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Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? #875913
02/18/16 01:44 PM
02/18/16 01:44 PM
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Willenhall
Philip_Lombardo Offline OP
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I know that they were confusing him and Pusy with each other when the revelation came but a lot of things point to him being a rat

Pro's for being a rat
-Asking about stuff that's already been covered
-Seemingly trying to get Tony to say something incriminating
-The way he said 'Oh god' when he was called a rat, although it could easily be fear of him impending doom

Personally I would've liked to have seen more of Jimmy rather than Carlo Gervasi as a character

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #875920
02/18/16 03:10 PM
02/18/16 03:10 PM
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Ofcourse he was a rat, wasn't it obvious??

The way he kept asking Tony questions in the basement, dead give away if you ask me..


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Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #875923
02/18/16 03:17 PM
02/18/16 03:17 PM
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goombah Offline
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Originally Posted By: Philip_Lombardo
I know that they were confusing him and Pusy with each other when the revelation came but a lot of things point to him being a rat

Pro's for being a rat
-Asking about stuff that's already been covered
-Seemingly trying to get Tony to say something incriminating
-The way he said 'Oh god' when he was called a rat, although it could easily be fear of him impending doom


Personally I would've liked to have seen more of Jimmy rather than Carlo Gervasi as a character


I think the difference between Altieri & Bumpansero was length of time being an informer. Jimmy was probably turned at the raid we see on the club, whereas BP was flipped in '95. When Jimmy comes to Tony's house, he was obviously wearing a wire. Same with the meeting Jimmy called for in the beginning of the next episode.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: goombah] #876058
02/19/16 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: goombah

I think the difference between Altieri & Bumpansero was length of time being an informer. Jimmy was probably turned at the raid we see on the club, whereas BP was flipped in '95. When Jimmy comes to Tony's house, he was obviously wearing a wire. Same with the meeting Jimmy called for in the beginning of the next episode.


How did you find out that Big Pussy flipped in '95??

EDIT: Ah, I remember now, the Christmas party for the kids was in '95 when he played Santa for the kids..

Last edited by BillyBrizzi; 02/19/16 06:11 PM.

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Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #876124
02/20/16 12:35 PM
02/20/16 12:35 PM
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That's one of the things that bothers me on the show. In the flashback, it's said Pussy flipped in '95, however, the FBI agent told Pussy he's been "milking them since '98."

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #876142
02/20/16 07:46 PM
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Yes Jimmy was a rat, but he did not flip until after he was busted on weapon charges.

CleanBandit, If I am not mistaken, the agent said that to Big Pus in season two. He was an informant as well as Reymond in 95. It was one information against the other, until Jimmy flipped and backed up what Curto was feeding the feds. The FBI deduced that Pushy was holding back on then since 1998 on the true power of Tony in the family at the time.
I forget where I heard it but an CI was responsible for Anastasia and Dimeo going to prison in 95. Febby was an informant in the 1980s. That pretty much just leaves Reymond as most likely the informant whose information crippled the family in 95.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: goombah] #876939
02/28/16 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: goombah
Originally Posted By: Philip_Lombardo
I know that they were confusing him and Pusy with each other when the revelation came but a lot of things point to him being a rat

Pro's for being a rat
-Asking about stuff that's already been covered
-Seemingly trying to get Tony to say something incriminating
-The way he said 'Oh god' when he was called a rat, although it could easily be fear of him impending doom


Personally I would've liked to have seen more of Jimmy rather than Carlo Gervasi as a character


I think the difference between Altieri & Bumpansero was length of time being an informer. Jimmy was probably turned at the raid we see on the club, whereas BP was flipped in '95. When Jimmy comes to Tony's house, he was obviously wearing a wire. Same with the meeting Jimmy called for in the beginning of the next episode.


He was flipped in 98, the FBI quoted that two times.


''Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but then again the bible says to love thy enemy.'' - Frank Sinatra

''Oh, I just wish someone would try to hurt you so I could kill them for you.''
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #877306
03/03/16 10:55 PM
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I say no.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #877434
03/05/16 02:24 PM
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I think the point was not to explicitly show it, because the mob guys themselves didn't know 100%. All it matters is that he was suspicious, and that's why they popped him.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #877450
03/05/16 06:37 PM
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Jimmy wanting a sit down, so they can go over old business, was probably enough to cement his place as a rat.

After the meet, i believe its Junior and i think Tony that agree hes a rat.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #877479
03/06/16 08:01 AM
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I deduce that the rat that crippled the family in 95 goes unnamed if Raymond had done that much damage then he'd be in wit-pro

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #878464
03/16/16 08:53 AM
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He had to be a rat. If he wasn't working for the Feds then when he meet with Tony he most likely would have been talking in code to him and not asking very specific questions about old business. He also never would have called a meeting with the the entire administration of the family to go over business that has already been decided on. The way he went about it he was begging to be made an example of.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950100
08/14/18 06:56 PM
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I maybe wrong but I think Pussy set that up the raid. His eyes were very shifty once that agent got close to the pool table.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950130
08/14/18 09:38 PM
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UH YEAH,,,, He also got Jimi whacked by trying to make him look like the rat.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950701
08/18/18 06:03 PM
08/18/18 06:03 PM
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You opened my eyes. Pussy was really a piece of shit. Altieri was still a rat though!

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950887
08/20/18 10:33 PM
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Nope


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Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950889
08/20/18 10:42 PM
08/20/18 10:42 PM
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This show was good with the sleight of hand gimmicks. Jimmy Altieri walks right out of jail, and suddenly he's at Tony's asking questions about non-urgent matters involving higher ups. All the traits of someone who cut a deal. It's possible both he and Puss had flipped. We'll never know. Just like with the Russian. Heck, just like with the show's ending.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950925
08/21/18 10:49 AM
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Yes, he was a rat, no question. Showing up on Tony's and asking him those questions, calling the meeting, getting low ball bail after those guns were found in his club and he had a pistol on him......how could he not be a rat how they laid all that out in the show? The official book HBO put out (the cannon one that Chase signed off on) they state that he was indeed a rat in what's meant to be an official FBI report on Jimmy after he turned up with the rat in his mouth.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950943
08/21/18 02:58 PM
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I don't know why people always question this, it's obvious he's a rat..


The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers.
First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves.
It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.

Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared

"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"

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Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950968
08/21/18 08:18 PM
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Nah


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Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950969
08/21/18 08:27 PM
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What makes you say no, Dues? IMO it's pretty clear that he's an informant.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #950972
08/21/18 08:53 PM
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It wouldn't be unlike this show to trick the audience into thinking someone is a rat when they're not. Det. Makazian never says there's just one rat. At least I don't recall. Plus, he might not even know. We eventually find out Pussy is one, but we never know for certain that Jimmy is. I've never really thought of it, but this show relies on mystery as much as drama and comedy. They love to get the audience thinking in one direction, only to surprise them with something from the other.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: OakAsFan] #950973
08/21/18 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
It wouldn't be unlike this show to trick the audience into thinking someone is a rat when they're not. Det. Makazian never says there's just one rat. At least I don't recall. Plus, he might not even know. We eventually find out Pussy is one, but we never know for certain that Jimmy is. I've never really thought of it, but this show relies on mystery as much as drama and comedy. They love to get the audience thinking in one direction, only to surprise them with something from the other.

That's true but it would make sense that Makazian did not know that Pussy was a rat because Puss was working directly with the feds while Makazian was a local detective. So it's possible that Jimmy was working with local authorities while Puss was working with the feds. Plus I just don't see Jimmy reacting that way right before he got killed if he wasn't really snitching. He reacted like the other shoe just dropped, a guy who wasn't ratting would be surprised and immediately plead their innocence. Just feel like there are a ton of things that point towards Altieri snitching but not much that suggests he wasn't.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #951072
08/22/18 10:23 PM
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Jimmy was already in the police books for conspiracy and then he gets caught with pistols and AK47's, illegal gambling too and as Tony puts it he managed to escape those charges on low bail and out in time for dinner.. Jimmy says to Tony "you got a problem" , he says "yeah I'm working on it" to which Jimmy replies "working on what" .. if you think by those actions and conversation he isn't a rat then you need your head examined lmao

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Japseye1] #951279
08/25/18 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RollinBones
What makes you say no, Dues? IMO it's pretty clear that he's an informant.


Because I never seen him ratin

Originally Posted by OakAsFan
It wouldn't be unlike this show to trick the audience into thinking someone is a rat when they're not. Det. Makazian never says there's just one rat. At least I don't recall. Plus, he might not even know. We eventually find out Pussy is one, but we never know for certain that Jimmy is. I've never really thought of it, but this show relies on mystery as much as drama and comedy. They love to get the audience thinking in one direction, only to surprise them with something from the other.


There ya go...perfect.


Originally Posted by Japseye1
Jimmy was already in the police books for conspiracy and then he gets caught with pistols and AK47's, illegal gambling too and as Tony puts it he managed to escape those charges on low bail and out in time for dinner.. Jimmy says to Tony "you got a problem" , he says "yeah I'm working on it" to which Jimmy replies "working on what" .. if you think by those actions and conversation he isn't a rat then you need your head examined lmao


The Feds sometimes do that type of shit to get you in a Jam.
Also, if you have no record or a good lawyer and the bucks.... you can get out that quick, Fuck that.... what actions.

The entire idea of JImmy getting whacked was he was taking the heavy rap for something he did no do and PUSSY did.
This is meant to show how fucked up this way of life is.
They whack several guys before they get the right one.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #951422
08/27/18 11:35 AM
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Goldy Offline
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Ok, I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from here. He was a rat. They couldn't have made it more clear that he was a rat unless they had Tony show up at his house and find HIS actual wire too.

He's out on bail for conspiracy and gets arrested with a pistol on him and they find a whole bunch of machine guns in his club. Yet somehow he's able to get released.

He gets out and immediately goes to Tony's house and starts asking him some very suspect questions, trying to bait Tony into talking about past crimes including murder. Even after Tony flat out ignores his questioning he goes back to it and tries to get him to talk. Tony's reaction to the questioning, his comments to Jimmy and the camera work is more than a suggestion to the audience that Tony is aware of what's going on.

Calls a meeting with the capos to discuss old business.

Tries getting Junior to talk about the murder of Brendan Fillone.

When he gets ambushed by Sil and Chris and they let him know they figured out he's a rat he doesn't say "What the hell are you talking about?!?!?" he says "Mother of God!" something one would probably say if they knew they were found out and about to get shot. The game was up at that point and he knew it.

Jimmy and Pussy were both rats, we just got to see the actual reason that Jimmy flipped and everything that happened with Puss was off screen. Ray Curto, Jimmy, Pussy, Adrianna, Gene, Febby, etc. There were a few rats in the NJ crew. As far as Skip's comment about Jimmy eating the bullet for Puss, that's true he did. But that doesn't mean he wasn't also a rat. Wouldn't make much sense for the FBI to let other informants know about one another for obvious reasons. Gene didn't know that Curto was a rat and they don't confirm it for him when he asks either. And we never find out why either one of those guys were cooperators either.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #951433
08/27/18 01:44 PM
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The story revolves around the betrayal of Pussy. In order to keep the audience in suspense, they add the obviousness of Altieri being an informant to what the viewer already knows about Detective Makazian's lack of credibility, i.e,., being a gambler himself and very sloppy in his investigative work (how he handled Melfi and her date). giving both Tony and the viewer hope that the informant isn't Pussy after all. Pussy disappears. Tony, nor the viewer, has any way of knowing whether Pussy has fled town or entered the witness protection program. Makazian committed suicide, so Tony's only law enforcement source on this is gone. The episode ends with Tony standing near the water, looking out at a bridge. It's great god damned television. Plain and simple.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #952310
09/05/18 06:45 PM
09/05/18 06:45 PM
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My answer to the question originally asked via this thread : NO DOUBT ABOUT IT !!!!


"A mook---what's a mook ?" Johnny Boy Civello
Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: frankg2469] #961744
01/16/19 07:09 AM
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Plus there's a scene in one episode where Tony is sitting at kitchen table talking to Carm
and he mentions his lawyer found out about info that Jimmy gave to the Feds. I forget which episode it's in.

Re: Was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat? [Re: Philip_Lombardo] #961756
01/16/19 12:44 PM
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Yeah, I don't think there was any question of anyone being labeled a rat, that wasn't really a rat. There were those rats that he didn't know (Ray Curto, for example), and of course he used that label to obfuscate what he did to those he killed/were killed (e.g., Big Pussy, Ralphie, Richie Aprile).

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