It's often assumed that Big Paul only began to take over the family around 1975 as Carlo's health failed and he needed someone to manage the family day to day. But this FBI report from February 1967 - long before Carlo had any major health woes, arguably at the height of his power - says differently:

"On February 28, 1967, NY T-25 advised that a meeting was held on Monday night, February 27, 1967, at the residence of LEO GRILLO, 1235 54th Street, Brooklyn, New York, at which approximately 19 members of the Gambino 'family' were present. JAMES FAILLA was introduced as the "Caporegima" for half of the old regime of JOSEPH GENNARO.

The meeting was presided over by PAUL CASTELLANO, who advised the group that he was "Acting Boss" for CARLO GAMBINO in all matters. CASTELLANO pointed out that because of increased pressures by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and other law enforcement agencies on GAMBINO, CASTELLANO would act more often on LCN matters for the "boss."

In addition, ANIELLO DELLACROCE was present and was introduced to the group as UNDERBOSS in the "family."

JOSEPH GALLO was also present and he was introduced as the acting "Consulieri" for the "family" because of the illness and lack of mobility on the part of JOSEPH RICCOBONO.

CASTELLANO stated there was now a closer coordination of the "family" membership and pointed out that in addition to SABBATO MURO being excluded from the "family", ANDREW TORREGROSSA, and his son, JOHN, were eliminated from the "family." CASTELLANO pointed out that all members were to have nothing to do with the BONANNO "family" membership, and stated that their leadership is still "up in the air." Informant advised that the COLOMBO "family" was entirely subservient to CARLO GAMBINO.

CASTELLANO also pointed out that there would be no trouble with the LUCHESE "family" in view of the relationship between GAMBINO and LUCHESE, and in view of the serious illness of THOMAS LUCHESE.

According to the informant, CASTELLANO indicated that CARLO GAMBINO, at the present time, was the most powerful "Boss" in LCN."

It seems Paul de facto ran the family for almost a decade before Carlo died, and in a sense, the Castlleno reign can be looked at as spanning from 1967 to 1985 rather than it just being that Castellano was picked out of the blue in 1975 because Carlo was sick and he was his brother-in-law. It would seem that Castellano's leadership as Acting Boss from 1967 onward impressed Carlo. That, combined with his genteel manner and the fact that Dellacroce seemed to attract the attention of the Feds (having been arrested and even in jail when Carlo died) might've influenced Carlo picking Paul, moreso than any nepotism.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...99&tab=page

So Nino Gaggi was acting skipper or skipper in 67?

Good find JackieAprile. Thanks for posting. What happened to Andrew and his son John Torregrossa? Were they shelved or whacked? And what caused the Gambino to not recognize the Bonannos?

That's besides the point..i am suprised there was no conflict ,bein' that Neils rowdy (Manhattan) crews put up w/ paul's straightlaced ways...if this whole thing rings true.

It makes sense and explains why Carlo never faced a serious indictment during his remaining years. This isn't the first time I heard this, and I forgot where I read it, but I remember reading from another source that Castellano was AB as early as '67. Carlo was still alive at this point and fairly healthy, he just handed most administration duty to his cousin to avoid heat, with Carlo still relatively healthy, what possible conflict would there be with Neil? If Neil tried anything it would essentially be him going against Carlo, I doubt he wanted that.

Mmmmm..never thought about it in that light..good point.

What did Paul mean about the Bonanno family when he said their leadership is still "up in the air"? Was he referring to the troubles Joe Bonanno was facing within his own family (the Bananas War)?

CASTELLANO pointed out that all members were to have nothing to do with the BONANNO "family" membership, and stated that their leadership is still "up in the air.

Most likely, I'd say so. While the Bananas War was somewhat over, it had ramifications for that family for years to come, their boss situation was still in flux, and I don't think that they had one boss at the time whom was able to represent them on the commission. Not to mention it is Paul Castellano , Carlo's cousin, whom was on Joe Bonannos hit list and who basically orchestrated the Bananas War, so all of that probably , maybe had a lot to do with Castellano's statement then. In '67 specifically, they were planning on dismantling the Bonanno family as a whole and transferring their members to other families. There was a series of meetings where this was discussed, they then resulted on a plan to place someone else, from another family as the boss of the Bonannos , they had several candidates and Carmine Tramunti was the leading candidate, which can be seen a few pages later in this same report. So it makes sense that during that time , the Bonannos would be persona non Grata while they decided what to do with the Bonanno family. Could you imagine if that had happened? That would've made Tommy Lucchese the most powerful boss in America, as he would've essentially had his number 2 heading the Bonanno family.

Its also interesting that he said that the Colombo family was completely subservient to Carlo specifically, not him, or "The Gambinos", but to Carlo specifically. Which I think points to Joe Colombo himself being subservient to Carlo. Which I think lends credence to the theory of Carlo being behind the shooting that comatosed Colombo, and orchestrating it to making it appear that Gallo did it in a lot of peoples eyes, after Colombo defied Carlo by still having the second Italian American rally or whatever it was called and not putting an end to his Civil Rights league. Which if true, only adds to Carlo's genius as a mafioso.

From reading the patriarcA files it was a order given to all familys dont do business with the bonanos. Ray told all his capo after joe wouldnt come in and faked his kidnapping. Cool file guess jimmy brown was acting ub when neil was indicted for tax shit around 1973. I wonder why they kicked them out the fmily to and didnt kill them? Did they beg for there lives. Did they buy there buttons or something. Seems like killing was the way back then.

Sam the Plumber DeCavalcante, Jimmy Fratianno and even some of Bonanno's own men shared the same view as Patriarca - Bonanno pulled off this phony kidnapping stunt to avoid the Commission (after the plot to kill off Big Pauly's cousin Carlo was exposed) and to avoid a grand jury subpoena, but this stunt ultimately backfired on him.

I'll echo this.

SinatraClub check out page 302 where it mentions that Gambino was instrumental in organizing AID with Colombo.

Tommy Lucchese and Carlo were for sure the commision leaders of the 60s.Lucchese familly probablly never had more that 150 members at the the time but it was all quality.White and blue colar crimes, unions all the way.

Me three.

This leaves me wondering how reliable NY T25 was. I've found that when encountering off-the-wall things that contradict other confirmed sources, it helps to see what an informant is sahying in other reports. If it is off-the-wall stuff or vague rumors, then it is better to discount it.

This makes it seem that NY T 25 was in the room when this meeting went down, always a good sign. Has anyone encountered NY T25 in other documents during this period?

"Bonanno pulled off this phony kidnapping stunt to avoid the Commission (after the plot to kill off Big Pauly's cousin Carlo was exposed) and to avoid a grand jury subpoena, but this stunt ultimately backfired on him."

I've come around to this view, and I think he was more afraid of Maggaddino and the commission than a subpoena, they were dead serious about having him killed if they did not get the right answers from him when they called him to that meeting.

I did read a dog's age ago that in around late 1966/early '67 Gambino briefly relocated to FL because of heat from the Feds, and this would correspond with Paul being in charge in early '67. Also, the informer's other info lines up...Neil became Underboss in '67 and Joe Gallo became Consulieri in 1967 as well. It's very likely this meeting was among the higher-ups of the family to discuss the new family structure. And it's likely that Paul remained Acting Boss as Carlo became a virtual recluse after this period. By the 1970s was he even really seen that often outside of his usual public events? He probably put Paul in charge both to test Paul's leadership skills, and to throw the Feds off the scent (IE, the old Don has retired, let's focus on the new guy).

Also, Paul being Acting Boss from 1967 forward would tie into why a lot of Neil's guys weren't happy with his being named official Boss - they already saw a taste of what dealing with him in charge would be like, and didn't like it.

It also shows that as early as 1967, Carlo was looking to the future - white collar crimes and a lower profile.

Neil wasn't his old time buddy like has been portrayed - he only became Underboss in 1967 because the existing Underboss couldn't do it anymore. And even then, he was in and out of jail.

The meeting was supposedly held to discuss the heat between Jimmy Brown and Joe Gennaro and the splitting of Gennaro's crew. Gennaro had arguably the largest crew in the family, which included James Failla. The crew was split up with a bunch of guys going under Failla and others staying to remain under Gennaro. That was the main purpose of the meeting, if my recollections are correct.

@ hoodlum and @sinatra

It's interesting you say that hoodlum, I've always thought the same thing, that Dellacroce was in charge of a " Manhattan faction", but in reality, posters on here corrected me, he had three crews roughly, I forget, Caizza? Is that his name guys?

Also, I've long been of the opinion that Luchesse was the prime mover of his time period, Carlo and Vito had bigger families, but they both needed Luchesses backing to make the moves they made, on top of that, Lucheese had usurped Costellos position as the mobs prime politico in NY, following Costellos dancing hands routine with the Keafauver hearings.

It's telling that the guy picked, (most likely by Luchesse) to boss the Bonnanos, would be a Luchesse guy, and a high level dope guy at that. I really believe Carlo was intent on destabilizing their drug operation, so he could set up the beginnings of what would become the Cherry Hill Gambino side of the Pizza connection.

Pretty interesting stuff, also guys, on Bonnano not making the meeting with the commission. There is another MaryFerrell, where it states that basically Bonnano was NEVER TOLD OF THE MEETING, THEN CARLO AND TOMMY WENT TO THE COMMISION AND SAID HES DUCKING US, BUT THEY NEVER TOLD HIM. It was a cunning ploy to isolate him on the commission, take away any allies he had...

I guess Lucchese was one heck of a boss, who was not just deadly, but shrewd and smart for a man of his height. Not only this, but he also commanded the respect of the wiseguys within his own family.

If I'm on the same page ,according to bananas, in his book,Zerilli & ange bruno came to inform him of the comm. wanting 2 see him but declined after Zerilli became elusive 4 the 2nd bruno-zerilli meet(they both said they would get back 2 him)..only Bruno responded,which whom J.B. considered a neophyte, therefore Bonanno considered the comm. meet obsolete ,,,sounds a likely story ,given that the man(J.B.) is a known bullshitter his whole life.

@hoodlum
I wasn't referencing the Bonnano book, this was Mary Ferrel documents, FBI wire taps,of Tommy Eboli.
Out of his own mouth he was saying the commission was duped into believing Bonnano ducked a commission meeting, I'll search for the link, I can't remember the thread....

You mean here:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post881249

I remember seeing the doc somehwere along the line also, it's a pretty amazing wiretap. Though I forgot to record where it is located.

..ohh,sorry,that's what i meant by "on the same page"..i had a feelin' i was a little lost,sorry & thanx guys,( Cabrini & Tony P.)

Thought I would resurrect this. Are there any clues as to who NY T-25 was? To have attended this high level of a meeting I would have to think he was at least a Captain.

Also, outside of the known administration, what was the Gambino Family structure in 1967? Anyone have any clues as to who all the Capos were? Any known Soldieri?

Also, was John Gotti made yet or was he still a relative unknown?

Jackie look how the fbi agents in boston did sneeky shit. They sighnd whitey up as a top echlon even thou he said no. They took info from steve flemmi and put it as whitey said it to justify 2 informants said something was true to get search warrants for wiretaps i bet nyc agents were doing stuff like that. On the tommy ryan eboli he talked on wiretaps back then saying the whole time carlo and luchese were setting joe b up in traps and starting problems he liked joe b but tommy ryan wasnt a real boss.

In the book, Sam The Plumber, Sam DeCalvacante discusses the Bonanno situation in depth with Bonanno captain, Joe "Bayonne Joe" Zicarelli. And I'm not saying this was indeed the case, but it's confirmed in that book that Bonanno went missing almost as soon as that subpeona came down. Like right after hearing about it, he was "kidnapped". It was probably a mixture of both situations that made him fake his "kidnapping".

Greg scarpa was busted an became fbis number 1 informant. He was a made guy since 1951 he new so much shit going on in the lcn but i would limit him to bk. But hay the new ray latrarca papers that came out placed a high ranking member as a every day hang around like body guard back in mid 60tys. Or it was illegal wiretaps and the feds were making up fake informants to get judges to sighn warrants cause it was illegal as fuck. If the guy who gave up all the shit on ray sr in the mid 65 hes son knows who it was. He real smart from what ive read n heard hes old but still if the freedom files come out on your father he read them. And knows how to connect all the dots.

Thought I'd bump this

Dominick Montiglio's book indicates otherwise

I think in the book by Scarpa's son it was written that the FBI agent came to his home and Scarpa decided to start ratting for the future, I may be mistaken. I no longer have the book so I can't check

A bump.