Arm,

Is Turk Zogby still alive? Russ still run that crew? Heard they closed their social club across from Castronovo's, on Bleecker. That was wide out in the open last time I was in that area.

Any truth that 2 guys, young guys, roiders even, were made out of the Utica crew within the last 10 years? I'd venture to guess Utica has more made guys operating cohesively than Syracuse or Rochester, right?

It may be largely an academic question but "Rochester faction" would probably be more correct, technically speaking. In his book, The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Mafia, Capeci refers to them as the Rochester "Group" (as opposed to "family") and points out that the Commission never approved them forming their own family.

I believe the Turk is still alive but inactive. I hear rumors that they were ready tio reopen the Angelo Grillo case and charge him, but nothing ever came of that. The social club across from Phil's is closed but the one on Bleeker and Mohawk is still very much active.
Russ still runs the crew day to day, but has never been made an actual Capo, he might hold the record for the longest "acting" title in the history of the LCN.
The two guys that were made were part of the crew from the old Gym on Whitesboro street (Rick P and Frankie M)
Rick was a disaster when I knew him back in the day, but he has grown into a really right guy, Frankie was always loose cannon, but I am told he has settled down and is more stand up in his old age as well. I really shouldn’t talk I was a young dumb ass in those days too. If the walls in the back room of Whitey’s could talk...:)
Yes the Utica crew is bigger than Syracuse and better st up than Rochesster. The old school guys from the bowling ally on Erie Blvd in east Syracuse (Andaloro, Salarno, Sabastian, Torio, Grenio, ) are all gone, but the new generation are some capable kids. "John J" (The restaurant guy from the airport) runs that crew. Lots of book, shy and women, and they have money on the street from Verona in a partnership with Utica.
The biggest shocker to me was, that that lowlife Matty Cuda who tried to suck up to the Colombos back in the 80s was charged with beating up his mother (I knew Joya, she was a sweet lady)and if I heard right, child molestation????
To bad the guy who shot him in front of Granmaldis was such a bad aim

Were those two clubs open at the same time? Same people go there or different members?

There were 3 clubs back in the day, and a host of hang outs
The one accross from Castranovas was more the young bucks like me, spent a lot of time there.
The one on Bleeker and Mohawk was for the old timers, in fact it was sort of an honor to be invited there or be allowed to stay if you didn't have a specific reason to be there.
The club on 2nd avanue was the Colombo's/Buffalino's club.
The hang outs were the Gym on the west side, The Regency on james, The Elbow room on South St, Whiteys way up on Bleeker, TRs and Rosies after hours, and of course Uncle Henry's way back in the day.

A question: after the A-B wars did Stanley Valenti ever go to jail? I read his trial was separated from others because of his health, but what happened later?

Gingello,

Thanks SO MUCH for this post. I used to go to school and live in Rochester and am quite fascinated by the whole history there.

A few questions and statements:

- Rene Picarretto is still alive as of July 2013 at 89 years old but doesn't look too good.

- "Tony G" who is Sammy's brother is Anthony Jr's dad and he was considered a "soldier" and also a Labor Union lead.

- Is Loren Piccaretto also know as "Larry" Piccaretto who works at Original Bay Goodman Pizza?

- What ever happened to Anthony Jr's bar "untouchables"

- any other info you can give on the Gingellos??

Thanks so much!!

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I know he died in 2001, and as far as I know he never did jail time except for a stint many years ago

Here is some info on Costenze and Frank Valenti, both made in Pittsburgh's family by John LaRocca, and Costenze "Stanley" Valenti was the son in law of Pittsburgh Capo Antonio Ripepi (Ripepi's other son in law was John Bazzano Jr.)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=114394&relPageId=10

Thanks for the info JCB. The Valenti's lived a charmed life. They really did not have to answer for anything they did, and they retired rich. One small note Frank died in 2008. Guess he was not dying back in the 70s and 80s lol.

Olddirtyfish, I really like your avatar. Sammy G was as good as they get. Yes Larry is Loren's nickname. He does not make pizza as much anymore. A neat side note is that almost any independent pizzeria in Rochester has ties to the old Rochester Crew. Larry has a piece of Bay and Goodman (not on paper), since his old man loaned them money back in the day.

SharpieOne peaked my interest in what really went on with Joe Ladolce so I did a little digging. He did plead guilty but he ended up with probation, counseling, and a fine. The kid gets the rest of his life in therapy. If that was not enough, Joe did not have to register as a sex offender either. So I am sure you guys ask why is he still making book and doing his various other hustles with the other guys? The answer is that the other guys bought his bull crap that he was framed by the cops because he is a made guy, and that what cops do frame people. I also found out that Joe's dad used to sexually abuse him, his sisters, grand kids, nephews, so apparently the scumbag does not fall far from the tree. Joe was always known for his taste in young girls, so the little boy thing surprised everyone. I will not go into details but what he did to that kid deserved more than probation. If Sammy G was alive he would of cut this guy's prick off and fed it to him. I doubt anyone could argue with that, I know murder is wrong but some people deserve it. Maybe that should be a thread mob scumbags who deserved to die lol.

I guess no one from the kids family went after him?

What a fucking scumbag thanks for the info fellas.

Yeah they never went after him since they found out who he was. The fact that he got such a light sentence scared the crap out of the boy's family. One of Joe's sister's actually contributes to a website where people who recover from child abuse share stories and thoughts. If anyone remembers from Georgia Durante's book, that Joe Lamendola molested his daughter as well. The Rochester crew has more pedophiles than any other family ever. Unless anyone can think of another?

You got any info or anecdotes on some of the formerly more powerful guys who passed away? Like Russotti or Amico? It seems like the powerful guys in the crew were all originally from the north side of the area like n goodman and moved to ironedquoit when the neighborhood turned to shit (or when they started to make money) . Any guys from the west side? There's a ton of Italians on the west side, assuming most came from Lyell ave, jay street, maple street areas. I think there are a few gingello in gates or Greece actually

Oh yeah and also how come a few guys , piccaretto for example, we're listed as bonanno soldiers on some older crime commission reports?

Hey tt120. My best guest on why Rene and Tommy Marrotta have been listed as made members in the Bonannos is that they both spent some time in NYC, and both were observed meeting with Bonanno guys. The Feds knew he was a made guy, and at the time they heard he was asking for their support against Valenti. Rochester is a strange place. You have guys that were made by different families so it has always been hard to decipher what is going on. I think they thought that Rene became a Bonanno when he asked for their help. This is just my best guess.

I do have a short anecdote to share. I have more to share in the future as well. This was back in the very early 1980s, right before Russotti and company went to the clink. I was walking down the street on Jay with my mother, when I observed who I learned later was Dominic Taddeo attacking a heavy set Italian man. Dom was raining blows on him and blood was all over his face and fists. Meanwhile within eye shot of the beating is a police officer directing traffic. An old woman ran up to the man to report the beating, and he looked at who was fighting and then turned the other way and continued directing traffic. When it became clear the cop was not going to help she ran to Rene's clubhouse.

I will never forget who came out. It was basically the who's who of Rochester, Rene, Tony G, Angelo Amico, Red Russotti, and several others. Red and Rene gave Dom a look that put chills down the spine of everyone who saw it. The fight stopped and they called an ambulance to report a traffic accident.

This is really a great thread!! Thanks Gingello..

Did you know Sammy? Any stories you can share about him?

Do you have any photos you can share?

Also still wondering about Anthony Jr's bar "Untouchables"?

Some other notes I just remembered is that Anthony Chirico is into martial arts now and this knife fighting (can't remember the name of it)are of it.. LaMendola is actually on facebook and I have no idea why he wasn't dealt with for his actions..

Tom Taylor and Tom Torpey are both still alive... Would love to hear some stories about those guys!

Hey whats up Fish. I really enjoy talking about the old days in Rochester. My wife is the niece of one of the famous Rochester guys I have mentioned so I will ask her if I can post any photos. I do not want to post them with out asking, I would be sleeping on the couch for a month lol.

To answer your other question Tony Jr. sold his bar. There were a few fights there and basically the place got a bad reputation. The cops always give the fellas a lot of crap even now if they open a bar that is officially in their names. Thus why they have nothing in their own names.

I was pretty young when I met Sammy so the only stories I have are from when I was a young kid. He was actually my CYO basketball coach before he died. I also trained in martial arts with Tony Chirico as well. He gets to practice his martial arts regularly if you catch my drift lol.

A funny story about Torpey and Taylor is that when they were kids they used to bully kids in their neighborhood by grabbing them by their ankles and shaking them upside down in order to shake out the kids milk money lol. Even when they were young everyone knew where they would end up in life.

One more side note the Joe Lamendola on facebook is not the same guy. Joe Lamendola committed suicide years ago.

Hello everyone I am reviving the Rochester thread in order to clarify some things about the Alphabet or ABC War. I thought it was time for some actual information not just stories from the land of imagination. The War began as a direct result of the Jimmy Massaro murder. The current hierarchy of the Rochester Faction was indicted and sentenced to long prison terms based partly upon fabricated evidence compiled by the Rochester Police. Before Russotti, Gingello, Piccarretto, Marotta, and the others went away to prison they chose Thomas Didio, Tommy Marotta’s cousin as acting boss. He was chosen because Didio was a good soldier, who did what he was told, and he was seen as being a mindless gorilla. However, when the administration went to prison, they found Didio was not following orders, and he told everyone in Rochester that he was the new boss. Once the administration was released, because their convictions were tossed out due to fabricated evidence, a conflict soon began which split the family. The conflict raged from the late 1970s until the late 1980s.

How do we know what happened during the war? We know about the war from police reports, FBI reports, and if their word is not good enough, you have several informants both made members and unmade associates that have given us chapter and verse about the ABC War and about traditional organized crime in Rochester, in general.. These informants include made members Joseph Lamendola, Spike LaNovarra, Anthony Oliveri, and Angelo Monachino.

I grew up and lived in Rochester for many years. I have never heard of any Colombo members operating in Rochester aside from a Wikipedia mention of an imaginary made guy operating in Rochester. Furthermore, I have never heard of any Colombo associates operating in Buffalo either. Buffalo, as far as I know, was not directly involved in the ABC War. Yes, Buffalo had joint gambling operations with the Rochester Faction. Yes, some members of the Rochester Faction were made by Buffalo members, but that was the extent of their involvement. I have spoken with some of the aforementioned made members and they all agree the ABC War was a strictly Rochester conflict. Perhaps there were some conflicts in Utica or farther East that people called the ABC War, but if that even happened, it had nothing to do with Rochester. I can provide some additional sources about the ABC War if anyone is interested. Here is a link that gives background on the war. http://americanmafia.com/Cities/Rochester.html

Thanks Gingello , appreciate the info , great stuff and nice job on the bump to clarify conflicting info / stories . Thanks and keep the info flowing

No problem DB. I just got tired of all these BS threads about the ABC War. I do not know why the poster who is making these posts cannot go back to his World of Warcraft or whatever fantasy forum he belongs to. People come to this forum for real information not to read some posts by teenagers pretending to be wise guys. My two cents and I think almost everyone on this forum would agree.

Nice transpose cut and paste...Your problem is,you think the ABC warss happend in a vaccum, and only in Rochester
Son, you could not be more wrong....It claimed casualties from Dutchess County NY to Utica to Syracuse to Florida
No Columbos operating in Buffalo territory or in the ABC wars??
That IS funny
You seem to like Google searches...Google Dominic Bretti, John D'Amico,Danatto Nappi and Ed Teeter Nole. Find out what happend to Al Marrone, Joey DeQueno, Angelo Grillo and his wife dawn, Matty Cuda, Carla Faliciano. Find out who Phil Tarduno and Reigo Martingano were. John Julian, Tony Mastroco, Dennis Pritchard, find out who they were and what they had to do with Rochester. Find out who Andaloro, Salarno, Sabastian, Torio, and Grenio were and where and how they operated and were a thorn in Frank Velent's side.
Educate yourself.
Then come back with questions, instead or pretending you know what you are talking about...becuse you don't

Thanks for posting, I've enjoyed all your rochester info and anecdotes so far. Outside of the five families they are the most interesting for me to read about , mostly because of my cousins up there I am familiar with a lot of the establishments mentioned in these stories as well as the names.

I know the terms "a team", "b team", etc and the name "alphabet war" was coined by a cop up there when he was putting together charts of who was aligned with who once people were getting killed. There is an interview with this cop from RochesterHomePage.net and he explains this, along with some other stuff about the war.

Again thanks for the info and if you ever have more stories I'd love to hear them. One guy that there's not too much info about is Russotti. I know he was the top guy and seemed like he had a lot of guys loyal to him. Where was he from? North East or was he a west sider? A lot of the guys dead or in jail still have a ton of relatives up there, especially on the west side suburbs, but I've never heard of the Russotti name

Gingello...whats your fav restaurant up there?.
I'm gonna be going up there in late April / early May for a few days. Can't wait to hit up Antoinettas or maybe the new spot on its way to becoming a local legend, Tony D's.

Also Gingello, you ever hear or read anything about Italian (not Italian American) OC happening in Rochester? I ask because there is a decent number of sicilian immigrants in the area that has been growing in recent years. Some own businesses on Park Ave too

Red Russotti was either from Brighton or Henrietta, (my memory is failing at the moment), but like the rest of the breakaway Rochester faction, he was a made Buffalo guy who sided with Velenti and Gingello in an attempt to create the "Rochester Family". I think at one point he was the self styled "underboss"...something which the commission never recognized.

if the main rochester guys were technically made Buffalo guys, were they all made by Magaddino? was there a buffalo capo or two who the rochester guys reported to? or was the top guy in Rochester technically a Buffalo capo, who was direct with the Buffalo boss?

for example, Valenti was the Rochester family's (disputed) boss. but really, he was just a capo for the Buffalo family? and even though he had his underboss, consigliere, and capos in Rochester, technically these guys were just Buffalo soldiers in his crew?

if true, this seems similar to how the north jersey faction of the Luccheses operated.

but I was also under the impression that Valenti broke off from Buffalo, with no problems, and rochester was allowed to do its own thing (own making ceremonies, administration / structure, etc)

where did you hear that Russotti was from Henrietta ? just curious because a lot of those older guys grew up together and moved out to the suburbs later on. kinda strange if he was from the suburbs originally.

Hi TT. You are right Red was not born in Henrietta. I believe he was born in Irondequoit. I could be wrong, but I will try to verify exactly where. It could have been on the west side of Rochester. These guys all pretty much lived in either Irondequoit or on the west side of the city near Jay Street.
I would have to say my two favorite Italian restaurants are Antoinetta’s and Perlo’s (East Rochester). Mainly because I have known those families for so long that whenever I have gone in there they cook special for me. You still get that feel at many of these restaurants that you are not just another mouth to feed, but a guest. This is becoming a rare thing as the Macaroni Grill and the Olive Garden phase out many small restaurants. Thank goodness Rochester still has a decent size Italian American population that still cares about quality.

I will now answer the main part of your question, about who made who, and where Rochester’s allegiance was. If you think of Rochester as being a faction and not a family, things make more sense. Rochester was originally a crew under Buffalo. However, once the Valenti brothers, who were made in Pittsburgh came to town they slowly began to take over the rackets. I would say Buffalo’s control over Rochester ended when Giacomo “Jake” Russo was killed, dismembered, and tossed in the Genesee River. His remains have never been found. Once Russo was eliminated, Valenti met with members of the Buffalo family, and this led to Rochester splitting from Buffalo and being aligned with Pittsburgh. Later Valenti, was overthrown as he was stealing from the family. Valenti was overthrown mainly because he know he was caught stealing, he knew Gingello and his guys would kill him, and finally Rene Piccaretto and gotten support from the Bonanno Family.

I mentioned this earlier that I hypothesize that the reason you see Rene’s name on some older Bonanno family charts is because he had gone to NYC and established an alliance with them. I believe the Feds heard about this and thus they listed him as a Bonanno. Rochester has always been funny. After Rochester broke off, Buffalo still received money from some joint gambling operations but that was it. Buffalo was making enough money that they did not need Rochester.

I have heard about some people around Park Avenue who are Sicilian and supposedly have connections to OC in Italy but I have not heard of them being active in Rochester. There is a family in East Rochester that is related to the Morabito N’Drangheta Family. In fact, they have the same name Morabito. They are not active in crime but they are related to Giuseppe Morabito. I will get back to you with some more stories soon.

I was watching Pineapple Express the other day and it reminded me of a story from Rochester. There was this guy who lived in Rochester (this was around 1980) off of Monroe Avenue. Monroe Avenue for those that have not been to Rochester is frequented by a lot of street people, artistic/hippie types, and drug addicts. At the time most of the activity down there was focused around Monroe Show World and Adult movie theatre.. It was alleged that the Rochester guys had a piece of the theatre. In its heyday, there were drugs and prostitutes being peddled 24 hours a day there.

Anyway I digress. The guy I previously mentioned was your typical dirty hippie type. He looked exactly like James Franco’s character in Pineapple Express, and his mannerisms were the same. The guy called himself Major Tony Nelson (the character from Bewitched for you younger readers). Somehow Tony came up with a duffel bag full of weed that must have weighed at least 40lbs. Tony usually peddled dime bags of weed and hits of LSD that were more often than not fake. There are guys like Tony in every city, a small time hustler that somehow ended up with a big score. The problem was he wanted to sell all of the weed at once and he came up with the idea (most likely while he was highly “medicated”) to try to sell the weed to the Rochester wise guys. Tony takes his huge bag to Rene’s clubhouse on Jay Street and about a half hour later he stumbles out bruised and bloody with no bag.

At this point tony is pissed. It just so happens he was friends with some local bikers who call themselves The Lords. The Lords are still around. They are a support group for the Rochester chapter of the Hells Angels. Tony goes to his friend, a Lord, and tells him he got robbed and that if his friend helps him get his weed back, he will give him 10lbs for free. Tony did not mention who robbed him. Tony’s friend gets a few of his biker buddies and they head down to Jay Street about 10 guys deep. Tony is riding on the back of his friend’s bike, and when they arrive, Tony jumps off the bike, points to the club house and tells everyone how the wise guys robbed him. The Lords immediately drove off and told Tony he was on his own. Tony stood looking around trying to comprehend what happened. It must have taken him 45 minutes before he realized there was nothing he could do so he wandered off. There was actually a time in Rochester, believe it or not, where the wise guys had more influence than the police.

Lol like that one Gingello.

Here is some great information about mafia activity in Rochester. this list brings back a lot of memories. I know about 80% of the people mentioned on here so if anyone has questions let me know. I have to disagree with the author's conclusion that none of the old made guys from the Rochester faction are active as I know first hand this is not the case. Even so it is great information. I want to thank Hairy Knuckles for posting the link to this site on the Black Hand Forum. This has great information about other mafia families as well.

http://www.mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Rochester

Why doesn't my post show up?