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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Serpiente]
#918324
08/12/17 06:34 PM
08/12/17 06:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
Ted
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
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I don't get why someone in the administration does not have some type of electronics that can pick up bugs.
They can put bugs in watches, buttons and hats. There is no way these guys can detect wires with any certainty in this day and age. Why is it not handled like everyone is wearing a wire , if the Feds need recordings to convict why are these guys not doing security and all meetings.
Just ridiculous to me why sit in a jail for 30 years because of these rats sniff them out and take care of what you got to take care of .
Not just that it would make guys think more then twice if they walk in to a meeting and they are stripped and gone over electronically .
The Feds have rats in every family now !!!
That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but there is no way any criminal would be ok with being constantly checked for wires by their peers. You'd basically be showing disrespect every time you do it. Remember, criminal organizations are run as a brotherhood. You undermine that cohesion/unity when you are constantly checking each other for wires.
"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Ted]
#918327
08/12/17 07:25 PM
08/12/17 07:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but there is no way any criminal would be ok with being constantly checked for wires by their peers. You'd basically be showing disrespect every time you do it. Remember, criminal organizations are run as a brotherhood. You undermine that cohesion/unity when you are constantly checking each other for wires.
"Disrespect"....If that's the main reason they don't check for bugs and wires, then the Mafia has really become like Bloods and Crips etc by mentality (apart from the violence / "easy trigger" aspect). In that documentary series called Gangland, during interviews and interrogations, the word "disrespect" seemed to be in the center of their whole universe, I have lost count of times when their actions were motivated by "disrespect", not even power or money.... -Why did you kill him? -He disrespected me! And everything can be included in the concept of "disrespect", ranging from a "wrong glance" towards a member of another gang when you are crossing the "wrong" street, to serious things, like being cheated on millions of drug money. If the mafiosi are more obsessed with being disrespected than staying free, I don't even know what to say then.... But if I was one of them, I would have learned Italian, including local dialects from the provinces of Italy their ancestors came from. Seriously, if they didn't stop learning their original languages, instead of sticking to English only, they would be much harder to convict imo. If they talked in some semi-unknown dialect used maybe only in 1 part of some Sicilian province (the Sicilian isn't the same on the whole territory, there are variations of it, same goes for other regional dialects), then spoke it quickly, with a low voice and using coded language, with some allegories and comparisons and allusions that only their community knows, the FBI would spend all their resources on translators without having success nevertheless imo The fact they haven't gotten anything Italian in them anymore apart from last names, is a big mistake that guarantees weaknesses in the organization. If they don't allow non-Italians to be made, then they should have at least exploited the Italian aspect to the fullest. Really, the dialects (in the southern regions especially) are so different from official Italian (and between themselves too) that stopping to transmit them through generations, made things much easier for law enforcement. I speak Italian, but when I listened to John Stanfa talking on those tapes in a documentary, I understood less than I do if I hear speaking Spanish for example. So if they tried to complicate it on purpose and spoke dialects, partially in code and partially with signs (like when they pointed at the chin when referring to Gigante), it would me much harder to make the charges stick.
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 08/12/17 07:57 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Serpiente]
#918348
08/12/17 11:59 PM
08/12/17 11:59 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,371
Lou_Para
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,371
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I think if the focus went back to the old school mentality of assuming there was always a bug or tap,these guys would not be getting recorded.
In cases like Gotti,Castellano,Ruggerio,Avellino,etc,the reason the bugs were successful was not because the wiseguys didn't have the technology to detect them. The reason was that these guys never bothered to check because they assumed that the bugged locations were safe and beyond the reach of the FBI techies.
Therefore they talked freely. The bottom line has always been,assume that whatever you say is being recorded somehow,by somebody.
Take a guy like Carlo Gambino. He ran the most powerful Mafia Family in the country for many years, somehow managing to pass down orders,give and get information,and stay on top of thousands of little details. Yet, if you managed to plant a bug under his skin, you still wouldn't get enough to charge,or even indict him.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: pmac]
#918357
08/13/17 03:12 AM
08/13/17 03:12 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 385
BobbyPazzo
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 385
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You got a point with the whole disrespect angle. This whole luchese indictment is cause of it. Madonna thought meldish wasnt respectful they whacked him a few guys didnt show crea sr anuff they were almost killed other then that its a bullshit indictment with the regular mob shit gambling extortion. Gotta stop being so insecure like the profet kanye once said. My boy said like the prophet Kanye once said ! Bruh that literally had me laughing out loud!
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#918380
08/13/17 07:04 PM
08/13/17 07:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
Ted
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
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That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but there is no way any criminal would be ok with being constantly checked for wires by their peers. You'd basically be showing disrespect every time you do it. Remember, criminal organizations are run as a brotherhood. You undermine that cohesion/unity when you are constantly checking each other for wires.
"Disrespect"....If that's the main reason they don't check for bugs and wires, then the Mafia has really become like Bloods and Crips etc by mentality (apart from the violence / "easy trigger" aspect). In that documentary series called Gangland, during interviews and interrogations, the word "disrespect" seemed to be in the center of their whole universe, I have lost count of times when their actions were motivated by "disrespect", not even power or money.... -Why did you kill him? -He disrespected me! And everything can be included in the concept of "disrespect", ranging from a "wrong glance" towards a member of another gang when you are crossing the "wrong" street, to serious things, like being cheated on millions of drug money. Are you saying the Mafia hasn't murdered people over signs of disrespect?
"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Ted]
#918385
08/13/17 08:31 PM
08/13/17 08:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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Are you saying the Mafia hasn't murdered people over signs of disrespect? They did, I understand that, it's just that after watching all those episodes from the "Gangland" series, and hearing those street thugs (Bloods, Crips, Nortenos, Latin Kings, skinheads etc) using the word "disrespect" more than any other word (and in most cases really out of place), so when I hear criminals (even serious and big-time ones) talking about disrespect as motive for their actions, I always have an impulse to start laughing.... I know the mafia isn't funny, but from a certain point I can't help but associate the word "disrespect" with those low-level thugs from street gangs who jump in front of the cameras with faces covered by colored handkerchiefs, holding rolls of cash and shouting "Yeah, big money, man! No sh@t, don't f@ck with us! BOOM BOOM BOOM! "Sex, money, murder" forever!" and similar things After hearing the word "disrespect" being used so many countless times in similar occasions, I can't take the word seriously any more, at least not in a criminal context, although I realize it wouldn't be funny at all, to meet one of those guys in real life...
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 08/13/17 11:26 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Serpiente]
#918394
08/13/17 09:50 PM
08/13/17 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 541
dsbaloo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 541
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I think the least guys can do while meeting to talk is to collect all cell phones and watches and put them in a bag or something and put it away from where everyone is talking.. . It's a fact the last few rats had devices in their phones or watches... so not speaking while phones or watches are present I feel like is a pretty easy thing to do and can bring the risk of being recorded down significantly....
Last edited by dsbaloo; 08/13/17 09:55 PM.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Serpiente]
#918447
08/14/17 09:36 PM
08/14/17 09:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 305
Stubbs
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 305
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Why dont they just write stuff on a whiteboard to each other, then erase it? Like write, "Go clip Vinny the Wop", then erase that shit. I mean, they can't all be illiterate right? Bugs can't pick up if you write something temporarily and dont say it out loud.
Or, just pass notes to each other: "Do you want your button? Check one: Yes [ ], No [ ], Maybe [ ]." Then burn it afterwords so there's no papertail
"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Stubbs]
#918511
08/16/17 07:10 AM
08/16/17 07:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
MightyDR
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
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Or, just pass notes to each other: "Do you want your button? Check one: Yes [ ], No [ ], Maybe [ ]." Then burn it afterwords so there's no papertail
In Chin's daughter's book, she says she used to see her father write notes for his guys and then burn them.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: MightyDR]
#918647
08/19/17 09:04 PM
08/19/17 09:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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Or, just pass notes to each other: "Do you want your button? Check one: Yes [ ], No [ ], Maybe [ ]." Then burn it afterwords so there's no papertail
In Chin's daughter's book, she says she used to see her father write notes for his guys and then burn them. Reminds me of high school. Hi Bobby. Baldy Dom thinks ur ttly cute. PS burn this note. LOL. Chin xxxxx
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Serpiente]
#945671
07/02/18 10:41 PM
07/02/18 10:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 69 Buffalo,New York
frankg2469
A.K.A. Benny Squint
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A.K.A. Benny Squint
Button
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 69
Buffalo,New York
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These dirtbags will rat out anybody. I even know of a few guys who made up s**t about people they barely knew and swore to conversations that never took place. The worst part of it is, this sort of behavior is encouraged by many at all levels of law enforcement.
"A mook---what's a mook ?" Johnny Boy Civello
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Kash]
#945706
07/03/18 12:37 PM
07/03/18 12:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,232
Serpiente
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,232
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This is tongue in cheek but even if you met butt naked for a meeting, these rats would stick an audio device up their ass. These guys are absolutely desperate to stay out of prison at all cost. Which makes you wonder why be a gangster in the first place? If I am a Boss or skipper you are getting a lie detector test randomly by two different contractors and if you fail or pass you don’t get told ever and if you fail I would have 24 hr Surveillance on you if not clipped ! No way am I and others in the same game and when you feel like ratting you give me up no way ! I would be using everything I could including strip searching and scanning for bugs regardless they have to know you are trying because as it stands these guys are getting away playing both sides and doing what they want for years .
Cackling like a banty Rooster.
I love this," "I just love this."
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Japseye1]
#945797
07/04/18 03:10 AM
07/04/18 03:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 490 Latvia
ThePolakVet
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 490
Latvia
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What bothers me the most is the fact they are still recruiting, proposing and making guys. The ranks are all the same etc . If they restructured it would help alot Same thing I thought. If Feds develop in their ways to bring down organized crime, then the mafia doesn't really.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Japseye1]
#945802
07/04/18 05:28 AM
07/04/18 05:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
NickyfromTampa
BANNED
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BANNED
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
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What bothers me the most is the fact they are still recruiting, proposing and making guys. The ranks are all the same etc . If they restructured it would help alot How would "restructuring" - as you put it - help in a significant way?
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: NickyfromTampa]
#945866
07/04/18 08:00 PM
07/04/18 08:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 178
Japseye1
BANNED
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BANNED
Made Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 178
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What bothers me the most is the fact they are still recruiting, proposing and making guys. The ranks are all the same etc . If they restructured it would help alot How would "restructuring" - as you put it - help in a significant way? Compare what law enforcement already know to what they won't know. If they reshuffled the administration and captains, territory, ranks and of course the rules then it would help. Keep in the mind the idea of a "secret society" which is the basis of reconstructing
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Japseye1]
#945972
07/06/18 06:34 AM
07/06/18 06:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
NickyfromTampa
BANNED
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BANNED
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
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What bothers me the most is the fact they are still recruiting, proposing and making guys. The ranks are all the same etc . If they restructured it would help alot How would "restructuring" - as you put it - help in a significant way? Compare what law enforcement already know to what they won't know. If they reshuffled the administration and captains, territory, ranks and of course the rules then it would help. Keep in the mind the idea of a "secret society" which is the basis of reconstructing I don't really get what you mean. Reshuffle the administration in capos as in bump down, for example, Barney Bellomo and put in someone else? And bump down captains and replace them with someone else from their crew? I don't know what that would achieve? Wherever the feds are getting their intel from (paid informers, wiretaps, etc.) they'd soon catch up and the mob would be right back to where they started, except now they would have a bunch of former admin members and capos that are pissed because they were bumped down for absolutely no reason. And what do you mean by reshuffle the rules? It just seems you're being very vague offering all these tips and tricks to an organization that has dominated the New York Metro and elsewhere for 100 years. And how would even go about reshuffling 'territory,' as you put it? Relocate all the Queens guys to Jersey?
Last edited by NickyfromTampa; 07/06/18 06:35 AM.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Penguin]
#951654
08/30/18 01:20 AM
08/30/18 01:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
NickyfromTampa
BANNED
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BANNED
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
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Serp ..at first I thought the lie detector test idea was stupid candidly. But on reflection, you are right. If I was an active guy, every few months I would make the guys around me get tested. I mean you can't ask your skipper but it helps limit your exposure. The problem is that only solves something dry snitching or being an FBI informant. It doesn't stop a guy from flipping after catching a pinch. However, it still would be a worthwhile $500 as you said. I heard somewhere that lie detector tests are inadmissible in many cases as evidence due to their low success rate. It measures fear and nervousness, not lying.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: NickyfromTampa]
#951667
08/30/18 07:54 AM
08/30/18 07:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,232
Serpiente
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,232
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Serp ..at first I thought the lie detector test idea was stupid candidly. But on reflection, you are right. If I was an active guy, every few months I would make the guys around me get tested. I mean you can't ask your skipper but it helps limit your exposure. The problem is that only solves something dry snitching or being an FBI informant. It doesn't stop a guy from flipping after catching a pinch. However, it still would be a worthwhile $500 as you said. I heard somewhere that lie detector tests are inadmissible in many cases as evidence due to their low success rate. It measures fear and nervousness, not lying. Yeah it can not be a end all murder thing ! But a guy fails now you never revel the tests EVER and if a guy fails you spend the money on a good Private detective to get the right info and of course this private detective (that they have use many times over the years for half light stuff) has to be close to the family like there Lawyers that do borderline work . Not saying that it will stop all ! But if you know you are getting a test no way are you wearing a wire or taking a chance .....it will stop 90% of the beginning of snitches !!! If I am a skipper or a boss that money is the most well invested money ever ! You guys ever been locked up .... it sucks !
Last edited by Serpiente; 08/30/18 08:48 AM.
Cackling like a banty Rooster.
I love this," "I just love this."
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#951787
08/31/18 01:25 PM
08/31/18 01:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
SoCalGangs
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
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Are you saying the Mafia hasn't murdered people over signs of disrespect? They did, I understand that, it's just that after watching all those episodes from the "Gangland" series, and hearing those street thugs (Bloods, Crips, Nortenos, Latin Kings, skinheads etc) using the word "disrespect" more than any other word (and in most cases really out of place), so when I hear criminals (even serious and big-time ones) talking about disrespect as motive for their actions, I always have an impulse to start laughing.... I know the mafia isn't funny, but from a certain point I can't help but associate the word "disrespect" with those low-level thugs from street gangs who jump in front of the cameras with faces covered by colored handkerchiefs, holding rolls of cash and shouting "Yeah, big money, man! No sh@t, don't f@ck with us! BOOM BOOM BOOM! "Sex, money, murder" forever!" and similar things After hearing the word "disrespect" being used so many countless times in similar occasions, I can't take the word seriously any more, at least not in a criminal context, although I realize it wouldn't be funny at all, to meet one of those guys in real life... Those gangland shows are super sensationlist. And there’s probably some selection bias in the supposed gang members they happen to interview. They always irritated me.
Last edited by SoCalGangs; 08/31/18 01:25 PM.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: streetbossliborio]
#951835
08/31/18 09:54 PM
08/31/18 09:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 734
Michael_Giovanni
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 734
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He was caught on tape in a hotel threatening to beat his wife if she didn’t shut up and more arguments with her That is exactly what I was referring to. He said he would cut her tounge out.
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: streetbossliborio]
#951899
09/01/18 04:33 PM
09/01/18 04:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 734
Michael_Giovanni
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 734
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That’s heavy for an argument with the mrs haha. I would like to hear that Here's the link where it came from http://bitterqueen.typepad.com/frie...-files-boss-of-bosses-carlo-gambino.html with the quotes below. The FBI planted a bug in the long-married couple's hotel room during their March 1962 vacation to Miami, FL where they stayed at the Golden Gate, and Carlo gloated about his days at the track and Catherine complained about the Jews. Apparently Mrs. Gambino had an anti-Semitic streak: "She also stated that there were too many Jews there and she says she feels these Jews drink too much. She stated that she feels she is better than they are." As the wife of a bootlegger Mrs. Gambino apparently missed the irony in complaining about "these Jews" who "drink too much" but, of course, self-delusion is the first refuge of a mob wife. The marriage sounded thoroughly loveless with endless bickering based on the FBI eavesdropping of the Gambino hotel room. Carlo on one occasion called Catherine a "shrew" with "a sharp tongue," and on another occasion cursed at her and "then told his wife that she talked too much and if she did not shut up, he would cut her tongue off."
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: DiLorenzo]
#951908
09/01/18 06:42 PM
09/01/18 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,232
Serpiente
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,232
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These guys don't even need to be wired anymore...They just waltz in to court, give a story and the jury sentences people to 25-life based pretty much, solely on the word of a career criminal who lies every day of his life...
Just finished reading D'arco's book...Its disgusting that a prosecutor asks him if he recognize these numbers and when he didn't they had a little huddle and he comes back on the stand and says it was the number for a guy's shylocking book that they took over...Then James Larossa proved with rent receipts that it was the defendants rent, down to the penny...
The government should be above trying to frame people like this !! That’s right it’s never fair they stack the deck before it’s delt . It’s just not possible Feds do what gangsters do and will push and push for favors or leniency ect. now don’t crush me I know the guys they are putting away are committing crimes but it’s the same. They locked up every little numbers all the up to the biggest to do what ? Fucken took it for the state then when you win you pay taxes right back to the state that sure sounds like a crime .
Cackling like a banty Rooster.
I love this," "I just love this."
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Re: " Rats "
[Re: Kash]
#952255
09/05/18 09:40 AM
09/05/18 09:40 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 246
2a
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 246
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This is tongue in cheek but even if you met butt naked for a meeting, these rats would stick an audio device up their ass. These guys are absolutely desperate to stay out of prison at all cost. Which makes you wonder why be a gangster in the first place? I don't mean to get graphic here , but is it even possible to effectively utilize an audio device in the manner you've described ? I mean I'd wager that it would be extremely uncomfortable ( to say the least ) to walk around with a audio device concealed in the manner you've described , not to even mention it's effectiveness at recording anything of worthwhile quality . This is probably gonna come off silly , but ( to add to the hypothetical ideas proposed above ) I'd definitely make sure that every member of my organization would have sex on a regular basis with trusted female associates ( in all likelihood prostitutes ) if I happened to be a mob boss . In fact I'd even require said female associates to give massages of the area you've described above , during said sessions to eliminate the possibility of concealing audio devices in the manner described above . Of course law enforcement could and would try to flip said female associates , but that's my out of the box contribution to the realm of this hypothetical scenario .
Last edited by 2a; 09/06/18 09:45 AM.
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