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Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #899408
11/23/16 01:43 AM
11/23/16 01:43 AM
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Alfa Romeo Offline
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Just finished the 6th Family not too long ago.

I don't recommend the book, for three reasons.

Number one, it's a most difficult read, with sentences that snake back and forth like a maze.

Number two, the book is not even in chronological order on top of having sentence structure that is nearly incomprehensible.

Number three, the book is too fixated on Vito Rizzuto, like an infatuation or something. I believe Vito's role and importance were way overstated in this book.

The book contradicts itself in the sense that Vito Rizzuto is elevated to be the godfather of all Italians in organized crime in Canada, calls the collective "the 6th family". Then later it becomes clear that many different autonomous organized crime families from different parts of Italy are involved.

I just don't recommend the book, period.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #899525
11/23/16 08:53 PM
11/23/16 08:53 PM
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MightyDR Offline
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Not exactly a mafia book, but still organized crime, I recently finished the autobiography of Freeway Ricky Ross. Enjoyable read. He glosses over some important parts of his life such as the CIA/Blandon affair and his time in prison and spends a lot of time detailing less important things (school days). However, a lot of focus is put on his crack business, which is what I really wanted to hear about. Recommended to anyone interested in reading about drug dealers.

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #899857
11/27/16 10:14 AM
11/27/16 10:14 AM
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Footreads Offline
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The only time I ever heard someone called the sixth family was when the book the history of the mafia came out. When did that book come out I don't remember it was when we still had books stories here at kings plaza that was years ago.

My wife still reads books not that amazon thing. Although she has that.

I don't read books. But I was looking for anything to do with soccer I don't read those either. But people I know that are not into the game send me soccer stuff smile

That is when I saw that book history of the mafia by someone that had a weird name began with a Z if I recall.

In it I saw something about the ny purple gang no one even New who they were back then. Neither did the author he said they were called the 6th family.

That was the point of my run on post. I never heard anyone call them that before I t read it in that book. They had a whole 4 lines about them. smile it interested me so much I took the book. I did not say I bought the book. Then I through it away that night.


only the unloved hate
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Footreads] #899908
11/27/16 07:35 PM
11/27/16 07:35 PM
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Alfa Romeo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Footreads
The only time I ever heard someone called the sixth family was when the book the history of the mafia came out. When did that book come out I don't remember it was when we still had books stories here at kings plaza that was years ago.

My wife still reads books not that amazon thing. Although she has that.

I don't read books. But I was looking for anything to do with soccer I don't read those either. But people I know that are not into the game send me soccer stuff smile

That is when I saw that book history of the mafia by someone that had a weird name began with a Z if I recall.

In it I saw something about the ny purple gang no one even New who they were back then. Neither did the author he said they were called the 6th family.

That was the point of my run on post. I never heard anyone call them that before I t read it in that book. They had a whole 4 lines about them. smile it interested me so much I took the book. I did not say I bought the book. Then I through it away that night.


That's my point Foots. I really think the author just made it up.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #899914
11/27/16 08:14 PM
11/27/16 08:14 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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It's so annoying that Italian mafia books are hardly ever translated in English. There would be plenty of stuff to discuss, but I never found even one Italian forum about the subject. People read those books in Italy, but there doesn't seem to be any site/blog/forum to discuss them. On the English speaking forums it would be a "gold mine" of information, but nobody bothers to translate the books. Only "Gomorra" by Saviano and "Boss of bosses" by Attilio Bolzoni and Giuseppe D'Avanzo I think. Maybe there are others, but only a few...


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Dwalin2011] #899958
11/28/16 11:38 AM
11/28/16 11:38 AM
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Ciment Offline
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I agree with you there are not that many.

During a book sale I came across this book "Men of Honour" by Judge Giovanni Falcone 1992. This is another that was translated.

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Alfa Romeo] #900051
11/29/16 06:29 PM
11/29/16 06:29 PM
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SinatraClub Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Just finished the 6th Family not too long ago.

I don't recommend the book, for three reasons.

Number one, it's a most difficult read, with sentences that snake back and forth like a maze.

Number two, the book is not even in chronological order on top of having sentence structure that is nearly incomprehensible.

Number three, the book is too fixated on Vito Rizzuto, like an infatuation or something. I believe Vito's role and importance were way overstated in this book.

The book contradicts itself in the sense that Vito Rizzuto is elevated to be the godfather of all Italians in organized crime in Canada, calls the collective "the 6th family". Then later it becomes clear that many different autonomous organized crime families from different parts of Italy are involved.

I just don't recommend the book, period.



The term "Sixth Family" was created by the authors, but not when the book came out. The authors of Sixth Family and it's successor, "Business Or Blood" are actual Canadian crime reporters, and they had been using the term in some of their articles based on the Montreal Mafia.

The book NEVER, at ANY POINT claims that Vito Rizzuto was the "godfather of all Italians in Organized Crime". It's established early on, that the group he eventually went on to lead, as being the outsiders in the early parts of their criminal lives in Montreal, stating that the Calabrians ran things and were the power. It goes on to tell how they went on to lead the Montreal Mafia, specifically Montreal and NOT Canada, through the mistakes of former Calabrian leaders, the intervention of Sicilian Mafia bosses, and the fact that they were after all, BONANNOS, and were eventually backed by the powers of the family back in NY. In fact, the book makes clear, at least I think, that the Rizzutos and the Montreal Mob itself was at one point a simple faction of a NY family, it makes sure to mention that there were other Canadian Mafia groups that were connected to Buffalo, and 'Ndrangheta clans in Calabria.

The book also highlights exactly how Vito came to be the power in the Montreal underworld, that he factually was, through alliances with other Montreal criminal groups, like the Hells Angels. And how he eventually became a recognized force by law enforcement and other criminals in the whole of Canada, through smart alliances, and working with those other Italian groups that had already been or became established in Toronto and Ontario, like the Siderno group and the Musitano's. Not by just taking over things himself through brute force and just because.

If you want to learn about the Montreal Mafia, and the Montreal underworld as a whole, there are few better books than The Sixth Family. However as the title states, its about the Montreal Mafia, and whether you'd like to believe it or not, Vito Rizzuto and his father before him were important parts of that group and it's history, so it's going to be more fixated on the Montreal Mafia, than anything else.

I don't see how the book is difficult to read at all, but if you want something thats based on the same subject, a little more chronological, and less about the Rizzuto's, even though essentially they are heavily mentioned and discussed in this book as well, then I'd suggest Mafia Inc.

Re: Mafia Books [Re: SinatraClub] #900083
11/30/16 12:52 AM
11/30/16 12:52 AM
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leelamothe Offline
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Folks, great to see this discussion going on so long after The Sixth Family was released. (My name, by the way, is Lee Lamothe. I don't need to wear a cowardly internet balaclava -- I don't fear presenting my opinions/ideas/responses under my actual name. I stand by my books -- both long journalism and crime novels. My motto: this is me, if you don't like it, then bring it.)

I don't know who this Alfa Romeo person is -- I'm sure he's written many books about organized crime and has at least one leg to stand on. (I don't believe he's an actual Alfa Romeo -- a fine automobile I drove in Sicily while researching the Rizzuto family.) (And further bracket comments: I've figured out, quite easily, who many of the folks are who comment under ridiculous names.

Grab up your nuts and say who you are ... If you don't have the stones to do it, then how seriously can you expect to be taken? A coward behind a screen name can say anything. As said to me in many conversations with folks who live in the underworld: man the fuck up.)

I have no intention of defending The Sixth Family: those who know, know. And I'm out of the game now -- retired -- but a lot of Canadian crime writers aren't. They're the ones out there lifting the hod and carrying the water. If there's risk, they're the ones taking it. If you haven't done much except for internet mouth-offs, well ... take a look at yourself and see how much you've committed to the game. You should be ashamed. Name yourself. Defend yourself.

Lee Lamothe

Re: Mafia Books [Re: leelamothe] #900162
11/30/16 06:19 PM
11/30/16 06:19 PM
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Ciment Offline
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Mr. Lamothe

If you are who you say you are; then I am honored to be communicating with you.
I own two of your books and enjoyed them both.
You say your now retired but since I may have your attention and if you do not mine. I wonder if I a can pick your brain with a couple of questions; in case you might still be in the know by talking to some of your friends.

In October it was reported by journalists that the Montreal Hells Angels and the Ontario Ndrangheta were on the verge of forming an alliance in Montreal.
Do you know whether that has already occurred yet ?
If yes which Ontario Ndrangheta family is behind this?
Can you share some light as to which Montreal Italian mafia clan or clans at the moment is fighting the the Montreal Sicilian clan ?

Thanks

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #900211
12/01/16 02:28 AM
12/01/16 02:28 AM
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leelamothe Offline
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Ciment --this is a looooooong reply; the new French Beaujolais wine has come out today and I'm test-driving it. Pip pip.

Please identify yourself. Don't be afraid. (you can email me through my website www.leelamothe.com Click on the contact page.)

I've written literally hundreds of stories for the Toronto Sun; I've written a dozen books -- both true crime and pretty edgy crime novels, man. I put my name on each book or story like driving a nail into it. Come out of the shadows. Grab up your nuts. Name yourself, unless your name somehow shames you. Are you Alice No Nuts? Billy No Balls?

I am indeed Lee Lamothe -- retired. Or as one of my characters in a novel -- Free Form Jazz -- is described: Forgotten but not gone. (I am -- not to self-promote -- writing the ndrangheta novel that hasn't been finished to date ... But that's another tale ...)

Re the ndrangheta in Toronto: a few months ago my wife and I were at the Four Seasons hotel in Toronto; we saw Cosimo Commisso at D bar."; no "cover" folks with him; the following week we were shopping in Yorkville and saw Remo Commisso strolling up Bay Street with a lady friend -- again, no cover team. We plugged in behind him -- why not? He glanced back a few times, but my wife's in a wheelchair (great cover, eh?; this worked great when we were private investigators ...) and how dangerous could that be? It was a lazy Sunday. Clearly the ndrangheta folks in Toronto aren't in fear -- although they might have been several months ago.

To put this in perspective: several years ago before Eddie Melo was assassinated, my wife and I were at a bar in north Toronto; Eddie and his lawyer walked in and tried to send us a round of drinks; we declined -- I was still a reporter at the time -- and my wife, Lucy White, was a reporter at the Financial Post covering insider trading. But what stayed with us was his politeness -- I had, after all, recently written a totally inaccurate story about some unfortunate events in his workplace. I was wrong. He accepted it, and, in a telephone conversation offered to "come down there and sharpen your fucking pencils for you"; as a threat it was pretty okay with me (the cops had a wire up on his phone; and asked me later did I want to press charged ...Ahhhh, no, not so much ...) I wore the smelly brown helmet for that one -- I believed the cops, who apparently we guessing as much as I was ... -- and as I said: I'm retired.

But my world intersects with the "guys" on a regular basis, simply because I love food.(One of the ndrangheta folks, who own a restaurant in Little Italy, preparing to thrown me out of his resto, paused when I said, I'm not in the game any more: I just want to learn how to you make Veal Saltimbuccco; he called out his chef and said, "Show this little fuck how you do it ...) I run into the boys occasionally but I'm not worried: they do their thing, I do mine.(When I left the trade, I went to various mob joints I'd sat on late night shifts -- bakeries, meat markets, etc. and said, "I'm out of the game, I did my job .. You got probs? Let's straighten it out now ..." Kinda neat: I ended up with a year's worth of prosciutto, parmesan, olive oil, and to this day I never paid for baked goods on St. Clair. My bill comes to eighteen bucks? No problem. I give the guy a twenty, he gives me back four fives. What am I to do? I'm a fucking retiree. Every nickel counts, right?

Short tale: the ndrangheta -- Commissos and the rest of the new "cimini" have Toronto by the nuts. My own feeling is that the Hamilton group -- Violis -- settled their scores with the Rizzuto's as a matter of family honour. No sane person could look at the Rizzuto murders as anything but revenge. But if there's profit to be made, well that's the gravy on that meatloaf.(Further, I see Mr. Campoli, Vito Rizzuto's "man in Toronto" at his development office up on Avenue Road in North Toronto -- he's as serene as a parish priest with no witnesses. (When, as an old duffer on a pension, I have time to waste, I park uptown and check out various places, including Mrs. Rizzuto's place near Mr.Campoli's office. There's a great bagel place across the road ... I have to say, from my admittedly amateur investigation: there's a huge stretch of Avenue Road in Toronto that's hooked into the Sicilian (Camilleri/Rizzuto/Campoli) and Calabrian mob (Zito, Stalteri_ ...) And if anyone wanted to do some research: interesting that an all-star Canadian hockey legend is ... very friendly with Mr. Campoli -- their sons play in a league together ... and they're all over the wiretaps.

To your question: The HA are interesting as relate to the Toronto organized crime groups. Adrian Humphreys and I have many hundreds of hours of wiretaps/room/car probes of Rizzuto's folks in Toronto and leaders of the HA over a car probe in Toronto's club land. Listening to, for example, Joe Bravo talking with the head of the Ontario HA about a serious meeting of the "Clabs" at a Toronto hotel is pretty enlightening. Joe Bravo seemed to have a lot of respect for the Clabs; not so much for the HA.

While I have some personal connections and respect going back to the 1960s in Toronto of bikers who became HA folks(mostly the Vags who I still today count as friends), I have to say (having been to South America, NYC, and Sicily ...) Naw, the HA and the other bikers -- and I met some in Bangkok who are "chartered" (I think there re six of them) -- they're local yokels; real criminal types but .. .limited). Some good strong folks in there, but go to upcountry Burma -- specifically Hoa Tao, six kilometers from the Chinese/Yunnan border) and say "hells angels" and Wa tribe goes,in their headhunter dialogue while checking out your hat size: Who the fuck?" But say Sicilian mafia of Canada and they go ... "How much? What bank?"

I could go on, more and more. A great life of exceptional folks, both cops and crooks. But I've morphed myself into a visual artist -- life goes on, right? I spent a quarter century at it ... And a thousand stories that make absolutely no difference It's a game. I have my beliefs and they come from my own experience.

I greatly love the back and forth on the site especially about the Canadian mafia books. I don't so much love the stupid criticism. There are great people out there who risk their ... maybe not their lives, but their well-being and personal security: Paul Cherry of the Montreal Gazette, Kim Boland of (I think) the Vancouver Province, Michel Auger, and anyone who writes long-form journalism about organized crime. (In Toronto: not so much, except my writing partner Adrian Humphreys, the rest are essentially stenographers for the cops .. they don't go outside, God forbid. They live on press releases. They wouldn't know a gangster unless one of them held them up. There are less and less of them -- this work requires time and a commitment from their news organization. I was lucky: I had a city editor who said, "Just go and do the fucking work ..." He was fearless; thusly, so was I.

When my writing partner and I did a major take-out on a mob boss, the city editor, John Paton, offered us personal security. Of course we didn't take it. Why would we? We weren't afraid then, we aren't afraid now. We sign what we do.

Jeez. What late night wine will do to you. I'm out of it, out of the game; but still interested. I wish I could help, man. But no one knows what goes on in the underworld except the underworld. We have to hope for a rat. But, I swear, it won't a Calabrese or Sicilian rat. It'll be a biker. No question. And then we'll only know a tenth of the story.

There's heroes and there's zeroes. Too many zeroes.

Lee Lamothe

Re: Mafia Books [Re: leelamothe] #900218
12/01/16 05:40 AM
12/01/16 05:40 AM
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Ciment Offline
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Man, that must be some great wine your drinking.
Enjoy your Beaujolais mon ami!

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #900640
12/04/16 05:14 PM
12/04/16 05:14 PM
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Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
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Beanshooter Offline
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Kokomo
Journalist’s tell-all on mobster tied to JFK might have gotten her killed.

According to the author, Dorothy Kilgallen was the victim of foul play, likely orchestrated by New Orleans Mafia don Carlos Marcello, who feared the results of her 18-month investigation for a tell-all book that would accuse Marcello of masterminding the JFK and Lee Harvey ­Oswald assassinations.

http://nypost.com/2016/12/04/dorothy-kilgallens-tell-all-on-a-mafia-don-might-have-got-her-killed/

Re: Mafia Books [Re: SinatraClub] #900719
12/05/16 06:03 PM
12/05/16 06:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
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Thanks for the attempt at summarization Sinatra. I appreciate the tip on the next Canadia Cosa Nostra book to read.

The author of Sixth Family classes all of the disparate clans and families in Canada under the umbrella of Vito Rizzuto as "global super boss". The author even classifies the Caruana C[untrera clans as being part of the Sixth Family. That right there was clear evidence of a broad brush being used. That's my opinion. Obviously the Caruana C[untrera clans are distinct mafia families.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #900720
12/05/16 06:12 PM
12/05/16 06:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
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Just finished "The Coffey Files." Enjoyed it. On a scale of 1 to 10 for entertainment, I would give it a 7.5.

It's a little short for a book. But it gives fresh angles on some of the well known stuff.

For instance, Capeci wrote a masterpiece in Murder Machine, but he omitted details that Coffey didn't. Maybe Capeci didn't want to mention Demeo's blood drinking/tasting because he was ashamed of the factoid and didn't want it to diminish his masterpiece. Coffey didn't respect hoodlums, so he let their secrets out.


I don't know about "Coffee's Martial Law", but Joe Coffey was otherwise an exemplary man and police officer. I think any of us can learn from him by studying his journey.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #900723
12/05/16 06:50 PM
12/05/16 06:50 PM
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Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
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It says that Freddie DiNome died of autoerotic sexual deviation and not suicide, too.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Alfa Romeo] #900730
12/05/16 08:01 PM
12/05/16 08:01 PM
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SinatraClub Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Thanks for the attempt at summarization Sinatra. I appreciate the tip on the next Canadia Cosa Nostra book to read.

The author of Sixth Family classes all of the disparate clans and families in Canada under the umbrella of Vito Rizzuto as "global super boss". The author even classifies the Caruana C[untrera clans as being part of the Sixth Family. That right there was clear evidence of a broad brush being used. That's my opinion. Obviously the Caruana C[untrera clans are distinct mafia families.


The Sixth Family is a literal term to describe the immediate intermarried family I'm pretty sure, which were in fact the leaders of the Montreal Mafia & underworld cocaine & heroin scene, at the time. And the Caruana-[BadWord]'s are married into the Rizzuto clan & vice versa. Sooo, they kind of aren't that distinct at all, but cool beans.

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Alfa Romeo] #900731
12/05/16 08:02 PM
12/05/16 08:02 PM
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SinatraClub Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Just finished "The Coffey Files." Enjoyed it. On a scale of 1 to 10 for entertainment, I would give it a 7.5.

It's a little short for a book. But it gives fresh angles on some of the well known stuff.

For instance, Capeci wrote a masterpiece in Murder Machine, but he omitted details that Coffey didn't. Maybe Capeci didn't want to mention Demeo's blood drinking/tasting because he was ashamed of the factoid and didn't want it to diminish his masterpiece. Coffey didn't respect hoodlums, so he let their secrets out.


I don't know about "Coffee's Martial Law", but Joe Coffey was otherwise an exemplary man and police officer. I think any of us can learn from him by studying his journey.



Or maybe, just maybe it's bullshit.

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Moe_Tilden] #900752
12/06/16 12:03 AM
12/06/16 12:03 AM
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Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
It says that Freddie DiNome died of autoerotic sexual deviation and not suicide, too.


Yes but again, Murder Machine might have said he hung himself but never explained why. They left it up to the reader. By throwing in that autoerotic stuff, you are only adding a motive.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: SinatraClub] #900753
12/06/16 12:07 AM
12/06/16 12:07 AM
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Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Just finished "The Coffey Files." Enjoyed it. On a scale of 1 to 10 for entertainment, I would give it a 7.5.

It's a little short for a book. But it gives fresh angles on some of the well known stuff.

For instance, Capeci wrote a masterpiece in Murder Machine, but he omitted details that Coffey didn't. Maybe Capeci didn't want to mention Demeo's blood drinking/tasting because he was ashamed of the factoid and didn't want it to diminish his masterpiece. Coffey didn't respect hoodlums, so he let their secrets out.


I don't know about "Coffee's Martial Law", but Joe Coffey was otherwise an exemplary man and police officer. I think any of us can learn from him by studying his journey.



Or maybe, just maybe it's bullshit.


The reason I don't believe it's bullshit is simple Sinatra...

Capeci also hinted at blood rituals being performed by Dracula Guglielmo in his book. He didn't elaborate. In Coffey's book, a murder is described where right after Demeo stabbed Paul Castellano's son in law with an instrument, he drags the guy to the bathroom to drain his blood in the tub. At that moment is when Coffey's book says Demeo tasted some of the blood.

Obviously the account of the murder was given by a member of the Demeo crew, someone who was there, a killer.

You can call it bullshit, but you have to also call Capeci's mention of Dracula Guglielmo's blood rituals bullshit too. And if it's all bullshit, then maybe neither of these books are for you.



"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #900809
12/06/16 01:46 PM
12/06/16 01:46 PM
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SinatraClub Offline
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Actually Murder Machine is quite the good book, very informative and doesn't actually dwell into the many myths of the DeMeo crew. The blood ritual being one of them, Capeci never says in the book, in reference to Guglielmo that he performed blood rituals. Or maybe I must've missed that part. Coffey is a known to embellish details of his stories and out right make things up sometimes. Besides, he says Roy tasted some of the blood, some people taste their blood after a finger cut, that doesn't make them ritualistic blood suckers. And I wonder who could've told Coffey such a thing besides the only other rat in the crew whom is still alive, which is Dominick Montiglio, whom is also a known fabricator, his tale of the supposed Gambino meeting in which Paul Castellano was crowned official boss has also come under some scrutiny in recent years, as well.

Last edited by SinatraClub; 12/06/16 01:50 PM.
Re: Mafia Books [Re: SinatraClub] #900823
12/06/16 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Actually Murder Machine is quite the good book, very informative and doesn't actually dwell into the many myths of the DeMeo crew. The blood ritual being one of them, Capeci never says in the book, in reference to Guglielmo that he performed blood rituals. Or maybe I must've missed that part. Coffey is a known to embellish details of his stories and out right make things up sometimes. Besides, he says Roy tasted some of the blood, some people taste their blood after a finger cut, that doesn't make them ritualistic blood suckers. And I wonder who could've told Coffey such a thing besides the only other rat in the crew whom is still alive, which is Dominick Montiglio, whom is also a known fabricator, his tale of the supposed Gambino meeting in which Paul Castellano was crowned official boss has also come under some scrutiny in recent years, as well.


There's nothing in Mustain and Capeci's book that implies Roy was tasting blood. The allusions are made about his cousin Guglielmo. Here's the quote..."The others called him Dracula, and not just because he had silver hair and a deep voice." The implication there is pretty blatant.

Mention of Dracula's blood rituals may have been made outside of Murder Machine. But when you read the above quote and it's implications, what difference does it really make?

My point is that if you put weight on MM, then that lends some amount of credibility to Coffey's anecdotes also.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #901163
12/09/16 06:21 PM
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Yea, Murder Machine makes NO mention of DeMeo or Guglielmo conducting blood rituals. Not even Guglielmo...."The others call him Dracula, and not just because he had silver hair and a deep voice." So because of that line, you seem to believe Capeci & Mustain were adding credence to this "blood ritual/tasting" myth, that you mention Coffey speaking on in his book. It isn't because of the fact that Guglielmo's apartment was where majority of the murders actually took place inside the Gemini Lounge? Or not because Guglielmo himself is quoted as telling members of the DeMeo crew, that his floors were covered in a lot of history, when they'd be cleaning up the blood off the floors?

I put a lot more weight in MM than I would of anything Joe Coffey says, and again, Murder Machine doesn't mention DeMeo, Guglielmo or anyone else taking part in any "blood rituals".

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #901261
12/10/16 03:29 PM
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No disrespect Sinatra, but Coffey was one of the lead investigators so it probably lends his anecdote some credence.


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Re: Mafia Books [Re: SinatraClub] #901276
12/10/16 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Yea, Murder Machine makes NO mention of DeMeo or Guglielmo conducting blood rituals. Not even Guglielmo...."The others call him Dracula, and not just because he had silver hair and a deep voice." So because of that line, you seem to believe Capeci & Mustain were adding credence to this "blood ritual/tasting" myth, that you mention Coffey speaking on in his book. It isn't because of the fact that Guglielmo's apartment was where majority of the murders actually took place inside the Gemini Lounge? Or not because Guglielmo himself is quoted as telling members of the DeMeo crew, that his floors were covered in a lot of history, when they'd be cleaning up the blood off the floors?

I put a lot more weight in MM than I would of anything Joe Coffey says, and again, Murder Machine doesn't mention DeMeo, Guglielmo or anyone else taking part in any "blood rituals".


Well think about it Sinatra. You propose here that Guglielmo was nicknamed Dracula by the other club members because it was his apartment where most of the killing took place. That could be, but they were all there doing the killing in that same apartment. So why would they feel that the owner of the apartment needed to be called Dracula? I'm not saying it's impossible, only that it seems unlikely. One club member owns the apartment used in most of the killings, so his mob nickname is...Dracula? That seems a little far fetched. Now what wouldn't surprise me is if it came out that some of the Demeo crew members were practicing Satanists. That would explain the fixation on blood a bit better.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #901312
12/11/16 09:35 AM
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It shouldn't be THAT much of a reach that De Meo would drink blood.

If he wasn't in the mafia he probably would have been a serial killer.

He was heading down that route before the mob gave him an outlet for it.

Name any mobster and 9 times out of 10 they have never even personally got their hands dirty on a hit, and if they did, it was either the impersonal method of shooting someone or as part of a hit team.

De Meo dismembered bodies, and by all accounts he liked doing it.

They used to casually eat slices of pizza while they sawed an arm off.

Come to think of it, Chris Rosenberg was another budding serial killer whose homicidal tendencies were harnessed by the mob.


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Re: Mafia Books [Re: Moe_Tilden] #901421
12/12/16 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
It shouldn't be THAT much of a reach that De Meo would drink blood.

If he wasn't in the mafia he probably would have been a serial killer.

He was heading down that route before the mob gave him an outlet for it.

Name any mobster and 9 times out of 10 they have never even personally got their hands dirty on a hit, and if they did, it was either the impersonal method of shooting someone or as part of a hit team.

De Meo dismembered bodies, and by all accounts he liked doing it.

They used to casually eat slices of pizza while they sawed an arm off.

Come to think of it, Chris Rosenberg was another budding serial killer whose homicidal tendencies were harnessed by the mob.


Good points Moe. What I remember reading, I think in MM, is that the Demeo crew would be eating pizza while wearing surgical gloves spattered with blood. I'm pretty sure but feel free to fact check that one.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #901423
12/12/16 06:58 AM
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@ Alfa

I think you took that book way too PERSONALLY, lol. They are CANADIAN WRITERS AND REPORTERS, this is going to skewer the perspective a little, but none of the information is made up, or blatantly fabricated, good lord man.


The book plainly states that Vito ran into a wall in Ontario, they had to hit Paniepento? I probably butchered the name....

See part of this is like so many others, you make this revolve around the entrenched strenghth of a family, and not about WHO IS CONTROLLING THE DOPE, who is importing the dope, who has the connections to the suppliers and producers, who are the distributors. Literally, NY was the distribution hub, not the Production center, or the transit point like Montreal was. And the trade is controlled from the supply end in a city like NY.

You ever read Blood and Honor? It's from the perspective of a low level soldier in the Philly family. If you listen to this guy, the whole mob world of philly was Camac and Moore, I think the corner was? And it was, to a STREET LEVEL guy like him. Read Leonettis book and AC is the center of the Philly mob universe. I bet Brooklyn was ground zero for Henry hill with the Lucheses, but we KNOW the power in the family was in Manhattan and jersey, maybe the Bronx too.

Valachis perspective was skewered, so was the guy who wrote Mob Summit. He was from upstate NY, to him Buffalo was like, the top of the mountain. You gotta read between the lines, it's like a cop debriefing an informant. He's gonna know what he knows from HIS perspective inside the life. His perspective might be totally different from a another guy involved in the same criminal organization.


You gotta take this into consideration before you read ANY mob book. Who wrote it, and what's the agenda behind it. You read Murder Machine, then read Sins of My Father and it's like literally about two different people.


It's like Sinatra said' you really don't have to take the word of Sixth Family, there are plenty of books, articles and whatnot on the subject.

Also, I HIGHLY recommend you read about Sicily, because you kinda want to make the heroin trade revolve around NY, but like I've said before, there are no opium poppies in NY. Only the NY based gangsters WHO HAD DIRECT TIES TO SICILY AND THE OPIUM FIELDS OF THE MIDDLE EAST, and Corsican refiners controlled the dope trade. You seem to think the BONNANOS ,OWNED IT, because they were the Bonnano Family?

Look at the calabrians today in NY. Do the NY families provide initial financing ( probably for fronts) and logistical support, as well as money laundering services? I'm positive. But I don't think ANYONE would say the Genovese OWN the Calabrian cocaine trade. How would they, if they don't have a relationship with Colombian producers? John Roberts was mafia royalty, and he didn't kick up much to his uncles. HE was in with the Colombians. Not the Gambino family.

The Gambinos have a larger stake, but they have DIRECT TIES to South America, AND Sicily, AS WELL as the NY base.

Luciano's domination of drugs wasn't due to the fact he was in NY, and the Maseria family owned the dope trade ( that to me is the critical flaw of you analysis..) it was due to the fact HE HAD CONTACTS IN CHINA, first through Rothstein, then on his own. It wasn't a MAFIA THING, ( Not until he got deported, and even then you couldn't say it was a LUCIANO FAMILY thing, cause Lucky was supplying Costa Nostra as a whole, well him and Coppola..)I seriously think it's the major racket he brought to the table, not fuckin whiskey. Who couldn't import whisky back then?





@ Moe

That is a great book, but a book I always found very confusing.
WERE THE GUYS CASSO WACKED OUT RATS FOR REAL? The author seems to think so, ( perspective, see?) but a lot of mob historians and researchers say he was branding guys rats to kill em. What's the truth?
( I always wanted to get Pizzaboys take on that book, never remembered..)

Also, to the author, Kaplan was a fuckin criminal mastermind, but I've heard others say he was basically Cassos lackey. Again, WHATS THE TRUTH?

I coulda sworn they called the guy Dracula because he was pale as fuck, but with that crew, who knows. But at the same time, again WHOES WRITING THIS? A cop, who want to make these guys look as sinister as possible for his book. Not a disparagement to the work, but this is just how it goes.

Try Mafia Inc, or Business or Blood...

Last edited by CabriniGreen; 12/12/16 08:07 AM.
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #901424
12/12/16 07:11 AM
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Also Alfa, I know at one point you were enjoying the book. But I don't think you get that the BONNANO FAMILY, that controlled the trade was Joe Bon-nano, Carmine Galante, John Bonaventre, Frank Gafafolo, and only Bonnano and Galante were even still in the states. Plus the Maggadino clan. The Detroit guy, and then it was the Sicilian contingent. Actually I left out Luciano and Coppola, but that's a whole other can of worms...

This is why Galante was so important when he got out. The closest Galante guy left on the street was who, Frank Mari? Who got killed. Then the Gambinos really started to muscle in.

I think you should look at a history of the DRUG TRADE, in general.


Last edited by CabriniGreen; 12/12/16 08:21 AM.
Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #901425
12/12/16 07:13 AM
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@ Sinatra

Marlo's last scene on the Wire, where he gets cut and taste the blood....

Re: Mafia Books [Re: Turi Giuliano] #901426
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@ Lee Lamothe

Pleasure to have you on the boards!!

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