Funny Nicky, you start your one post with "My problem with you isnt that you have your own opinions," as if anyone cares if you would have an internet blog problem with someone. But in following suit with your method...MY problem with you is that what people say on this blog doesnt need constant rebuttals and accusations of lying, because you cite DAs theories from 10 years ago and articles that are from supposed reliable journalists, because we know all journalists are reliable. NOT....Also you said fair enough when I stated lets see what happens with the Violi trial but you cant let go. You are the one who sounds desperate at this point and hell bent on trying to tell us that the family is extinct/defunct. As if you know anything other than what you read in internet articles. And yes, if you read the thread, Im from Buffalo, originally from Ft. Wayne.

Nicky, how do all the posters on the 5 families have all this inside information about members and nothing they say can be verified through articles or busts?

Rooster,

I guess the consensus is that if something is written
It is accepted as truth by the board.

The articles all say they are done meaning they aren't what they used to be.
Buffalo was 200 strong.

Them being done would be down to a crew or two.

I think the disconnect is:

Is with whatever is left
Nicky, is saying there is no formal structure

It's just the leftovers basically operating on there own.

At a crew or two is there a need for a boss, underboss, counselor and capos?


Which is all speculation I believe

Unless you are going to tell me you spoke to the guys that are left about the structure and they told you what it was??

I understand they are not the almighty power they use to be.

I disagree, based on my understanding and talks within my circles that the family does have a hierarchy though. More of a ruling panel, (as I stated in my 2016 posts) top tier guys who have underlings and that there really arent any capos. The identifiers for the family are loose, similar to how Canada and Chicago have associates who hold power but no quote on quote made status. From what I have heard, tribute is paid, union corruption is still existent, gambling and shy are still big sources of money, the connection to Canada is as strong as its been in 20 years, I heard that many of them (that were able) came to both Falzones and Nicolettis funerals. What the mafia is today across every American city is different than what it use to be and per that reasoning and understanding of the evolution of the Mafia I think Buffalo is to still be considered an active family.


Also, from what I have heard, they are still under surveillance and local law enforcement still keeps tabs on them. Whether they, who are connected to a lot of these guys through family and friendships can build a case that shows RICO predicates us another matter altogether.

I have not spoken with any of the top tier guys lol. And even if I did, they could lie to whoever they want one way or another, and that includes to law enforcement, lawyers, investigators and journalists alike.

If you don't care about internet posters opinions why are you on this forum? It's always the mark of a bad poster when their biggest response is "no one cares about your opinion."


I cited over five prominent LE sources from May last year, for Chrissakes. Read what I have cited. If you can't even do basic research from what I have linked in this thread then I don't know what to say.
Also you can laugh off my articles all you want, but at least I can cite SOMETHING. I have not stated any facts that are not backed up. You, meanwhile, have zero evidence to support your theory and plenty of evidence against it.


If your drunk city cops that you chat up in bars know so much about the so-called Todaro crime family, and everyone in the community supposedly knows about the Todaro crime family, then tell them to talk to the Buffalo News, DAs, federal prosecutors and the FBI because, according to your theory, everyone in Buffalo knows about the Buffalo mafia about from law enforcement, prosecutors and news reporters. Go figure

If I point out huge holes in your theory, perhaps you should address them and explain them instead of cutting me off by saying "no one cares what you have to say." Considering there's eight pages in this thread, it seems that you've cared about my opinion until now. What caused the change of heart? Also can you speak for Bensonhurst, Moscone, and all the others who have discussed this on the thread?

Ok I believe you I do not think Nick, does.

It all.makes sense to me.

I personally have a hard time believing that someone would come o her and make stuff up.

1) Eventually the truth will come out
2) Who the he'll has the time to do that.

With stuff like this time will tell.

It would.help if you could get a copy of Canada's version of the indictment that should have a story of his activities.

L.E. I believe stated they were internationally connected drug dealers.
If Violi is from Buffalo and he is internationally connected drug dealer

You think you could get a could get a copy of the charges.against them?

Half the young people in the italian community in Toronto don't know that the mob still exists, let alone the non Italian community. And alot of stuff goes on here. All they care about is rappers and things like that. Imagine how much people would possibly know about a smaller, low key buffalo family, In a city like buffalo, which is smaller and overshadowed by nearby Toronto and NYC.

Like I said 100x before and answered all your questions time and time again. What questions havent I answered of yours yet?

And not caring about what another blogger says is based on the accusation of me lying, which is incorrect. To believe or not to believe is every bloggers choice. But your interpretation is just that, an interpretation

So you dont think that there are corrupt cops in every city in America? You think there is no such thing as inside information and you believe that law enforcement and journalists always get the story 100% accurate? You believe the current members have no underlings and dont give orders and plan and execute scams alongside other organized criminals. You think that no young Italian Americans would ever be willing to join an organization, yet EVERY other generation across the world has done so for generations. No one is willing to kick up tribute in Buffalo, there is no book ran by any members, no shy, no fraud, no union corruption when the whole union is run by connected guys still?

Its going to take another bust that is within the Buffalo city limits for you to believe they are viable, I get that, but for me, its just not the case.

People have been lying and pretending they have inside knowledge since the beginning of Mafia threads. It goes on a lot. I don't know why people do it, but trolls are active in just about every Mafia forum, with varying degrees of sophistication.
What about Rooster makes his word, and his word alone, believeable? Because he's from the area? That's it? If he addresses the big problems with his story, that would go a long way for him to be more believable.



The Violis father was a Bonanno-Montreal capo, and they are from Montreal. After their father was shot up when the boys were 8 and 11 years old, they moved to Hamilton and rose in the underworld. They were close to their Buffalo crime family member grandfather, Giacomo Luppino. The Violis are reportedly rooted in the Bonanno crime family, not the Todaro crime family.

I do not have a copy of the indictment, and I do not know who the Todaro members charged are.

Well lets all put two and two together then, imagine that Carfagna is probably one of them

And we can easily say you are a troll for believing everything you read to be gospel

How is it that posters about NYC have a bunch of inside information?

This coming from the guy who believe Localzo to be the boss of a family that cease to exist for 30 years

Ive spoke my opinion, this thread is just the same argument over and over. And, it also goes back to put it onto the Buffalo thread that your over two years late on joining, to merge with that one. I appreciate everyones input.

Like you said bud, he won't believe anything about Buffalo till an indictment, and even then maybe he will say that there's no structure, it's just loose remenants like KC, ect unpess they specifically mention ranks and all that.El Everyone thinks differently i suppose.

Wasn't a cop just indicted for running plates

Moscone you are from Buffalo as Well?

Are you seeing similar activity that Rooster is?

Paolo Violi was with Buffalo and Luppino before he moved to Montreal in 1963 as ordered to avoid John Papalia and Paul Volpe. He killed Natale Brigante on Stefano Magaddino and Giacomo Luppino orders. The Cotronis took him into their ranks and he served as a spy for Buffalo and Luppino to keep tabs on the Montreal crew and information on Stefano Magaddino cousin Joe Bonanno movements in his family. Bonanno was expanding rapidly since the mid 1950's, and Magaddino had Gaspar DiGregorio in New York keep tabs on Bonanno, but Magaddino was pretty much in the dark at what the Bonannos were up to in Montreal since John Papalia moved to Hamilton from Montreal. It's funny, that you can trace John Papalia and Paolo Violi to the Magaddino crime family when they started out. John Papalia from 1940's, and Paolo Violi from the 1950's. The Papalia and Violi families have roots to both Bonanno and Buffalo crime families.

I just came across the other Buffalo Thread

Giacomo why do these guys have it out for you???

First question: Which busts were in 2005, 2010, and 2012?
For a 2010 bust, you cited the arrest of a former associate, Cohen, although there is simply zero evidence that the crimes committed were connected to any sort of OC or the Buffalo mafia.
Second question: What evidence do you have that Local 210 and Local 91 are still mobbed-up? You claimed that the union was never cleaned up fully cleaned up, but there is no evidence of that other than Ron Fino (who flipped in 1989) saying that the feds could have done more in terms of union control.
Third queston: I haven't asked this before, but you said James Feliciano was made in 2000, but he was indicted in Feb. 2000? Also, during that time, he lived in Brooklyn.
Fourth question: You said:
"Members are still under surveillance by BPD and NYS Police, Im not sure about the Feds but they are thought to be viable per local and state law enforecement's definition."
Why have numerous law enforcement officials (I have listed many) denied that the Buffalo mafia exists. They have no reason to do so and it could only hurt any future cases for them if they're lying. By the way, this includes Buffalo federal prosecutor Lee Coppola, Erie County DA Frank J. Clark and Buffalo FBI agent Andrew Goralski. You are saying that LE are conducting surveillance on mobsters. I have given you clear evidence that LE does not consider these guys to be still active.
Also, if LE are conducting surveillance on these guys (which it's clear they're not), why have there been no busts in over 15 years? This can't be compared to Chicago or Detroit, since there is usually a bust every few years for those families (more so for Chicago, less so for Detroit). Usually investigations are finished in less than five years, when a case is made. It's extremely rare a mob investigation lasts over a decade. Since you are claiming "LE is keeping tabs on these guys" we can assume there's multiple investigations. Yet no cases.
By the way, your initial answer to this question above was "You know nothing about Buffalo or know anyone from here" - True, but it's common knowledge that LE don't follow people and watch people for 15+ years without making a bust...
Fifth question:
You said that the existence of the mob in Buffalo is not a secret, and people know what they do. Then why would the area's two leading news stations consistently report, complete with backed up sources, that the family is defunct. Why would acclaimed mob experts and journalists be trying to cover up the existence of this family?
Sixth question:
You said that the articles I posted could be easily misinterpreted. How in the hell do you misinterpret: "The Mafia is all but dead in Western New York. So what killed it?" with comments in the article such as ""“Most of the men who were responsible for the mob murders in Buffalo are dead,” he said. “The hit men who committed the murders are dead." "And no young people have emerged to replace them, Coppola said."" and """Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader."""
There is no ambiguity in these statements and no room for misinterpretation. These articles I posted explicitly state the Mafia is dead in Buffalo and Western NY.
Seventh question:
You noted that "Cops here are friends with members, are involved in crime themselves and corrupt prone, just like everywhere else." It seems you are implying that corruption is a big factor in why these alleged mobsters aren't getting busted "just like everywhere else." Except "everywhere else" where there is an active mafia family or criminal enterprise, there are busts. If you are implying that corruption in Buffalo is so prevalent that busts are impossible, that is a wild statement. Of course, if you are implying something different then I apologise for the confusion. Any insight?


Of course I do. But not on such a scale that the corruption will mean there are no busts. You are saying that Buffalo is still a lot smaller than it once was, but that they are able to orchestrate city-wide corruption to prevent any cops or DAs making busts?


Of course LE and journalists might not get it 100% accurate. But you are implying that all of the area's local media outlets, and all top-ranking LE officials, are getting it 0% accurate. That is a big difference.


Perhaps some members managed to keep their rackets intact, and pass it on to a younger generation just like the Scagliones did in Tampa. But I don't think it is on behalf of a fully-fledged Mafia family where tribute is being kicked up and there is an admin in place keeping everyone in line.


Young Italian-Americans might be willing to join an OC organization, but I don't believe there is a Buffalo crime family/Todaro crime family that they are willing to join or that they are able to join because said family doesn't exist anymore.


So far from the truth. At the mob's peak, there were around 26 Mafia families in America. Now there are around 10. So when you say "EVERY other generation across the world has done so for generations" that is a simple, glaring misstatement.


Why would they willingly give up money to some old has-beens with no power or muscle behind them.


There may very well be. But not on behalf of a Buffalo crime family/Todaro crime family. Perhaps a small number of members maintained their rackets, but independently. Here's a nice quote by Ron Fino (whom who view as a credible source, right?) which sums it up.
“There are a few remnants of the mob that still exist in Buffalo,” said Ronald Fino, a former union leader who helped the FBI investigate the local mob, “but it’s not the same.”


Unlike the 1990s, there are no made members serving any sort of union position nowadays, and any subservient guys that worked on behalf of the mob are also not in the unions anymore. The unions were Buffalo mob-free by 2006.


There are a select handful of posters whose words have been backed up later on. For example, recently bronx has been proven right a couple times, as well as some other posters in the past. There are also some posters with alleged inside knowledge who have been disproven.


30 years? Where the hell did you get that from?
Also, do you remember how Billy D'Elia was the boss of the Bufalino crime family when he was arrested but feds admitted there was no organization under him? That's because he was the boss IN TITLE ALONE. He never officially stepped down as boss, because there was no reason to. He never "officially" retired from being boss. Neither did Vincent LoScalzo, unless (and I am speculating on this next part), he officially ceded the family to the Gambinos as has been alleged.
You know how, when a wiseguy is inducted, he is inducted for life? And even if he retires, or flips, he is still a made member? Even if the family goes extinct, that person is still a made member. The same can apply to being a boss. I have explained this to you before. How is it that hard to comprehend?
To clarify, the Trafficante crime family is defunct as an organization. Since Vincent LoScalzo was the last known boss, the feds could probably get away with calling him the boss, just like they did with Billy D'Elia.

I am just likable.

Giacomo,

Anyway to can directly answer Nicky's concerns bullet point.
1) _____________
2) _____________

I am pretty sure no one comes on here to argue.

I mean ate getting your info from somewhere
If it is from a book some of it, just disclose the book.

Or via any sort of research.

Why not just disclose???

I think everyone understands that if some is coming from a source you would rather not identify.

But you have a plethora of info you are going into major detail here.

I think if you would be able to put this to rest.

Are you asking me? Or Giacomo? Or Rooster?

Rooster?

I was asking Giacomo

Nick about Rooster

I have to go back and the read the specific post where he talks about
Todaro Jr and his son I think hi sname is Anthony and about the Pizza shop

And how he goes into detail about how the younger generation are vying for the sons friendship and attennition

Also, how there is a crew as he describes of young Italian males that all want to be apart of that life and culture.
Would those wanna-bee's kick up, YESS, to be a part of something bigger.....

I have to say that how it used to be locally around here you would have these crews back in the day they were called gangs we called thems crews.

I.E. the Bath Ave Boys (Bonnano), 20th Ave Boys (Columbo), Bay Parkway Boys (Columbo), Ave U Boys (Bonnano), 18th Ave (Bonnano,Lucheese), Ft. Hamilton Boys (Columbo), that was just Bensonhurst and Bath-Beach Brooklyn, and there were plenty more.

A lot of made guys came out those crews, that's how the older guys would groom them and teach them about the life.

Queens you had I forget the Young Guns and the Gianni Boys,
Bronx, Tangle Wood Boys

Etc

You had a made guy who was the leader of the crew/gang
That was the recruitment pool

What would happen you would have:

1) The made guy
2) Wanna bee's (Younger Generation)

The made guys had the money, power, respect and girls.

The wanna bee's would want all that

The wanna bee's would do just about anything to get the money, power and the girls...
Rob, Steal, Murder.... ETC

The only way he would know that would be to somewhat be a part of that or atleast be around that.

I am older now so I don't see much of that anymore locally however, I am sure it still exists to a much smaller degree.

That was the LCN recruitment pool for a very long time, not the only one, but is was very common one.

What I am saying is I think Rooster is legit
Atleast that part of what he is telling...

How else could he go into such detail about all that?

How does that back up his claim at all? No disrespect, but I really don't see your point.

Let's say there's a young crew/farm team under Anthony Todaro that runs around killing, robbing, stealing, etc. as you mentioned. If this crew, or crews like it all across Buffalo, have been going strong for over a decade, then it is practically impossible that they wouldn't get caught. The crews you mentioned in NY were, naturally, terrible at dodging the cops since they were a bunch of wannabe kids doing dumb, hardcore shit to prove themselves. Some of them might have been smarter than others, and gotten themselves made, but these crews usually tore themselves apart by getting caught really quickly, and flipping really quickly. A 21-year-old kid facing life for murder is going to crack under pressure.

The Bath Avenue Boys either got life in prison or flipped. Fabrizio the Herder was the only one who got himself made. When they flipped, they were able to take down Bonanno consigliere Anthony Spero.
20th Avenue Crew... think Joey Caves Competiello was part of that one right? Forgive me if I'm wrong. Anyways, he was made but later flipped.
Bay Parkway Boys... Tommy McLaughlin was a member of that crew, and he flipped.
Avenue U Boys had Frank Lino, who flipped even after he became a high-ranking Bonanno.
Tanglewood Boys all flipped or got life.
The boss and 27 Giannini Boys got hefty sentences, with boss Vito Guzzo pleading guilty to 5 murders.
Young Guns had a bunch of guys get life, including Ronnie.

You're telling me that wouldn't happen in Buffalo?


Also, I would like Rooster to reply to my post illustrating the full list of questions I have about his Buffalo theory.

The 5 New York City families naturally, Chicago, Philadelphia, New England, New Jersey, Detroit, and Buffalo. Those are still families in your definition.

Under those families the families that operates with just a Boss or should say has a Capo are Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Tampa.

Then there are families that still has members that do business with other families, but are no longer a family or even a crew. These are Los Angeles, Rockford, Cleveland and New Orleans.

Then there is the totally defunct or dead families such as San Jose, Denver, Dallas ect.

Tampa??? I would say that fits under your third category of "families that still have members that do business with other families but are no longer a family or even a crew." There is no viable crew there with a boss or capo.

I haven't heard anything about Milwaukee still active but I don't know enough about to comment. KC is supposedly still active on a very, very, very minor level according to Gangster Report.

Also, naturally I disagree on Buffalo but that's not news to you.

I am scratching my head, as those are not directed at me, but will answer the first question, and part of the second question.
2005? I think Rooster means 2006, when Buffalo associate and enforcer of L.A. Boys Clayton Green was arrested on drug charges. He is a force to reckon with, and the Painters Union is still mobbed up. Also caught up in the arrest was Bufalo hang around Jeremy Scott who was based in the Niagara Falls area. 2010, was when Brian Cohen an associate on record with Sonny was arrested on gambling charges and operating a wireroom. 2012? Michael Wilson who rubbed shoulders with members of Buffalo but I see no proof that Giglia or Tavano were involved. Rooster said that the cop arrested was good friends with Victor Sansanese.
Second answer, I can only speak on local 91, Niagara. There are a some people there with connections to the Nicolettis, and the Papalias. Local 210, don't know, as they really did kick a lot of people of the Buffalo family out.