yes, that was an old post of mine, and I have since changed my mind about rose. he belongs in the hall of fame, the liars, and juicers did more to hurt baseball than he ever did.

Sportswriters have to submit their Hall of Fame ballots to the Hall of Fame today. This website has been collecting votes as writers have been revealing them in their columns:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand

With 90 ballots (out of more than 500) revealed so far, this is how the voting looks:

98.9% - P. Martinez
98.9 - R. Johnson
87.8 - Smoltz
82.2 - Biggio
78.9 - Piazza

75% required for induction

73.3 - Bagwell
64.4 - Raines
57.8 - Schilling
45.6 - Bonds
44.4 - Clemens
41.1 - Mussina
28.9 - E. Martinez
22.2 - Trammell
17.8 - Lee Smith
16.7 - McGriff
13.3 - Kent
6.7 - L. Walker
6.7 - McGwire
5.6 - Sheffield
5.6 - Sosa

5% required to stay on the ballot next year

1.1 - Garciaparra
1.1 - Mattingly
1.1 - Delgado

The ballots revealed before the formal announcement have usually run above the final numbers, so right now it looks like Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, and John Smoltz will be inducted, Craig Biggio has a good chance, Mike Piazza is iffy, and Jeff Bagwell has an uphill fight. On the other end, guys like Larry Walker, McGwire, Sheffield, and Sosa are in danger of dropping off the ballot next year.

Is there a reason why Schilling is this low?

The voters can only pick ten guys on the ballot. 9th overall, 4th pitcher is pretty good on a ballot that's stacked like this one.

Voting was announced today. Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio are in. Mike Piazza came in just under 70%. Getting four guys in this year will help with the backlog of worthy candidates next year.

Here's who is likely eligible for 2016; Ken Griffey is probably the only HOF-worthy candidate of all the first time candidates - http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml

The full vote (549 ballots cast):


Votes Player Percentage
534 Randy Johnson 97.3%
500 Pedro Martinez 91.1%
455 John Smoltz 82.9%
454 Craig Biggio 82.7%

384 Mike Piazza 69.9%
306 Jeff Bagwell 55.7%
302 Tim Raines 55.0%
215 Curt Schilling 39.2%
206 Roger Clemens 37.5%
202 Barry Bonds 36.8%
166 Lee Smith 30.2%
148 Edgar Martinez 27.0%
138 Alan Trammell 25.1%
135 Mike Mussina 24.6%
77 Jeff Kent 14.0%
71 Fred McGriff 12.9%
65 Larry Walker 11.8%
64 Gary Sheffield 11.7%
55 Mark McGwire 10.0%
50 Don Mattingly 9.1%
36 Sammy Sosa 6.6%
30 Nomar Garciaparra 5.5%

21 Carlos Delgado 3.8%
4 Troy Percival 0.7%
2 Aaron Boone 0.4%
2 Tom Gordon 0.4%
1 Darin Erstad 0.2%
0 Rich Aurilia 0.0%
0 Tony Clark 0.0%
0 Jermaine Dye 0.0%
0 Cliff Floyd 0.0%
0 Brian Giles 0.0%
0 Eddie Guardado 0.0%
0 Jason Schmidt 0.0%

Piazza's pretty well-positioned for next year. The biggest surprise, to me, is probably that Carlos Delgado is the only significant player to fall off the ballot with less than 5%. Mattingly drops off after exhausting his 15 years on the ballot.

why only 39% for schillings, anybody?

On this year's ballot, he probably the fifth or sixth best pitcher listed. I think his numbers will improve in the next two years -- three of those pitchers aren't on the ballot next year, plus the 2016 and 2017 ballots have very few worthy first time candidates.

I think Piazza, Griffey and possibly Raines get in next year, particularly since 2017 is Raines' last year on the ballot. In 2017, Ivan Rodriguez is probably the best first timer, but I don't think he gets in the first try. That might be the best shot for Schilling and Bagwell.

Steroids notwithstanding, he didn't get in for the same reason that Clemens and Bonds didn't. Politics. He made a lot of enemies.

Also why Ted Williams had a relatively low percentage of gaining entry. Williams was the best ballplayer of my lifetime and he didn't make the 95% club. Many baseball writers didn't like him because of his caustic personality.

I agree with that to a degree, SC. I've read that away from the game and the media that Williams was a sweetheart and a MUCH nicer guy than DiMaggio. But DiMaggio knew how to work the media. Williams didn't give a shit about kowtowing to a bunch of leech reporters. Good for him!

And as an aside, Willie Mays was the best ALL AROUND outfielder of your lifetime.

Mays was a better fielder, but without a doubt Teddy Ballgame was the greatest player of my lifetime.

well, willie mays could do everything, hit, field, great arm, stole bases, but, just as a pure hitter its Williams, he hit .388 when he was in his late thirties, and hit 38 homers when he was 38. greatest pure hitter ever. willie, best all around ballplayer ever.

Was it Williams that stopped tipping his cap at the crowd after the fans booed him in of his first seasons? I thought I remember him saying that in Ken Burns Baseball, but not 100% sure.

Mays gets dinged some because he ran out of steam by the time he got back to New York, but I think he and Honus Wagner were the only guys among the really great offensive players who were still playing well at an "up the middle" position in their late 30s. Pretty much everyone else had either shifted down to an easier position or was just getting by on defensive reputation by the time they were 35.

Williams did more than that, one time after hitting a home run he spit up at the press box at fenway park.

the writers didn't like him at all, but, it didn't take away from his great hitting.

Good to see Johnson and Martinez make the Hall. The most encouraging thing about the voting is that Bonds isn't far off making it; i really didn't expect that. I still dont think he'll ever make it but it's good to see some people vote outside the Medias influence.

I'll say it again a HOF with Gaylord Perry, and without Barry Bonds is irrelevant. Bonds was 1st Ballot before he started using Roids, Perry prided himself on the fact that he cheated his entire career. One made history, the other became an outskirts Hall of Famer.

Bonds is a fraud, and doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the HOF in my humble opinion...and with the size that his roided up melon has become, he couldn't fit his head in the door anyway.

That shows you why Cooperstown is a joke these days. You have to have an axe to grind like you said if you think Ted Williams did NOT deserve to be in the HOF.

As for Ken Griffey Jr. he better be a first timer as well, kid was one of the biggest phenoms in the modern era to basically come straight out of h.s. and was in the MLB's in no time.

I remember I was 9 or 10 when his Upper Deck Rookie Card was the hottest card around. That was about the only card of the 80's to hold value

Me and you have had some disagreements in the past but here we are 110% together. While the argument can be said he was a HOF'er before the roids (I think he was too) the fact remains he got on them and that taints him IMHO. Especially if they hold Pete Rose out for something he done after he played, but put Bonds in because of what he done before he cheated? It wouldn't surprise me though. Cooperstown (while I'd like to visit there one time) technically it's a joke.

Well Rose gave a short interview, and said that the best of the Steroid era should be elected in.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/20/pete-rose-says-best-from-steroids-era-belong-in-hall-of-fame

Yeah, but that's classic Pete Rose advocating Pete Rose. If Bonds, Clemens and to an extent Pettitte and Palmeiro get in, his chances of enshrinement grow tremendously.

Of the players you listed, the only one I can see getting in any time soon is Andy Pettitte. Bonds & Clemens alienated too many voters. And Palmeiro will never live down his finger wag from the 2005 congressional hearings.

Pete Rose is a prick. But the HOF has enshrined its share of jackasses, most notably Ty Cobb, the player whom Rose eclipsed on the all-time hits list. Rose has served a longer sentence than athletes who have killed other people. He's done enough time.

Pettitte helped himself by coming clean on PED use. Other than that, I view him as a borderline candidate, with career numbers akin to Jim Kaat and Tommy John.

At least from the Sun article, it looks like Rose is advocating that Bonds and Clemens get in. Should both Bonds and Clemens get in, Rose builds a sympathy case for reinstatment and induction. After all, if the all time home run king and a top five pitcher get in with their baggage, why can't the all time hits leader?

I think Rose deserves a fair hearing on reinstatment; he has applied four times since 1990 and all have been summarily denied by Fay Vincent and Bud Selig. While I think Selig had an axe to grind, what has bugged me about Rose is that he's always been a bit self-serving, whether it's been his player/manager career to his sudden reversal in 2004 regarding the Dowd Report. Considering he'll be 74 this year, I think Rose only going to amplify his reinstatement campaign.

So let Rose reapply, and come clean and be contrite in a public forum. It would be some interesting filler on MLB Network, and serve as a message to current and future players about the downside of gambling. He probably has the support of a majority of fans. And instead of the Commissioner deciding, let the owners and living Hall of Fame players vote on his reinstatement. That way, his fate isn't in the hands of one person, but a cross-section of baseball's past and present.

Part of Bud Selig's legacy will be tarnished with the PED issues and MLB's slow reaction to implement rules. It's vastly different now - there's a good partnership with the MLBPA to adapt to changes in PEDs - but from at least the McGwire/Sosa chase in 1998 to Bonds breaking Aaron's record in 2007, there were far too many issues with enforcement and leadership from Selig's office. Until a few seasons ago, there were no serious consequences for this cheating - when Palmeiro was caught in 2005, all he received was a 10 day (not game) suspension.

Selig's biggest leadership failure was offloading the investigative work to the Mitchell Report, which not only had significant conflict of interest concerns, but ended up hurting a number of players who might have never touched a PED. Selig didn't even appoint George Mitchell to conduct the investigation until 2006, eight years after Mark McGwire brought Andro in the spotlight.

Now compare that to the Black Sox scandal, which threatened to destroy baseball. Dating back to the early days of the National League, gambling was a threat to the integrity of the game. But the Black Sox scandal was far bigger, in fact the American League was on the verge of folding after the 1920 season. Within a year of the scandal surfacing, clear rules were established regarding gambling with consequences for violators. And it was one of those rules that snared Pete Rose. Were the rules rigid and black-and-white? Probably. But it helped preserve baseball's legitimacy from its most critical time to its current peaks.

selig, wasn't exactly "johnny on the spot" regarding steroid use. he could have served baseball much better if he would have acted much sooner as "its the jackeeetttttt" stated.

.

Isn't it as clear as a bell that Pete's reinstatement would completely undermine the rule?

Probably. But if one looks at Rose's agreement from 1989, MLB never actually made a formal finding that Rose gambled - that was part of the bargain Rose made with Bart Giamatti.

I'm not quarreling with you and my memory of this has defintitely faded since it took place over 25 years ago. But I thought they had Rose with betting slips that proved his guilt? I could be way off on that, but for some reason that sticks in my mind. I'm not saying what Rose did wasn't disagraceful. And Rose has been his own worst enemy. But he's paid for his "crime" and deserves to be considered for the HOF.

And re: Pettitte, I should have been more clear. I was talking about the players you mentioned. But you're right, it's debatable whether Pettitte is HOF-worthy.

there is going to be a new bb commissioner, maybe he will have a different slant on pete rose than selig, and the rest had.

goombah is right, rose has paid dearly for his discretions, his records prove he should be in.