In mob folklore, Vito Genovese called a commission meeting and planned on being crowned capo de tutti capi at Apalachin:

Why would charter members on the commission (Bonanno, Maggadino, Profaci) recognize a boss of bosses, when the title didn't exist?

What authority would a boss of bosses have, as every commission member had one vote?

Also...

Did Meyer Lansky (along with Costello and Lucky) tip off the local authorities, or did Officer Croswell discover the meeting on his own?

1. I don't think Vito was going to proclaim himself "boss of bosses". Where did you read this? By getting rid of Costello, he had already made himself the most powerful don anyway.

2. Nobody really knows for sure but I chalk it up to just intuitive thinking and action on the part of Croswell. I'm sure it was probable that Lansky and Costello were involved but at that point, neither one of them (or Lucky for that matter) were too concerned with LCN dealings. Lucky was deported and being closely watched by FBN and the Italian police, Costello had escaped an assassin's bullet and Lansky wasn't as concerned with the goings-on in LCN as many books and publications would make it seem.

the dead friend of vito Genovese buster ardito was caught on a bug 2004 talking to his lawyer friend pete peluso something about joe bonanno being or trying to be boss of bosses. joe held all the power circa 1960. vito went to jail, Gambino just getting started, profici had the smallest family, luchese we just don't know much about and joe planting flags everywhere.

Out of interest did any of this come from "The Prime Minister of the Underworld" book? I've not actually read it myself but i know someone who has, and Toodoped posted this thread about the book - http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=713596 . As you know i suspect since i've read your posts and you seem very knowledgeable on LCN, Maranzano was the last in NY.

I think the other titles were pure media stuff, the families didnt use those kind of titles anyway.

Someone posted FBI files from maryferrell, and from them it seemed like from at least the early 60's Maggadino was against Bonanno. I've got nothing to base this on other than Maggadinos clear hatred for Joe in these docs that, Buffalo were teamed with the Gambinos and Luchesses, also possibly the Genovese i'm not clear on their situation at the time.

Camarel, yes, I read the George Wolf biography and recommend it, despite the glamorizing of Costello. I'm currently rereading Tim Newark's biography of Luciano and it's mentioned in there. Newark's biography also listed Lansky as the whistle blower, quoting Doc Stacher as the source. I also read Mafia Summit, by Gil Reavill.

On a related note, did anyone read that attendees brought envelopes for tribute to Vito?

Again, I found the concept of Genovese being recognized as the boss of bosses to be ridiculous, leading to my thread here....

What do you think about this part of the book - http://books.google.mk/books?id=JugCAAAA...own&f=false ? It just makes me think of it as mob fantasy similar to "The last testament of lucky Luciano" book.

Edit: Where did you read this - attendees brought envelopes for tribute to Vito?

Camarel, I found the Genovese/Costello prison sit down to be the largest piece of fiction in Wolf's book.

However, nothing can match the silliness (in The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano) of Judge McCook in Luciano's cell; in tears and on his knees begging Lucky to remove the Sicilian curse from his family...

in 1956 Carmine Galente was caught speeding coming from or going tot he 56 commission meeting.
there was a bid push by local political people to get the charges dropped, this led to an association with Joe Barberra, and as a result the police started keeping an eye on him.

The police overheard Joe jr renting rooms at a local hotel in 57 and figured something was up....

Here are some examples. I'm not saying that these are all reputable, but it's been reported enough for me to ask about it.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/genovese1/6.html
"Vito Genovese had pushed for the Apalachin Conference, as it later became known, and its generally believed that this was where he planned to have himself crowned boss of all bosses."

http://crime.about.com/od/gangsters/a/genovese.htm
His next goal was to take over the Luciano family and become "The Boss of Bosses" in the Mafia.....On November 14, 1957, Genovese reportedly coordinated what became known as the Appalachian Meeting, where he expected to be named Boss of Bosses.

http://www.carpenoctem.tv/mobsters/vito-genovese/
Genovese probably even expected to be anointed boss of bosses at the meeting, but it ended in a total fiasco when authorities raided the affair and scooped up dozens of Mafia figures.

Lucky Luciano, by Tim Newark
Genovese wanted a coronation to celebrate the beginning of his reign as boss of bosses and he chose a stone hilltop mansion at Apalachin......he wanted them to recognize him as their leader and accept a period of peace under his rule

I'll include some sources, which led to my question. However, I'm not declaring these sources to be accurate:

Lucky Luciano, by Tim Newark
None of Lanky's closest friends went to the meetings. What he did was tip off the local sheriff about the meetings.
"Nobody to this day knows that it was Meyer who arranged for Genovese's humiliation"- Doc Stacher

http://thenewyorkmafiabosses.blogspot.com/2013/01/boss-of-bosses.html
It fact, some have asserted that the Apalachin
Conference of 1957 was called to crown Genovese as
the new boss of bosses....
A police raid broke up the
meeting, and strong evidence later showed the con-
ference was sabotaged by an alliance of Lansky,
Luciano (from exile in Italy) and Frank Costello — all
three not present at the meeting — and Carlo Gam-
bino...

According to statements attributed to Luciano, Gam-
bino had gone there in case the meeting somehow
proceeded, planning to denounce Genovese's ambi-
tions and to refuse to hand him any envelope of
money as a symbol of his authority.

This did not stop the press from calling Genovese
the boss of bosses, but if he was, his reign was to
prove even less enduring than that of the unfortunate
Maranzano.

http://thenewyorkmafiabosses.blogspot.com/2013/01/apalachin-conference.html
The fact that Vito Genovese became the emperor caught
without his clothes and was destroyed at the meeting
suggests a setup. Through hindsight — and the revela-
tions made by such figures as Lucky Luciano and
Doc Stacher that the police were tipped off and the
meeting sabotaged — it became almost impossible to
reject insider foul play.

Newspaper speculation suggested that the
Apalachin meeting was intended as a forum for
presenting Genovese with his "boss of bosses"
crown. Much was also made of the fact that a total
of $300,000 was found on the arrested crime
bosses; "envelope money" perhaps to be given to
Genovese? More likely the money was a total of
typical fat wads carried by dons. And Carlo Gam-
bino did make it known that he brought no money
for Genovese.

Last Testament of Lucky Luciano
"I told Carlo to go to the meet, but not to bring no envelope. He took my advice....he told me later, that if things had come to a showdown, he was gonna stand up up and tell Vito to go to hell, that he didn't have the chance of a snowball in hell that the council would name him top capo"- Luciano

Nice stories all, but the problem here is common to all readings about the Mob: most are either pure BS or are rumors repeated from book to book. No one took notes at the '57 Apalachin meeting so we'll never know for sure. What is interesting is that there was a commission meeting the year before, so the '57 meeting must have been something special. What might be credible? In '57, Genovese arranged for Anastasia to be assassinated, and for Costello to retire after his skull was grazed by a bullet fired by The Chin. So, it's credible that the meeting was held, in part, to anoint Genovese as boss of the family formerly headed by Costello, and to bless Gambino as Anastasia's successor. Another possibility: to approve drug-trafficking. That might explain why Bonanno wasn't at the meeting (his close associate, Gaspar DeGregorio, was). Bonanno earlier that year had set up his own drug trafficking apparatus with Luciano in Sicily, so he and Genovese might have been rivals in the drugs business.

Did Lansky blow the whistle on the meeting? That piece of BS was touted by Rich Cohen, in his BS-laden book, "Tough Jews." I doubt that Lansky would have bit the hands of 80 or so dangerous men who fed him.

Good point. Although Lanksy didn't like Genovese, he supposedly supported Anastasia being clipped because Albert was trying to muscle in on his Havana rackets. And I believe that Lansky had a better working relationship with Carlo.

Why would Doc Stacher have lied about Lansky sabotaging the Apalachin meeting. Did his quotes originally come from Tough Jews?



This is interesting, because it would provide a motive on why Luciano/Lansky would want to kill the Apalachin conference.

I find Bonanno's meeting in Sicily interesting. While I have no doubt his intentions were to set up an international drug distribution ring, there have been conflicting accounts of Lucky's involvement. Some reports have Lucky as a major player in narcotics, after being deported to Italy.

On the other hand, according to Tim Newark, Luciano was a fake gangster at this point, and was shut out of Bonanno's meetings in Sicily. Supposedly, Lucky's powerful ally in Sicily, Don Calo, had passed away and the young gangsters weren't interested in paying homage to the old timers. How ironic, lol.

Another version of Bonanno's meeting in Sicily was from Tomasso Buschetta- a Sicilian gangster, who later became a turncoat. He claimed that Luciano set up a dinner with both Bonanno and Buschetta. And this is supposedly where they hashed out the details. This version seems to be the least credible.

The most plausible reason IMO.



The Mafia was involved in drug trafficking since the 1920s so why would they needed to approve it in 1957?



Indeed. If Lansky ratted them out he would have been killed for it.

I think Croswell did have some kind of a personal beef with LaBarbera. Reading through some of the articles published on the raid and the interviews on him, he does come across as a braggart. Like he finally got his long sought 15 minutes in fame, giving him a great personal satisfaction and at the same time getting the chance to nail LaBarbera. That´s the feeling I get. He was aware of the mobster meeting that had taken place the year before but that had slipped through his hands. From time to time, he was conducting surveillance on the LaBarbera estate. So I doubt that there was a tip off.

I believe there were two major issues that were being discussed at Apalachin. These two issues needed the attention of all the bosses around the country:

- The murder attempt on Costello and the murder of Anastasia. All of the bosses needed to know why violence had been used. Especially those bosses who had had business dealings with Costello and Anastasia and who had been close to them. This was important because letting them know eased their minds.

- The other major issue was the banning of drugs, across the board. In reality though, this ban never worked because many soldiers and captains on the street level were looking to quickly enrich themselves, especially the ones who had recently been made.

No one was crowned the boss of bosses at the meeting. Neither was anybody supposed to be crowned the boss of bosses at the meeting. No one had the slightest ambition of becoming the boss of bosses, after the creation of the Commission back in 1931. Can you guys imagine the wrath of other bosses these kind of ambitions would lead to?

I find it hard to believe that Gambino would have challenged Genovese openly like that. Especially in public. Not that he was afraid or anything but he was a quiet, deceiving and calculating man. It seems he would have smiled and said nothing and then plotted behind his back to extract his revenge or set the record straight.

I don't think Genovese wanted to make himself boss of bosses, the previous two gentlemen who tried that wound up dead. While Vito's a ruthless prick, he's not exactly stupid. I think '57 was vito trying to throw his weight around; because while there never was a boss of bosses after '31, there was a consistant unofficial pecking order on the commission depend who had the power and who had the right allies. I think Vito was trying to call a commission meeting to show that he was the man in the drivers seat on the commission now which then gets wrongly interpreted as trying to make himself capo di tutti capi. Bonnano talks in his autobiography about the changing tides of alliances on the commission during this time peroid. Maggadino and Bonnano did have a falling out (this is covered also in joe's book, he clearly does not like his cousin) which I think played a big part in the meddling by other families that lead to the banana's war (although I don't think anyone every believed for one second that joe's "disapearance" was a kidnapping by maggadino)

I think Vito made himself boss of luciano/masseria family and they officially named gambino head of the mangano family at the '57 meeting to put the costello/genovese and mangano/anastasia beefs to bed.

The sicily thing is interesting, there's always talk of that being where Bonnano set up a major heroin deal, he may have, but I think there are arrest records of made guys that indicate that these guys were smuggling and selling heroin long before 1956. Bonnano may have expanded it at that point, he didn't necessarily need lucky because bonnano probably had more contacts in sicily than lucky did because of his lineage.

I agree in part of what you are saying in the post above, but want to emphasize the last part. Members of the Mafia dealt in dope long before 1957. Pipelines had been established already in the 1930s. Numerous of made guys had been caught by the authorities in the 1930s and 1940s dealing in drugs and some of them were deported to Italy. Some bosses allowed drug dealing in their Families, some bosses didn´t. At the Apalachin meeting (which was not a Commission meeting but a national meeting with more than 60 participants) a national ban against dope dealing was declared. The Commission had two weeks prior to Apalachin, held a meeting in New Jersey where they had settled the Costello/Genovese beef and named Gambino as provisional boss of Anastasia´s Family. This, with the decision to impose a national drug ban, needed to be addressed to all the bosses around the country. And that is why the Appalachin meeting was held.

Yes, good point about the commission meeting, held before the national meeting at Apalachin. It was here that they discussed Costello's retirement.

As far as drugs....you posted an interesting theory. However, I can't figure out why Vito would call a national meeting to ban drug trafficking, since he was heavily involved with it, along with Bonanno. It's one thing to ban your underlings from dealing drugs. It's another thing to ban other dons from making money through drugs.

Supposedly, years later, Carmine Galante angered other dons because he didn't share his wealth from his lucrative narcotics racket. Money rules with the mob, therefore, I believe planning how to work together on drug distribution is more believable than banning the racket altogether. But that's just a guess.

Either way, I don't believe the drug related portion of the agenda was discussed at Apalachin, as the cops busted up the meeting right after most of the attendees arrived.

There are conflicting reports about a follow up meeting to Apalachin. Did the dons decide to skip the national agenda altogether... or did they tempt fate by holding another national meeting in a more secure location, which was kept secret from the press/LE?

I don't believe they ever imposed a ban on drugs. Wouldn't it be highly ironic for Genovese to organize a national meeting with the main purpose to impose a ban on drugs, only to be busted for dealing dope two years later? Not to mention that this meeting turned out to be disastrous for the mob. How could he have managed to run his family from jail for another ten years if he had lost so much face? The Genoveses would have been the laughing stock of the entire Mafia.

Oh but wait... Genovese was framed by Luciano... right. It's time Discovery's MythBusters devote one of their episodes to the American Mob. Stop living in a fantasy world, they were all involved in dope up their necks, Bonanno, his son, his wife, his mistress, his dog, anyone.

The consensus on a declaration against drug dealing was worked out by the Commission members prior to the Appalachin meeting. I have no clue how Genovese voted on the matter.

Galante being killed because he refused to share his drug profits seems to be nothing else but a myth. The Bonanno zip faction was involved with the heroin both before and after the Galante hit. They never shared their drug profits with anyone but with themselves, not even after the Galante hit. So the claim that Galante was killed because refusing to share his drug profits is bullshit.

After the Apalachin raids, most of the arestees were indicted on conspiracy charges after they had refused to testify on what had been going on during the meeting. Following the raid and at least to around 1960 when the charges against them were dismissed, the bosses chose to lay extremely low and ceased close contact. So a follow up meeting seems unlikely to have happend, unless they sent lower ranking figures to meet with eachother.



Sonny, you seems to be exaggerating here a little bit.

re: Vito, if anyone wants to read some great Genovese shit, get "The Prosecutor" by James Mills, which features an amazing section on Ernie "The Hawk" Rupolo--

http://www.amazon.com/Prosecutor-James-Mills/dp/B0018ZHOHI/

Tho' I've read a good bit of Mills over the years, somehow I missed this until recently.

I think Carmine got killed because basically since the banana's war the bonnano's had been splintered, so they oked the hit on carmine to consolidate that family and probably because rusty was willing to cut the other families in on a bigger piece of the bonnano drug trade than carmine would have been.

Carmine wanted to keep whatever the bonnano's had going to himself, rusty sold some of it off for commission approval to be boss. He likely had massino make a deal with zips and carmine ends up on the floor of the restuarant patio. I don't know, just a theory that would seem consistant with operations in that world

Also interesting to see how the murder of the conzsalvo brothers that were in the gambino family, and the gambino's own zip portion (the cherry hill gambino's were basically zips, right?) played into the galante hit. Everyone agrees that Carmine was never boss, just a capo; but I don't know who was boss, who was answering to who and how each families drug rackets played into it; but when things happen in the volcano (as bonnano put it), the gambino's and genovese's usually had a hand in it.

I don´t understand your argument. Why would Galante, a member of the Bonanno Family, be obligated to share profits with other bosses? The ones involved with the importation and selling of heroin were caught by LE later in the 1980s. All of them were so called zips, either made members of/associates of the Bonanno Family or associates of the Gambino Family. Most of them had ties to Sicilian Mafia clans. To my knowledge, this group did not share the drug profits with other NY bosses. Not even after the Galante killing. Persico, Corallo, Castellano and Gigante did not receive drug profits from this group.



Yes, the Cherry Hill Gambinos were all zips and they played a huge part in the heroin ring later broken up by LE. And just for the record, I doubt there was a link between Galante and the murder of the Consalvo brothers.

No sir, I'm not saying he would share his profits with the bosses, i'm saying that whatever % of control over the market they had, they would give up to other families. For examples, if the bonnano's were controlling the drug trade in jersey, they gave that up to the cherry hill gambino's (or at least allowed them to operate in that territory) in exchange for sanctioning the carmine hit and backing rusty as boss.

I had never heard of the consavlo brothers before coming to this site to be honest, I was just wondering to what extent their murders may have played into the feeling of the commission that galante was a threat (if he indeed was considered a threat) that lead to his demise. I have no idea, I don't think any of us will, but I thought it'd be something to think about

Honestly I think Rusty just had more "power guys" under him than Galante. I think it was a power play from the start.

Yeah, I think it wasn't any more complicated than Rusty asking the Commission permission to off Galante and the Commission approving, ostensibly because Rastelli was someone the other families could better work with as boss.

I agree. The commission viewed Galante as a threat to themselves.

Galante was probably close to Joe Bananas, since he was the former underboss and likely heir to the throne.... and the commission didn't want the connection.
For self preservation reasons, the other bosses approved the hit on Galante. I'm sure that Rusty didn't need permission from the other bosses, but once he had it, Galante was done.

The other bosses didn't want any more precedents of a don getting whacked by an ambitious underling. And they knew that Galante was bragging that he was going to be boss of bosses. Plus, he was bragging in jail that he was going to make Carlo shit in Times Square. And he had Frank Costello's mausoleum blown up. This guy had brass balls.

The combination of Galante's ambition, with the fortune generated by his drug racket, made the other bosses nervous. And although this may be mob folklore, most sources list Galante's refusal to share drug profits with other families as a major reason for him getting clipped. Plus, Galante had plans to control the narcotics market. So, I understand LittleMango's posts that Rusty was willing to share the proceeds from the drug trade with other families, while Galante was not.

I admit the sharing of money between the 5 families is confusing. But there was a sharing of profits with the concrete club. And the windows scam. And the gasoline tax scam. So why not drugs?

I agree with what all of you guys are saying.

By sharing I mean more in the sense of giving up territory than actually sharing profits. Although The concrete club is a good point because if you translate the construction companies and unions over to drug distribution they could have had a similar set up in the drug trade to the concrete club. This type of arrangement would probably make territorial disputes easier to settle.


I still think Rusty had to give something up to get it because the first rule with these guys is nothing for free. Even if everyone and their mother on the commission wanted galante gone, they'd still exploit the situation within the bonnano's to make money for themselves.

Anyone got any info on the Cherry Hill Gambino's?

John Gambino. His brothers.

What size crew?

Are they still active?

Etc etc.

Thanks in advance.

It may have been a case of sharing the drug trade in general, i.e. enough drug money to go around rather than Galante supposedly wanting to take it all over.

This is an excellent example of NOT sharing profits actually. The Bonanno Family was not involved with the concrete club. They were not involved with the window scam. They did not receive shared profits from these rackets. Same thing with the drugs. If you are not in on it, don´t expect to receive profits from it. The theory of Galante being killed because he did not want to share his drug profits with other bosses is without merit. The theory holds no water.

The heroin business that the group, I mentioned above, was involved with skyrocked AFTER the Galante killing. It looks to me that Galante had actually hindered his guys, at least to some extent, from getting into drugs. At the time of his murder, Galante was out on parole. The last few years in his life, he was basically in and out of jail for violations of his parole restrictions. He was constantly being watched by LE who followed his every move. Why was he in and out of jail? For consorting with known criminals and for not having reported to his parole officer regulary as he was supposed to when released from prison in 1974. During these kind of circumstances, do you guys really think he had the nerves of getting back into the heroin business, a crime that would put his ass behind bars for another ten years just for uttering the letter "H"? I don´t think so. If heroin was the cause of Galante´s murder, it was because he partly held his guys back.

I believe Galante was killed simply because of a power struggle with Rastelli, the official boss at the time. Galante, the acting boss, ran the Family as it pleased him, which pissed Rastelli off. Removing Galante pleased the zips in a great way.

I have an excellent report on the Cherry Hill Gambinos. But it´s on a pdf file. I can´t post it here and I can´t copy and paste the text. Neither can I upload it to my photobucket. Any suggestions on what to do?

You can do the first part of these suggestions host it on another site to allow people to download it instead of posting - http://www.iorgsoft.com/PDF/post-pdf-to-discussion-forum.html

Or any of the other ones of course,it mentions photobucket but the article is pretty old i think and photobucket isn't the same so maybe try flickr or tinypic?

Thanks! Alright, Let´s see if this works... The pages below is from a report presented at the hearings of the committee on the judiciary united state senate ninety-eight congress on organized crime in 1983.

Below the names, you will see a description of the subject´s ranking within the Gambino Family. Don´t pay attention to these because only John Gambino and Nicholas Joseph Russo were made members at the time.

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t68ce453ccfd148658b267a40cbabdae7

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t3c5a87388cd049ba886694bbaf69d20b

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t309870c3e86744bd892d18273ca49d24

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t3b6512a851534bdcb4fac3af95b568d1

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t8598958542144a8c8905ad3f165fa334

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t6d26177472124615ae65a8bf96835bb3

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319te495bce9807a49cbacfb1bc8b7dcd745

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t0d75a9c2ed46433c81394a40db8258c8

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t6248258cdcb14ee08f71ef505c6cd5c4

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t47ce647ce4cf432c9a6cc14172f9fc25

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319t57dee30e2a2e4f83b93df1b2342304f6

https://docs.zoho.com/embed/o319tbb153f9c68a74da1bcae9cd49f0f9f14

Excellent point.
However, I believe the only reason the Bonannos were excluded was because they lost their commission seat during that period. The Genovese, Gambino, Lucchese, and Colombo definitely shared profits from the concrete and window schemes because they were indicted for them in highly publicized trials.

The Concrete Club was prosecuted under RICO and resulted in 4 dons going away for life. Rusty was actually indicted in this trial, but wasn't prosecuted when Giuliani discovered the Bonannos were kicked off the commission. That was ironic since Joe Bonanno's book led to the problems for the other 4 families.

Pete Savino and Fat Pete Chiodo were witnesses in the Windows Cartel trial, which indicted the 4 commission members. I believe Peter Gotti/Gambinos were acquitted but the other 3 families had high ranking members convicted.

Regarding the gasoline racket, the Gambinos, Genovese, Luccheses and Colombos (I believe Michael Franzese receives most of the credit for this scam) were involved- either they shared the racket as a group, or they each got their own Russian partner and worked peacefully.



You very well could be correct. We know that what has been reported about the mob is not always accurate- an obvious example being the thread title.

However, we should be able to agree that the vast majority of reports about Galante's death attributes his refusal to share drug profits as one of the main reasons for his murder (along with a power struggle with Rastelli). Maybe this is an example of what Turnbull posted on the previous page about writers reprinting rumors from book to book.

My thanks to Hairy and Caramel.

Very interesting.

I was also hoping for information on their current status?
My thx again.

If anyone is interested you can download the entire 1983 report at :

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/92732NCJRS.pdf

It's a 28 MB pdf file.

ok. if GALANTE was not killed for keeping all the profit's . then why ? and no retaliation ? i guess funzi's word was strong enough

I think it was as simple as Rusty asked the Commission for permission to whack Galante because he was making moves towards boss while Rusty was in the can.

Massino had a lot of sway; very cunning and ruthless. Wouldn't Massino want him dead so he could wait out Rastelli's death and take over from him?

Well, Massino was Rastelli's mouthpiece and he knew he'd gain more power by offing Galante.

Not likely because galante was nearly 10 years older than rastelli. Massino would rather plot against rastelli and wait for galante to die

Nope. Galante was a drug dealer his entire mafia career. Whether he was killed for not sharing is not known. What is known is that he brought the zips over to deal drugs. There was no other reason to bring them over.

Could the increase in heroin dealing in the 80's be due to them building more drug routes and distribution channels over time? It takes time to set those things up

That is the genaral belief, yes. But Mafia history is riddled with false information and wrong assumptions. It only takes a quick glance at MafiaWiki to see that most of the info presented there is without merit. If anybody brought over zips, it was Gambino while he was alive. Galante was in prison when, for example, Bonventre and Baldo Amato, by the looks of it, voluntarily came over. There is simply no proof, regardless of what MafiaWiki says, that Galante organized the transfer of these guys. These two guys were both Castellammaresi and Bonventre had family as former Bonanno members, possibly Amato too. So naturally they were drawn to and later ended up with Galante. On here, use the search function, I´ve posted a report where Luigi Ronsisvalle´s testimony can be read. He says that some Siclians, from the Castellammaresi region, were brought over in the mid 1960s to fight in the "Bananas war", against Joe Bonanno. And that these guys were brought over by Giuseppe Buccelato. If you are familiar with the Bonanno/Bonventre/Magaddino-Buccelato family feud of the early 1900s, you will see that Ronsisvalle´s testimony makes sense.

Most of the Families were engaged in drug trafficking. See for example my thread, on some of the major drug trials of the 1960s, posted some time ago. They all had established heroin pipelines that certainly lasted way into the 1970s. The myth of Galante being the one who had all these pipelines tied up in his name is an urban legend that needs to be buried once and for all. He did not control the Lucchese´s drug trafficking operations. He did not control the Gambino´s drug trafficking operations and he did not control the Genovese´s drug trafficking operations. Believing that Galante was the drug lord and contolled all these Familiies drug pipe lines is ridiculous. Therefore the claim "that Galante didn´t want to share drug profits with other bosses" is totally groundless. If Galante was murdered over drugs, it´s more likely that the reason was because he held factions within the Bonannos back, hindering them from engaging in drug trafficking and not because he wasn´t willing to share drug profits with other bosses. As I´ve said before, it was, in some sense, his murder that paved the way for the zip´s heavy involvement with the heroin trade. Read up on the Pizza Connection case which is described as the biggest heroin operation the Mafia was involved with ever, at least up til that date.

Nice strawman arguments. Nobody claimed Galante controlled all heroin trafficking. Nobody claimed he brought over all the zips. You're the one claiming he was slowing down the heroin trafficking with absolutely no proof.

The pizza connection was Bonannos and Gambinos. Galante was at the center of the french connection. His entire mafia career was drug trafficking and he wasn't afraid of prison and his bodyguards were known mobsters.

^^^Well, that´s kinda my point, isn´t it? Have you read this thread from the top? Most Families were into the drug trade. If Galante had his stuff going on, why would he have felt obligated to share HIS drug profits with other bosses? In books after books and articles after articles found on the net, this reason for his killing is mentioned. But the claim is without merit. Do you see what I´m trying to say? Do you see my point?

You are saying that Galante brought in the zips. So it´s actually you that needs to show proof of what you are claiming. Not me.
This is methaphorically speaking: Two friends (person A and person B) are sitting on a coach, watching tv. Person A says "Look in the corner over there. There´s a alien from planet drk sitting and smoking weed" But there is nothing there, just air. So person B says "No, you are imagining stuff. Nobody is sitting there smoking weed." And person A is saying "Well, prove to me that there is nothing there and that it´s only my mind playing tricks on me". How is person B supposed to prove that there is only air in that corner?

"In 1956 Carmine Galente was caught speeding coming from or going tot he 56 commission meeting.
there was a bid push by local political people to get the charges dropped, this led to an association with Joe Barberra, and as a result the police started keeping an eye on him.

The police overheard Joe jr renting rooms at a local hotel in 57 and figured something was up...." -Dooley36




"I think Croswell did have some kind of a personal beef with LaBarbera. Reading through some of the articles published on the raid and the interviews on him, he does come across as a braggart. Like he finally got his long sought 15 minutes in fame, giving him a great personal satisfaction and at the same time getting the chance to nail LaBarbera. That´s the feeling I get. He was aware of the mobster meeting that had taken place the year before but that had slipped through his hands. From time to time, he was conducting surveillance on the LaBarbera estate. So I doubt that there was a tip off." - HairyKnuckles


As we all know, the widely publicized story on Apalachin, was that Croswell observed all these big black cars rolling through town, and followed them to Joe Barbaras house, then called in for backup, etc.


Over the past couple of weeks, I've done a ton of reading and background searching on Carmine Galante. As these guys mentioned above, there was a lot more backstory with Croswell. I just read recently (Cant recall now exactly where, but I believe it was in Galantes FBI file, in the "FBI Vault"/Reading room), about Galantes speeding ticket, the involvement of some highly influential politicians in trying to get this ticket squashed, and the Pols involvement drawing the attention of not only the State Police, but the FBI. Supposedly Croswell was keeping regular contact with the FBI, and it was they that tipped Croswell to the upcoming summit at Joe Barbaras house. This whole spiel about Croswell just being an "observant" trooper was a cover story.

I'll try and dig up the relevant parts of this story either later today, or this evening and post back with it.

It was Lefty Ruggiero who told Joe Pistone that Galante brought Zips over. Unless you know more about the Bonannos during the 1970's than an actual made member at the time, I'll take his word over yours that Galante brought Zips over into the Bonanno family.

Now why don't you prove that Galante was hindering the family from dealing drugs as you claimed?

It was actually Mirra who first pointed them out to Pistone, not Lefty. And he doesn´t say specifically that Galante was the one who was bringing them over, only that Galante used them for drug dealing and carrying out hits. Besides, everything Mirra told Pistone, or Lefty by that matter, must not automatically be considered the truth or be considered as proof. Hearing stuff on the street is sometimes called "this is how a rumor gets started". I think Pistone said in one of his books that Lefty, a footsoldier basically, was prone to talk about things that was over his head. He did this to impress people.
I´d recommend you to read Ronsisvalle´s testimony by the way. His testimony in regards to by who and why some zips were brought over, could be considered as proof, at least in a legal court, because it´s a sworn testimony.

There was certainly heroin dealing going on with the Bonannos before the Galante murder. But, and I´ve said this a couple of times, it was AFTER the hit that the heroin trade sky rocketed. It looks like Galante, at least to an extent, prevented some factions within his group from getting too heavily involved. Perhaps that´s why the zips, in the end, turned on him? And one more thing that needs to be pointed out. It may not have been the heroin trade that actually caused the Galante hit. A power struggle with Rastelli could very well have been the main reason behind the Galante murder.

I'll take Ruggiero's inside knowledge over your speculation on the Zips and Galante being against dealing drugs when his entire career was dealing drugs. I've never heard such a ludicrous theory. Next you'll be claiming that Roy DeMeo was a pacifist.

ok hairy i understand your point .but why was Bruno and other's congradulated(on video),and the meeting in BOCA ROTON...And Funzi told moey (lilo's cuz )"tell him to come see me"

It looks like Rastelli had turned to the Commission for support. Not necessarily to get a sanction for the hit, but to have them step in if a new Bonanno internal war would break out. It´s possible that the Commission appointed Dellacroce to supervise the hit, and ordered that the hitters report to him right after the murder. Cannone (Bonanno consigliere) was also seen at the Ravenite when Bruno arrived. Rastelli only had a few captains he could trust. Two of them (Sonny Red and Giaccone, together with Cannone) were immediately after the hit put on a ruling panel to run the Family while Rastelli was in jail. Almost half of the captains (and the underboss) were demoted by Rastelli and replaced by men who supported him.



I don´t know about this quote. Is this from Tieri´s FBI files?

I think that the "Jefe de jefes" or the person or org who has the most $$$, power, or has been around the longest has never been in the United States or that public if u know what I mean...

Was it not Vinnie Teresa who first claimed Galante brought the Zips over stories. I know Teresa was discredited as a witness but in his Book My life in the Mafia He states Galante told him he was bringing Sicilians over because they were more disciplined and loyal than their American counterparts.

According to Pistone, Galante was killed because he wasn't considered a legitimate boss which was holding back the zips from dealing more heroin. In order to continue their heroin pipeline, they had to side with the boss the commission recognized (Rastelli). See page 143:

http://books.google.com/books?id=fhBwVP1...%20&f=false

This is according to Pistone, so take it as you will. Does give credence to Hairy's theory, however.

awesome thanks for this and thanks to hairyknuckles

Thanks for finding and posting the link. My understanding of what Pistone is saying is that he could not testify about what he considered to be a vital part of the main reason why Galante was killed. The judge ruled that "the Galante hit was not in any way in furtherance of the heroin smuggling conspiracy, but was Mafia politics and the result of an internal Bonanno family power struggle". Pistone disagreed. He goes on to say "The Commission considered Galante an illegitimate boss who was greedy and wasn´t sharing his narcotics-conspiracy treasure." However, this doesn´t change my stance, I tend to agree with the judge for reasons explained in my posts above (and in other threads throughout this forum).

No problem Cheech, you´re welcome.

just like ANASTASIA OR AMUSO THEY KILLED THEIR BOSSES

That doesn't give credence to his theory at all. He claimed Galante prevented the zips from dealing because he was afraid of going back to prison. Pistone is saying the other families were preventing the zips because they didn't recognize Galante as boss.

The truth is we don't know why he was killed but the commission members were convicted of the murder

Speaking of the convictions for the Galante hit, they all got 100 years for a racketeering conspiracy which included the Galante murder, but Fat Tony wasn't front boss yet in 1979 ? Tieri was the Genovese representative in the commission back then, so how did they link Fat Tony to this or didn't his conviction include the Galante murder? Same question about Chirstopher Furnari, I read somewhere his lawyers argued he wasn't consigliere yet at the time of the murder, so I don't really get the picture.

so if they didnt kill him for not sharing then why was bruno seen pulling up the gambino spot later with phil lucky and steven beef cannone was there too