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Vito, drugs & morality?
#643158
04/09/12 04:10 PM
04/09/12 04:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,502 AZ
Turnbull
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In both the novel and the film, Vito tells Solozzo that he can't go along with his deal because drugs would jeopardize the police and political protection he needed for his gambling and union interests. But in the novel, Vito seems to invoke some "moral" objections to drugs: --As he's about to leave his office for Connie's wedding,Tom says he can't hold off the Solozzo meeting much longer. Vito replies, "What he will propose will be an infamita."--After Tom finishes briefing Sonny and Vito about the upcoming Solozzo meeting, Vito tells him, "Do you have in your notes that Solozzo made his living before the war from prostitution? As the Tattaglias do now? Write that down before you forget." Tom is stung, but attributes it to the fact that Vito was "notoriously straighlaced in matters of sex." (How Tom knew that could be the topic of another thread. ) Do you think that Vito was serious about those objections, and that they had any weight in his decision not to go with Sol's proposition? If not, why did he raise them?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: danielperrygin]
#643267
04/10/12 12:43 PM
04/10/12 12:43 PM
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Turnbull
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What i think out weighs everything else on this matter is Vito had no need for the drug business, That's why I think Solozzo contacted Barzini before he went to Vito: Sol needed a partner to give him working capital, police/political protection and affiliation with a major NYC family. But he also had something to give: the money his partner would make with him through drugs would buy power. Vito had all the things he needed. But Vito was already on top with businesses that weren't as risky as Sol's. He didn't need Sol's money, and the dangers associated with it. So Sol must have chosen Barzini first--he was impatient to succeed Vito as No. 1, was younger and more ambitious than the other Dons. Barzini told him that his logic was correct, but he still needed Vito's police/political protection. If Vito knows I'm your partner, he'd say no--he wouldn't want his capital and police/political protection to make his chief rival stronger. Go to Tattaglia. He's a pimp--Vito's not worried about him. Tell Tatt and Vito anything you want, but I'll be your silent partner."
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: Danito]
#643383
04/11/12 12:21 PM
04/11/12 12:21 PM
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Turnbull
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But what did Barzini give Sollozzo? I'm guessing that, initially, Sol thought Barzini would give him better terms for a deal than Vito would because Barzini had more to gainn from a drugs partnership than did Vito. But after Vito's no, I'm sure Barzini gave him the go-ahead to whack Vito, and promised that the other families would fall in behind him.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: Turnbull]
#645049
04/25/12 04:20 PM
04/25/12 04:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019 Texas
olivant
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But what did Barzini give Sollozzo? I'm guessing that, initially, Sol thought Barzini would give him better terms for a deal than Vito would because Barzini had more to gainn from a drugs partnership than did Vito. But after Vito's no, I'm sure Barzini gave him the go-ahead to whack Vito, and promised that the other families would fall in behind him. We can assume that the Commission is up and running at this time. So, how does it fit in with your scenario?
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: olivant]
#669299
10/07/12 01:07 PM
10/07/12 01:07 PM
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Turnbull
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But what did Barzini give Sollozzo? I'm guessing that, initially, Sol thought Barzini would give him better terms for a deal than Vito would because Barzini had more to gainn from a drugs partnership than did Vito. But after Vito's no, I'm sure Barzini gave him the go-ahead to whack Vito, and promised that the other families would fall in behind him. We can assume that the Commission is up and running at this time. So, how does it fit in with your scenario? Oli, I'm sorry I missed your question months ago. My assumption is that, although the Five Families War involved only NYC, the Commission was called to order by both sides to marshal support for their cases. Barzini benefited by this strategy: the out of town Dons wanted a piece of the profitable drugs business. And, although Vito would provide protection only in the East, the other guys would want the blessings of the Big Five for their own drugs businesses.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: Turnbull]
#678417
11/22/12 01:24 PM
11/22/12 01:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385 Tampa, FL
waynethegame
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I believe that Vito said no to drugs because, as he stated, he had political/police power and they would also be morally against drugs. By him condoning it he would lose out either in connections outright refusing to deal with him, or heavier bribes to get them to look the other way.
I also believe that, if he had said yes, we would have gotten the same result only down the line when the Corleone's power was weaker. Barzini could have stepped in to pick up the connections that abandoned Vito due to his going in on the drugs (after all, he was a silent partner and nobody knew he was backing Tattaglia and Sollozzo), and later on he could have had even more power.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#701888
03/09/13 09:41 PM
03/09/13 09:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
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waynethegame
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Barzini could have stepped in to pick up the connections that abandoned Vito due to his going in on the drugs So Vito's 'friends in high places' would abandon him for someone who was up his neck in drugs as well? Does that make sense? There was nothing to my recollection connecting Barzini with drugs, and Barzini was the second most powerful Mafioso behind Vito. If Vito was exposed as having dealings with drugs, his friends would have easily been swept up by the #2 guy, the guy who was in the shadows the whole time and never showed his face, Don Emilio Barzini.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: waynethegame]
#703071
03/15/13 12:52 AM
03/15/13 12:52 AM
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Posts: 1,841
SinatraClub
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Barzini could have stepped in to pick up the connections that abandoned Vito due to his going in on the drugs So Vito's 'friends in high places' would abandon him for someone who was up his neck in drugs as well? Does that make sense? There was nothing to my recollection connecting Barzini with drugs, and Barzini was the second most powerful Mafioso behind Vito. If Vito was exposed as having dealings with drugs, his friends would have easily been swept up by the #2 guy, the guy who was in the shadows the whole time and never showed his face, Don Emilio Barzini. Pretty sure Sollozzo with the Tattaglias, the Tattaglias were being used as fronts for Barzini. He had just as much to gain from the drugs as they did.
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: Turnbull]
#703610
03/17/13 01:10 PM
03/17/13 01:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385 Tampa, FL
waynethegame
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I could have sworn that Barzini kept in the shadows for everything, so while he was in the drug business (backing Tattaglia and Sollozzo) nobody was aware of his involvement. I could be wrong though it's been a while since I've read the novel.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: olivant]
#703698
03/17/13 08:36 PM
03/17/13 08:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
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waynethegame
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Of course, it shold be noted that Vito had no objection to how a man makes his living. Except he really did, because he knew full well that without his protection Sollozzo wouldn't be able to get his operation going full force, and he also must have known that since Sollozzo was a "man of honor" he wouldn't take that refusal kindly.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Vito, drugs & morality?
[Re: waynethegame]
#723866
07/02/13 10:06 PM
07/02/13 10:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 151
Mr_Willie_Cicci
Made Member
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Of course, it shold be noted that Vito had no objection to how a man makes his living. Except he really did, because he knew full well that without his protection Sollozzo wouldn't be able to get his operation going full force, and he also must have known that since Sollozzo was a "man of honor" he wouldn't take that refusal kindly. Which is why he sent Luca. Even if it was a clumsily done move, he still had enough sense to know that there was more to the story and that Sol wasn't a man who would deem a refusal the act of a friend.
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