associates are probably between one of the smaller new York families and the larger new York families.

Muscled with what. They haven’t killed someone in 20 years. “Pay up, sir. Sir, I mean it — pay up.”

Would anyone even be frightened at this point?

I honestly think the idea of a gangster trying to muscle me in 2018 would make me laugh. It’s like a black friend I have who always jokes about getting “beaten up” by a Mexican gang.

Are you joking? Do you know how many beatings and other violent acts have been reported even in the last ten years? Paul Carparelli sending guys to beat up debtors, Panozzo robbin the cartel drug houses and cutting that guys ear off with the katana or samurai sword or whatever. And the last mob murder wasnt 20 years ago, it was Anthony Zizzo in 2006, still a while ago but alot less than 20 years. Thats inter family violence, outside the family they kill outsiders, like Chuckie Russell killing the black drug dealer and dumping his body in a bad neighborhood to make it look like it was gangs, that was only a couple of years ago. Who knows how many times something like that has happened. This is just stuff thats been reported in the media, who knows how many debtors have taken a beating but they dont rat. Considering this is the year 2018, theres RICO, video cameras everywhere, ect, still alot of violence in the outfit.

There was a time when Italians dominated the streets. That time has long passed.

Valuable businesses, gambling, extortion, and anything of value are still under their control for the most part. Drug dens and public housing blocks in low income areas, no, but who wants those really? The difference is that before, italians used to live in alot of blue collar neighborhoods, so they had control of valuable assets, as well as a big prescence on the street in terms of italian gangs, tough guys, ect. Now most live in the suburbs so that blue collar element has been reduced quite abit. It can still be found to an extent though.

How does anyone know for sure the Black racketeer was a dealer?

I completely agree buddy and to tell you the truth the Outfit and old time Mob are partially responsible for todays deeply infiltrated corruption which is almost unnoticed by the general public and law enforcement.

It seems that most of the top guys from the 90s onward really infiltrated the legit biz and reached the so-called Corleone dream. There are probably some guys still involved in blue collar crime but the top admin is or was obviously semi-legit

Look at Palermo murders are very rare nowadays and violence in general is at an all time low, but no one says Cosa Nostra is gone. In fact the mob has become more dangerous when they are really underground.

This is a 2016 Outfit chart by Mukremin.I tried to do a mine chart.Non bite me to the throat.

Boss:Salvatore DeLaurentis
Underboss:Salvatore "Sammy Cards"Cataudella
Consigliere:Marco D'Amico

Capos:
Frank Caruso (26th Street)
Peter DiFronzo (Elmwood Park)
James Inendino (Cicero)
Albert "The Falcon" Vena (Grand Avenue)

Members/Associates


1. Robert "Bobby the Boxer" Abbinati
2. Andriacci-Joseph The Builder 1932
3. Begenie-Phillip
4. Bellavia-Robert Gasbeet 1939
5. Berretoni-Anthony Dago Tony 1931 Chic, Hgts.
6. Bonavolante-Joseph 1957
7. Bruscato-Frank 1928
8. Joseph Calato
9. Carioscia-Michael 1933
10. Carparelli-Paul 1969
11. Bruno Caruso
12. Leo Caruso
13. Michael Caracci
14. Cataudella-Nicholas 1959
15. Cecola-Salvatore 1945 L.V.
16. Cimino-Virgil 1943
17. Culotta-Joseph Joe Kong
18. Anthony Dote
19. Daddano-William Jnr 1935
20. DeRosa-Frank 1943
21. Robert Dominic
22. Joseph DiFronzo
23. Esposito-Anthony
24. Nicholas Ferriola
25. Rudolph Fratto
26. Filippino-Rocco
27. Forliano-Thomas 1949
28. Gagliano-Gary 1943
29. Giannone-Anthony
30. Guzzino-Nicholas 1942 Chicago Heights
31. Guzzino-Richard 1939
32. Ignoffo-Roland 1949
33. LaValley-James 1944-
34. Lombardi-Joseph Pretty Boy 1936
35. Lombardo-Joseph 1929 (I)
36. Lombardo-Rocco 1940 L.V.
37. Magnifichi-Michael 1962
38. Malmento-Michael 1931
39. Manno-Pat Jnr. 1933
40. Marcello-James Jimmy the Man 1942 (I)
41. Marcello-Michael 1950
42. Dino Marino
43. Marino-Louis 1932
44. Matassa-John Jnr. Pudgy 1951
45. Panno-Frank 1933
46. Lawrence Pettit
47. Rizzola-Rick L.V.
48. Rosetti-Al
49. Salerno-Robert 1935
50. Scalise-Donald 1938
51. Scalise-Joseph Jerry 1937
52. Scalise-Terry 1956
53. Spano-Michael 1940 Cicero
54. Paul Spano
55. Anthony Spina
56. Spina-Christopher Nose 1953
57. Spirrizzi-John
58. Spirrizzi-Richard
59. Talerico-Joseph 1955
60. Talerico-Michael 1952
61. Tominello-Raymond 1940

Imprisoned members

James Marcello (L)
Joseph "The Clown" Lombardo (L)
Robert Salerno (11/21/2024)
Joseph Scalise (05/28/2019)
Michael "Far Mike" Sarno (10/25/2032)
Robert "Bobby Pinocchio" Panozzo (???)

Mafia murders are down, yes, but acts of mob violence and, most importantly, indictments never stopped. Palermo’s families are hit by the law quite frequently. Even with smaller cases resulting in short sentences. Not every investigation ends with massive trials and nation-shaking scandals but it’s a sign of constant mob activity.



If this is true, then it doesn’t really paint them as well structured at all.

Why would such an alleged high-ranking member be directly involved in a shakedown?

It reminds me of NJ boss Guarraci personally shaking down a pizza joint or the D’Anna brothers attacking a rival restaurant’s owner on their own and in the middle of the day.

It’s a sign of extreme decadence.

I wonder if d'amico is retired, he has to be in his 80's now

Joey Doves looks like he could have been related to Woody Harrelson.

I just finished reading Family Secrets and Frank Jr talks about how in Chicago they never brought their kids into the life like in NY or the other families out east. Frank Jr being an exception to the rule. So, that’s a good strategy from a blood family perspective but obviously has led to a lot of attrition in the Outfit family.

To me it’s more that Italians moved out of the city and have better things to than join the mob. Virtually every notable gangster started as an inner city juvenile delinquent. By the time they were teenagers they were some nasty little SOBs with one leg in.

Even the neighborhoods that anyone today would identify as “Italian” like the one in the article above, which is probably like 20% Italian anyway, those kids are on PlayStations and could go to college easy if they wanted to, unlike their grandfathers. There aren’t wild groups of Italian kids running around the Chicago suburbs like there was in some neighborhoods in the city 50 or realistically more like 75 years ago.

If you tried to talk to a 16 year old today about joining the mob he would probably think you were an idiot and look back at his phone.

Like the Bosas. Tony Accardo's grandsons. They've assimilated into mainstream American life. They sound like idiot surfers. And I'm pretty sure that's what old grandad wanted. He didn't want that life for them.

I have a question.

Were guys like Harry Aleman considered on par with "made" members of the Outfit? There were so many non-Italian operatives in the Outfit it's insane.

Aleman had considerable respect, thats what I interpreted. He was half Italian on his mothers side. And thats true oak. Its not like the old days where that was the mainstream. However, there are always those kids that like to get in trouble and look up to some of their relatives or neighborhood guys. Its not very common, but theres enough of them to keep it going, especially in the bigger cities.

His uncle was Joe Ferriola and I think he was effectively raised by another prominent gangster, if I remember correctly. He was a half Italian gangster from Taylor Street whose uncle was Feriola so I imagine he was as feared and respected as anyone.

he's about to have two great grandchildren playing in the nfl(Joey and Nick Bosa).

There is another Hired Truck Scandal-type investigation that will blow the Outfit open again on the horizon. They are more about bid-rigging these days than much else. They still control a lot of schemes and right now you have two Outfit crews fighting over the movie studio production in Chicago. The Ferriola-Crew backed Studio City (John Credidio's son owns and employees Dino Marino, the Inendino boys along with a host of others) vs. Cinnespace, which is run by Alex Pessios and has the daughter of James Banks in the #2 seat and is said to be also controlled by John Matassa. They are fighting in a public way - news articles, lawsuits, etc. then you have John Coli being indicted for extortion and see how the labor rackets are still controlled.

This was an Outfit indictment blatantly in 2017 - the word "Outfit" just is not used:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...inespace-studios-met-20170817-story.html

John Coli's father was Eco "James" Coli who was a prime lieutenant for Aiuppa, Glimco and a host of other bosses.

I also believe the Outfit is similar to Camorra - and not just bc Campagna/Capone/Ricca and early founders were all Neopolitan. They literally intermarry at every turn and the kids control the businesses their fathers built on blood - they still are involved in illeagal activity - just not nearly as blatant as it once was.

Thank you all for your inputs.

Does anyone have any recent image of Vena?

What’s Nicholas Cataudella’s status?

I know this image is not that clear, anyone knows who the second guy from the left is? One caption on Pinterest listed him as Frank Damato.

How much of these legit jobs are front operations? Because they could be legit gigs completely unrelated to illegal activities. This grey area is what makes the Outfit hard to tackle. This being said, I believe that most of them are not mobbed up.

I assume you mean from the viewer’s left. We all know who second from the left is from the subjects vantage point.

Regarding the post below, the people who have an interest in making it seem like the Outfit is thriving comple every single vaguely related crime committed by anyone who ever knew or was distantly related to anyone. Similarly they come up with enormous lists of every single tangentially related person however spuriously connected to a former Outfit associate who is in a union, city job, etc., and advance it as evidence they are still exerting control over these unions et al.

Obviously there is no real way to know. Everyone knows what I think. But you can’t disprove an unknown, so it will likely continue like this indefinitely.

Here’s what Aleman had to say before he died.

But he adds that the increasing number of mob informants is one of the reasons "no new people [are] coming into the mob.

"The reporters and newspapers have to keep it alive, but there ain't nothing in Chicago, no street tax, no extortion, no nothing," Aleman says. "There might be some old guys languishing around, but it's moot.

"The younger generation doesn't want no part of the mob; it's over." Aleman adds that young men would rather go to college and not take a risk they'd end up like him.

"There's no dice games, no card games, no bookmaking, if there's any bookmaking, it's just with the Jewish people on the North Side," he says, adding that even if that's happening, there's no street tax on the money changing hands.

"There's nobody who wants to do the job; this isn't the '30s or '40s," he recalls. "Is there a mob running over, putting people in trunks? . . . No, nobody wants to be part of it because of the feds. ... And these guys don't want to go to no jail like Harry.

"Whoever they locked up recently, they locked them up for their past performance, because they haven't been doing anything for the past 10 or 15 years."

Harry Aleman said this?

You assumed correctly.

So, Frank Damato. Is that his real name or it’s a “Paulie ‘Stripes’ DeMarco” situation where some outfit fanboy made it up to make crime buffs go crazy?

The Chicago metropolitan area has nearly 10 million people, no way the feds know everything that is going on.

Yes in an interview shortly before he died. Just google "Harry Aleman interview" and it will come up.

Now, obviously he is a gangster. It's not like he is beyond lying LOL. In the same interview he denies killing anyone and refuses to talk about certain living people. But I think it's an interesting quote.

It's also worth pointing out Aleman could have meant in relation to the mob when he was participating. ie, if the Outfit is at 10-20% of where it was when he was in prime, to someone like him, it might mean it's essentially over for all practical purposes.

While I tend to think it's almost over and could potentially be completely over, it's certainly not unreasonable to think that Cicero, Grand Ave. and Chinatown still have some stuff going on.

Back in the American News Post days there was some really good posts on structure. The conventional wisdom there was that Elmwood Park was definitely gone.

But didn't a guy got locked up a few years ago that was a active member of elmpark???

Elmwood park inactive? I dont believe that. Elmwood park and neighboring Melrose park are traditional mob hotbeds, ive heard from guys with reputable knowledge on gangs in chicago that they are active. One that lives in elmwood was asked what set or gang were people repping in elmwood park, and he said the outfit is still dominant there and very little gang crime occurs. Im gonna see if i can fin that video and link it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbInwbbDuZw

Here. Hes some young guy and who knows if he actually knows, but its an interesting opinion from someone who appears to know about criminal stuff in chicago, especially in his own neighborhood.

You can scroll the ANP forums. There was like a year where some really knowledgeable guys went deep into structure with Fosco.

That is basically as far as I know how it got into the public consciousness that Cicero was calling the shots, through those threads. Those same threads concluded that Elmwood Park was done.

I obviously don’t know but the logic advanced and knowledge on the topic was the best I’ve ever seen.

Its very possible that Cicero is calling the shots, (although with Vena and all that, Grand ave could be competing). I just highly doubt that Elmwood park is done as a crew. Sure, its a more mixed neighborhood now, but i have a couple of buddies that are italians that live there, and its an old school neighborhood from what i understand, relatively safe compared to other parts of older chicago. Neighboring Melrose park still has alot of italians and italian businesses too.

Yeah they just mean from a mob crew perspective. The north side crew was absorbed into Grand Ave. at some point. According to the conventional wisdom at ANP the Elmwood Park was shuttered.

The Outfit now consists of Cicero calling the shots with Grand Ave. and Chinatown still active.

There are some problems with that theory, such as that Grand Ave is primarily populated by yuppies and Bridgeport is probably less than 30% white these days, but they just mean the ways the crews are organized.

As an Irishman I don’t know and will never know for sure!

I didn’t listen to the whole thing but I wouldn’t put much stock in what this person says.

* Chicago never made non-Italians; it’s a matter of debate when “making” became a thing here, but the CW is if I remember right is the 60s. It wasn’t really regarded as a good thing, more like giving you a title at work and more responsibility without more money

* I don’t think most people think Accardo was the most powerful boss ever. The argument for that position would be Gus Russo’s book The Outfit. It uses a lot of horrible sources. He might have been but I think people who really know the mob would always tell you at least two of the NYC families were always bigger.

* DiFronzo didn’t live in Elmwood Park; he lived in River Grove. I never, ever, heard anyone express the belief he was a billionaire

* His nose didn’t get cut breaking into a factory, it got cut breaking into a fur coat store on Michigan Avenue

* Multiple reporters didn’t accost DiFronzo outside his breakfast spot. Chuck Goudie did, once.

Those are just a few things I caught listening to the video for a few minutes.

I agree, he doesn't have his facts straight. Lots of errors. I just find it interesting that he says that Elmwood park is still mob run, considering he's more into gangs and stuff. Maybe this is due to rumors and speculation he sees and hears in the neighborhood since he lives there, who knows.

If what you’re suggesting is correct it’d show how demographics are often overestimated. Cicero is largely Mexican, while Elmwood is around 25% Italian.

harry aleman is not a turncoat everything he claims is not valid

Do you think with the proximities of Canada and especially of Ontario where the Ndrangheta is very well implanted they could replace the Outfit or the Detroit Family in some time?
Does Ndrangheta have a presence on the American border in Illinois, Michigan ...

ndrangheta in ontario is overrated

When I say people think Elmwood Park is shuttered it just means the Elmwood Park branch of the Outfit. The branches are just identified by physical geography, which, yes at least at one point coincided with actual physical territory, but certainly does far less now as whatever they’re doing is far less reliant on street crime than, say, 60 years ago.

Elmwood Park was the more old-school, Godfather-type faction where the leadership was based. DiFronzo, D’Amico, etc. The heirs to Giancana, Accardo and Cerone.

I can’t compleyely remember but I think the belief was that at one point DiFronzo just called it a day. Why? Because he made the decision that he was not going to spend his golden years in prison.

Even if it’s true it doesn’t mean that gangster type activity doesn’t take place there. I think Rudy Fratto was part of that crew and he’s always still in trouble, though I think some people think he’s basically a BS-er.

Many accounts say that Sam Giancana thought making ceremonies were stupid, and didn't care who was made. If you could make money and keep your mouth shut, you were on his level as far as he was concerned.

What about Pete DiFronzo, the Cassano brothers and all those guys?

The theory was that the whole thing had just been closed. If you're interested you can go to ANP and read the threads...there are literally books and books full of them.

Pete DiFronzo is 85 years old.

I wouldn't say they are overrated. On a national level, I would say they have more power than most lcn families. Although on the local level, I would say the bigger families have more control and interests simply because they have more manpower.

Crazy talk.

They don’t have enough men, nor willingness, to run a serious organization locally.

How do you expect them to be a top-tier entity nationally?

Ndrangheta got guys all over Canada, that's easy to find information.

I thought you were talking about the Outfit.

Na i was responding to mw2 saying that the Ontario ndrangheta is overrated. But on a side note, it's safe to assume that the outfit still does have interests in other states than Illinois. Indiana, and Wisconsin being two close ones, and possibly other, farther ones.

For what it’s worth, Joe Fosco estimated there were 40-50 made guys in the Outfit circa 2012.

This has been discussed extensively on these boards. The takeaway is that at least half of those who can be identified, e.g. reconciled with the FBI’s older list of 28, are now tilting toward the deep side of geriatric.

Anyway, as far as I know that is the most relevant and probably unbiased guesstimate made in recent years, since the FBI is keeping quiet.

This is n old chart but very well done.If you erase the dead members,can easly had a stime of the Outfit members numerber.

sicilian mafia is stronger than ndrangheta in canada, that's what i mean, ndrangheta is not so strong as they claim and it has not any role in montreal war and probably even in ontario war

M2w, I do not prefer the ndrangheta to verify the sicilian mafia or anything, but I am curious to what makes you believe that the sicilians are more powerful? They definitely were during Vito Rizzuto's reign, but now the ndrangheta as a whole is bigger than the sicilians as a whole in Canada.

the fact that ndrangheta is currently the strongest italian oc group it doesnt mean that it is stronger everywhere, in canasa and usa sicilian mafia is stronger, there is not any valid proof it's involved in montreal war, probably not even present in montreal, although they claimed it since the beginning and even in ontario is not dominant in my opinion
ndrangheta is stronger in north italy, germany, australia and other places, but not north america

I lived in Woodbridge (Toronto suburb) for most of life, and it's almost all Calabrese guys there with the social clubs and gambling in non descript industrial areas, ect. Sicilians have a small presence but not as much as Calabrese. Montreal is different. However all of Ontario is influenced by ndrangheta, like even thunder Bay and places up north have people there. All these guys are interelated, they don't rat, and they are very tight knit. I don't know how you can say sicilians are dominant in Ontario, what sicilians are you talking about? You can DM me if you want to say names there.

Sicilian mafia have bigger presence in Canada,but 'Ndrangheta is more powerful. 'Ndrangheta is dominant group in South America, that means unending supply of cocaine to their canadian friends

i don't think so sicilian mafia is strongly connected with politicians, businessmen etc. it is not only larger but more powerful too, that's my opinion anyway, i could be wrong of course
being more connected with cartels it doesn't mean always to be more powerful, there are several groups importing cocaine in canada, including sicilians, not only ndrangheta

Talking about Sicilians, does anyone know if the Outfit has ever had some sort of a “zip” crew like some crime families back east? I know that Detroit allegedly has had a tiny Sicilian faction.

By going through the chart posted by Furio, I see a lot of guys with Italian first & last names. Now I’m well aware that Italian-American are quite traditional, so it’s not uncommon to meet a 4th generation Italian with an Italian first name, but this had me wondering.

Also, who is Vincenzo Ercolino the chart allegeds as the “Italian operative”?

I know that the Northwestern suburbs have had a constant flow of Italian immigrants (mostly Sicilians) in the last twenty years...

EDIT:
On a side note: What are the chances that non-Outfit affiliated Italian criminal crews have been operating around Chicagoland? We know this is happening all around North America. Why not Chicago?

At the beginning the Outfit was formed with the unification of a dozen Italian and non-Italian gangs or mobs and one of them was the Sicilian Mafia. Since they had more than one conflict with the Caponites, still the whole situation was stabilized forever when Ross Prio became the boss of the so-called semi-Sicilian faction or whats left of them aka the North Side Mob.

In addition, besides not being official CN members, still during the old days some non-Italians had the same stature in the Outfit as the ones who were made within the national CN organization

^ Thanks for the info. Are you aware of anything going on post-Priolo? From the 80’s onward? Within the Outfit or unaffiliated.
Hard to believe that Sicilians never set a flag in such a major urban center like Chicago during the Pizza-connection era and beyond. Same thing applies to the rest of Italian OC groups.

@ Furio - nice chart. If this is remotely accurate it would make them larger than Philly. Which is highly unlikely.

I have a hard time to believe that all these people (sources?) are part of a cohesive organization. I stick to my guts, whatever is going on today is scattered in semi-independent crews.

I can’t find the time to check the comment sections on Joe Fosco’s blog. Hopefully it would shed some light on their current organizational shape.

It seems that that post Prio, the only thing which connected the Outfit and the Sicilians or zips from the east coast was narcotics, and possibly the car theft business. But the problem was that from the 1970s onward dope dealing was strongly forbidden by the Outfit's top admin (mostly by Accardo, Alex, Cerone and Aiuppa, not by the whole organization) and story goes that even Galante visited Chicago regarding the problem and a deal was made that none of the Sicilians can stay in Chicago or deal with their members, but instead they were allowed to sell their product through other non-Outfit criminals and also to establish themselves in other cities around Illinois. The problem was that some Outfit associates and even members were still getting involved, which additionally brought to the number of the Outfit related murders during the 70s that went over 100. Later the lower level members were mostly involved with the Cubans, Colombians and African-Americans so there was not much space for the Sicilians from the east coast and the so-called pizza connection was over by then. Also, many Outfit associates were using pizza shops for dope dealing since the early 50s.

In addition, Galante was in Chicago since the 50s or before going to prison, and already established a narcotics ring in the same city with the help of different Sicilian or non-Sicilian groups which were under the auspices of the Outfit. Dont forget that Accardo was the first Sicilian boss of the Outfit or the Capone Mob and he came from the Northwest Side and W Grand Av area, an old territory for names such as Lolordo, Provenzano or Loverde but it seems that neither Accardo, nor his buddies, were ever related to that hardcore Sicilian thing, instead they cooperated with everyone who was making cash and was loyal to the Capone Mob. As a matter of fact, Sicilians such as Accardo or Giancana who were born in the states were the main problem for the hardcore Sicilians in taking over the second largest city at the time.

There are a ton of Sicilians in Addison and Bloomingdale and a lot of gambling going on - whether or not they are under the Outfit is probably debatable. Two older articles from the 90s, but these were the Outfit's Zips focused on drug sales and gambling at clubs in Addison and I think its kind of coincidental the last names of these Sicilians are "fratto" and "infelice" :

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-02-18-9402200179-story.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-07-11-9807110155-story.html

Thanks for the info buddy