Okay so Everybody has seen goodfellas,the amazing movie based on the true story of henry hill but Was Henry Hill and James Conway
presence in the mafia as big as it was shown in the film and are there still non italians that operate in the mafia and has their ever been any non italians that were made guys or has their been any non italians who were treated like made guys but never officially got the title

There has never been a member of the mob that didn't have at least some Italian blood. There's been plenty that were only Italian on their father's side, a handful that were only Italian on their mother's side, but all were Italian to some degree. That's the way it's always been and it won't ever change.

As for associates who have had the clout of made guys, yes. There were several guys like that back in the old days in Chicago. Some may suggest Meyer Lansky, to some extent. More recently, Gambino associate Joe Watts is an oft-mentioned example of this. So, while there are examples, it's still very much the exception to the rule.

Okay thanks for the information,My Grandfather told me that many non italians that were really good earners were Usually very accepted and involved in the Mafia like a made member,but how would the Mafia no if you were italian or not because there is many people who could pass for italian and can speak italian and know the culture, i guess my main question is how are they able to trace your roots back to the old country,i mean i can barely trace my roots with the information and insight that i have so how would the mafia be able to do it??

That line about "tracing your roots to the old country" from Goodfellas is probably just that - a line. It's true that prospective candidates have to be well known for years. Including their history and their immediate family, where they grew up, and so on. But it's not like the mob is getting on a genealogy website and tracing it all back to Sicily or Italy.

I noticed that Roy Demeo didn't care if his crew members were not Italian. How 'made' they were, I don't know, but they did plenty of work for Nino Gaggi.

The only made member of the Demeo "crew" was roy himself. However after Demeo was killed anthony senter and joey testa were made into the luchesses.

No doubt but look at Pistone they knew nothing about him and were ready to open the books for him. They just were going to take his word that he was italian? I think in the end it all depends on how much you can earn.

This has been discussed at length before. My take is that if you can earn, muscle, or both, you have a good opportunity to generate a power base for yourself within LCN. That being said, you should have a good "Rabbi"/ "Uncle" (respected made guy or better obviously of Italian decent) to watch your back when you inevitably step on somebody's toes. Because if you're NOT Italian, the odds are that the powers-that-be are gonna rule against you every time. That is unless the other guy is a laughing stock.

That line always reminded me of something that Puzo might have written if he was a journalist instead of a novelist. It's corny as Hell, yet oddly enough it was perfect for the voice-over in the film.

Most of the five families utilize Ancestry.com to make sure they are making real Italians.

Not to take the thread on a tangent, but real quick: did the FBI pull Joe Pistone and later Jack Garcia prior to being made out of fear that the Mafia might not "turn the other cheek" at that level of embarrassment or was there another reason?

In regards to Joe Pistone, the only reasoning the FBI ever gave for pulling him was because they were worried that he was going to be ordered to kill somebody to get his button. In fact, he had already been given the contract on somebody, Bruno Indelicato I believe (they had a couple plans to deal with this problem. if Joe found Bruno, the FBI was going to take Bruno into custody and possibly stage a hit). If Pistone were brought into a room and ordered to kill a man, or somehow put in such a situation, that would be a disaster for an already successful operation and I think they feared such a situation. Anyways...that's the only reasoning that was ever given.

Idk about Garcia but pistone was pulled cause he was going to have to kill someone.

Who was Louie Diaz was that Joe Pistone too

Louie Diaz is a different person. A different cop that specialized in undercover work. I think he was involved in narcotics cases and possibly OC cases. He has also done some acting and been on TV.

Garcia is still shocking to me, even though he only infiltrated the crew that couldn't shoot straight. Shoot straight? Make that walk straight.

Garcia grew up here in the Bronx. He went to Mount Saint Michael, which, if you're in a lively mood, is almost walking distance to the strip joint that the DePalmas owned. And yet he was STILL able to get over on them.

The Feds should really build a statue of Greg. And put it in Quantico for continued good luck.

There was a story recently that Vito rizzuto made some non Italians , raynald desjardins and juan Fernandez . I don't believe that though , no matter how powerful the guy was he answers to bigger people than him and they woul never ever permit a non Italian getting there button

Ya i agree, i think that was just a case of fernandez(aka joe bravo) tooting his own horn trying to make himself sound important to the sicilians, and look at what happened to him haha.

If one of the dagos wanted a pedicure & brow waxing, the non Italian would foot the bill.

Happy Birthday Dell .

I revived this one because it wasn't part of the CHI VS NY, threads, that you love so much .

Hope you'll continue bro .

I've often wondered this question about whether or not any non-Italians have been made. In my opinion, there must have been a few guys over the past 100 years that were made that should not have been (according to the rules regarding lineage). Guys in the mafia have broken every single rule they've made. They've dealt drugs, slept with made guys' wives, disrespected the boss, etc. There is no reason to think that the rule regarding made guys having the proper Italian lineage has not been broken. The only reason we don't know for sure if it has been broken is anybody that was made and should not have been would never admit that their lineage did not meet the mob's standards.

Here is a hypothetical situation I was wondering about:

They say that you must be Italian on your father's side. So, my father was born in the United States. My grandpa was also born in the United States. My great-grandpa was born in Naples, Italy.

My great-grandpa emigrated from Italy to the US and married a Polish woman. They had a son (my grandpa). Then, my Grandpa married a French woman. They had a son (my father). My father married a Chinese woman. They had me. Am I eligible for the mafia?

That is an excellent question but technically you would not be at least half italian. During the 90's the rules were changed and guys that were half italian could be made,they want you to be half italian from your father side so that you'll have italian last name....But to be honest it is really hard for them or really anyone to check your ethnicity with out an ethnic DNA test(you cang get from ancestory.com for 100$)or knowing your backround or family members. So yes im almost 100% positive that their are or were members that have lied or have been told to lie about their ethnicity by other members so that they can be made....But if your not italian there is many other ethnic mafia's out their.... i might make a post all about that

Do you have Asian eyes?

I swear on my kids that's an honest question, and I'm not being racist. Because these guys aren't exactly bastions of liberalism.

Ask yourself this: If a guy's Dad is Italian but his Mom is Black, and he has his Mom's complexion, would they make him?

Not in a million years.

Well they'd sure as hell be more lenient with letting a guy into the fold if he were half Chinese than if he were half black.

"A Chinese kid named Moltisanti? He'd get his ass kicked every day!"

Neither one of them are getting in.

The half-Italian guys who got squeezed in back then were from somewhat similar backgrounds on their Mothers' side. Craig DePalma and Junior Gotti were Jewish on their Mothers' side. A couple of half-Irish guys got made up in Boston.

Similar neighborhood upbringings coupled with European ancestry and they snuck in. No way a half-Asian or half-Black guy is getting made. Not in the '90s (when they were actually making mixed guys), and certainly not now.

Same with Chicago. The only made guys I can think of who are mixed with something else are either Irish, Greek, or Polish.

I am not half Chinese...that was just a hypothetical.

Anyways, so according to the rules, you must either have been born in Italy or your father must have been born in Italy? That's the deal?

Under another topic (guys cutting deals while serving long sentences),I mentioned Chuckie Porter,a Pittsburgh Mob guy. He was made despite being half Italian(on his mother's side). He rose through the ranks and became Underboss under Michael Genovese.