Does anybody know any details on the 2004 commission meeting at trattoria stella in traverse city michigan. I understand that guys representing all 5 ny families, chicago and detroit were there. Were any other families there. Who makes up the commission nowadays. A lot of people say the last commission meeting was in the 80's, but i heard their was two in the 90's and one in '04. Can anybody confirm this?

When was this?!!!! I have never read this , even in a unsubstantiated post ive never heard this until now, very interested in finding out though sounds like bs Imho.

Last one I heard about was after Gotti and Gigante and all the big guys went to jail. It was basically Massino and a bunch of acting bosses. Seems like it was early 00's.

Last known commision meeting was 2000

This isnt stuff you read. Im asking the people on here that know people first hand. This is stuff you'll probaly read about 20 years from now that comes from a guy that rats.

Ok, well where can I read it on here?

The last one was around 2000 with Messino from the Bonanno crime family as the only official boss of the five families attending, while the other members were acting bosses with the other crime families. The 2004 meeting I believe was members of the Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese crime families administration meeting to discuss Messino flipping as well as the conflicts in the Colombo crime family.

Massino has said that the one in 2000 wasn't even classed as a commission meeting , he says the bosses of the families still meet informally but to his mind the commission doesn't really exist anymore because the five bosses rarely seem to be on the street at the same time

Yeah, the last known one was in 2000 and included Bonanno boss Joseph "Big Joey" Massino, Bonanno underboss Salvatore "Good Looking Sal" Vitale, Genovese ruling panel member Lawrence "Little Larry" Dentico, Gambino acting boss Peter "Petey Boy" Gotti, Lucchese acting boss Louis "Louie Bagels" Daidone, and Colombo consigliere Joel "Waverly" Cacace.

Whether one wants to consider that an actual Commission meeting or not is another debate.

To the original point, there would be no reason, and extremely unlikely, for the NY families to meet with Chicago or Detroit.

I could be forgetting but I don't recall any details about a meeting in 2004 though I wouldn't be surprised if meetings similar to the 2000 one happened since.

It's mainly just captains that meet up now. Too risky for the bosses.

Yea, tommy. Thats what i heard about the 2004 meeting. No bosses were present, but was still considered a commission meeting.

It blows my mind how most posters on this forum think all OC activities are on the internet. If you cant find it online, then it dont exist. Lol.Correct me if im wrong but, last i heard, cosa nostra was a secret society.

Lol I no it's funny as hell. If it on the internet it has to be true lol.

Love it

I wanted to go into a social club to use their telephone because my car broke down but there was a big sign saying "Commission Meeting - back in 20 minutes" on the door so I had to go somewhere else.

True story.

They were probably talking about who killed Jimmy Hoffa and JFK XD

Keep in mind one of the base functions for commission meetings is to manage inter family rackets. Eg concrete club, windows etc.

With OC pushed out of most unions etc there is very little inter-family racketeering going on and therefor little actual requirement for a commission to get together.

LCN is still involved in unions, but rarely more than a single family's influence at a time.

Chicago and genovese still interact over the teamsters, Even though Chicago is the number 1 power nationwide.... Coli and glimco are the Guys in Chicago

Cosa nostra capos matassa jr and Danny pagano are brother inlaws and involved in the union movement

Dom cirillo also knows a few of the boys in Chicago from there meetings in the 80s and as messagario.

all five family representatives are gonna be wired for the next commission meetings

Actually, cases going back over a decade show case after case of the NY families working in joint-operations. And remember the recent WSJ article that talked about how the family's are less territorial and more open to collaboration than in the past as long as they are earning.



No recent examples of this that I'm aware of.



We both know that's not true. And since when did you come to that conclusion? I remember when you were arguing with guys on the RD forum about the Outfit not being as strong as they were claiming. You talked about how "loans were down" and the feds only having a couple guys tracking them. More recently you were talking up the Genovese as the top family. And now you're back to the Outfit? You flip flop back and forth like crazy.



And?



And?



ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

cook, do you come to these boards to stir up the shit with your anti-New York crap? It's getting old.... and just plain annoying. Stop it already!

naw the shit is just funny to me

u should hear what i have to say about this new generation of gangbangers

you are histerical dude....get over it already the outfit wont even exist in 10 years

Guys..lets be realistic here. There is no amount of OC racketeering in Detroit or Chicago that warrants a face to face meeting between made men above the rank of capo. It's not worth the risk these days. Frankly I'm inclined to say if is not documented, it never happened. And as much as some of you like to believe there are still cross-family, nation-wide conspiracies between bosses, there isn't. The last commission meeting was the Massino meeting and he even debates that.

Barrett, i dont think its outta pocket to say theres cross family business going on. I heard jack tocco and john difronzo are very close friends.with them being so close, i cant see them not having any business ventures together. I would also say i think the older new york guys definitely work with chicago and detroit cause those 2 cities are so low key.im sure everyone on here can agree that ny lacks a low key profile.and im not trying to get a chicago vs new york or chicago/detroit vs ny thread going on here. Yes, ny has much more mob activity. But i think theres way to much money to be made for different families not to work together. That being said, i believe my source that the '04 commission meeting existed

I really dont understand what people mean when they say that "ny isnt low key". Ofcourse because its so big they can only stay but so far under the radar, but people(usually the midwest guys) tries to make it out like everyone in new york is fucking john gotti and its getting a little ridicoulous. Its not like you could just drive around manhattan, brooklyn, or the bronx and just see them all over the place cause you cant...just like EVERYWHERE else you gotta know where to look

Driving around ny and seeing a shitload of wiseguys isnt what im talking about. When i say low key, difference between midwest and east coast, you cant figure out for shit what type of illegal business a midwest guy is doing. He dont brag, he doesnt drive a bmw or even a caddy. He says i work in the union or i own a painting company. You meet a new york wiseguy at the bar, next thing you know your able to place bets, he asking if you wanna go partners on a drug business, then hes jumping in a range rover. I dont care how much bigger ny is, its definitely not as low key as wiseguys in the midwest

DiFronzo is basically retired now. If he has any business going on with Tocco it's of the legitimate kind.

Wiseguys are the same everywhere. The reason why theyre more "low key" in chicago is bc there are just less of them. I have never believed all that BS about associates being = to NY soldiers and chicago soldiers being equal to NY capos. Sure there are a bunch of young kids in ny and nj who like to brag about being in a crew but to say chicago guys are different bc they are connected to unions(supposedly) and have legit interest just isnt true, as i said wiseguys are pretty much the same everywhere.

I run a legit construction crew

Cool

You heard? And you cant see?! So they must have BIZness together. Fark, does anyone need anymore proof?!




So your contention is that NY and DETROIT have joint ventures (Based on NOTHING) going because primarily NY wiseguys could LEARN something from Detroit?
You fucking serious here? Cause this IS hysterical.



My source says you dont know your asshole from your earhole.

Apol if you spit the dummy but the faux OG talk followed by its content was too much to bear.
Word?

Calm the fuck down Sonny, no offense but the way you write is extremely annoying

Probably.

But the point stays.

I rarely understand a word of what's said on these boards anymore

My asshole is between my butt cheeks and i have 2 ear holes, one on each side of my head. So your source is garbage. As far as ny guys wanting to work with chicago or detroit, hell yea. Why wouldnt a guy wanna make money with chi/det knowing that the chances are way better hes not gonna get ratted on than working with a ny cohort. I bet this happens way more then you think. No matter how big a city is, its all about secret society. Not about flashing money. I think theres more commission meetings than we read about. All that other garbage you said, not sure what it means

The main reason some posters claim NY mob guys are not low key, while those in places like Chicago and Detroit are, is to explain away the lesser cases in those latter areas. As said above, mob guys everywhere are more or less the same. It's not like guys in NY are running around trying to get the attention of the press or the FBI. They naturally want to stay out of prison just as much as a guy in Chicago or Detroit. There's just a lot more of them, those families are a lot more active, and there's more coverage by both the press and law enforcement.

There's really little or nothing today that the NY families would meet with people in Chicago or Detroit over. At least not on an administrative level. And that's something different from, say, Bonanno soldier Vinny Faraci being involved in the strip club business with Outfit people.

then how do u explain 60-80 members telling 1000 members that las vegas is our territory?

7-8 families shared Atlantic City while Chicago had the gambling mecca to itself

chicago never did anything the same as NY so why can't u believe chicago is different than NY?

Easy, Nicky. You know I like you a lot. You're a great kid and usually very respectful. But whenever a new poster comes aboard and starts posting that Chicago is alive and well you get so excited about the prospect that you turn on the longtime posters. Just relax .

it's been pretty well documented that the ny families willingly sold off their interests for whatever reasons before las vegas boomed, but the genovese family in particular always seemed to maintain a small presence thanks to their connections to cleveland.

one thing that i think gets overblown is operations in las vegas and the skim in general. people seem to be under this false impression that the mob was taking home the lions share of the casino revenue putting aside the fact that the skim itself was divided up. i forget where, but i remember hearing a number being thrown out and while a great long-term money maker, the amount just wasn't what some make it out to be. i'd be willing to bet that juice brought in substancial amounts of money, which always seems to be overlooked.

as far as AC being split among 7-8 families, i guess the source should be looked at! philly was always the dominant family, with lessor involvement form the genovese and gambino families. either way, just geographically speaking there is bound to be more going on in AC today that vegas anyways, so score another one for the all powerful east coast mob!

Yeah I know. I was pissed off in general when I made that comment. I'm not siding/agreeing with the guy he's talking too but it was annoying me for a while.

pretty much spot on, i think I've posted this before but its a pretty good break down of the whole skim, and as FF said the numbers aren't as astronomical as you would think.


THE BOOKKEEPER WHO DID HIS JOB TOO WELL

By Roy Rowan REPORTER ASSOCIATE Andrew Kupfer
November 10, 1986
(FORTUNE Magazine) – As underboss and comptroller of the Kansas City mob, Carl DeLuna felt immense concern for his fiduciary responsibilities. ''Toughy,'' as he is known, called his meticulous record keeping ''doin' the right thing.'' It proved much too right. In January his handwritten documentation of how cash was skimmed from the Tropicana and Stardust casinos in Las Vegas sent nine gangsters to jail, including DeLuna. The ledgers revealed that between 1976 and 1979, the mob extracted $2.3 million from the two casinos' counting rooms before taxable revenues had been declared. In an October 1977 entry, DeLuna recorded the sitdown in Chicago at which top mob executives determined how the skimming operation would work. The notes proved DeLuna as reliable a recording secretary as he was a bookkeeper. Until the documents were uncovered, federal authorities never suspected that a mobster would keep a record of so important a conclave. The crime bosses who convened in Chicago agreed that couriers -- one DeLuna code-named ''Deerhunter'' and another, a Chicago policeman he called ''Stompy'' -- would deliver the loot each month to the families in Kansas City, Milwaukee, Chicago, and Cleveland. Distribution of the cash was done the same way corporations declare dividends. The mob bosses and underbosses in the four cities held shares, or ''points,'' in the Stardust and Tropicana; they received a certain amount for each share. Sometimes the shareholders received extra dividends: DeLuna's ledger shows that skimming produced a $130,000 bonus in January 1979 that he called a ''surprise number.'' The next regular dividend, however, failed to materialize. DeLuna recorded the reason: A key skimmer got sick. FBI agent William N. Ouseley, who found the books hidden in the basement, attic, and ventilating ducts of DeLuna's house, had no trouble cracking the code that camouflaged the various entries. No. 22, for example, stood for Chicago boss Joe Aiuppa. No. 21 was Aiuppa's enforcer, Jackie Cerone. The nicknames ''Fancypants'' or ''Beerman'' applied to Frank Balistrieri, the Milwaukee boss. ''ON'' (for onorevole, meaning honorable in Italian) was Nick Civella, the Kansas City Mafia chief and DeLuna's boss. DeLuna was a cautious accountant. If he did not actually see the money change hands, he said so to distance himself from any defalcations. He embarked on an important mission in 1978. His assignment: to force Allen R. Glick (''Genius''), the licensed owner of the Stardust and another casino- hotel, the Fremont, to sell out or risk the murder of his two children. The mob, which had begun to distrust Glick, thought it could skim more under another owner. In Las Vegas, DeLuna met first with three members of the Mafia's skimming team: Carl Thomas (''CT'' in the ledger page below), a gambling boss at the Tropicana; Joe Agosto (''Ceaser''), casino manager at the Tropicana; and Frank ''Lefty'' Rosenthal (''Craze''), the mob's man at the Stardust. Next he met Glick, who two days later announced his casinos were for sale. Four days after DeLuna left for Las Vegas, his wife, Sandy (''San''), followed for the weekend. True to form, DeLuna's accounts show that he paid ''personally for San's fare out and in and also for any personal purchases.'' As one of DeLuna's cronies confided to the FBI, ''He kept track of who got what, just so if anybody asked, he could show everything was right, that he hadn't grabbed a dime of that money for himself.'' The carefully kept records were only partially responsible for the jailing of Chicago's then Mafia leaders, Aiuppa and Cerone. The testimony provided by Glick, who told about the threats the mob used to force him to unload his casinos, also helped. So did the mob's avarice. The Chicagoans might never have turned up in DeLuna's ledgers if they had not tried to make the most of their role as conciliators. They tried to mediate between the bosses in Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Cleveland who got to squabbling over the casino spoils in 1975. For their efforts the Chicago mob demanded a 25% fee.

DeLuna's books depict Mafia benevolence toward both the greedy and the needy. In 1979, $1,500 went to then Kansas City Teamster chief Roy Williams, code-named ''Rancher,'' who used his influence to help arrange Teamster loans to the mob-controlled casino-hotels. The skimming money also supported a welfare program. DeLuna once noted that after he, Civella, and the others divided some $30,000, smaller amounts ranging from $1,000 to $3,000 were handed out to elderly Mafiosi and to the families of imprisoned mobsters.

Was new york ever involved with the las vegas skim? You would think they were, being the biggest mob city in the U.S

No like FiveFelonies said, New York had sold off their share of the casinos, the murder of Bugsy pretty much marked the change in power in vegas from New York to Chicago.

Although Chicago Did go to Tony Salerno when they were trying to sell the Stardust in the 80s, when steve wynn was supposedly blocking the sale, there were wiretaps in Salernos social club between Salerno and Tronlone, where Salerno was promised a a share of sale of the Stardust if he could get wynn to stop blocking the sale. But i believe Salerno was arrested before he could intervene.

The Geneveses also had soldier Filippo "Springfield Sam" Manarite who was active in Las Vegas for decades.

So who is older baby shacks from r.I. or john no nose cause I'm just saying even thou baby shacks step down as boss he still had his 2 or more strip clubs giving him 3 k a piece. He never had a legit job or company but if you read his files he was hiding out in chitown in the 70tys threw one of carlisi guys. Its in that stuff always posted but I accessed to many times. I believe there was never a meeting since the bosses in NYC since 2k Colombia made a rebound till tommy shots old crew of cop killers flipped in 2008 well after Massimo was espoused as a rat. Tommy shots probably had the baddest crew in NYC I'm sure everyone knew about there kills plus there persico connection.

If, by "skim," one means the skimming involving the Argent casinos and the Strawman case, then the answer would be no. But those weren't the first time the mob was using front men to hide their hidden ownership while skimming off the top. So the answer would be yes if one goes back during the late 1940's -late 1960's time frame.

Thanks ivy for the input. Do you think its possible commission meetings occur without the public knowing?

Yeah. We probably wouldn't have known about the 2000 meeting when we did if Sal Vitale hadn't flipped.

the commission still meets but chicago doesn't make anybody anymore?

that logic seems a little off but maybe it's just me

First, I said it was possible the Commission still met. If one wants to consider emissaries from the NYC the Commission.

Second, when did I positively say the Outfit doesn't make anyone anymore?

You really are just a troll now, cook. Constantly defending the honor of an organization that wouldn't let you clean their toilets. Congrats.

oh yeah because the outfit doesn't do business with black people because they're black

you scream about fbi qoutes like it's gospel but only when it pertains to chicago

if they send 5 gerbils into a sandbox and say it's a NYC commission meeting then it's such

That's not what he implied. And sure, as long as there's money to be made, they'll do business with Black people.

But the general feeling among Italian Americans in that line of work is that Blacks are animals. I repeat that, Fucking ... Animals. That's why it's so confusing that you, a Black man, hold them in such high regard .

Seriously cook, listen to Ivy and PB. And PB would know especially. And Italian gangsters aren't the only ones who consider blacks beneath them, the older Irish generations in Boston, especially in places like Charlestown and Southie fucking despise blacks.

@pizzaboy & @joeschmo



do u think i give a flying fuck about what a racist feels about black people?

the mafia calls black people animals but doesn't say shit about pedophile priest

very hypocritical

We fucking despise black people in Jersey to.

Why the hostility towards Black people?

The Irish have a lot in common with the Blacks. They were called white n*ggers by the English. Up until the 60's, there were signs advertising work baring the message "no blacks, no dogs, no Irish".

The Italians too were looked down upon as a lower class of people.

Us Irish, Italians and Blacks have got to stick together. We have a shared history of persecution from a shared enemy.

And this strengthens your argument as a black man apologist for chicago mafia racists and thugs how?

@dellacroce


yall just despise the thought of a black man making your (wife/daughter/sisters/etc.) orgasm

that's where the "hatred" stems from

Nope, but nice try, just the fact that they be some ignant ass mudda fuckas! And every single one of your posts support that line of thinking.

This thread has gone a little off topic... we will be right back after a word from one of our sponsors.

What year are you living in exactly? Most of the Irish need not apply stuff is myth and proven so many times. It appeared twice advertising in a century. They were victimized by the British, and experienced the hardships of immigrating in the 1800s, but this comparative victimization stuff is just garbage. Up the 60s is just complete insane. By the 60s, the irish controlled much of intercity politics and nearly every police department in the big cities.

Rather than whining about their condition, both irish and italian became successful groups that preform as well as any other a long, long time ago. Trying to make them into grievance groups now is pretty out of touch.

I bet Richard Gere would love to be in that sandbox with the gerbils...

Has their ever been a black guy at a commission meeting?

Well if Dennis Hopper's character in True Romance is to be believed - then yes - literally every single person at a commission meeting is carrying black blood coursing through their veins.

Just saying when I'm a father of a daughter any piece of shit who abuses her will have his front teeth knocked out and worse regardless of whether he's black. However if she brings home some mook with gold teeth, tattoos, slang English, and saggy pants this mick won't tolerate that.

And don't go to certain Irish neighborhoods in Massachusetts and expect a warm welcome if you're black. There are certain pubs in Boston you just don't go to unless you're full on Irish Catholic.

That's quite a stereotype to paint of a potential scenario in your future. Try to be a little more open-minded. I'm black and don't like people (Black or white) saying the word Mook, I find it offensive.

I heard all 5 ny families, chicago and detroit were the only families at the 04' commission meeting in traverse city michigan.

Whoever told you that has a wild imagination. You can be sure there was never any such Commission meeting there between all those families in 2004.

Could it be true that alphonse trucchio was at the 04' commission meeting?wouldn't he be in his 20's at that time? Also, a guy from sicily there? If i had to take a guess, with all those different families, it had to be a meeting about drugs.

Why would you think Trucchio was there? He was still only an acting captain at that point and very young.

I would guess that over 90% of what happened in the mafia is never documented. Over half of what is documented is later proven to be false. That said it us unlikely that there is any interfamily business outside of the northeast these days because the mob is no longer a national power

Exactly.

the reason i asked the question was because after scott bernstein responded back to my email about the '04 commission meeting, he said gianni nicchi from sicily attended the meeting. he also said truchio and nicchi had ties with each other and were extremely close. he said trucchio didnt attend the meeting but the two hung out at a greektown casino for dinner

Give it a rest troll, stop making things up.

Bobbyvegas, that was not a commission meeting and if it is the meeting I am thinking of in Detroit that you and Bernstein is talking about, then the meeting was in 05', with the families from Chicago, Detroit, and Milwaukee, a member of Buffalo that is retired. and two Sicilians, one of which was Gianni Nicchi. The highest rank was a capo from Detroit, we do not know what the meeting was about, because of Nicchi history of dealing drugs, most would assume that was the topic, but we do not know what it was about till someone flips who was there, or second hand knowledge of the meeting which might not be all that accurate.

I'm think after nick skins recorcored uncle Joe and the gambino families most be weary plus he recorded the Boston boss and Merlin.in Florida who would even want to sit with another boss after massinos treachery. Bosses gonna start sending soldiers to inter family meetings cover there ass. Read the guy Matty horse nephem threaten the son of capo fat Dennis from the Colombia we never now how the sit down went but that how shit is today.

i dont know what went down in '05. this happened in '04. maybe what your saying happpened in '05

your from england talking on a mob forum. whats wrong with you?

[/quote]the reason i asked the question was because after scott bernstein responded back to my email about the '04 commission meeting, he said gianni nicchi from sicily attended the meeting. he also said truchio and nicchi had ties with each other and were extremely close. he said trucchio didnt attend the meeting but the two hung out at a greektown casino for dinner [/quote]

Give it a rest troll, stop making things up. [/quote]


your from england talking on a mob forum. whats wrong with you? [/quote]

Biggest cop out ever...You're from Las Vegas making things up about mobsters, you al so claimed to me you had a source in South Florida on this subject

What's wrong with you?

Actually, you can compete a Chicago soldier to a NY capo because almost every soldier in Chicago has their own crew/clique and the Capo is like the boss who works for the top three guys in Chicago (DiFronzo - if not someone else- and his underboss and Cons)

I have to concur Pizzaboy. The old school Italians looked down on African American people as sludge and zoo animals. Why is Cook a fanboy of people who would have spit on him?

Not every Chicago soldier does have their own crew and plenty of NY soldiers have a crew of associates they oversee.

@bugsyvegas


the same old school italians that ran from their neighborhoods because of fear?

the same tough guys that ran for the hills when a black lawyer moved on the block

Bugsy Vegas is new here. But he's been a welcome addition, so I'll field this one for him.

The Italians that "ran" weren't running from the Black lawyers and professionals who moved in (all four of them). They ran from Blacks like you and yours. And it wasn't out of fear, it was out of disgust. Because, really, who would want you for a neighbor?

If you moved next door to a Bryant Gumbel or a Bill Cosby, they wouldn't just "run for the hills," as you so eloquently put it. They'd charter a flight to the next time zone.

Now I'm going back to my vacation. You can go back to your PlayStation 3. Oops, I'm sorry about that, Cook. I didn't mean to offend you. I'm sure you already have the PlayStation 4, at the expense of having child support for your Baby Mama.

C'mon, pb, you're better than that.

Dont you mean 'better dan dat?'



I jest, I jest.

so heathenistic animals had enough money live amongst criminals and their enablers?

people can't live in working class neighborhoods unless they themselves work

Please get back on topic in this thread.

Amazing.

disagree. i guess the big actions are all nearly complete and rightful documented, examples like castellano/3-captains rubout come to my mind.. Sure, the low scores like robbing a candy store are not documented, but who wanna know that? And still, even events like that are known, when the robber is pretty well-known. There was a guy pretty high-up who got caught stealing some candy or so, forgot his name

ive told this before and ill say it again. i noticed you never responded before and I wasnt surprised.

my grandfather was the youngest of 17 kids (2 died early). largest in new haven, never on welfare. google it. in the late 60s they were rioting everywhere in the cities. new haven was no exception especially after the black panther verdict. and my gfather and his kids had to throw sticks of dynamite off the roof to take care of their family. they were one of the last italian families to move out of The Hill section of new haven.

my guess is not too many lawyers were looting. if you knew your history or had any clue id love to debate you but guess what? youre just another clown with an opinion that means less than the spit in my mouth.

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/BE065429/amarone-family
my grandfather is the youngest sitting on my great grandfathers lap

never on welfare, mind you different day. kids left school early to work. but that was the mindset. cook, my guess is your mindset is slightly different.

@cheech

so you're juslt gonna ignore SC whose a fair guy with your belligerence

i'm sure god applauded everytime your grandaddy threw a stick of dynamite

OK, I tried. Nobody is saying you have to like each other but I don't think it's too much to ask you guys and gals to try to show some civility to each other.

This thread has run its course. It's now closed.