Only acting according to Capeci in his gangland article this week., says Amuso still boss. Wasn't he the one who broke the news about Crea taking over?

Oh, please. Capeci can't ever be wrong?

And I like Capeci, as far as journalists go. He's fair, where most of them are leeches. But I really don't know what his objective is here.

And what does "official" boss even mean? That the Feds label him that way on their charts. That's all it means.

Maybe Jerry's just fishing because he doesn't have a source that high up in the Luccheses. And it's possible that he's trying to flush one out.

It's been rumored the feds have used Capeci before to "tickle the wire"

I can definitely see that.

It sound like some bs.

Who could get to Amuso to have him make a decision anyway, he's been away for ever, how much can he know about current mob business on the streets..?

Wasn't Amuso cellies with Nicky Scarfo at one time? Can you imagine if those walls could talk?

He probably reads gangland every week to keep up to date

Or cosanostra news.com

The story is an obvious red herring. They're just shaking the tree.

Of course he can, I don't buy it.

^^^^
That wasn't directed at you, Tommy. You know that. You're one of the best posters on any of these sites. I was just venting at the gullibility of the less informed .

Maybe, But Crea and Madonna attended Vic's wife's wake only a few days after GL announced his removal as boss.

IF thats true its a pretty big marker that Crea taking over was false.

Why, because they decided to respect the dead?

You know how much I loathe these speculative threads. Go ask the skippers who the fucking boss is. I'm done posting about it.

Coulden't he have just shown up because they were friendly? Pizza?

Look at my post right above yours. I'm done with this shit.

Ye sorry about that just saw it. Clicked to respond to sonny before you posted and went to do something.

Yeah, it COULD be to pay respects. It COULD be because they were friendly.
It also COULD be because Vic is still the boss.
I dont know, Im only fucking speculating as is every other fucking guy on this board.

Anyone here a made guy with the Fucking Luchese family? No? Didnt fucking think so.

Pretty sick n tired of the attitude here of late.

I hear ya PB keep your head up, don't let this shit get to you(nobody was calling you out)...It's all supposed to be fun around here(Unless someone calls you out...then, ya know)....This is the way PB's feeling right now..

You're angry because i offered a different take? Jesus, its a message board, we debate.

I have to agree with Sonny, there are some guys on here that think they have first hand knowledge on anything Mob related or on a specific Family. They act as if they and are contacted daily by the Administration and captains for their advice and counsel.

We all have our opinions that we based on what we have read and observed through out our life experience. We are lucky to have some guys on here that have had different exposure to the Mob than others , but they are still their opinions. Unless you are a Mobster, a Fed or a Prosecutor what do you really know. Also you can add a journalist to that list aswell. They have sources in law enforcement and on the street. Yes they make mistakes, but if you can do better, then start your own blog or Mob forum. Let's not attack one another or try to force our opinions on others, If you say something, back it up, put a link ortherwise it's just like they say, "Opinions are like asshole, everyone has one!"
Just my two cents!

Obviously CREA is da real power.. All the Lucchesse on da street kno this I dont think Crea gives a fuck if it official or not.. But prety much creais the official bosd

Crea is 100% the official lucchese boss , end of thread let's move on

I agree with this.


But everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've been a little short tempered lately. Nothing to do with anyone here .

Well, I gotta say that the funeral theory is a bit of a reach...

Beanshooter, good post. I was emailing back and forth a couple months back with a guy who is a long time GBB member who rarely posts now who echoed your sentiments, and he said "I just got tired of the posers, goofballs and thread hijackers". Anyway being an amateur Mob watcher I really appreciate the insights from all the folks on here. Maybe the summer heat is causing some of the attitude.

We get all kinds or crazies on this site. It's the nature of the subject matter, I guess.

Who gives a fuck. Doesn't effect me. Makes for a good story. My guess is there isn't anything else to write about. Tommy D and emails. Snooze fest. Memberships probably low. Again, who really gives a fuck.

PB said it best. Ask the captains.

Apol Italforever. Was not directed at you.

Bad day my end is all.

You are getting grouchy in you're old age Just kidding pal I know it wasn't directed at me

No argument there .

For what it's worth (my opinion means nothing) Crea has been boss since his parole restrictions expired in 2009. Amuso has had little or no say in the family since 2003, pretty much all his loyalists were in jail, while Migliore, DiNapoli and Madonna were running things while Crea was in jail. Why would they kick upto a guy with no powerbase who's completely fucked up the family, they let him keep his stripes until Crea came home, he's been the real power in the family for 20 years. What he says goes.

Added to which even dumbass Capeci's 'contacts' state Amuso is hated on the street.

Why he believes Vic is still in the big chair is beyond me.

As stated by others my only conclusion is it's a red herring designed either by the Feds or Capeci to stir the nest.

Capeci's better than this. He's trying to sell ice to the Eskimo's with this shit. And I'm amazed he's got the balls.

Unless he's doing it for a reason....

When was Scarfo jr. made? That was a result of Amuso and Scarfo plotting together in prison and deciding up that. I think he was made in 1999-2000, but I'm not sure. If that is so, Amuso had to have been calling the shots otherwise why would Crea allow that headache. Your thoughts?

There you go, Tex .

Interesting point. From memory Nicky Jnr was hit in 91? Made soon after, so that would still fit in the above timeline, with him losing control late 90's.

Stevie has always been close to the Pernas and the Jersey faction through Hooks and Joey G. It's entirely possible he did it for them. He's also an old timer at heart, and he may have simply done it for Scarfo. Who knows?

89 I think, think it was around 95 he got made.

Home run the blue Jays!

Good memory, Sonny. That timeline fits because Stevie's influence date back to the mid to late '90s.

Let me quote myself because his influence as the main power dates back to the late '90s. He was a very powerful guy in his own right ten years prior to that. He was partnered with the DiNapolis and a millionaire in construction before his 40th birthday. He's a very impressive guy, as far as those guys go.

And that, closes the issue.

All due respect (or lack there of) to Capeci, I think we can put this thread to bed now.

Could someone clarify me i read capeci article he says madonna was his righthand man on the street whose he talking about. Is he creas guy or amuso. Crea was acting consig in 90 or 91 so amuso seen something in him and guess he wasnt on vic n gas hitlist like neil mig was. But madoona was in jail from 75 to 95.woonder how he even met amuso who got life mid 90tys and madonna was wrapping up. I did see and remember amuso son inlaw got some sway. I remember a article by capeci were he killed that hitman joe watts saying he was a government witness and they staged a fake trial or pleabargin hearing and who ever told him that shit was all bs i think it was l.e. cause the retracted that quick think thats when he was working for.tbe sun. The guy joe watts had good lawyers and took pleas unlike john gotti order who was the smart guy in the end even thou the feds hit him again since but might get out oneday and was still doing mafia shit just acouple yrs ago.

I thought that was more of a move to placate the bronx guys.

My fault i misread.

Didn't Crea reluctantly make Scarfo after Amuso pushed him to do it?

And for what it's worth, Capeci did quote 4 sources including three in law enforcement. My question is where were all these sources when he originally said Amuso stepped down?

Stevie and the Bronx/Harlem faction were the power when Scarfo got straightened out.


The reason is debatable.

Is there even a difference between acting and official boss at this point? It's not like Amuso could give a lot of orders since he can't possibly know what's going on the streets after being locked up for 25 years. He probably has never even met most his captains. The only difference I can think of is whether Amuso is still getting money or not.

Whether or not you believe the article---and I've made my feelings pretty clear---I think everyone can agree that for all practical purposes, Stevie has final say in the street. And it's been that way for quite some time now.

If Vic was supposedly a pawn used by Anthony Casso then how did he retain so much power over a decade after going to prison - independent of Casso?

I mean the guy has been characterised as an insecure, subservient pushover yet he ordered and possibly carried out more killings than any other contemporary crime boss.

It fascinates me. I really don't think anyone can paint a full, consistent picture of what Amuso was like - certainly compared to other significant mafia figures. So many accounts of Amuso seem to directly contradict each other.

Moe, Thanks for the link, this should get interesting considering this guy's last article on Borgesi and the Philly Hierarchy.

In all fairness, he's just regurgitating the bullshit that Capeci reported this week. Can't blame this guy for everything .

He has a GOOD source if it has anything to do with NY wiseguys especially Brooklyn. I know he gets his info from a guy who is from the neighborhood who grew up with wiseguys and was an associate.
But you didn't hear that from me.

I actually had a beef with him a cpl yrs ago cuz he used my lil pal video I made without asking my permission. I told him take it down n he did. That's how I found out his source.

I'm sure he's an okay guy. But everyone gets it wrong now and then. And he's not open to criticism at all. That's half his problem. If you're going to be in a creative field, like writing, you have to be able to accept criticism, or people are going to deliberately look to tear you apart. Especially today, in the age of blogs and Amazon reviews.

It's much easier to say I was wrong once, than go on a tantrum with twenty back and forth insults. Just my two cents .

Alfanosgirl are you talking about Capeci or Ed Scarpo(Cosanostranews)?

I'm talkin about the Cosa Nostra news writer not Capeci a capisci? Giggle

....Oh ok i understand.

Ok NJ--- I will try not to use my mob coded speech with u too much.
I'll letcha warm up a bit...

Who me?...No need for me to warm up....I've been hot since the first day of birth!

Yea I was beginning to worry about U there for a moment Jersey!
Good boy!

I also can't see how Amuso still has the reigns unless it's as a front to take heat off the top guys on the street.

Outside of the disaster in the 90s the Luchese have generally been huge earners and a very strong family IMO . Things appear to be going good at the moment and as mentioned earlier I really am wondering if this is to get some info on the admin, perhaps LE intel is light at the moment .

I was going to leave it alone, DB. But you're a good kid, and I have to reiterate that I agree with that assessment 100%.

It's driving the Feds nuts that they don't even know who the under is right now. They're using Capeci to shake the tree. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last.

Of course everyone is free to draw their own conclusion. But I stand by my position. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong .

Your rarely wrong PB and I think you were spot on with this one from the beginning .

The 90s were a total mess for these guys but outside of that , they generally know how to conduct business . Them Bronx , E/I guys sure seem to know what they are doing .

Regarding Scarfo Jr., was it even a bad move to make the guy? He seems like a good earner who will do his time without flipping.

Not really. He made a lot of money, and it seems that New York kept him at arm's length. So even if he did flip, which is doubtful anyway, he couldn't hurt the administration.

I don't know much about him. He's a Jersey/Philly guy. But I think it might get interesting when his father passes away. He's like 85 now. So if he dies a few years into Junior's sentence, he may decide to roll. I seriously doubt he'd flip while his old man is still alive.

So you don't think he has much on MY guys? I wonder if he has anything on Philly guys from the 80s/90s. I saw Leonetti saying he should flip and implicate Merlino in his shooting.

NY not MY... Sorry

Also I wonder if a jury would even believe that without any corroboration. Merlino was in disguise. Also good point Pb on his father. Scarfo Sr is such a piece of shit, thats one thing I believe Leonetti on.

Nah. That's a big misconception with these guys. That just anyone can flip. You have to be able to offer them someone worthwhile. And I doubt he has anything on New York, or even the Pernas for that matter. Those are pretty cautious guys.

As far as Philly in the late '80s. Who can he give them, his old man?

Yeah, I don't know. But he has to know SOMETHING and it's not like he was charged with murder. He someone got a Rico conviction for accounting control fraud, he's obviously an idiot... Anyway the point is the feds might be more willing to listen due to his relatively non violent history. And if they're more willing to listen, they might be ok with lesser targets and more vague information. But truthfully I'm just trying to make a logical guess, I (obviously) have no idea. His last name can't help matters, though.

Like even if he could be another witness to corroborate that Crea is boss... Wouldn't that be helpful? Like I said, just a guess. The only neighborhood shit I know is how many kids the divorced mom has down the street

Sure it would be helpful. But I seriously doubt he knows anything. One of the reasons that family has been running so smoothly these past few years is because they seem to leave Jersey to Jersey and Brooklyn to Brooklyn. Everybody's happy. For as long as it lasts, anyway. The Feds can't even name the under right now and it's driving them crazy.

But this shit's all cyclical. There will eventually be a big pinch, someone will flip, and then the general public will know more. That's why I think something is about to jump off. There's something not right about that Gangland article.

But until something happens, that family is running as smoothly as a crime family can run in the 21st century. Lots of shy, lots of book, still some marginal influence in a couple of the unions. If they don't tug on Superman's cape with the murders (with Superman being the government), they should be able to keep the status quo for awhile.

I gotta say that it amazes me that these guys still have their paws in unions in 2014.

Anyway thanks for the reply, PB. Appreciate it.

I do wonder, though, about how big a bust could really be without any murders

Scarfo Junior is gonna get twenty plus years without any murders. All they have to do is tie in a RICO predicate, call it an LCN case, and it's a "big bust."

True. Go to bed.

Well, in all fairness he did earn more coin in a few years than most wiseguys will ever see in two lifetimes.

And in the immortal words of Tony Soprano "This thing's A BUSINESS"

Coin talks bullshit walks.

He also hasnt flipped either.

So respect where due.

All true, Sonny Boy. All true.

What good is the money if you are locked up for life at 50? I understand your points though, good post.

Yup. It applies to all of them, though.

I hate using Hollywood media references, but the Sammy character had a great line in "Gotti," with Armand Assante. It went "drug money ain't a good enough reason to do twenty years," or something like that.

It turned out to be prophetic, too. Being that he ratted, got a get out of jail free card, then got twenty years. For drug money.

Fucking douchebag that he is .

That sounds like something Paulie Gualtieri would say.

I really don't understand the responses in this thread. Why is it people find it so easy to believe Vincent Gigante, John Gotti, or Carmine Persico were able to maintain their positions from prison but Vic Amuso couldn't? And their reasoning for this usually is stated like, "I just can't see..." Well, who cares if you can't see?

Also, while Capeci isn't infallible, he's certainly one of the more respected and well-informed journalists on organized crime. And I tend to think he takes his credibility a little more seriously than to use his articles to "phish" or "tickle the wire" for the feds.

There really is no good reason to doubt this latest info. But, for some reason I've never been able to understand, certain people on these boards always stick up their nose at credible info in favor or their own guesswork or internet forum hearsay.

Ivy , it was Capeci himself who broke the story a couple of years ago that amuso had stepped down and crea had been elected the official boss

This is exactly how I replied on the other board, Ivy:

Gigante had a chance at getting out one day, Amuso doesn't. Big difference.

Had Gotti lived, I doubt he would have held on to power much longer.

Persico is the rare exception. The only reason that family is even halfway viable today is because they're more of a blood family than a mob family.

Agree to disagree on Amuso. I like you, Ivy. No sense in going back and forth because neither one of us will give an inch on this one .

And check your pm, Ivy.

And now he's corrected himself with additional info. If it's enough for him to retract his previous reports, I tend to believe it. It's not about who I think should be boss or would make a better boss, which is the reasoning many seem to be going by.

Not true, most are going off what makes sense.

Since when is that the ultimate criteria we use to deduce fact from fiction? That's why we have so many varying opinions, and subsequent arguments, on these boards. Everyone is presenting what "makes sense" to them as the truth. Meanwhile, they ignore these law enforcement sources that Capeci cites that say Amuso remains the boss.

For too many on these boards, it's a matter of what they want to be the case, or think should be the case, rather than what actually is.

Why u spew ur shit as fact
Grand ave was dead and olny cicero and Chinatown were involved in street stuff
And yet that turns out to be completely untrue

cookcounty is that you?

Like I told your fellow troll/liar cookcounty, I never said Grand Avenue was dead. All I've done is quote the FBI (who also never said Grand Avenue was dead) as info has come out from time to time. Feel free to do a search here, louie. Show me where I ever said that. Or are you just content to make things up and hope others believe it?



They're 2 peas in a pod but they're different people. cookcounty is an aspiring troll. louie is among the troll elite. cookcounty hopes to be one day what louie has been for years now on these forums.

Oh, man. But you guys never fucking stop .

Nobody said it's the ultimate criteria, but you said people think Crea is boss because they 'want' him to be, which is simply not the case.

Capeci's information is based off Crea and other top guys attending Amuso's wifes funeral, nothing more. So Capeci's original sources to Crea taking over are liars?

AS far as I'm concerned Crea is without a doubt number 1 and Amuso is out of the picture.

Shouldn't even be a debate. We crossed this bridge before and if PB says something I tend to believe it as he has not been caght one time bullshitting. Even if somehow someway Amusa was still boss in name ( which I doubt he is) Crea is the powerhouse on the street who the other guys defer to. Therefor making him the boss. The better question would be who is the UB. Which no1 knows so obviously this Family is doing it right.

Tired of the people saying if LE doesn't report it it isn't true. bullshit. LE has gotten allot wrong before and the LUccheses always seemed to kinda stay under the radar ( Next to the Genovese family they probably are the most secretive and well disciplined). No wars and not many informants with the exception of the Casso\Amusa era of the 90's. After all this is supposed to be a secret society even in this day and age.

I suggest you go back and read the article more closely. The FBI stated in the Nicky Scarfo Jr. trial that Vic Amuso was still the boss. 2 other law enforcement sources backed this up. It was yet another law enforcement source that brought up the wake as circumstantial evidence regarding Amuso's position. And one mob source also confirmed all this.

You say you don't want Crea to be the boss but yet here you are misrepresenting what the article said. I've seen people do this on the forums time and again when the official info doesn't square with what they think is the case. Believe whatever you want but you're just one more poster who dismisses objective, public information in favor of speculation, guesswork, and internet forum hearsay.



By your logic, Carmine Galante was the real boss since he was the power on the street for the time while Rusty Rastelli was in prison. But we know that's not the case. I put a lot of stock in what PB says myself but not enough to ignore the information that came out in the recent Gang Land article. The only info that has ever come out about Crea being the boss came from Capeci himself and he has since corrected that in light of more information. People on these forums have simply been pushing, for lack of a better word, for Crea to be boss for some time now. Much the way they did regarding Nick Corozzo being the Gambino boss, rather than Peter Gotti, even though that was never the case.



Like I said, objective, public information from credible sources is dismissed in favor of speculation, guesswork, and internet forum hearsay. Some of you guys need to join reality.

The reality is that Rastelli was eventually coming home. Amuso isn't. And what crew is behind Amuso these Days? He let himself get manipulated by Casso and killed off many many loyal soldiers and capos not to mention trying to kill a woman. And It sounds like Galante got hit for more than just challenging Ratellis position. He was taking over Drug Turf that wasn't his and laying claim to a market that wasn't just his. Which affected every Family. Thats why Supposedly Mr. Neil congratulated WAck Wack after the hit. Different Times and scenarios Ivy.

But like said earlier this is a forum so we can agree to disagree. I respect your stance and opinion.

That's nice of you to say, buddy. Especially considering that you don't really post much. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and Ivy is a dedicated student of organized crime and a disciplined researcher. His posts are always worth reading. I don't do half the research that guys like he and Hairy do. I just post what I believe to be true about people I've known, and a borough I've lived in, for more than fifty years. If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

It's clear that he and I disagree on this, so it's best to just move on. There are certain things that I can't back up with Internet links and government reports. And for some people, that's just not enough. If they didn't read it, that means it didn't happen. I personally believe that life doesn't work that way. Furthermore, too many posters on these sites believe that having the last word means they "won" the debate. And life doesn't work like that, either.

I claim no "inside knowledge" like a lot of the other mopes who claim to be "from the neighborhood." And frankly, there are certain things I'd NEVER post, even if meant winning a silly argument. I believe the things I post and I let my track record speak for itself. I've been right a few times, I've been wrong a few times.

My final thoughts on this, and I'm not going into it again:

If Amuso turns out to be the boss----and let me be clear, I don't believe that's the case----then so what? Who's the real power? Who's living in the palatial estate? Anyone seen that house? Well, I have. And I have to imagine that the view is better than Amuso's.

Now please, let's move on.

Ivy, where did the FBI say Amuso is still boss, can you post a link?

I actually tend to trust someone who I thinks in the know on this subject you uptight bellend. You were unbearable with 'Ligambi is official boss, the FBI says so, honest'

Just took a quick look at Google Maps and Crea's road is the only one within miles that doesn't have a street view. Creaville Road! I bet he has family all over that street. I wonder if he had anything to do with the construction?