And it would be "cool" because I support them and would provide shelter and money to any of them that stand for a free Ireland.

In what way would it be cool?

The existence of physical force Republican groups isn't a laugh or something that's fun to read about on a website dedicated to charting the lives of criminals, they are the result of a situation which causes great pain to Irish people - namely the occupation of the northern part of the island of Ireland by a foreign force and their planters. It isn't something cool, it is something extremely serious.

As for setting up in America - the current groups are as weak as piss. As I said before, thye don't have the ability to sniff one of their own farts without the security forces knowing about it. They'd have no chance in Boston or Louisiana if they can't even operate in Belfast. Maybe the Continuity IRA are still viable as they have more pedigree and a stronger political wing, but even they have wisely decided to keep a lower profile. They appetite is not there for war anymore. To take someone's life for the cause of an Irish Republic you have a certain responsibility to them that it is for a reason, part of a campaign, working towards an end...the recent deaths are irresponsible attempts to keep an ideology (anti-Treaty, anti-Good Friday Agreement, non-constitutional, physical force Republicanism) alive.

They should put down the guns until the time is right.

In what way would it be cool?

The existence of physical force Republican groups isn't a laugh or something that's fun to read about on a website dedicated to charting the lives of criminals, they are the result of a situation which causes great pain to Irish people - namely the occupation of the northern part of the island of Ireland by a foreign force and their planters. It isn't something cool, it is something extremely serious.

As for setting up in America - the current groups are as weak as piss. As I said before, thye don't have the ability to sniff one of their own farts without the security forces knowing about it. They'd have no chance in Boston or Louisiana if they can't even operate in Belfast. Maybe the Continuity IRA are still viable as they have more pedigree and a stronger political wing, but even they have wisely decided to keep a lower profile. They appetite is not there for war anymore. To take someone's life for the cause of an Irish Republic you have a certain responsibility to them that it is for a reason, part of a campaign, working towards an end...the recent deaths are irresponsible attempts to keep an ideology (anti-Treaty, anti-Good Friday Agreement, non-constitutional, physical force Republicanism) alive.

They should put down the guns until the time is right.

I can understand sympathizing with irish republicanism. People often forget that most of the UK are not a member by choice per se. Ireland has technically been an occupied nation for hundreds of years, yet, they have never become fully integrated Brits. Their cultural identity has never really waned as is typical of nations that are occupied for long lengths of time by a people that share some cultural affinities. So I can totally understand why half the country is not enough for Irish repubs.

That said, The IRA "died" when the South was founded and was amalgamated as the official republic army. PIRA was the only real successor to the cause and they put down their guns back in '05.

Remaining remnants of the republican movement(such as RIRA) militant arm are mostly low brow thugs who are looking to earn a buck rather than unification with the south.

HOWEVER, honestly, the IRA (every incarnation), has often employed some shamefully cowardly tactics and have littered history with the corpses of hundreds of civilians. there is also a whole other side to republicanism in North Ireland, it's really such a difficult situation, I don't think there will ever be a compromise that will satisfy the republicans, short of England completely removing any and all presence there, which isn't a feasible expectation for several reasons.

Another important thing to understand about the IRA's conflict with the British government is that there actually is SOME altruistic logic behind their staying and occupying North Ireland. Hundreds of years ago when the british first invaded and annexed Ireland to make way for British colonists, nobody could have guessed eventually Henvry VII(I?) would come a long and reform the religious institutions from the ground up, vis-a-vis bodily ejecting the papacy and Catholicism and creating Protestantism. Now, for a nation that has historically been extremely vested in the Catholic religion, this came as something of a blow to Ireland.

let me elaborate, it easy to overlook King Henry's reformations as something that influences the more modern conflict between the IRA and the UK, but it has to be a major part of the sectarian violence that occurs in ireland today. The colonists that settled Ireland were mainly english protestants, so, hundreds of years later we develop a unique situation wherein half the people of the Northern districts are the ancestors of people that technically have no right to settle where they did, yet, have been there for generations and are as much Irish as any catholic.

One of the big reasons the Uk chose to stay in N. Ireland is because of those people, the loyalists/protestants who come from an ethnically English background but have been in Ireland since the time of their grandparents grandparents grandparents. At the time of the original Easter Rising in 1916 we are emerging from a period where many Catholics felt religiously suppressed, to make matters worse, Catholics were also socially repressed by the minority of protestants. Nepotism among protestant transplantees was rampant, to the point where it didn't matter how much money you had as a Catholic, you were forced to live in run down ghettos, your Republican, catholic government candidates had no chance of achieving real political status as the Protestants, whom (again), despite their minority status, rule a majority of the seats in the House of Commons.

So, I suppose these descendants of English settlers are not seen as truly Irish (by the repubs) despite their having been there for generations. I mean honestly I can understand both sides of this conflict. it really just goes to show how nothing in this world is black and white.

SO ALL THAT SAID, I don't see how an IRA presence in America would be at all good for anyone. HOWEVER, there WAS IRA presence in Boston for many years. Usually there to garner support from (then) recent Irish immigrants (whom no doubt became migrant because of the suppression of Catholics)in form of money, weapons, etc..

Now there would really be no reason for them to be in America. What would they get out of it? Anyone claiming to be "irish" is probably several generations removed from the Irish ancestor that originally settled in the US.

I can understand sympathizing with irish republicanism. People often forget that most of the UK are not a member by choice per se. Ireland has technically been an occupied nation for hundreds of years, yet, they have never become fully integrated Brits. Their cultural identity has never really waned as is typical of nations that are occupied for long lengths of time by a people that share some cultural affinities. So I can totally understand why half the country is not enough for Irish repubs.

That said, The IRA "died" when the South was founded and was amalgamated as the official republic army. PIRA was the only real successor to the cause and they put down their guns back in '05.

Remaining remnants of the republican movement(such as RIRA) militant arm are mostly low brow thugs who are looking to earn a buck rather than unification with the south.

HOWEVER, honestly, the IRA (every incarnation), has often employed some shamefully cowardly tactics and have littered history with the corpses of hundreds of civilians. there is also a whole other side to republicanism in North Ireland, it's really such a difficult situation, I don't think there will ever be a compromise that will satisfy the republicans, short of England completely removing any and all presence there, which isn't a feasible expectation for several reasons.

Another important thing to understand about the IRA's conflict with the British government is that there actually is SOME altruistic logic behind their staying and occupying North Ireland. Hundreds of years ago when the british first invaded and annexed Ireland to make way for British colonists, nobody could have guessed eventually Henvry VII(I?) would come a long and reform the religious institutions from the ground up, vis-a-vis bodily ejecting the papacy and Catholicism and creating Protestantism. Now, for a nation that has historically been extremely vested in the Catholic religion, this came as something of a blow to Ireland.

let me elaborate, it easy to overlook King Henry's reformations as something that influences the more modern conflict between the IRA and the UK, but it has to be a major part of the sectarian violence that occurs in ireland today. The colonists that settled Ireland were mainly english protestants, so, hundreds of years later we develop a unique situation wherein half the people of the Northern districts are the ancestors of people that technically have no right to settle where they did, yet, have been there for generations and are as much Irish as any catholic.

One of the big reasons the Uk chose to stay in N. Ireland is because of those people, the loyalists/protestants who come from an ethnically English background but have been in Ireland since the time of their grandparents grandparents grandparents. At the time of the original Easter Rising in 1916 we are emerging from a period where many Catholics felt religiously suppressed, to make matters worse, Catholics were also socially repressed by the minority of protestants.

So, I suppose these descendants of English settlers are not seen as truly Irish (by the repubs) despite their having been there for generations. I mean honestly I can understand both sides of this conflict. it really just goes to show how nothing in this world is black and white.

U.C.A. ARE a result of the REAL IRA on Irish people.

Don't pay no attention to him. He claims to be from Ireland, but denounces the IRA and using violence. Clearly doesn't understand the history of the Irish people at the hands of the Brits. Young Liberal kid that wants peace, love, and dope for everyone.

Don't know why you've got such a hardon for me. I have a far superior understanding of Republicanism than you do, so don't lecture me on the suffering of the Irish people. Also, I haven't denounced the IRA but I don't mind saying that I don't agree with the armed struggle continuing at this moment in time.

I've stated my position to you several times in these discussions. You want the war to continue/re-start, so let's hear your philosophy.

Who do you expect to prosecute the war against Britain? What actions would you like them to carry out? What would your overall strategy be?

Demands to see a war continue is easy talk for a big mouth sitting at a computer in America. Not so easy in practice.

There's a lot wrong with that post, so I've taken it in bitesize chunks...



It's not half the country, it's six counties from 32 - only three of which have a Unionist majority. And it's not about getting enough of the country to satisfy Republicans or getting only areas with a Nationalist/Republican majority, it's about achieving the Irish Republic as proclaimed in 1916 and ratified overwhelmingly by Irish people in the 1918 elections.



The IRA never became the Free State Army. Elements of the IRA broke their oaths to the Irish Republic and the Irish people and formed the Free State Army. The IRA as it existed at the time technically still exists today as the Continuity IRA. The Provisionals were recognised as the legitimate IRA by General Tom Barry in 1969/1970, who conferred legitimacy on the Continuity IRA in 1986 despite efforts by the Provos to the contrary.



The fact that there are many 'dissident' Republicans sitting in British gaols as political prisoners today suggests that they are concerned with something other than making a buck.



The IRA even in the actions it carried out which I disagree strongly with (La Mon, Warrington, etc) was never a cowardly force. It consistently took on a stronger and better equipped enemy in combat and never complained when its volunteers were killed, brutalised, wounded or beaten by its enemy. Throughout the conflict its volunteers showed themselves to be brave and dedicated soldiers - as the British Army has stated many times since.

Why can England never leave? It left the 26 counties, and there were many loyalists and unionists there then. That can be the only just solution and it will one day come to pass. I only hope I am alive to see it.

If the IRA has 'littered history with the corpses of hundreds of civilians' then they will have bucked the trend of armies the world over who have left thousands upon thousands of civilians dead from their skirmishes. If it was left to the so called 'legitimate' western armies who have perpetrated wars in the last decade to carry out military actions for over thirty years then the civilian death toll would be counted in the millions, and you can take that to the bank.



You have misunderstood the plantation of Ulster completely.

The English who colonised Ireland were Catholic. They were Norman Catholics. They formed part of the Ascendency in Ireland, where they were granted the best lands, most of the wealth, the power and so on. But they were Catholic.

After the Reformation this English community in Ireland found itself in a similar position to the recusant Catholics of England.

The plantation of Ulster was something quite different and had nothing to do with King Henry VIII. Ulster was planted by Presbyterian Scots, not Anglican English - whose faith is quite different. Even then many of them went on to become Republican - which is after all the important part of this debate, Republicans and Unionists/Loyalists, not Catholics and Protestants.



Again, Loyalists are ethnically Scottish.

The repression in Ireland in the 19th and early 20th century in general was by English land-owning and ruling classes, not by Ulster-Scots Protestants.



I am an Irish Republican and I see them as Irish citizens, as mentioned in the Proclamation of the Irish Republic in 1916 - the document which has sat on my wall since my childhood and which is the first place I look to for guidance on issues related to Irish Republicanism.

"The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien Government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past."

It was also said in the Democratic Programme of the First Dail...

"...we declare that the Nation’s sovereignty extends not only to all men and women of the Nation, but to all its material possessions, the Nation’s soil and all its resources, all the wealth and all the wealth-producing processes within the Nation..."


It's a long post but I hope it challenges some of the things you stated and helps change you perception of Irish Republicanism.

Don't know why you've got such a hardon for me. I have a far superior understanding of Republicanism than you do, so don't lecture me on the suffering of the Irish people. Also, I haven't denounced the IRA but I don't mind saying that I don't agree with the armed struggle continuing at this moment in time.

I've stated my position to you several times in these discussions. You want the war to continue/re-start, so let's hear your philosophy.

Who do you expect to prosecute the war against Britain? What actions would you like them to carry out? What would your overall strategy be?

Demands to see a war continue is easy talk for a big mouth sitting at a computer in America. Not so easy in practice.

The UCA are a shower of hoods and scumbags. I'm no supporter of the Real IRA but I'll back them any day of the week over drug dealing scum who cause misery throughout Ireland.

U.C.A. ARE a result of the REAL IRA on Irish people.

You sound like an ass licking West Brit abe. Where'd you come up with that shit?

Newsflash buddy, there's been a drug problem in Dublin for decades, and there's always been gangs and crime.

Alan Ryan wasn't a bad fella, you swallow all that fooking shite the Brit media feed yer. You want some more kiss ass Brit kidney bacon mash or whatever the fuck I'll feed yer this. Shove this down yer piehole abe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Rjjocwf8k

Listen I don't support the killing of innocent people but Alan Ryan genuinely believed in what he stood for and it wasn't harming innocent people. he protected them from scumbags slinging shit to kids on street cornersmlike a proper old fashioned Irishman.

And you really talking some bull to blame the drug crews and organised crime in Ireland purely on the IRA is bullshit. Check your history abe, it wasn't Irish burning women and children from their homes and taunting them.

The Brit scumbags created a monster, one that grew fiercer and became the most well organised freedom fighters in Europe according to the British intelligence. And the Brits never took South Armagh, never! They never hit and run in South Armagh and even the Brit special services got executed there. Erin go Bragh!

How'd you like them apples? Something tells me orange is more your colour abe

I don't know much about the Irish underworld, could somebody please tell me if it's illegal to be a member of the IRA, UCA and other such organizations in Ireland, like it is to be a member of the mafia in Italy or are the organizations legal by themselves, but only specific crimes are prosecuted?

I Like this guy Sean South!!!

Sean South a man who says he is a Republican on this thread says Real IRA are a MI5 run organization is this true or not ?

Well the Real IRA no longer exists, there is now a union of separate groups who have broken up into splinter cells to make them harder to track down and trace.

Hence the fact that the recent attacks in Belfast which included the security forces coming under heavy gunfire and a bomb that nearly took out a leading Unionist have crept under the radar of British intelligence.

So one thing we know for sure is that there is at least one cell operating under the radar of the security forces at present.

Anyway merry xmas abe,keep us posted

Well the Real IRA no longer exists, there is now a union of separate groups who have broken up into splinter cells to make them harder to track down and trace.

Hence the fact that the recent attacks in Belfast which included the security forces coming under heavy gunfire and a bomb that nearly took out a leading Unionist have crept under the radar of British intelligence.

So one thing we know for sure is that there is at least one cell operating under the radar of the security forces at present.

Anyway merry xmas abe,keep us posted