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Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: SinatraClub] #901007
12/08/16 04:31 PM
12/08/16 04:31 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Frank Cotroni wasn't even a force in his later years, especially after his last release from prison. I also wouldn't jump to conclusions and assume the Cotroni group has all of a sudden regrouped, and become a force within the Montreal Mafia like old times. If there is some newly consolidated Cotroni group, I'd place it in the same group as the typical factions. Meaning it's group comprised of other Italian Canadian & French Canadian criminals moreso than Cotronis themselves. In other words, I simply don't believe there is anything at this point to go on that leads to them suddenly being a standalone faction.


Despite the power shift, Frank Cotroni appeared to maintain
considerable influence in Montreal's underworld.
In July 2002, he was still described in police
intelligence reports as "an important person in the Montreal
Italian Mafia and in Canada."

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: SinatraClub] #901010
12/08/16 04:48 PM
12/08/16 04:48 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Frank Cotroni wasn't even a force in his later years, especially after his last release from prison. I also wouldn't jump to conclusions and assume the Cotroni group has all of a sudden regrouped, and become a force within the Montreal Mafia like old times. If there is some newly consolidated Cotroni group, I'd place it in the same group as the typical factions. Meaning it's group comprised of other Italian Canadian & French Canadian criminals moreso than Cotronis themselves. In other words, I simply don't believe there is anything at this point to go on that leads to them suddenly being a standalone faction.


Frank Cotroni was a force to be reckoned with in the 80s and inherited the so called Calabrian faction from his brother while Di Maulo, who was his protege, inherited it from him. Di Maulo married into the Cotroni family through his daughter and he took the Cotroni sons under his wing. So the Cotroni-Di Maulo faction (the old Cotroni-Violi group) never really ceased to exist up until this day.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901031
12/08/16 05:58 PM
12/08/16 05:58 PM
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Correct Sonny, they just operated in the shadows of the Rizzutos.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901097
12/09/16 08:51 AM
12/09/16 08:51 AM
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Desjardins and De Vito associate charged with importing cocaine

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/12...is-arrestations

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Hollander] #901125
12/09/16 01:39 PM
12/09/16 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Hollander
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Frank Cotroni wasn't even a force in his later years, especially after his last release from prison. I also wouldn't jump to conclusions and assume the Cotroni group has all of a sudden regrouped, and become a force within the Montreal Mafia like old times. If there is some newly consolidated Cotroni group, I'd place it in the same group as the typical factions. Meaning it's group comprised of other Italian Canadian & French Canadian criminals moreso than Cotronis themselves. In other words, I simply don't believe there is anything at this point to go on that leads to them suddenly being a standalone faction.


Despite the power shift, Frank Cotroni appeared to maintain
considerable influence in Montreal's underworld.
In July 2002, he was still described in police
intelligence reports as "an important person in the Montreal
Italian Mafia and in Canada."


In '00 period before he died in '04, which are the "later years" I'm referring to, Cotroni wasn't much of a factor in the Montreal underworld, this is at least according to The Northern Connection & Peter Edwards. Not saying it's facts, but there's no reason to assume Edwards wouldn't have an idea. A law enforcement officer from the time is quoted as saying "he's slowed down quite a bit. The organization is in tatters, if you want to call it an organization." This officer is unnamed however, and I don't know which organization he's referring to, most likely the Cotroni group itself, meaning the direct group whom was under Cotroni & his brother themselves. He definitely stayed in contact with various undesirables though, I won't deny that, which was his reason for going back to prison in '02 on a parole violation, meeting with a man who went on to meet with old Cotroni associates. I believe he even released a cookbook during this period, I wonder how guys would've felt about that. It's not exactly writing a memoir but who knows.

Chapter 28 of the aforementioned book details the murder of Franks son Paul in '98. There's another quote by another unnamed member of law enforcement, granted, but the rumors were to them that the killers did a sort of risk assessment before they killed the kid and they supposedly determined "They (Frank's Crime Family?) didn't have the clout in place..."; Meaning the "old Cotroni group" of Frank's didn't have the clout to avenge the death of his own son. These were supposedly bikers, as rumors were he was selling diluted cocaine to biker gangs. Again, rumors, but again Edwards was also a reporter for these groups specifically, and this specific book is usually referenced when sometimes the Cotroni's come up in other places. But hey, he could be wrong, I don't suspect him to be right about everything.


As far as the current status of the immediate group, I think Frank's son Francesco is still around, he served time for murder before, and if he isn't in prison I can see him being the representation for the "Cotroni group", I guess in the same way Leonardo would be for the "Rizzuto group", so I could be wrong about they're current place within the Montreal milieu.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901197
12/09/16 10:28 PM
12/09/16 10:28 PM
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I believe Nicodemo is Frank's oldest son, who is technically the family's patriarch. I'm not sure, but I vaguegly remember reading somewhere that Francisco was out of the game. Perhaps this Michel is now representing the group since he was named along with Domenico Violi as attending that meeting.

I think, if true, a clash between the Rizzutos and Cotronis had to happen at some point. I'd say it was even inevitable given the history.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #901199
12/09/16 10:40 PM
12/09/16 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
I believe Nicodemo is Frank's oldest son, who is technically the family's patriarch. I'm not sure, but I vaguegly remember reading somewhere that Francisco was out of the game. Perhaps this Michel is now representing the group since he was named along with Domenico Violi as attending that meeting.

I think, if true, a clash between the Rizzutos and Cotronis had to happen at some point. I'd say it was even inevitable given the history.


Would be nice to see a list of the other 18 attendees.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Hollander] #901202
12/09/16 10:57 PM
12/09/16 10:57 PM
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I Think some of the other attendees are members of the Ndrangheta in Ontario or some men with contact to the Ndrangheta Guys.

I think not that only the cotronis and violis have the finger in the game in Montreal in future. In the background are other Groups. Full Calabrians if you know what I mean.


Last edited by Marcow; 12/09/16 10:58 PM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901208
12/09/16 11:45 PM
12/09/16 11:45 PM
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Wow its cold in mass tonight like 17. So i can only imagine up there. Makes perfect sense just old scores being settled 30+yrs later. I being in the usa think it deffintly started in 2006when it was reported massino flipped and the whole montreal bonanno/rizzuto family has been whacked out. These guys fathers who were killed probaly on orders from nyc in the 70tys said you know what fuck them and there rat boss vitos gone lets kill everyone else standing behind him.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901209
12/09/16 11:46 PM
12/09/16 11:46 PM
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They won.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901264
12/10/16 04:48 PM
12/10/16 04:48 PM
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By the time Massino flipped, the speculation was that the Rizzuto's were no longer under the Bonanno's anyway. Idk about that anymore, but even if that isn't true, your line about the Montreal Bonannos/Rizzutos being wiped out is a bit inaccurate. Suppose the Rizzutos did get upset with Massino after the whole Sciascia thing, and stopped answering to Massino, the criminal group itself, existed and regaining strength even until the day Vito died. After that, they still merely existed in the criminal world (I don't know about thrived) under Leonardo Rizzuto & Stefano Sollecito. IF that isn't true, then the Montreal Bonannos still existed even after Massino flipped, as Cicale reports of Montreal kicking up to Basciano & Tony Urso (D'Urso?), then you have the whole Montagna connection, him being the literal link to the old Sciascia NY crew and there still being a link to the Bonannos & the Montreal group. Long story short, what I'm saying is, the Montreal Bonanno/Rizzuto group was never "whacked out" (at least maybe up until now) and those links and supposed testimony proves that Massino wasn't crucial to their survival. And clearly things that occurred before Massino's era is proving to have been the Rizzuto's ultimate downfall, NOT Joey Massino and him flipping.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901290
12/10/16 10:07 PM
12/10/16 10:07 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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It's just that most of the Montreal Bonanno crew members are now dead. Rizzuto, Di Maulo, Renda, Arcuri, Gallo and even Montagna. It is however possible that the Cotronis are still in contact with New York and have their support. The historical ties between the Cotronis and Bonannos were strong.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901349
12/11/16 02:30 PM
12/11/16 02:30 PM
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Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
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Yea the Rizzuto's thrived without the Bonanno's, they might have needed their strength early on but they probably quadrupled their money and strength in Canada without New York's help. That was proven as Rizzuto was at his height during the 2000's it seems. No telling where they would be had Vito not gone away to Supermax and gotten shitty health care it seems. And no telling what Vito was still worth when he died. Just look at his deal with Magi when he brought in help to pay for it and bought five of those condos for a $1 a piece. He probably could have netted more than the 1.7 they sold for, that's what we know about. The drug numbers are probably out of this world, as we seen Desjardins proved they were worth fighting over.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901358
12/11/16 04:01 PM
12/11/16 04:01 PM
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I think the key link between the two families nowadays is the drugtrade with the Bonnanos as customers.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #901365
12/11/16 06:00 PM
12/11/16 06:00 PM
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antimafia Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: antimafia


Two pages back I posted a link to Daniel Renaud's October 4 article about the Solid Gold attacks. Here's the story link in case you haven't read the article:

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justic...s-criminels.php

According to the article, a source revealed that after Gallo's murder, Solid Gold passed into Stefano Sollecito's hands. The article also mentions that this information has not been corroborated by police. If the source's information is accurate, maybe one or more people close to Gallo were behind the attacks for a number of reasons, e.g., anger over Gallo's murder, resentment arising from losing the establishment.

If the information isn't accurate, the attacks may have been committed by people who were upset with Gallo's having sided with Montagna.

Toward the end of the article is the suggestion that because of the Solid Gold attacks, law enforcement will be looking into whether and how the murders of Rocco Sollecito and Moreno Gallo are related.


Yeah, I read that article (I rarely miss any) but I forgot about it stating that it had transitioned to Sollecito. It seems to me that Rocco Sollecito's murder could rather be linked to Giordano than Gallo, but who knows. Gallo had a small army of his own I believe. I still wonder where Mucci stood in all of this. Based on tapes of the Consenza club it looked like that Mucci was with Gallo back then. But based on information from Renaud, Mucci had supposedly distanced himself from Gallo during the take-over attempt because he chose to be neutral. Do you happen to have more information of Mucci's relationship with Gallo? I know that Mucci was in charge of a crew who where distributing coke, but I think that he was Gallo's second-in-command. Also, I ignored your advice and read your post in its entirety. ;) 


Sorry for only getting around to answering you now.

On September 26, 2012, Éric Vecchio, a police officer with the SPVM, where his title is lieutenant-détective, testified before the Charbonneau Commission inquiry (the CEIC). The transcript of his testimony will be found at

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ceic.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmin/Fichiers_client/fichiers/Transcriptions/2012-09/Transcription_audience_CEIC_2012-09-26.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwisnrCSjO3QAhUBw2MKHTm3A88QFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNFg4WCbpeWWMyieIR6D0wRYsq9Xqw&sig2=lQO1HKjyxaZI9qd5OGI6NA

or at

https://www.ceic.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmin/Fi...2012-09-26.pdf.

At least one of these links should work.

Below is an excerpt from the transcript.

Q. Et également à l'instar de monsieur Moreno Gallo il faisait partie, il est calabrais?

R. Lui aussi il est calabrais, très proche de monsieur Di Maulo et très proche aussi avec le départ de monsieur Rizzuto, il y a toujours été dans l'entourage, là, des peut-être supposés prétendants au titre. Monsieur Mucci pendant un bout de temps a été, les rumeurs courait que c'est lui qui allait devenir la tête du réseau, la tête de l'organisation, ce qui était assez, tant qu'à moi assez farfelu, là.

Q. [419] Pour?

Parce que monsieur Mucci n'a jamais, n'a jamais occupé des, des postes clés dans le crime organisé italien à Montréal. Il a toujours été considéré comme un subalterne et non pas une tête dirigeante.
Donc son lien avec monsieur Di Maulo le laisse...

Donc monsieur Mucci a toujours été un peu dans l'ombre de monsieur Di Maulo. Donc le, le titre était plus ou moins farfelu.

Last edited by antimafia; 12/11/16 07:42 PM. Reason: Fixed some of the formatting of the excerpt.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901380
12/11/16 08:26 PM
12/11/16 08:26 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: antimafia
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: antimafia


Two pages back I posted a link to Daniel Renaud's October 4 article about the Solid Gold attacks. Here's the story link in case you haven't read the article:

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justic...s-criminels.php

According to the article, a source revealed that after Gallo's murder, Solid Gold passed into Stefano Sollecito's hands. The article also mentions that this information has not been corroborated by police. If the source's information is accurate, maybe one or more people close to Gallo were behind the attacks for a number of reasons, e.g., anger over Gallo's murder, resentment arising from losing the establishment.

If the information isn't accurate, the attacks may have been committed by people who were upset with Gallo's having sided with Montagna.

Toward the end of the article is the suggestion that because of the Solid Gold attacks, law enforcement will be looking into whether and how the murders of Rocco Sollecito and Moreno Gallo are related.


Yeah, I read that article (I rarely miss any) but I forgot about it stating that it had transitioned to Sollecito. It seems to me that Rocco Sollecito's murder could rather be linked to Giordano than Gallo, but who knows. Gallo had a small army of his own I believe. I still wonder where Mucci stood in all of this. Based on tapes of the Consenza club it looked like that Mucci was with Gallo back then. But based on information from Renaud, Mucci had supposedly distanced himself from Gallo during the take-over attempt because he chose to be neutral. Do you happen to have more information of Mucci's relationship with Gallo? I know that Mucci was in charge of a crew who where distributing coke, but I think that he was Gallo's second-in-command. Also, I ignored your advice and read your post in its entirety. ;) 


Sorry for only getting around to answering you now.

On September 26, 2012, Éric Vecchio, a police officer with the SPVM, where his title is lieutenant-détective, testified before the Charbonneau Commission inquiry (the CEIC). The transcript of his testimony will be found at

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ceic.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmin/Fichiers_client/fichiers/Transcriptions/2012-09/Transcription_audience_CEIC_2012-09-26.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwisnrCSjO3QAhUBw2MKHTm3A88QFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNFg4WCbpeWWMyieIR6D0wRYsq9Xqw&sig2=lQO1HKjyxaZI9qd5OGI6NA

or at

https://www.ceic.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmin/Fi...2012-09-26.pdf.

At least one of these links should work.

Below is an excerpt from the transcript.

Q. Et également à l'instar de monsieur Moreno Gallo il faisait partie, il est calabrais?

R. Lui aussi il est calabrais, très proche de monsieur Di Maulo et très proche aussi avec le départ de monsieur Rizzuto, il y a toujours été dans l'entourage, là, des peut-être supposés prétendants au titre. Monsieur Mucci pendant un bout de temps a été, les rumeurs courait que c'est lui qui allait devenir la tête du réseau, la tête de l'organisation, ce qui était assez, tant qu'à moi assez farfelu, là.

Q. [419] Pour?

Parce que monsieur Mucci n'a jamais, n'a jamais occupé des, des postes clés dans le crime organisé italien à Montréal. Il a toujours été considéré comme un subalterne et non pas une tête dirigeante.
Donc son lien avec monsieur Di Maulo le laisse...

Donc monsieur Mucci a toujours été un peu dans l'ombre de monsieur Di Maulo. Donc le, le titre était plus ou moins farfelu.


Better late than never, thanks! wink

So another one who fell under Di Maulo's wing. This indicates that Mucci is probably not a made member, because the members of the Montreal Bonanno crew were high ranking in the Montreal Mafia as a whole. The were basically capos in the Cotroni and Rizzuto organizations.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: SinatraClub] #901453
12/12/16 12:26 PM
12/12/16 12:26 PM
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Ciment Offline
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Originally Posted By: Hollander
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Frank Cotroni wasn't even a force in his later years, especially after his last release from prison. I also wouldn't jump to conclusions and assume the Cotroni group has all of a sudden regrouped, and become a force within the Montreal Mafia like old times. If there is some newly consolidated Cotroni group, I'd place it in the same group as the typical factions. Meaning it's group comprised of other Italian Canadian & French Canadian criminals moreso than Cotronis themselves. In other words, I simply don't believe there is anything at this point to go on that leads to them suddenly being a standalone faction.


Despite the power shift, Frank Cotroni appeared to maintain
considerable influence in Montreal's underworld.
In July 2002, he was still described in police
intelligence reports as "an important person in the Montreal
Italian Mafia and in Canada."


In '00 period before he died in '04, which are the "later years" I'm referring to, Cotroni wasn't much of a factor in the Montreal underworld, this is at least according to The Northern Connection & Peter Edwards. Not saying it's facts, but there's no reason to assume Edwards wouldn't have an idea. A law enforcement officer from the time is quoted as saying "he's slowed down quite a bit. The organization is in tatters, if you want to call it an organization." This officer is unnamed however, and I don't know which organization he's referring to, most likely the Cotroni group itself, meaning the direct group whom was under Cotroni & his brother themselves. He definitely stayed in contact with various undesirables though, I won't deny that, which was his reason for going back to prison in '02 on a parole violation, meeting with a man who went on to meet with old Cotroni associates. I believe he even released a cookbook during this period, I wonder how guys would've felt about that. It's not exactly writing a memoir but who knows.

Chapter 28 of the aforementioned book details the murder of Franks son Paul in '98. There's another quote by another unnamed member of law enforcement, granted, but the rumors were to them that the killers did a sort of risk assessment before they killed the kid and they supposedly determined "They (Frank's Crime Family?) didn't have the clout in place..."; Meaning the "old Cotroni group" of Frank's didn't have the clout to avenge the death of his own son. These were supposedly bikers, as rumors were he was selling diluted cocaine to biker gangs. Again, rumors, but again Edwards was also a reporter for these groups specifically, and this specific book is usually referenced when sometimes the Cotroni's come up in other places. But hey, he could be wrong, I don't suspect him to be right about everything.


As far as the current status of the immediate group, I think Frank's son Francesco is still around, he served time for murder before, and if he isn't in prison I can see him being the representation for the "Cotroni group", I guess in the same way Leonardo would be for the "Rizzuto group", so I could be wrong about they're current place within the Montreal milieu.


The risk assessment turn out to be wrong, the person that ordered the killing of Paul Cotroni, Johnny Plescio one of the founders of the Rock Machine was killed about two weeks later and his brother Tony Plescio was killed one year later. Johnny Plescio didn't like the fact the Paul& Frank Cotroni Jr. were doing business with HA.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901455
12/12/16 12:31 PM
12/12/16 12:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,187
Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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If the Google translate is right I agree with that Mucci was not a major player in the upper echelon either. Still good stuff.

Edit: I may have misunderstood the post just for the record.

Last edited by dixiemafia; 12/12/16 12:34 PM. Reason: Got confused in all the quotes
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: SinatraClub] #901458
12/12/16 01:04 PM
12/12/16 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Originally Posted By: Hollander
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Frank Cotroni wasn't even a force in his later years, especially after his last release from prison. I also wouldn't jump to conclusions and assume the Cotroni group has all of a sudden regrouped, and become a force within the Montreal Mafia like old times. If there is some newly consolidated Cotroni group, I'd place it in the same group as the typical factions. Meaning it's group comprised of other Italian Canadian & French Canadian criminals moreso than Cotronis themselves. In other words, I simply don't believe there is anything at this point to go on that leads to them suddenly being a standalone faction.


Despite the power shift, Frank Cotroni appeared to maintain
considerable influence in Montreal's underworld.
In July 2002, he was still described in police
intelligence reports as "an important person in the Montreal
Italian Mafia and in Canada."


In '00 period before he died in '04, which are the "later years" I'm referring to, Cotroni wasn't much of a factor in the Montreal underworld, this is at least according to The Northern Connection & Peter Edwards. Not saying it's facts, but there's no reason to assume Edwards wouldn't have an idea. A law enforcement officer from the time is quoted as saying "he's slowed down quite a bit. The organization is in tatters, if you want to call it an organization." This officer is unnamed however, and I don't know which organization he's referring to, most likely the Cotroni group itself, meaning the direct group whom was under Cotroni & his brother themselves. He definitely stayed in contact with various undesirables though, I won't deny that, which was his reason for going back to prison in '02 on a parole violation, meeting with a man who went on to meet with old Cotroni associates. I believe he even released a cookbook during this period, I wonder how guys would've felt about that. It's not exactly writing a memoir but who knows.

Chapter 28 of the aforementioned book details the murder of Franks son Paul in '98. There's another quote by another unnamed member of law enforcement, granted, but the rumors were to them that the killers did a sort of risk assessment before they killed the kid and they supposedly determined "They (Frank's Crime Family?) didn't have the clout in place..."; Meaning the "old Cotroni group" of Frank's didn't have the clout to avenge the death of his own son. These were supposedly bikers, as rumors were he was selling diluted cocaine to biker gangs. Again, rumors, but again Edwards was also a reporter for these groups specifically, and this specific book is usually referenced when sometimes the Cotroni's come up in other places. But hey, he could be wrong, I don't suspect him to be right about everything.


As far as the current status of the immediate group, I think Frank's son Francesco is still around, he served time for murder before, and if he isn't in prison I can see him being the representation for the "Cotroni group", I guess in the same way Leonardo would be for the "Rizzuto group", so I could be wrong about they're current place within the Montreal milieu.


It was also a dumb move on the Rock Machine part to pick a fight with the Cotroni's while they are waging war on the Hells. The position of the mafia was do do business with both biker gangs. The Mafia didn't want the Hells to become too powerful. They were playing a balancing act with them. Peter Edwards mentions that in this book that I am presently reading the "The Bandido Massacre"; also heard the same from another source.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Ciment] #901467
12/12/16 02:29 PM
12/12/16 02:29 PM
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SinatraClub Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ciment
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Originally Posted By: Hollander
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Frank Cotroni wasn't even a force in his later years, especially after his last release from prison. I also wouldn't jump to conclusions and assume the Cotroni group has all of a sudden regrouped, and become a force within the Montreal Mafia like old times. If there is some newly consolidated Cotroni group, I'd place it in the same group as the typical factions. Meaning it's group comprised of other Italian Canadian & French Canadian criminals moreso than Cotronis themselves. In other words, I simply don't believe there is anything at this point to go on that leads to them suddenly being a standalone faction.


Despite the power shift, Frank Cotroni appeared to maintain
considerable influence in Montreal's underworld.
In July 2002, he was still described in police
intelligence reports as "an important person in the Montreal
Italian Mafia and in Canada."


In '00 period before he died in '04, which are the "later years" I'm referring to, Cotroni wasn't much of a factor in the Montreal underworld, this is at least according to The Northern Connection & Peter Edwards. Not saying it's facts, but there's no reason to assume Edwards wouldn't have an idea. A law enforcement officer from the time is quoted as saying "he's slowed down quite a bit. The organization is in tatters, if you want to call it an organization." This officer is unnamed however, and I don't know which organization he's referring to, most likely the Cotroni group itself, meaning the direct group whom was under Cotroni & his brother themselves. He definitely stayed in contact with various undesirables though, I won't deny that, which was his reason for going back to prison in '02 on a parole violation, meeting with a man who went on to meet with old Cotroni associates. I believe he even released a cookbook during this period, I wonder how guys would've felt about that. It's not exactly writing a memoir but who knows.

Chapter 28 of the aforementioned book details the murder of Franks son Paul in '98. There's another quote by another unnamed member of law enforcement, granted, but the rumors were to them that the killers did a sort of risk assessment before they killed the kid and they supposedly determined "They (Frank's Crime Family?) didn't have the clout in place..."; Meaning the "old Cotroni group" of Frank's didn't have the clout to avenge the death of his own son. These were supposedly bikers, as rumors were he was selling diluted cocaine to biker gangs. Again, rumors, but again Edwards was also a reporter for these groups specifically, and this specific book is usually referenced when sometimes the Cotroni's come up in other places. But hey, he could be wrong, I don't suspect him to be right about everything.


As far as the current status of the immediate group, I think Frank's son Francesco is still around, he served time for murder before, and if he isn't in prison I can see him being the representation for the "Cotroni group", I guess in the same way Leonardo would be for the "Rizzuto group", so I could be wrong about they're current place within the Montreal milieu.


The risk assessment turn out to be wrong, the person that ordered the killing of Paul Cotroni, Johnny Plescio one of the founders of the Rock Machine was killed about two weeks later and his brother Tony Plescio was killed one year later. Johnny Plescio didn't like the fact the Paul& Frank Cotroni Jr. were doing business with HA.



Is there definitive proof that Plescio was killed by members of the Cotroni group though? I don't believe so. As you mentioned, they were already in a long standing war against the Hells Angels. The risk assessment simply could've been correct and someone outside of the Cotroni's killed Plescio over drugs, but unrelated to the Paolo Cotroni Jr. murder.


And we see how the Montreal Mafias game with the HAs turned out. They actually ended up empowering them and the HAs have outlasted the mafia group of Montreal for the most part. And I dont doubt the goal was to work with both groups, as evidence shows. Evidence also shows the relationship between The Rock Machine & The Montreal Mafia may have eroded over time. As Leonardo Rizzuto was involved in a fight with a member of Rock Machine, I believe this member was killed afterwards but I could be wrong. And it was I think Paolo Gervasi's kid whom was murdered by mafia loyalists for dealing drugs with the Rock Machine after HA complained. Or I may have that in reverse. And Cazzetta eventually joins up with HAs as well. And he seems to be, at least after Vito's death, the primary liason between the Montreal Mafia & The Hells Angels, him and Greg Wooley.

Last edited by SinatraClub; 12/12/16 02:33 PM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: SinatraClub] #901486
12/12/16 04:16 PM
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If you want definitive proof, then you better not believe 90% of what is said on this forum because no one has the proof or facts unless you happen to be there yourself.
It is only logic that a person like Johnny Plescio issues threats to two sons of a notorious crime family, orders the murders of Paolo Cotroni and then this person Johnny Plescio just happens to get killed two weeks after Paolo Cotroni gets killed.
Yep it must be coincidence !

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901517
12/12/16 06:27 PM
12/12/16 06:27 PM
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For what its worth, a very knowlegeable poster on another forum had stumbled upon an FBI file that stated that Gerlando Sciascia was believed (by the Bonanno admin) to have ordered the murder of Cotroni's son and was killed himself as a result of it. I'm not sure, but I believe this was apparantly said by Massino himself.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901528
12/12/16 07:17 PM
12/12/16 07:17 PM
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http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justic...-a-la-mafia.php

Attempted fire bombing....Marco Pizzi.

Things are heating up again.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #901531
12/12/16 07:41 PM
12/12/16 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
For what its worth, a very knowlegeable poster on another forum had stumbled upon an FBI file that stated that Gerlando Sciascia was believed (by the Bonanno admin) to have ordered the murder of Cotroni's son and was killed himself as a result of it. I'm not sure, but I believe this was apparantly said by Massino himself.


Gerard Gallant, Rock Machine hitman on orders from Plescio, confessed to having killed Paul Cotroni.
The Massino angle seems strange to me ,if you can get Massino's testimony on this matter I would be interested to know the connection.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Ciment] #901532
12/12/16 07:48 PM
12/12/16 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ciment
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
For what its worth, a very knowlegeable poster on another forum had stumbled upon an FBI file that stated that Gerlando Sciascia was believed (by the Bonanno admin) to have ordered the murder of Cotroni's son and was killed himself as a result of it. I'm not sure, but I believe this was apparantly said by Massino himself.


Gerard Gallant, Rock Machine hitman on orders from Plescio, confessed to having killed Paul Cotroni.
The Massino angle seems strange to me ,if you can get Massino's testimony on this matter I would be interested to know the connection.
'

I agree, maybe West End leader Raymond Desfossés had something to do with it because Gallant was his man.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #901534
12/12/16 09:06 PM
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Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
As Leonardo Rizzuto was involved in a fight with a member of Rock Machine, I believe this member was killed afterwards but I could be wrong.


Yes, almost certain he was killed. I think he even tried to go on the run once he found out who Leonardo was as I don't think he would have done it had he known.

Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
For what its worth, a very knowlegeable poster on another forum had stumbled upon an FBI file that stated that Gerlando Sciascia was believed (by the Bonanno admin) to have ordered the murder of Cotroni's son and was killed himself as a result of it. I'm not sure, but I believe this was apparantly said by Massino himself.


That would jive with the story that Vitale might have testified to that they tried to make up a story on Sciascia. I mean it's not exact word for word but makes sense that they would spread the rumor to not think Massino was behind the hit or at least give them a reason to do it.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: dixiemafia] #901542
12/12/16 10:50 PM
12/12/16 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
As Leonardo Rizzuto was involved in a fight with a member of Rock Machine, I believe this member was killed afterwards but I could be wrong.


Yes, almost certain he was killed. I think he even tried to go on the run once he found out who Leonardo was as I don't think he would have done it had he known.

Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
For what its worth, a very knowlegeable poster on another forum had stumbled upon an FBI file that stated that Gerlando Sciascia was believed (by the Bonanno admin) to have ordered the murder of Cotroni's son and was killed himself as a result of it. I'm not sure, but I believe this was apparantly said by Massino himself.


That would jive with the story that Vitale might have testified to that they tried to make up a story on Sciascia. I mean it's not exact word for word but makes sense that they would spread the rumor to not think Massino was behind the hit or at least give them a reason to do it.


Leonardo Rizzuto was not beaten by the Rock Machine, the biker that beat him up was a Hells Angel underling.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #901594
12/13/16 06:23 PM
12/13/16 06:23 PM
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Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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I didn't say he was beaten by a Rock Machine member, I overlooked it and Sinatra is the one that said Rock Machine. I just simply missed it when replying.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: dixiemafia] #901601
12/13/16 06:50 PM
12/13/16 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
I didn't say he was beaten by a Rock Machine member, I overlooked it and Sinatra is the one that said Rock Machine. I just simply missed it when replying.


Yes, I know it wasn't you Dixiemafia, that is why my response included Sinatra's quote. My apology if it was misconstrued.

I just wanted to correct the error in the original quote.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Ciment] #901667
12/14/16 09:22 AM
12/14/16 09:22 AM
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Quebec, Canada
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Another fire-bombing at a business owned by Marco Pizzi: http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/12...ocktail-molotov


Not just getting my stripes, something I can't talk about. Something that was ruining my whole life and he made it right. For what I owe him, I would follow that man into hell.
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