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Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #896359
10/16/16 02:08 PM
10/16/16 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Seems to be a revenge killing that could be related back to Vito Rizzuto's return in 2012.


He was Vito's closest friend.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896368
10/16/16 05:25 PM
10/16/16 05:25 PM
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http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justic...-sa-demeure.php

Translation:

CHRISTIANE DESJARDINS
La Presse
It was 5:25 p.m. on this sunny Saturday in October. Vincenzo Spagnolo and his wife were in their home Vimont. Someone rang the doorbell.The man of 65, former right hand of the deceased godfather Vito Rizzuto, went to open the door. To his misfortune, he was shot several times. At least eight, which left him with no chance.
This is, in summary, is what happened Saturday on Antoine-Forestier Street, according to a source. The suspect is a man with dark skin of about 25, who was wearing a black coat with a hood. The Sûreté du Québec, however, refused to confirm or deny this information.
The assassination of Vincenzo Spagnolo is in what appears to be the systematic extermination of the Sicilian mafia. Earlier this year in May, Rocco Sollecito met the same fate. A month earlier, in March, it was Lorenzo Giordano that had been eliminated.
Mr. Spagnolo was very close to the big boss of the Mafia, Vito Rizzuto, before he dies of natural causes in hospital in December 2013. Mr. Spagnolo is one of those who welcomed Mr. Rizzuto in Toronto during his return to Canada in 2012. the latter was returning home after serving six years in prison in the US for his involvement in the murders of three mobsters committed in 1981 in New York.
Mr. Spagnolo has owned halls, including Roma Buffet. Reportedly, he was silent owner Romcafé Laval, where Vito Rizzuto was holding his headquarters in 2012 and 2013, during the bloody resumption of power. Mr. Spagnolo also controlled, at least until recently, Bellerose coffee, another stronghold of Sicilian Clan in Laval. It was the target of a Molotov cocktail, a few weeks ago. In Montreal, the Empire bar, another stronghold of the Rizzuto, was also the target of Molotov cocktails


Last edited by Ciment; 10/16/16 05:37 PM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896369
10/16/16 05:48 PM
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Mob expert Antonio Nicaso told CJAD News one thing's not clear.
"If this is an internal war between what remains of the Rizzuto crime family or it's something guided or inspired from another criminal organization who tried to gain more power in Montreal", said Nicaso. Nicaso added external crime groups trying to expand their power include, organized crime in Ontario, the Hells Angels or other street gangs.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #896381
10/16/16 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Seems to be a revenge killing that could be related back to Vito Rizzuto's return in 2012.


I think you're right. I also think that a lot of the murders during certain periods of the war are revenge killings. Which could mean more retaliatory attacks, a recent example of which might be the two attacks on Solid Gold, which was Moreno Gallo's old stomping grounds; other future retaliatory attacks, of course, would be more murders that have yet to be avenged. The guys in Montreal often seem ready to pull the trigger and to avenge murders relatively quickly or at least when the opportunity presents itself (which may mean a few years later).

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896383
10/16/16 07:28 PM
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Last edited by Ciment; 10/16/16 07:32 PM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Hollander] #896388
10/16/16 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Hollander
Mob expert Antonio Nicaso told CJAD News one thing's not clear.
"If this is an internal war between what remains of the Rizzuto crime family or it's something guided or inspired from another criminal organization who tried to gain more power in Montreal", said Nicaso. Nicaso added external crime groups trying to expand their power include, organized crime in Ontario, the Hells Angels or other street gangs.


The fall of the Rizzuto dynasty, or le clan sicilien, was first mentioned in newspaper articles in early 2010, correct? And is now being written about again in the media. But the attacks on members of the Montreal Mafia hierarchy over the years of the most recent war have claimed victims who were non-Sicilians in the group, i.e., Rocco Sollecito (the leader of the so-called "Sicilian clan"?!) and Lorenzo Giordano. And many of us have speculated since 2010 or 2011 that Francesco Arcadi (Calabrian) has had a target on his back all these years because of, among other possible reasons, his very important position in the Rizzuto organization. Sollecito and Arcadi had important connections in Italy, and one wonders whether Sollecito's died with him and whether Arcadi's are crucially relevant to a possible ascension to power once he's out of prison for good. (Daniel Renaud considers Stefano Sollecito to be officially, on paper, the current leader of the Montreal Mafia; I will write something about Stefano soon in the Rizzuto associate "Joe Bravo" resurfaces in Sicily thread.)

Keep in mind, as well, that the murder of Angelo D'Onofrio in early June of this year was considered a case of mistaken identity--the supposed target was Tony Vanelli, a stalwart in the old Cotroni-Violi group who, like many in this group, did not even have Calabrian ancestry. So then the media speculation was that anyone considered part of the old guard was being targeted by the new guard.

The leader in Montreal of the so-called "Calabrian faction," or le clan calabrais, is the French-Canadian Raynald Desjardins (who, in my opinion, still wields a lot of influence from prison).

After Paolo Violi was murdered in January 1978, the FBI identified Joe Di Maulo one to six months after Violi's death as the acting leader of the Montreal Mafia. Di Maulo's ancestry was from Campobasso in Molise, not from Calabria. So if the FBI intelligence was correct, there is a precedent that an acting leader of the Montreal Mafia has been neither Sicilian nor Calabrian for at least just a short period of time. If an individual does emerge after the current mob war as someone who will be recognized universally or by most as the Montreal godfather, he need not have Sicilian or Calabrian ancestry; I wouldn't be surprised if this person has ancestry from another region in Italy. But I doubt this will be someone from outside of Montreal.

Canada's three largest commercial marine ports are to be found in Montreal, Halifax, and Vancouver--it is the last that is the principal marine gateway into Canada, not Montreal. Although the Port of Montreal is still strategically important for Canadian organized-crime groups involved in drug trafficking, it isn't the only Canadian port used by such groups. Over the decades, the Rizzuto organization, for example, has used the Port of Halifax. The Siderno Group in the Greater Toronto Area does not need "control" of the Port of Montreal.

Some current newspaper stories about what the killing of the recently murdered Vincenzo Spagnolo means are citing Mafia inc. co-author André Cédilot's theory that the "Calabrian faction" in Montreal, along with influence from the Ontario 'ndrangheta and the Hells Angels, is behind the current mayhem. But Cédilot and his co-author are the ones who misidentified the ancestry of a number of important Montreal Mafia figures and other criminals in their 2010 book; the authors also made other significant errors that, to me, reveal a lack of understanding of the history and relationship between the Italian underworlds of Toronto and Montreal. One retired Sûreté du Québec (SQ) officer, John Galianos, is quoted in a recent article about Spagnolo's murder as follows: "It could be some of the younger guys or from the opposing group in Toronto who is trying to take over, the Paolo Violi group,” Galianos said. “His sons are in Ontario and taking care of things there, there is some sort of revenge going on.” The problem is, there is no Paolo Violi group in Toronto. The Luppino-Violi group in Hamilton is assumed to be a 'ndrina--and that's my take on it too after all these years--although it's worth noting that, significantly, Giacomo Luppino was caught saying in a bugged conversation that there are no mafia indoctrination rites or ceremonies (he was laughing at a TV portrayal of such rites).

What is laughable is that the theory of a takeover of the Montreal Mafia by Calabrian crime groups in Ontario has been strongest when Vito Rizzuto was imprisoned and after his death. So when he was alive and out of prison, the whole of the Canadian 'ndrangheta, it seems, was unable to make good on its mission to take over Montreal. Does that say something about the power of the Greater Toronto Area Siderno Group?

I am very intrigued about which individuals or groups could be behind the high-profile murders of Sollecito and Giordano because, insofar as the two killings are related--I think those two were targeted because they were on the same side but I can't be sure--the possible suggestion is that the individuals or groups behind the murders are far more powerful than Sollecito and Giordano ever were. But of course this isn't the only possibility--maybe a smaller unknown faction is responsible; maybe what is left of a certain faction in the mob war is redoubling its efforts; maybe alliances are being forged between groups previously opposed to each other. Time will tell.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896389
10/16/16 09:14 PM
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My last piece on this. Its all fucked up there fighting over greed. Theres nothing orgnized in montreal anymore. Maybe the bikers but the lcn american style is done. There just like the cartel in mexico killing over turf and shipments spots. Theres no joey merlino type guy up there recruiting young guys to prick there finger and say the magic oath. Even the guy sal the iron worker who probaly thought thts what he was going to do gun smoke buy abunch or drugs guys. And died in a river. Im not saying them other 2 mafia groups from italy are not there but the john gotti burn a saint in your hand thing is probaly a thing of the past died with rizzuto. After vito seen his father dead and sons whacked he probaly had no faith in la cosa nostra. He even hit his friend in the driveway di maulo. Thats a nono.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896391
10/16/16 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: antimafia
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Seems to be a revenge killing that could be related back to Vito Rizzuto's return in 2012.


I think you're right. I also think that a lot of the murders during certain periods of the war are revenge killings. Which could mean more retaliatory attacks, a recent example of which might be the two attacks on Solid Gold, which was Moreno Gallo's old stomping grounds; other future retaliatory attacks, of course, would be more murders that have yet to be avenged.


Are you suggesting that the attacks on Solid Gold were retaliatory attacks by the old Rizzuto group for recent murders or do I misinterpret?

It seems like we have as much clue on who's behind this as we did in 2010. Apparantly people are bringing up old theories like Paolo Violi's sons trying to take over, which I'm extremely sceptic about. I think a more viable theory is that Arcadi is making a powerplay with backing from Ontario. A more frightning theory is that Giordano, Arcadi and Sollecito were on the same side and are being killed off by another group. It feels too convenient thinking about people loyal to Desjardins and De Vito. It also seems like the old Di Maulo-Cotroni group is still on good terms with the 'Sicillians' because Carmine Vanelli was seen at Sollecito's funeral, but that may not mean much.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896393
10/16/16 09:23 PM
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I would definitely thing the violi family kids who watched there father get sniper killed at the dinner table are suspects in nicolo rizutto death its like the same exact shit 30yrs later and what a sweet revenge. But it probaly to throw the target at them also smart

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896402
10/17/16 03:11 AM
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Frank Arcadi is the boss. Frank Cotroni Jr, and Leonard Rizzuto both called peace.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896404
10/17/16 03:31 AM
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@ anti mafia

Great post, I have a couple of questions.....



You mention the different ports. The way I see it, the Montreal port was valuable when the primary destination for drugs was New York. Also, the original source was the French Connection, and Montreal does have the French component. When it became a Sicilian connection, and then later, Thai and Chinese, and Irish, and South American, this component was probably less important. When they kinda severed ties with NY, and it became about moving the drugs IN Canada and Europe, then it was only important to get the drugs INTO Canada. Might this explain why as time went on the Rizzuto clan and other crime groups use the other ports more?


On all the killings: I said before, I thought that the " Made" guys are the blood relatives, marriage alliances. Could there be a purging of the BLOOD RELATIVES more so than say, based on ethnic lines like Sicilian or Calabrian? Also' what do think about the possibility that we are seeing the different factions, ( I see you actually already kinda mentioned this as a possibility, just noticed..) switching sides back and forth? A lot of these murders seem like these guys are set up by people very close to them, the hits are TOO CLEAN.


The point you made about the Ndrangheta not making a move on Vito while he was alive, and what it says about their power? I think it says more about Vito's power to procure narcotics more than anything. He was TOO valuable to hit when he was alive, because he made too many people too much money. His connects were too solid, to the Big Circle Boys for heroin, the West End was it for Hashish? Like he was just as big in Hash as he was coke. He had his connections in Sicily, working with the Calabrians to try to build that bridge. He was TRUSTED, by the narcotics suppliers, I think his array of connects had even surpassed his fathers at that point. And he had TOO much clout with the guys moving the stuff on the street. Like take Arcadi? I don't even think guys like him would EVER deal with the street gangs and such, Vito was much more cosmopolitan, much more " Luciano-ish" for lack of a better adjective.
Edit; Were Rizzutos hash connections through Dejardins? He seemed to have some connects of his own, and connects to the Halifax port? Maybe that's why he still exercises power up there...and why he thought he could challenge the leadership..

The first point of control is the SOURCE of narcotics.
( Here is a historical parallel, I'll use gambling. In the 40s, if LCN wanted to control all the horse betting, they woulda had to have guys physically present at every track in the country, which is logistically a nightmare right? Okay apply this logic to drug corners, bars and clubs.

What was their solution, control the SOURCE of information, and thus you control all the bookies taking bets at the tracks. Now, think about it, they didn't send a massive crew to do this, they sent like Bugsy Siegal, maybe a few guys in a few key cities. Now apply this logic to narcotics and you see how the power is wielded...)

This brings me to my third question, but first consider this......
From this article...
Fly-wheel of the Drug Trade. https://www.tni.org/en/paper/rothschilds-mafia-aruba



The [BadWord]-Caruana clan has had some serious set-backs with the arrest and conviction of some of their most prominent bosses in 1996. Does this mean the clan is out of business? Prosecutor Natoli is under no illusions that the conviction of the [BadWord] brothers will mean the end of the clan's criminal activities and contends that the brothers are able to continue to organize drug transports from jail. [BadWord] and Caruana are not the kind of traffickers who smuggle the merchandise themselves, he explains: "They give the orders, they pull the strings." The highest levels of the drug trade use steady channels: solid systems of transport and tested money-laundering routes, Natoli adds. Several leading members of the clan – such as the [BadWord] sons, all called Giuseppe – remain outside prison and dozens of lower ranking foot-soldiers are still available. (82)

Natoli's fear that the clan continues to play a major role in the drug trade even though the principal leaders are in prison, proved to be correct. During the trial in Palermo, one of the defendants, the fugitive Alfonso Caruana, turned out to be the central organizer of a network that smuggled eleven metric tons of cocaine to Italy from 1991-94. The ring was dismantled in March 1995 in Northern Italy.

Caruana brought together the cocaine producers of the Colombian Cartels with the Italian distributors, six 'ndrangheta families the Calabrian variant of the Mafia. Once again the [BadWord]-Caruana family was "the fly-wheel of the drug trade and the indispensable link between suppliers and distributors." (83)

What I noticed is that the Caruanas and [BadWord] were securing coke for the whole of Cosa Nostra, as well as the Siderno group.


How important are the Caruana-[BadWord] in all of this? They run the Venuzelan family right? ( Apparently there are like HUNDREDS of wholesalers operating there..)And we know they had tremendous influence in the Antilles. And then I see reports of Avanlanches of coke coming through the Dutch ports. Who is organizing all that coke?

It seems their narcotics business got so large it outgrew being simply a Sicilian business. These guys are TOO globalized it seems. Dealing with Sicilians only, means you only control NY. Dealing with Calabrians means you control, Canada, and Europe, AND Australia. And they can STILL cut deals with whoever is left of the Sicilian, or Montreal, or what ever lines they are distinguished by be it geography or ethnicity. I know people think of the Rizzutos as a Bonnano subsidiary. But I gotta ask, were they actually a subsidiary of the Caruana- [BadWord] family, that was simply overtaken by the wider influence of Ndrangheta? And then the Caruanas made deals with Ndrangheta and the remnants of the Rizzuto group?

I appreciate any thoughts from everyone....

Last edited by CabriniGreen; 10/17/16 05:18 AM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896405
10/17/16 03:38 AM
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Also, even though it's the wrong thread, I see these guys organized like this....



Crime Corporation- Shareholders= Blood Relatives

This company never goes "Public" so to speak, and you can't buy shares really.


Edit: You can acquire shares, but only if you control a large apparatus for distribution, (it's more like a contract between a supplier and retailer though, like a mattress manufacturer agreeing to supply Sears...) But sometimes the company fully integrates and develops their own, think LCN importing zips for their own distribution. Control a reliable method for transportation and or importation, (Again, this is more like a contract between companies. Sometimes a company will fully integrate and just develop their own, like Amazon getting their own trucks instead of hiring UPS. Think Cosa Nostra using the Teamsters to truck dope in the 40s -50s. Have an additional source for supply, (although this will most times put you in direct competition) or be able to launder all the money.
But you can do a " Hostile" takeover lol


Crime Ceo= Street Boss

Crime COO= Underboss

Crime VPs = Lieutenants

Assassins are a lot like lawyers, kept on retainer, but loyal to a dollar.

Everyone else is an employee. And replaceble, indeed even the CEOs and COOs are replaceable. The only ones who aren't, are the blood relatives, which is why they all gotta die....in a hostile crime corporate take over....

Maybe I think too much lol, any thoughts?

Last edited by CabriniGreen; 10/17/16 03:48 AM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896406
10/17/16 03:49 AM
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Who is Leonard Rizzuto?

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896411
10/17/16 04:50 AM
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Leonardo Rizzuto, son of Vito Rizzuto.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896412
10/17/16 05:37 AM
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Good post antimafia, with this murder I think we also have to look at Sicily.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896430
10/17/16 08:46 AM
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The best website about global organized crime & the Mafia: http://www.gangstersinc.org - Since 2001 - Want to write for us? Drop me a DM/mail!
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896435
10/17/16 12:26 PM
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I'm still thinking these killings are coming from the Desjardins side. I'm thinking Arcadi and the Sicilians are on the same side here. I think he knows that's his best chance of taking over again. After the conspiracy to kill Desjardins with Mom Boucher, I don't think the Hells have turned on them either. That is another reason Desjardins is having no problems pushing his trial back, he gets a day and a half per day served and he still has people killing for him. I have no doubt that he wields power still from prison. He proved that the first time he was locked up. Now it will be interesting to see if the HA and the Sicilians can get to him behind bars like they wanted to though. Surely the conspiracy pissed him off and at least killed a few in revenge or tried to anyways.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: dixiemafia] #896441
10/17/16 12:58 PM
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TVA Nouvelles in Quebec is reporting that a possible motive for Vincenzo Spagnolo's murder this past Saturday is that he was in possession of information that includes a list of individuals that Vito Rizzuto wanted killed. The article to which I've linked below is accompanied by a video in which crime reporter Félix Séguin elaborates about a Book of Truth that Spagnolo was in possession of--I'm still trying to figure out whether the book is meant literally or figuratively, as the article mentions that Spagnolo took certain secrets to his grave. In the interest of fairness, I should mention that Séguin has heard from sources that the Toronto-area 'ndrangheta (i.e., the Siderno Group) is possibly behind the murders of Rizzuto loyalists in the last little while; Seguin has expressed this theory on Twitter as well. I'm afraid I don't buy it.

I owe a few posters some replies--I'll try to answer in due course.

http://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2016/10/17/le-gardien-du-livre-des-grands-secrets-reduit-au-silence

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896443
10/17/16 01:27 PM
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If he does have that list, I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only one. If Vito knew he was dying like has been reported, surely he knew if Leonardo would have taken a role in the family or not. Also he trusted the Sollecito's enough that they would have probably had the same info as Spagnolo. I think it's more likely he was killed because of who he was close to than a list.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #896444
10/17/16 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
Frank Arcadi is the boss. Frank Cotroni Jr, and Leonard Rizzuto both called peace.


I call bullshit.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: dixiemafia] #896457
10/17/16 03:43 PM
10/17/16 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
I'm still thinking these killings are coming from the Desjardins side. I'm thinking Arcadi and the Sicilians are on the same side here. I think he knows that's his best chance of taking over again. After the conspiracy to kill Desjardins with Mom Boucher, I don't think the Hells have turned on them either. That is another reason Desjardins is having no problems pushing his trial back, he gets a day and a half per day served and he still has people killing for him. I have no doubt that he wields power still from prison. He proved that the first time he was locked up. Now it will be interesting to see if the HA and the Sicilians can get to him behind bars like they wanted to though. Surely the conspiracy pissed him off and at least killed a few in revenge or tried to anyways.


Desjardins was the true leader of the murderous rebellion against the Rizzuto clan, this is what the turncoat Giuseppe Carbone told a court in Palermo last week.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896458
10/17/16 03:45 PM
10/17/16 03:45 PM
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It is not the hit list that is the problem.I also agree that others must have that list. The problem is the secrets of the Mafia that is in that book. Further in the news article it mentions that those secrets could upset or unbalance the order of the Mafia. What is not said in the article, are those secrets local to the Montreal area or does it expose other people from Ontario,NY or abroad.
The next question I ask myself is why would anyone have that information in a book and for what purpose ?

Last edited by Ciment; 10/17/16 04:00 PM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896459
10/17/16 03:55 PM
10/17/16 03:55 PM
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Amazing to think in the past decade the Montreal mob war victims number in amount to the size of the Columbo family.

That gives size and scale to the conflict.
That one of the five families has (metaphorically) essentially been wiped out.


MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: SonnyBlackstein] #896472
10/17/16 06:11 PM
10/17/16 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
Amazing to think in the past decade the Montreal mob war victims number in amount to the size of the Columbo family.

That gives size and scale to the conflict.
That one of the five families has (metaphorically) essentially been wiped out.


Depends on the numbers you're speaking of. A recent article list 40 murders, but that same number was also brought up years earlier and so seems to be repeated and outdated. Also, while some of the killings are related many probably are not. Chaos started to erupt not long after Vito Rizzuto was incarcerated. People saw that as an opportunity to settle old scores.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896528
10/18/16 10:10 AM
10/18/16 10:10 AM
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eurodave Offline
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Seems like a deja-vu doesn't it? A throwback to 2009 when the Rizzuto clan was under heavy attack.

Looking back, nobody knew what was going on. Who was killing such heavy hitters who seemed pretty much untouchable...Nick Jr, Nicolo, Paolo, Agostino and so forth....The media was using as they are today, the Calabrian clan, to describe the main rival faction. Years have passed and we now know that besides the Rizzuto top 6 leaders, Montreal had a rather large opposing group attacking the weakened Rizzuto clan which consisted of:

- Desjardins-Mirrarchi and friends
- Di Maulo-Cotroni group
- Arcuri-Montagna-Lopresti and co.
- De Vito and friends
- Other various groups, Scoppa, Gallo, Mucci..

Was the Ndrangheta involved? Maybe indirectly and on a support level basis. Many of the players above were documented as having visited leading figures in the Siderno group between 06-12'. But it may be possible that Montreal gangsters were reaching out to them vs the other way around.

I believe that the current situation in many ways replicates the early 80's when Vic Cotroni passed away. It was then that the Rizzuto family officially took over and prospered, even though the Violi brothers had already been wiped out. Whoever is trying to eliminate the old guard, has mainly done so because Vito passed away and what's left of his group no longer holds the same power.

Clearly local players are the main culprits here, Siderno boys will not be sending men here to pull the trigger but their involvement will be one of capital and logistics. Most likely, the current opposing faction is the remaining players of the former alliance that attempted to overthrow the Rizzuto family.

Time will tell.

**Disclaimer** to those who are not familiar with Quebec media and news, the Calabrian faction or Sicilian mafia are terms used by the media to describe opposing factions, similar to Bloods vs Crips. In reality, they are neither accurate since both groups have leaders or members from various parts of Italy. Traditionally the Sicilian faction is referred as the Rizzuto group, while the Calabrian faction is a mixture of the old Di-Maulo-Cotroni and others. Recently, some reporters are starting to make the distinction between the Calabrian faction in Montreal and the Siderno group.

The true Sicilian Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta would almost never have a direct war, such things don't happen in Rome or Milan where both operate together. They are close and work together in Italy and Europe where they share and split territories accordingly to avoid conflict and all out bloodshed.

Typically the top leaders in each group will meet and discuss matters before wars breakout. Montreal's current situation seems messy but many decisions are taken both a local level and from abroad.

Last edited by eurodave; 10/18/16 10:27 AM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: eurodave] #896532
10/18/16 10:47 AM
10/18/16 10:47 AM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: eurodave
Seems like a deja-vu doesn't it?


That's the best way to describe it, lol. Just like back then we'll probably learn more about these new (or old?), emerging players a year from now when the air has cleared. The question is: will this story ever end? It's an ongoing cycle of killings and revenge killings and revenge killings of revenge killings and so on. The police are playing a decisive part in this as well, because after a major arrest the opposing group starts cleaning house. Good post.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #896533
10/18/16 10:59 AM
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eurodave Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: eurodave
Seems like a deja-vu doesn't it?


That's the best way to describe it, lol. Just like back then we'll probably learn more about these new (or old?), emerging players a year from now when the air has cleared. The question is: will this story ever end? It's an ongoing cycle of killings and revenge killings and revenge killings of revenge killings and so on. The police are playing a decisive part in this as well, because after a major arrest the opposing group starts cleaning house. Good post.


The Violi to Rizzuto transition took a few years I believe, between mid 70's to Cotroni's death in 83'. Because these situations are so complex and so many players are involved, both italian and non-italian, it takes time and strategy to implement a new order.

That being said, the Rizzuto clan is looking rather thin, in jail and weaker than ever. There is no more Vito. Maybe this time it will be a final extermination.

Like you said, the Police play a bigger role than most give credit. They knew all along that Desjardins was a huge factor in the rebellion as was Montagna. They followed them everywhere. By cleaning up the Rizzuto's again in 2015, they must of known that they pratically sealed their fate.

For some odd reason, I have a feeling the Scoppa brother's are making some moves. Rarely do you hear about them, but they wield a lot of power.

Last edited by eurodave; 10/18/16 11:08 AM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: Sonny_Black] #896535
10/18/16 11:08 AM
10/18/16 11:08 AM
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antimafia Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: antimafia
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Seems to be a revenge killing that could be related back to Vito Rizzuto's return in 2012.


I think you're right. I also think that a lot of the murders during certain periods of the war are revenge killings. Which could mean more retaliatory attacks, a recent example of which might be the two attacks on Solid Gold, which was Moreno Gallo's old stomping grounds; other future retaliatory attacks, of course, would be more murders that have yet to be avenged.


Are you suggesting that the attacks on Solid Gold were retaliatory attacks by the old Rizzuto group for recent murders or do I misinterpret?

It seems like we have as much clue on who's behind this as we did in 2010. Apparantly people are bringing up old theories like Paolo Violi's sons trying to take over, which I'm extremely sceptic about. I think a more viable theory is that Arcadi is making a powerplay with backing from Ontario. A more frightning theory is that Giordano, Arcadi and Sollecito were on the same side and are being killed off by another group. It feels too convenient thinking about people loyal to Desjardins and De Vito. It also seems like the old Di Maulo-Cotroni group is still on good terms with the 'Sicillians' because Carmine Vanelli was seen at Sollecito's funeral, but that may not mean much.


Two pages back I posted a link to Daniel Renaud's October 4 article about the Solid Gold attacks. Here's the story link in case you haven't read the article:

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justic...s-criminels.php

According to the article, a source revealed that after Gallo's murder, Solid Gold passed into Stefano Sollecito's hands. The article also mentions that this information has not been corroborated by police. If the source's information is accurate, maybe one or more people close to Gallo were behind the attacks for a number of reasons, e.g., anger over Gallo's murder, resentment arising from losing the establishment.

If the information isn't accurate, the attacks may have been committed by people who were upset with Gallo's having sided with Montagna.

Toward the end of the article is the suggestion that because of the Solid Gold attacks, law enforcement will be looking into whether and how the murders of Rocco Sollecito and Moreno Gallo are related.

You don't have to read the rest of my post because you will have previously read my thoughts on the 'ndrangheta operating in the Greater Toronto Area.

Below I've quoted from Nick Rose's July 27, 2015 article for VICE News, "With Sicilian Mafia in Rapid Decline, Just Who Is Running the Mob in Montreal?"

With the rise of Haitian street gangs, the imminent release of numerous Hells Angels from prison, and rival Italian factions, there is no shortage of conspiracy theories surrounding Vito Rizzuto's replacement. Chief among those theories is that the Ontario-based Calabrian mafia, also known as the 'Ndrangheta, is moving in and getting revenge after having been violently pushed out of the city by Vito's father in the 1970s.

But this line of thinking is deeply flawed, said RCMP Staff Sergeant Chris Knight, because it assumes that Vito Rizzuto can even be replaced.

"No one's got the credibility, no one's got the clout and certainly no one has the charisma that Vito Rizzuto had—and I've met him—to make allies out of enemies. No one has that right now," Knight told VICE.

Knight has been with the RCMP for 34 years and works with local, provincial and international law enforcement to monitor organized crime in Quebec. His squad has seen no sign of rival Italian gangs moving to replace the Rizzuto's, as certain media and observers have speculated.

"We haven't seen attempts or power moves from Hamilton or Toronto on establishments or persons here. And we haven't received any information on the street to that effect either. It's a myth. I've always heard these things about New York and Toronto controlling Montreal but nothing could be further from the truth."

Antonio Nicaso agrees. He has authored 27 books about organized crimes and acted as a consultant for the government on these matters. In his most recent book Business or Blood he writes extensively about the final years of Rizzuto's life and the implications of a post-Vito world.


I think most of us realize that law-enforcement officials, whether active or retired, have conflicting opinions about various facets of the Montreal mob war, e.g., the roots, the causes, the factions, the behind-the-scenes players, and so on. The same can be said about organized-crime authors and crime reporters, who when writing their books and articles about the Montreal Mafia are citing the aforementioned officials.

I can't and won't dismiss the very real possibility that, a number of years ago, there were individuals in the Siderno Group in the Greater Toronto Area--not just the leaders--who supported and actively contributed to a toppling of the Montreal Mafia hierarchy. But my opinion is that there wasn't unanimous agreement in the GTA Siderno Group about attempting a takeover, providing support to Vittorio Mirarchi (and others?), and severing ties with the Rizzuto organization (with Vito in particular); I am sure there were many other areas of disagreement. A divided GTA Siderno Group is not only plausible but also very likely, given the internal frictions since mid-2008 that have been documented by antindrangheta investigators in Calabria and law-enforcement officials in the GTA (and you might include here the high-profile murder of Carmine Verduci in April 2014 if you don't think it was an act of Vito's revenge). If you look at the fate of some of the seven leaders of the GTA Siderno Group since their names were revealed in the arrest warrants of the 2010 Operazione Il Crimine antindrangheta operation, you would be right to wonder whether there have been shifts in the balance of power in the camera di controllo of the GTA Siderno Group and who has replaced the more influential individuals not on the board, i.e., Carmelo Bruzzese and Verduci. The Project OPhoenix investigation that culminated in June of last year either reveals a reorganization in the GTA Siderno Group (Verduci and Pino Ursino were said to head their own groups) or muddies the waters. In any event, I think that there were leaders in the GTA Siderno Group who took a shot at trying to influence events in Montreal, ultimately failed, and then worried about getting clipped after Vito got out of prison and even after he died. If you believe the GTA Siderno Group took an active role in killing Paolo Renda, Agostino Cun-trera, and Nick Rizzuto Sr. for the purpose of taking over Montreal, you have to stop writing how low-profile the 'ndrangheta in the GTA is. Or that the GTA Siderno Group in Ontario is not prone to violence the way the Montreal Mafia is in Quebec.

Many people overestimate the power of the GTA Siderno Group here in Canada--and this comes from me, someone who has researched this group more than any other Canadian crime group--not understanding that this group has had to interact with American LCN and Sicilian CN groups in Canada and the US for approximately 60 years at this point. A good part of this interaction has involved respecting protocols and territories of operation; a good chunk of the interaction has been criminal collaboration. The GTA Siderno Group is not some exotic drug-trafficking criminal group. Some of its leaders have been engaged in loansharking for more than 40 years.

Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: antimafia] #896537
10/18/16 11:17 AM
10/18/16 11:17 AM
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eurodave Offline
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This is mostly accurate, but to undermine their influence is also naive. From various sources, we've seen major players in Montreal over the last few years take the 401 and visit local GTA gangsters.

De Vito did it, Piccirilli, Montagna, Mirarchi...etc...

Ironically you can't say Remo Commisso or Antonio Coluccio were seen multiple times hanging out in Montreal. It seems that Montreal mobsters were visiting Toronto. What for and why?

High profile murders usually require some sort of protocal and authorization. The GTA boys probably don't have a direct hand in what's going on, but as of late, with their own re-organization, I would assume they continue to play an external role which is not negligable.

That being said, made members of the Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta divide territories and avoid conflict, both in the Americas and Europe.

You may believe that the Ndrine in Ontario are not significant, but on a global scale, the Sicilians buy coke from Calabrians, a reversal of what it was 20 years ago when they would go to people such as Caruana for large quantities. Various indictments and arrests have demonstrated how Cosa Nostra cells from different parts of Sicily, IE: Siragusa, Catania, Messina and Palermo are buying coke from Calabrian importers, mainly families from the Ionian side and the Gioia Tauro region.

If this happens in Italy and Europe, why can't this exact system replicate itself in Canada?

Last edited by eurodave; 10/18/16 03:32 PM.
Re: Why the mob war in Montreal may be far from over [Re: eurodave] #896547
10/18/16 03:10 PM
10/18/16 03:10 PM
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Ciment Offline
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Originally Posted By: eurodave
This is mostly accurate, but to undermine their influence is also naive. From various sources, we've seen major players in Montreal over the last few years take the 401 and visit local GTA gangsters.

De Vito did it, Piccirilli, Montagna, Mirarchi...etc...

Ironically you can't say Remo Commisso or Antonio Coluccio were seen multiple times hanging out in Montreal. It seems that Montreal mobsters were visiting Toronto. What for and why?

High profile murders usually require some sort of protocal and authorization. The GTA boys probably don't have a direct hand in what's going on, but as of late, with their own re-organization, I would assume they continue to play an external role which is not negligable.

That being said, made members of the Cosa Nostra and Ndrangheta divide territories and avoid conflict, both in the Americas and Europe.



Excellent posts Eurodave. Your views and assessment on your last three posts are very identical to mine.

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