Not a problem at all, and that isn't my intent (and my apologies). I hadn't discovered that quirk in Rose's agreement until last month. It's not an exact comparison, but what Rose did in 1989 was like pleading no contest. He took the ban, with the ability to reapply, and MLB would stop their pursuit of the matter. I think had he kept fighting the investigation, MLB would have laid down a far harsher penalty, such as a permanent ban with no opportunity to apply for reinstatement.

At 25 years of being a pariah, I think Rose's best chance for reinstatement is to quit the oblique interviews and celebrity appearances, and simply reapply. He has a great opportunity now - the All Star Game is in Cincinnati this year and there's a new commissioner.

I feel as if Rose has done enough to come clean. In 2004, he finally admitted to Selig and in an SI cover story Rose admits betting on baseball. Could it have been a more contrite apology? Sure, but it's been out there for over a decade.

BTW, with your being a Heat fan like me, did you cringe with the Tom Sizemore portrayal of Rose in that made-for-tv movie that aired on ESPN? I thought it was dreadful. It seemed like that was around the time that Sizemore was having some major issues with addiction.

He had a book coming out at the same time, so there's a bit of skepticism. Then again, for a "permanent ban," MLB never has a problem trotting him out when it suits them - the All-Century Team, the 25th anniversary of breaking Ty Cobb's record, etc.

I may have made it to the opening credits of that ESPN movie, saw it was a cariacture as best and changed the channel. That was about the same time his problems with Heidi Fleiss erupted, and he had a jail sentence around the same time for repeated drug test failures. He was in the series "RHD," another Michael Mann production, but that was swiftly cancelled becaue of Sizemore's problems. I don't believe Mann has had a network series since.

Thanks for giving more context. I had forgotten about Rose's book. That's been his issue - everything is self-serving.

MLB under Selig has been a constant hypocrisy. I am so glad he will soon be gone as the commissioner. He always struck me as someone who turned a blind eye whenever it suited his own interests. His legacy for me is being the person in charge who allowed a World Series to be cancelled. And then tried to lure fans back under false pretenses with a juiced league.

As an owner, Selig deserves credit for keeping Milwaukee a viable major league city in the wake of the Braves' relocation to Atlanta. If you look at what a disaster the Seattle Pilots were, his hard work not only allowed that franchise to survive in Milwaukee, but saved MLB from the embarrassment of having a team fold just before Opening Day.

But as a commissioner, the accolades he's receiving are unwarranted. Forget the PED mess and the 1994 strike for a minute. On his watch, he's let Jeffrey Loria gut two franchises, demonstrated disparate treatment of the Mets and Dodgers during their respective financial troubles, let conflicts of interest benefit his team, as well as the contraction controversy in 2001-02. Television revenues have skyrocketed, but I question whether that is sustainable, especially if more consumers ditch cable/satellite.

It will be interesting to see if Rob Manfred will try to set himself apart from Selig, part of which could be re-examining the Pete Rose situation. In the NBA, Adam Silver won praise by demonstrating a different approach than David Stern had, particularly with the Clippers mess.

Just noticed this, as soon as you come up with a half decent response that touches on anything i said there i'll respond .

Barry Bonds has a big head!!!!

I hope that Manfred does a better job when it comes to Rose, as well as taking teams away from owners who are just gutting or having problems. Also, Manfred will have to deal with possible change to the game so it can be sped up a bit. Like a pitch timer.

personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with a pitch timer. nor do I see anything wrong with telling a batter to quit fooling around, and get in the batters box instead of wasting so much time after every pitch, leaving the batters box, and strutting around.

the game is way to slow as it is now. it needs to be speeded up. and bam you are right , some owners don,t deserve teams.

I see nothing wrong with speeding up the game either, and yeah I just hope that Loria loses the Marlins soon.

Another thing that has been brought up would be to ban defensive shifts, so there would be more scoring.

http://www.businessinsider.com/rob-manfred-mlb-defensive-shifts-ban-2015-1

Probably. But the thing is people are so quick now to say "Well rose wasn't that bad". If the gambling problems had come out after the steroid era then everybody would he crucifying pete Rose like they are with the steroid users. Many of them used them at a time when it wasn't even illegal in baseball yet. So that's why I hate it when people say what he did wasn't as bad. People say that because it's almost already forgot the by many fans. If it was of recent memory people would have that same outlook. Also, the notion that he's a top 10 hitter of all time is ridiculous imo. He was a compiler. Still a great player that's hof worthy but if he played with the Yankees he'd automatically still be getting killed by the media today and would be viewed as overrated.

I don't know if his gambling hurt the Reds, but I can make a case that his managing the Reds (and putting himself in the lineup) in 1985-86 might have cost them at least one playoff chance.

Yes, the whole thing is rediculous.

Put him in.

as some would say "who's being the moralist" now?

i can appreciate the sentiment but what does being a lousy drunk and father got to do with the game?

rose has been a pretty big piece of shit in his own right anyway.

he gambled on his own games. he admitted it. he had a chance to not get a lifetime ban, but he lied to their face. they wanted him to totally admit what they knew was fact, that he bet on his own games. he denied it. they told him he had to admit it or they would ban him for life. he insisted he didn't bet on his games and made his choice, he took the ban. not surprisingly MLB has held him to the bargain he made.

then years later, after finally realizing they weren't BSing about it being a ban for life, he came out and admitted he did in fact bet on his own games.

MLB has so far said "you had your chances and made your choices, now live by them". he asked for what he got.

stick him in after he dies.

So Rose is back on the PR tour again, saying he'd love to talk to the new commissioner.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/123140...ifting-life-ban

There's exactly one way to do that - apply for reinstatement.

Seems like this is another hustle by Charlie Hustle.

Pete Rose submits application to be reinstated to MLB

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseba...ticle-1.2151091

new report that Rose bet on baseball as a player
6/22/15


http://time.com/3930627/pete-rose-cincinnati-reds-gambling/

While he previously admitted betting as a manager, he denied doing so as a player

Newly obtained documents indicate Pete Rose, the all-time Major League Baseball leader in hits, bet on baseball while he was a player, according to a new report that bats against his 26-year denial of doing so.

ESPN’s Outside the Lines reports that the documents—copies of pages from a notebook of Michael Bertolini, a previous associate of Rose—refutes Rose’s past claims that he only placed bets while he was a manager on the Cincinnati Reds—never as a player. Even that admission came after nearly 15 years of denials; Rose was banned for life from the league in 1989.

The notebook seized from Bertolini’s home covers March to July 1986, with documentation that for at least 30 different days, Rose gambled on at least one MLB team. On 21 of those days, the report notes, Rose bet on the Reds’ games—many of which he was playing in.

interesting, why did this take so long in coming out?

what else don't we know.

Binnie,

In your book, does the seized notebook count as proof?

Who would keep betting ledger from decades ago? and when was it seized?

yes, good questions, of course the notebook if in fact is real, it is damning evidence that once again rose was a liar.

watch or read




William Weinbaum and T.J. Quinn


For 26 years, Pete Rose has kept to one story: He never bet on baseball while he was a player.

Yes, he admitted in 2004, after almost 15 years of denials, he had placed bets on baseball, but he insisted it was only as a manager.
ON OUTSIDE THE LINES TODAY

T.J. Quinn reportsOTL on the notebook that shows Pete Rose bet on baseball as a player, at 2:30 p.m. ET Monday on ESPN.

But new documents obtained by Outside the Lines indicate Rose bet extensively on baseball -- and on the Cincinnati Reds -- as he racked up the last hits of a record-smashing career in 1986. The documents go beyond the evidence presented in the 1989 Dowd report that led to Rose's banishment and provide the first written record that Rose bet while he was still on the field.

"This does it. This closes the door," said John Dowd, the former federal prosecutor who led MLB's investigation.

The documents are copies of pages from a notebook seized from the home of former Rose associate Michael Bertolini during a raid by the U.S. Postal Inspection Service in October 1989, nearly two months after Rose was declared permanently ineligible by Major League Baseball. Their authenticity has been verified by two people who took part in the raid, which was part of a mail fraud investigation and unrelated to gambling. For 26 years, the notebook has remained under court-ordered seal and is currently stored in the National Archives' New York office, where officials have declined requests to release it publicly.

Rose, through his lawyer, Raymond Genco, issued a statement: "Since we submitted the application earlier this year, we committed to MLB that we would not comment on specific matters relating to reinstatement. I need to maintain that. To be sure, I'm eager to sit down with [MLB commissioner Rob] Manfred to address my entire history -- the good and the bad -- and my long personal journey since baseball. That meeting likely will come sometime after the All-Star break. Therefore at this point, it's not appropriate to comment on any specifics." Bertolini's lawyer, Nicholas De Feis, said his client is "not interested in speaking to anyone about these issues."
ESPN

Dowd, who reviewed the documents at Outside the Lines' request, said his investigators had tried but failed to obtain Bertolini's records, believing they would be the final piece in their case that Rose was betting with mob-connected bookmakers in New York. Dowd and his team had sworn testimony from bookie Ron Peters that Rose bet on the Reds from 1984 through 1986, but not written documentation. Dowd also had testimony and a recorded phone conversation between Bertolini and another Rose associate, Paul Janszen, that established that Bertolini had placed bets for Rose. But Dowd never had the kind of documents that could cement that part of his case, especially in the eyes of fans who wanted to see Rose returned to Major League Baseball.

"We knew that [Bertolini] recorded the bets, and that he bet himself, but we never had his records. We tried to get them. He refused to give them to us," Dowd said. "This is the final piece of the puzzle on a New York betting operation with organized crime. And, of course, [Rose] betting while he was a player."

The documents obtained by Outside the Lines, which reflect betting records from March through July 1986, show no evidence that Rose, who was a player-manager in 1986, bet against his team. They provide a vivid snapshot of how extensive Rose's betting life was in 1986:

• In the time covered in the notebook, from March through July, Rose bet on at least one MLB team on 30 different days. It's impossible to count the exact number of times he bet on baseball games because not every day's entries are legible.

• But on 21 of the days it's clear he bet on baseball, he gambled on the Reds, including on games in which he played.

• Most bets, regardless of sport, were about $2,000. The largest single bet was $5,500 on the Boston Celtics, a bet he lost.

• Rose bet heavily on college and professional basketball, losing $15,400 on one day in March. That came during his worst week of the four-month span, when he lost $25,500.

Dowd said he wished he'd had the Bertolini notebook in 1989, but he didn't need it to justify Rose's banishment. Under MLB Rule 21, "Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."

But Rose's supporters have based part of their case for his reinstatement on his claim that he never bet while he was a player or against his team, saying that sins he committed as a manager shouldn't diminish what he did as a player.

"The rule says, if you bet, it doesn't say for or against. It's another device by Pete to try to excuse what he did," Dowd said. "But when he bet, he was gone. He placed his financial interest ahead of the Reds, period."

The timing for Rose, who played in 72 games in 1986, isn't great. In March of this year, he applied to Manfred for reinstatement. Dowd recently met with MLB CIO and executive vice president of administration John McHale Jr., who is leading Manfred's review of Rose's reinstatement request, to walk McHale through his investigation. On Monday morning, MLB officials declined to comment about the notebook.

In April, Rose repeated his denial, this time on Michael Kay's ESPN New York 98.7 FM radio show, that he bet on baseball while he was a player. "Never bet as a player: That's a fact," he said.

Outside the Lines tracked down two of the postal inspectors who conducted the raid on Bertolini's home in 1989 and asked them to review the documents. Both agents, former supervisor Craig Barney and former inspector Mary Flynn, said the records were indeed copies of the notebook they seized.

When the case began, it didn't look particularly enticing, Barney said. The postal inspector's office in Brooklyn, New York, had received a complaint that a man in Staten Island had failed to return goods to paying customers that he was supposed to have autographed. The man's name was Michael Bertolini, and the business he ran out of his home was called Hit King Marketing Inc.
ESPN

"It was a mere 'failure to render [services]' complaint," said Barney, who is now retired. "We didn't know anything about Bertolini or his connection [to Rose]."

If the accusation was true, it would constitute mail fraud, but the agents had no probable cause to search Bertolini's house.

Barney sent an agent to drive by the address. There was a for sale sign out front, the agent told him. So Barney and Flynn, posing as a couple looking for a home, called a real estate agent and were given a guided tour of Bertolini's house. "It was such a mess. There was stuff everywhere," Barney said.

Bats, balls, books and papers were scattered all over. It looked to them as if Bertolini had been signing memorabilia with the forged names of some of the most famous baseball players in history: Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Duke Snider, Mike Schmidt and Pete Rose. "It reeked of fraud," Barney said.

The two inspectors spotted an item that a complainant said had not been returned. That gave them probable cause to seek a search warrant.

On Oct. 13, a few days after the undercover house tour and after obtaining a search warrant, they searched Bertolini's home and found evidence that would lead to numerous convictions. But one item stood out: In a box of papers in the basement, Barney said, was a spiral notebook filled with handwritten entries.

It was immediately clear that the many notations of "PETE" in the pages represented Pete Rose.

"There were numbers and dates and -- it was a book for sports betting," Barney said. "I was taken aback."

Flynn, who said her first reaction was "Holy mackerel," said they asked Bertolini about the notebook.

"He wasn't forthcoming with much information," she said, "but he did acknowledge to me it was records of bets he made for Pete Rose."

Bertolini offered his take on the raid during his sentencing hearing in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn six years later (he served 14 months for tax fraud and a concurrent assault sentence):

"I got a call at the place where I was working at the time from my brother, and he says, 'You should come home.' He said, 'There's a bunch of government people here, and they're here for you.' At the time, I think it was Mary Flynn of the postal inspector's office who got on the phone and said, 'We're here,' and she told me why and so forth. They took any records I had whatsoever, and they took different personal belongings and memorabilia from my home."
Postal inspectors seized memorabilia from Michael Bertolini's house that contained the names of some of the most famous baseball players in history: Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Duke Snider, Mike Schmidt and Pete Rose. William Weinbaum/ESPN

Although the 1989 raid on Bertolini's house received immediate news coverage, nothing about a betting book became public for five years. After Bertolini pleaded guilty and received a federal prison sentence, Sports Illustrated, The New York Times, ESPN and other news organizations filed freedom of information requests with the U.S. Attorney's Office seeking access to the book. All were denied on the grounds that the notebook had been introduced as a grand jury exhibit and contained information "concerning third parties who were not of investigative interest."

Last year, Outside the Lines again applied unsuccessfully for access to the notebook but learned it had been transferred to the National Archives under a civil action titled "United States v. One Executive Tools Spiral Notebook." Two small boxes of other items confiscated in the postal raid on Bertolini's house went too, including autographed baseballs and baseball cards.

In April, Outside the Lines examined the Bertolini memorabilia kept in the National Archives' New York office, but the betting book -- held apart from everything else -- was off-limits. The U.S. Attorney's Office internal memorandum from 2000 that requested the spiral notebook's transfer said Bertolini's closed file has "sufficient historical or other value to warrant its continued preservation by the United States Government." The memorandum listed among its attachments a copy of the notebook, but a copy of the memorandum provided by the National Archives had no attachments and had a section redacted.

"I wish I had been able to use it [the book] all those years he was denying he bet on baseball," said Flynn, the former postal inspector. "He's a liar."

To Dowd, one of the most compelling elements of the newly uncovered evidence is that it supports the charge that Rose was betting with mob-connected bookies through Bertolini. Dowd's investigation had established that Rose was hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at the time he was banished from the game.

"Bertolini nails down the connection to organized crime on Long Island and New York. And that is a very powerful problem," Dowd said. "[Ohio bookie] Ron Peters is a golf pro, so he's got other occupations. But the boys in New York are about breaking arms and knees.

"The implications for baseball are terrible. [The mob] had a mortgage on Pete while he was a player and manager."

Freelance researcher Liam Quinn contributed to this report.

Rut row!

The 2016 Hall of Fame ballot is out:

http://bbwaa.com/

I think Griffey, Piazza, Bagwell, and Schilling have to go in. I'd fill out a ballot of ten with Raines, McGriff, Trammell, Walker, Edmonds, and Nomar, but there's lots of guys you could put in those slots.

Ken Griffey is 100% in. Greatest home run hitter of all time if he didn't get hurt so often.

One of the great left handed homerun hitter but may be the last power hitter to get it.

Commissioner's decision in on Pete's latest appeal. He's still barred:

http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/8/4/6/15961...nt_u35dqem0.pdf

The decision, though, contains some curious language:



It could be construed as MLB telling that Hall that MLB doesn't care if the Hall gets rid of the rule against inducting permanently ineligible players.

Interesting little side light in this year's Hall voting, this website:

HOF Tracker

Is tracking votes as sportswriters reveal them in their columns. To date, Griffey is 95-0. It's a long way to go to the 450 or so expected votes, but it's starting to be plausible that he could be the first unanimous inductee. At the very least, he should challenge Tom Seaver's record 98.8% of the vote.

Want to learn how to pitch watch tom Seaver pitch.

This is getting interesting: Griffey is now 152-0 on announced ballots.

Piazza's at 87.4% and looks probable for induction. Bagwell and Raines are both over 80%, but non-public voters tend to be less generous so if they manage to stay over the required 75% it'll be a close thing.

Pete,

thanks...fact that there are no unanimous HOFers so far is one of the reasons why people don't take sportswriters/reporters seriously. they are petty and hold grudges because of perceived or real slights.

I don't recall the full details of the story but Ted Williams either didn't get mvp or didn't get unanimous mvp because some report just didn't like him......and it was in an above average ted williams ....MFers never played the game yet can keep great players out of accolades that they've earned


I know very little about baseball but I do know that Griffey Junior was very well liked and respected in addition to being the last great clean power hitter.
I remember Gary Carter's name came up for the hall several times and reporters mentioned ON THE RADIO how they wouldn't vote for him because he was a phony with the press.
F reporters.

Griffey and Piazza selected, with Griffey taking a record 99.3% (437) of the 440 votes cast. Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Trevor Hoffman all take 67-72% of the vote, and are well-positioned for induction next year. McGwire and Trammell drop off the ballot because their time has expired, and Edmonds and Garciaparra drop off because of a lack of votes. Newcomers to the ballot next year will include Vladimir Guerrero, Jorge Posada, Ivan Rodriguez, and Manny Ramirez, so the ballot will remain crowded.