Does anybody know who all 28 government recognized made Outfit members were as of the Family Secrets trial, Who were they and how many have died since?,besides Al Tornabene

There are some OK-ish charts floating around that will give you as good an idea as you're going to get. Check out Scott Burnstein's chart. It's not literal, IMO, i.e. characterzing all of those people as "soldiers" as if they're out there every day doing the Outfit's dirty work, IMO, is not accurate at all.

But if will give you a fair idea of who's involved... a lot of them are dead since that chart was put out though.

Yeah I was looking at that and I agree very exaggerated, What I got from it wasn't anything new really I got The Brothers DiFrinzo John,Peter,and Joe,plus Andriachi,Mattassa,Cullotta,Magnafichi,Fratto,James Indecino,Chris Spina,and some guys Scalise,and Sal DeLaurentis as well plus 3 Caruso's and possibly D'Amico and Sarno all in all thats that's a max of 17 and Tornabene who's dead and te three Jailbirds Lombardo,Marcello,an Calabrese ,Who's the other ten the government supposedly knows and we don't

This is from some posters particularly Pete83 and McScott on the other side.

Andriacchi and Joe Kong Cullotta are both sick with cancer and are inactive/retired Fratto seems to be on the outs with the higher ups since his conviction and hasnt been that active in Elmwood Park for years. He operates his extorion rackets mostly in the western suburbs Pudgy Matassa was never the boss of Cicero. He drives around Solly D on his daily rounds

Boss John Difronzo Street Boss Vacant (Rumored to be either Solly C Cautadella or Solly D Delaurentis but no official word yet) Consiglieri Marco D'amico

Elmwood Park Boss Peter Difronzo

Grand Avenue Boss Albert Vena

Cicero Boss Salvatore Delaurentis

Chinatown Boss Frank Toots Caruso

Also interesting to note is the old wild bunch crew seems to still be active with Jimmy Inendino being the head of that faction. they are a subcrew of Cicero though as they always were.

Caporegimes: Elmwood Park Peter “Greedy Petey” Di Fronzo Crew Street Boss Rudy “The Chin/Uncle Rudy” Fratto (will be replaced by Don Scalise while locked up) & Michael “Mikey Mags/Good Looking Mike” Magnaficchi MP/Cicero/Lake Cty John “Pudgy” Matassa, Jr. Crew Street Boss Michael “Fat Mikey/The Beard” Sarno James “Jimmy the Ice Pick/Jimmy I” Inendino Michael “Big Mike” Spano West Side Joseph “Joe Kong” Cullotta Crew Street Boss Christopher “Christy the Nose” Spina South Side Frank “Tootsie Babe” Caruso Crew Street Boss Leo Caruso/Bruno Caruso

Soldiers (star by name denotes higher status than others) Joe Abate – West Side* Joe Albano – South Side Robert “Bobby the Truck Driver/Bobby A” Abbinanti – Elmwood Park * Andy Affrunti – Melrose Park Anthony Alemam – Melrose Park * Frank Amabile – Melrose Park Joe Amabile – Melrose Park Jimmy Amabile – Melrose Park Ralph Amadeo – Melrose Park Tony Andriacchi – Elmwood Park * Donnie Andriacchi –Elmwood Park * Bobby Angelo – South Side Constance “Connie” Antongiovanni – West Side Michael Annecca, Sr – West Side Michael Annecca, Jr – West Side Joey Annecca – West Side Victor “Popeye” Arigo – Elmwood Park * Vince Auriema – Melrose Park Paul Balzano – South Side Phil Balzano – South Side Fred Barbara – South Side * Dominic “The Brow” Barbaro – South Side * Dominic Basso – Elmwood Park/FLA * Vincent Basso – Elmwood Park * Joey Bastone – Melrose Park* James Bastone – Melrose Park* Tommy Battaglia – Melrose Park* Chris Battaglia – Melrose Park* Joe Beli – South Side Robert “Bobby the Gabeet” Bellavia – Melrose Park (imprisoned) * Charles “Chuckie B” Bellavia – Melrose Park* Phil Bertucci – South Side Anthony Biancofiore – Elmwood Park Tommy Billante - West Side Mike Blasi – Melrose Park Robert Bonamici – West Side Joe Bonavolante -South Side Mike Botica - West Side Roland “Ricky B” Borelli – Elmwood Park * Louie Borselino – South Side Nick Boscarino – Melrose Park* Joe Bova - Melrose Park Salvatore Brocato – Elmwood Park Joe Broccio - Melrose Paek Albert Bruno – West Side Jimmy Buonomo – Elmwood Park Dominic Buscemi – South Side Frank “Frankie Breeze” Calabrese – South Side (imprisoned) * Anthony “Tough Tony” Calabrese – South Side (imprisoned) * Mike Canazero – Elmwood Park Jimmy Capasso - South Side John “Cappy” Capodice – South Side* Tommy Capione - Wesr Side Michael “Mikey Beef” Caracci – Elmwood Park Richard Carbonaro – Melrose Park Salvatore “Sammy Cards” Cardella – South Side Leonard Cardone – Elmwood Park Mike Carioscia – Melrose Park * Pasquale “Pasty” Carioscia – Melrose Park Peter “Bushy” Caruso – South Side* Morris “Mutt” Caruso – South Side* Frank “Little Frankie” Caruso, Jr – South Side* Anthony Carvotta – South Side Angelo “The Angel” Cassano – Elmwood Park* Dominic “Mennie” Cassano – Elmwood Park* Gino “Mean Gene” Cassano – Elmwood Park* Vito “Pops” Cassano – Elmwood Park* Bobby Cassimiro - South Side Ronnie Castaldo – Elmwood Park Joe Castaldo – Elmwood Park Nicky Castaldo – Elmwood Park Gerry Castino - South Siude Salvatore “Solly C” Cataudella – South Side* Nicholas “Nicky C” Catuadella – South Side* Frank “Frankie the Gunner” Catapano – Elmwood Park* Richard “Richie the Cat” Catazone – South Side* Don “Donnie the Cat” Catazone – South Side* Joe Caulderello – West Side* Robery Cechini – Melrose Park* Salvatore Cecola – West Side/LV* Anthony Cerco – South Side/LV Anthony Cerone – Elmwood Park* James Cerone – Elmwood Park* John “Little Jackie” Cerone, Jr. – Elmwood Park* Charles “Chuckie C” Cesario Frank Ciangi – South Side Angelo Ciaravino – South Side Virgil “The Truck” Cimino – Melrose Park* Joe Ciolino – Melrose Park Anthony “Tony Sip” Cipriani - Elmowood Park Anthony “Tony Sing Sing/Tony Julian” Ciragani – Melrose Park* Rocco “The Biker” Circelli – Melrose Park* Nino Cisternino – Elmwood Park* Joe Cocco – South Side Frank Colanani – Melrose Park John Coli - South Side Mike Coli -South Side Billy Coli - Soyuth Side Jimmy Colucci - South Side Jimmy Coniglio – Melrose Park* Jimmy Contis – Melrose Park* Ralph Contacessi – South Side Pete Costello – South Side Tommy Covello – West Side* Ronnie Covello – West Side* Carl Covelli - Melrose Park Bobby Covone – Melrose Park Phil Cozzo – West Side* Sam Cozzo – West Side* John Credidio – South Side* Ronnie Crevilone* - west Side Albert Cundari – Elmwood Park* Billy Cundari – Elmwood Park* Butch Cundari – Elmwood Park* Joey Cussamano – Las Vegas* Joe Cutrano – South Side Guy D’amico – Elmwood Park* William “Little Willie/Small Fry Willie” Daddano, Jr. – Melrose Park* Louis “Louie Lips” Daddano – Melrose Park* John Dadanno – Melrose Park* Richard Dazzo – Elmwood Park Richard De Angelo - South Side Butch De Angelis – Elmwood Park Salvatore “Sammy Powder” De Cesare – Elmwood Park Anthony De Core – Elmwood Park Anthony De Falco Salvatore “Solly D/Sal the Pizza Man” De Laurentis – Melrose Park * Mario De Marco – Elmwood Park Frank De Rosa – Melrose Park* Ronnie De Rosa – Melrose Park* Richard “Richie the Mouse/Mousie” De Santis – South Side* Ronnie De Santis Salvatore “Little Sam” De Stefano – Elmwood Park Dominic De Silvio Matt De Vito – Elmwood Park Joey De Vita – Arizona* Paul Di Caro – South Side Charles “Charlie Specs” Di Caro – South Side* Joseph “Joe the Spider” Di Caro – South Side* Frank “Frankie 51” Di Constanza – South Side* Dominic “Captain D” Di Fazio – South Side * Joe Di Fronzo – Elmwood Park* James Di Guillo – Melrose Park Dominic Di Maggio – Melrose Park* Nick Di Maggio – Melrose Park* Louie Di Riggi – Elmwood Park* William “Billy D” Dileniemo – Elmwood Park Jimmy D’melio – Elmwood Park (former cop/electronics expert) Renato “Ray Ray” Di Silvestro – Las Vegas* William Di Domenico – South Side* Jimmy Di Domenico – South Side* Vincent Di Varco – Elmwood Park* Robert Dinella – South Side* Ralph Dolendi – Elmwood Park Robert “Bobby D” Dominic – Melrose Park* Joe Donzelli – LV Anthony “Tony Seymour/Tony D” Dote – Elmwood Park* Carl “CD” Dote – Elmwood Park* Vincenzo Ercolino (Italy/Sicily)* Nick Falzone Romeo “Flap Jack” Familynappi – South Side* Frank “Frankie Pasta” Esposito – West Side* Richard Ferraro, Jr. – South Side Gerry Ferraro – South Side Nick Ferriola – South Side* Rocco Fillipino Phil “Philly Boy” Fiore – South Side* Vincent Fiorlano* Tommy Fiorlano* Joseph “Joe Pep” Forienza - Rockford Peter Frigo John “Tiger” Frisella – Rockford Mike Fusco – Elmwood Park (narcotics) Joe Gallo – South Side Natala Galluzzo - Rockford Salvatore Galluzzo – Rockford Anthony Garipo – Melrose Park Jerry Gasparini – Elmwood Park Richard Gelsomino – Elmwood Park (narcotics) FRank "The Fireman" Geraci - Rockford Gary Gilberto – Elmwood Park Michael “Mikey Jaws” Giorgano – Elmwood Park/FLA* Gary “Little Gags” Gagliano – Elmwood Park* William Galioto – Melrose Park* Sam Galioto – Melrose Park* John Galioto – Melrose Park* Robert Garippo Richard “Richie G” Gervasio* Anthony Giannone Nick Gironda – South Side Frank “Frankie Gig” Granata, Jr. – South Side* Joseph “Joe Glasses” Greico – Melrose Park* Mike Greico – Melrose Park* Frank “Frankie Drywall” Guidice – South Side* Tommy Guiliano* Chris Guiliano * Michael “Mickey the Gorilla” Gurgone – South Side* Sammy Gurgone – South Side* Jimmy Gurgone – South Side* Chris Guzaldo Phil Guzzino Nicholas “Jumbo” Guzzino – South Side* Dominic Guzzino - South Side Roland Ignoffo – Elmwood Park* Jimmy Iannantone – South Side Anthony “Tony Peaches” Imperato – South Side* Frank “Frankie Cigars” Imperato – South Side* Ernest “Rocky” Infelice – Former UB (imprisoned)* Sam “Sammy I” Inendino – Melrose Park* Tintner Inserro – Melrose Park Anthony Juliano Pietro “Mustache Pete” La Balestra – Elmwood Park (narcotics)* John Di Giglio* John La Mana Mike La Mantia – Elmwood Park Rocco La Mantina – South Side Richard La Mantina – South Side Richard Lantini – Elmwood Park (narcotics) Joe La Scola John La Placa Nick Lamonica John Lanno Antillio Lavorata Sam Lenocci Geno Levato Anthony Lo Cocco Joseph "Joey the Clown" Lombardo - West Side Rocco Lombardo – West Side/LV* Joseph “Little Joe” Lombardo – West Side* Dominic Longo Ralph Madia – South Side* Bruno Mancari – South Side* Pete Mancari – South Side* Al Mancini – Elmwood Park Robert Mangiamele – South Side* Dominic Mangiamele – South Side* Joe Mangiamele – South Side* Anthony Maggio – Elmwood Park Mike Maglieri – South Side Mike Malmenato – West Side* Frank Marasso – South Side Frank “Frankie Frankenstein” Maranto – Elmwood Park* James “Jimmy the Man/Little Jimmy” Marcello – Melrose Park (imprisoned)* Rocco Marcello – Melrose Park* Michael “Big Mickey/Bozo” Marcello – Melrose Park (imprisoned)* Chris Marcotte Dino Marino – Melrose Park* Louis “Louie Tomatoes” Marino – Melrose Park (imprisoned) Charlie Marzano – Melrose Park* Ralph Mascio Thomas “Skinny Tommy” Matassa – Melrose Park* Francis “Patty May” Mazza – Elmwood Park* Joe “Joey May” Mazza – Elmwood Park* Pete Mazullo Lou Mazzei Anthony Menolocino – Elmwood Park Phil Mesi – Elmwood Park Clement “Big Clem” Messino – Elmwood Park* Christopher “Little Dickie” Messino – Elmwood Park* Danny Milano Carmen Miglori – Elmwood Park* Alphonse Mitria Sam Molosi Bruno Monaco August “Little Augie” Monteleone Lou Morelli Ray Morelli Tommy Moretti – Elmwood Park* Leonard Muscia Saverio Mussilanni Robert “Louie the Lmb” Musserino* Romeo Nappi – SoutJh Side Joe Napoli – Stone Park PD Robert Natale – Melrose Park* Tommy Navigato – Elmwood Park Paul Nicolosi John Nitti – West Side* Nick Nitti, jr.* Orlando Nudo – Elmwood Park Joe Oliveri – South Side Cosmo Orlando Joseph “Joe Popeye” Pacella – South Side Jimmy Pacella – South Side Billy Pacella – South Side Frank Palaggi Mike Palermo – South Side Skippy Palermo – South Side Frank Pannos – West Side* Louie Pannos – West Side* Robert Panozzo Charles “Dapper Charlie/Handsome Charlie” Parilli – West Side* Louie Parilli – West Side* Fred Pascente – West Side* Joseph “Joey Grapes/Joey Pooch” Pasucci – South Side* Michael “Mikey Pooch” Pasucci – South Side* Dane Passo – West Side* Al Pavone – South Side* Frank Peccia – Elmwood Park Rocco Pelletieri – South Side* Tommy Pennavaria – Elmwood Park Sam “Blackie” Pesoli – Elmwood Park* Vito Pesoli – Elmwood Park* Lee Pesoli – Elmwood Park* Mike Petruzzi – Melrose Park (former top Tornabene lieutenant)* Lawrence “Hungry Larry” Petitt – Elmwood Park* Joe Pettit – Elmwood Park* Anthony Petronella Ralph Pezuso – South Side Tommy Piazzo – South Side Aldo “Junior” Piscitteli – South Side* Vic Plescia Phil Ponto – West Side Francesco Portera – Elmwood Park Bernard “Bernie Press” Prestigiacomo – Elmwood Park* Michael “Mikey Press” Prestigiacomo - Elmwood Park Bobby Pullia – Melrose Park* Tommy Pullia – Melrose Park* Richard Randazzo – South Side (narcotics) Sam Ranola – South Side Frank Reda – South Side Nick Regilio Roger Riccio – West Side* Frank Riggio Ricky Rinelli – South Side Vito Rizzo – Elmwood Park Rick Rizzulo – LV Ralph Rizzolo – LV Dominic Romanazzi Al Rosetti – South Side* Mike Rossi Bruno “The Bomber” Roti – South Side* Fred Roti – South Side* Jimmy Roti – South Side* Frank Roti – South Side* Salvatore Rotundo Carmen Russo Freddy Russo Anthony Russo Anthony Sabbia – South Side Anthony Sanello – Elmwood Park* Natale Saraceno – Elmwood Park* Vito Salamone - South Side Joe Salamone - South Side Joseph “Big Joe/Joe Sal” Saladino – Rockford John “Johnny Finooch” Salamone – Rockford Pete Salanardi Rosario “Ray” Salerno – Elmwood Park Robert “Bobby the Boxer” Salerno – Melrose Park* John Sansone Nick Sarillio – Elmwood Park* Dominic Scalfaro – South Side Terry Scalise – South Side* Charlie Scalise – South Side* Jerome “Jerry the Hand” Scalise – South Side (semi-retired)* Tommy Scalise Don “Donnie the Sponge” Scalise – Elmwood Park* John Scardina – Melrose Park John Sciacatta Larry Scialabba – Melrose Park* Peter “Chicago Pete/The Music Man” Schivarelli – South Side* Mike “Little Ike” Schivarelli – South Side* Emil Schulo – Melrose Park Ralph Scorpio – West Side Mike Segretti – Elmwood Park John Serpico – Melrose Park John Simonelli Anthony Solano – Elmwood Park* Sam Somenzi – Elmwood Park Joe Spagnola – Elmwood Park Michael “Little Mikey” Spano, Jr. – Melrose Park* Paul Spano – Melrose Park* Joe Spano – Melrose Park* Steve Spano – Melrose Park* Joe Spatuzza – Elmwood Park Anthony “Smiling Tony” Spavone – Elmwood Park* Anthony Spillone Vito Spillone Mike Spingola Richard “Richie Spits” Spizzieri – Melrose Park* John “Johnny Spits” Spizzieri – Melrose Park* Pasquale Spizzinoco – Elmwood Park Ronnie Stella – Elmwood Park Pete Storino – South Side Victor “Fat Vic” Stramaglio – West Side* John Taglianetti – West Side Michael “The Nephew/Handsome Mike” Talerico – South Side* Joe Talerico – South Side* William “Louie the Printer/Big Louie” Tenuta Ray Tominello – South Side/FLA* Ray Tornabene – Melrose Park* Steve Torrello Carmine Trombetta – LV Robert “Bobby U” Urbinatti Gil Valerio Carmen Vece – retired Melrose Park PD Albert “The Falcon” Vena – West Side* Joe Venezia – Melrose Park* Michael “Mickey V” Ventresca – Elmwood Park Bruce Ventura Vic Vita – Melrose Park* Dana Vivano – South Side Sam “Sammy the Blaster” Voldepresto – Melrose Park* Joe Volpe – Elmwood Park* Pete Volpe – Melrose Park Santo Volpe – Melrose Park Dominic Volpe – Elmwood Park Joe Zeno – Elmwood Park Michael “A-I Mike” Zitello – Elmwood Park

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Great post Dapper
I've heard Andriacchi was sick but never knew Culotta was sick.
I can't find links about either of them. Does anyone have one?
As you can see there's way more than 28

Cool post Dapper!thanx

Now dap how many of those are "soldiers" per say? Ivy has told me the outfit only has 28 formally made members left aka they had a ceremony and what not

123, i wasnt the one who made this list just sharing. I am aware the Outfit started using the formal making ceremony much later than most.

I was only wondering due to the fact that it seemed like a lot of guys for Chicago

Thanks for the post, dapper.

Who had the ceremony or not is a very confusing thing with the outfit. IIRC, Carlisi started it when he was boss, then it was kept on and who knows if it even still happens. So lots of old guys never got it, so who knows all had "the ceremony".

IMO, if i were boss, haha, I would have stopped it. There is no other competition in Chicago. Only one family, so no need for lots of official soldiers. Those in the know, know whose who. So having a ceremony only adds to "made" guys and people talking about it. And targets from the FBI.

Better to be thought to have 10 made guys than 100. Now, i have no idea if this is true, just my two cents.

yeah, i suspect most of the vast majority of those guys listed arent made with the formal ceremony but might be influential, the guys who are made have the * next to their name.

interesting. i literally know next to nothing about chicago. i always thought they did the ceremony different over there.

Nice post, Dapper. Most of it is fairly accurate. I will say that Elmwood & Cicero can basically considered separate families altogether though at this point, with Grand & Chinatown being considered their own families as well, albeit on a much smaller scale. that's the way Aiuppa set it up.

I'd also personally place Inendino higher up than Solly D down there.

Elmwood park is the only crew/family that doesn't make members anymore.

And Christy fuckin spina is not even a top three in his own crew, let alone a top guy in the entire fuckin outfit lol. anyone going by what the feds say is a goof, they literally have no clue as to what they're talking about.

So Rico what guy in Chicago do you think has the most power?

That's so difficult to say. Naturally you would say Johnny Bananas or his brother, or Inendino or solly d, but there are bookies like Marco Damico who have far larger net worths than both those guys. Grand avenue is by far the weakest crew at this point, so it wouldn't be anyone from there.

Who's strongest? Southside? Elmwood? Cicero?.

And what crew would say is scariest or most violent today

Elmwood is primarily white collar, so if you're talking legitimate business, yes they are the most powerful. Cicero is by far the largest and most feared, and they handle the majority of street level stuff. Chinatown & grand are incomparable to both Cicero and Elmwood, but Chinatown is by far larger and more powerful than grand.

What ever happened to the chicago heights and rush street crews?

So who would make a guy Into let's say the Cicero faction Marcello? and is thier any member who has been rumored to be inducted under Marcello or even DiFronzo previously ?

Marcello, Inendino, and the rest of the Cicero upper echelon made over twenty members during the early 2000s. Their names are not known, but there have been rumoured to have been some very young men that were in that group.

@eyes, Chicago heights is most certainly still active. Very little is known about that crew. Rush street was sanctioned into Elmwood, as was Melrose park.

Dapper, awesome post. The most comprehensive view of the Outfit I've seen.

Impressive chart. Kudos to the one who made it. However, only a small fraction of the guys listed are formally inducted made members, the rest are associates. Also, I´m not sure everybody on the list is still alive today.

No way that chart is even remotely accurate, people love to live in a dream world and make out the Outfit still are a big family.

If the feds say 28, I'd believe that over the chart.

The Feds have always been a couple years behind. 28 is way low. There are more than 28 guys on the deck at The Grotto some nights. Ricobenes do you know anything about a crew operating in Valpo? Is that part of Chicago Heights? Thanks.

the chart is accurate tommy, look at the paragraph of members dapper posted

I'd like to believe you but I can't, so why is it accurate? Just because it was made by a guy on the internet?

All we can do to speculate how many members a family has is google searching articles and looking for indictments I'm afraid and trying to get any info we can.

The feds know at least 90% of made members in every crime family, I believe that 28-40 is accurate.

Why should I believe there are 70+ made guys?

The guys with the * are the confirmed made guys from my knowledge, probably number around 40. The 28 member figure was from 2007.

Im thinking around 30 made and perhaps an additional ten who have the status but no ceremony ie Sarno,Feriolla,etc

even if the some guys are not made they have the power/influence of some soldiers.

Sorry, but you're wrong, bud. The feds don't know much at all, actually. Maybe in NY cause guys are flipping right & left & getting caught with their dick out, but 90% in Chicago where nobody talks & nobody gets arrested is ridiculous. These are the same feds that legitimately thought Joe fucking Lombardo was the head of the outfit, when in reality, he ran its weakest crew. 40-50 made guys is a very low estimate.

For the last time nick ferriola has no status lol

@fried yes the valparaiso area & any type of gambling in Indiana, along with the casinos out there, belong mainly to the Heights. I personally know absolutely nothing about that family, other than they mainly deal with each other now, and sometimes Cicero.

I get a little lost when people refer to separate families in the Outfit. Are these 'families' not just autonomous crews? How was a split in to multiple 'families' allowed to happen. Thanks

Okay Barrett, excellent question, and I will try & explain this fascinating situation as best I can:

During the Outfit's arguable peak (the Giancana period), it was ran as one family. Sure, it was much larger, & there were more crews than the current 5, but no matter what happened, Ricca/Giancana had a final say in pretty much everything that took place. This proved detrimental, obviously, to the Outfit's longevity & well being, so during the mid to late 70s, Aiuppa/Cerone/Accardo constructed a different type of system, one where each crew was separately insulated and an entity unto itself, a "family", if you will, with Cicero & Elmwood Park being the two heaviest of these families, and Grand Ave, Chinatown, & the Heights being the three sub families, which continues to this day. Aiuppa also implemented people he trusted at the head of each family. In doing this, he allowed the outfit much more breathing room and insulation. LaPietra, Lombardo, Cerone, etc were all technically beneath Aiuppa & his Cicero family, but ran their own crews as if they were separate families entirely. IE, if you were/are a Chinatown soldier, you have no business fraternizing with an Elmwood soldier. You deal with members of your own family & answer to your boss. Likewise, the boss of, say, Grand Ave doesn't have to get everything okd by the top boss. He controls is crew as if it were his own private family, obtains much more power/control/responsibility. Families were in turn almost encouraged to not associate with members of other families, very similar to the NY set up, obviously on a much smaller, more secretive scale. Hope that helps, any other questions, please ask.

hey rico does the outfit involved with any families in other cities or is it just chicago area today?

Sure they do

Which ones might I ask? I could see something like Gary, Indiana but I thought they were long defunct in places like Omaha, Des Moines, Milwaukee, and Vegas where they once had crews.

Doubt they have anything in Gary. Almost all black there

Nothing is ever defunct in Vegas lol, especially these days with how gigantic it is, they're still out there. LA area as well as San Diego, and KC, MO, Cleveland, and I'm sure some guys rub elbows with ny & philly/ny guys, but that's nothing new. Outfit has always had heavy interests in Mexico, Caribbean, central America, and especially aruba and south America as well.

I must remind you guys that Rico was caught lying recently. Just saying...

No I wasn't, al capone is my cousin haha we went to da bears game on Sunday. This clown just crawls right out of the woodwork ehh

That´s funny! Where have you been the last two weeks or so? I bet you´ve been lurking around in the dark but haven´t been able to post. Howcome?
And yes, you were caught lying. How can you deny that?

Where have I been? What the hell kind of question is that? What do you care? First you want to know where I "get my information from", then what I do during my spare time. What's next? Want my address & telephone number? And I don't recall ever lying. I do, however, recall clowning on some puny little goofball though, that I remember...

Sorry guys but yall sound like a couple! kidding!cheers

Ricobenes comes across as a blatant liar to me, giving out all this information like there facts when he has no proof.

Let me guess, your from Chicago Rico? Just because Chicago is now one of the smaller families you try and make things up, very sad individual.

Well, he´s certainly an individual who´s got his facts wrong that´s for sure.

Rico, you are still not going to answer any of my questions are you? Being defensive does not help you in any way, I can tell you that. Why don´t you just admit that your sources are in fact crazy ideas popping up in your head while reading comic books and taking baths?
You are living in a fantasy world, pretending to be a wiseguy who knows stuff about the outfit just because you "heard things on the street". It´s time to wake up and smell the coffey my friend. Get back to reality, get real and stop bullshitting about the outfit being an all mighty gang with pull throughout the US, Mexico, Carribean, Central America etc. You look like a fool.

One more thing. I hope I´m not hurting your feelings...but Giancana was a muppet!

Giancana was a muppet alright,BUT one of the best muppets around at the time

I want to add something about the Giancana situation...yes Giancana was a muppet but the Chi Outfit made a LOT of money and international connections during Mooneys reign,so the real boss of the Outfit after Capone till 1972 was RICCA.After Ricca's death a lot of his proteges were eliminated,including Giancana for what ever reasons.

Supposedly Frank Nitti was boss after capone until his suicide apparently to avoid prison because he was claustrophobic .

I always thought Ricca and Accardo were of equal status in the Outfit?

This is just my opinion...you can read in many Chi Outfit books or docs or what ever,that on the meetings Ricca always had the last word.I remember Chuck Giancana sayin in his book that even as kids they knew that Ricca was the real thing not Nitti,now why would he lie about that?!.My opinion is that Nitti was a front boss for the Chi commission.Ricca and Accardo were the young turks,takin over things at the time.One time Ricca went to jail and Accardo busted his ass of work to get Ricca out,so what does that tell ya?!

I like how you start off by saying it's your opinion then present it as fact . Anyway...you're probably right i barely know anything about Chicago haven't read any books on them. I probably hearrd that in a cheesy documentary

Youre not the first one sayin that but...what can i do?!

Okay is this hairyknuckles guy the officially appointed thread derailer around here or something? Just constantly sticking his nose where he knows he's not welcomed. Am I getting what do you people call it, trolled and I didn't even know it? Hahahaha

Guys, take this stuff off the boards. If you can't speak to each other civilly then ignore each other.

Toodoped no offense pal you seem like a nice guy but you're completely lost

Yes camarel nitti certainly became boss after capone left, and was really the top guy during capones last few years. Nitti was really a very intelligent, rational guy, and I believe would have became the long reigning boss with Ricca by his side. Ricca said he learned a lot of his aesthetics from Nitti. But like you said, the can was just too much for him, and he would have rather died than flipped, Chicago style

No Accardo was never, ever on the level of Ricca haha, and they were never young turks together. Accardo was a mid level level Taylor street guy that moved up to the Patch (grand ave) during the prime of Taylor st & Giancana/Ricca's 42 Gang. It then became Taylor St. vs Grand Ave during that period back then, with Accardo/Cerone heading Grand Ave (the weaker crew) & Giancana/Ricca controlling Taylor st, which was the absolutely powerhouse. Giancana was Paul's protege, and Jackie Cerone was Accardo's. There was a ton of hate on Grand Ave & Cicero back then because they were the two weakest crews, and it ended coming back to bite Sam in the ass when he came home, as Aiuppa's Cicero had ironically become the dominant crew in a very short period of time (joey o was one power hungry guy). Things changed rather quickly & drastically when Giancana went away & Aiuppa was free to place his trusted Cicero guys where old Taylor st guys previously sat pretty. Chinatown is a prime example of that. Hope that helps.

Also don't be ridiculous the outfit isn't some mega gang that controls various parts of the world. They just aren't as tiny as some of you might think. They have interests & a few guys here & there throughout the places I mentioned haha, its not like they're controlling cocaine distribution in Venezuela or something pfffhahahaha

SC understood buddy I'm done with this specimen hahaha

On the chart it says they have operatives in Italy. Is that true?

First of all thanx for the compliments,second i dont agree on the part that Ricca and the others learned a lot from Nitti,they considered him as an idiot and third...who the f**k sad somethin about the present outfit?!Im talkin about the past,the Giancana times and yes,in thouse times they couldve improt cocaine even from Venezuela if they wanted to

Eyes, yes I'm sure that's true.

Also no one ever considered frank Nitti an idiot honestly where in shit's name do you kids come up with this crapola?

And I wasn't responding to you with the modern outfit stuff, that was someone else. Other people post here......crazy right?

Also don't be ridiculous the outfit isn't some mega gang that controls various parts of the world. They just aren't as tiny as some of you might think. They have interests & a few guys here & there throughout the places I mentioned haha, its not like they're controlling cocaine distribution in Venezuela or something pfffhahahaha

^^^ Who are you refering to here?

"Import cocaine" Hahaha "yes ill have seventy kilos of fishscale, please. That will be debit"

I don't know, I forget, someone who got their panties bunched up on the last page, I'm starting to lose count haha!!!!

You like to fly dont you?

I like traveling

I like strip clubs.Say hello to your family from me. im off!cheers

have you seen this chart ricobenes?
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7967/outfitt.gif

Chicago has always had a relationship with Detroit as well. There is a Detroit solider living in the West Burbs of Chicago, but I don't know the arrangement the families have together.

Ahh I'm on the mobile Eyes, it won't load. Who made it and how old is it??

scott burnstein in 2010

I'm sure its the same as Cleveland or anywhere else, Fried. Couple guys rubbing elbows & breaking bread. Remember people saying "oh Cleveland is dead, collinwood is dead" and then the Fratto taps get revealed & turns out, WRONG, hahahah

Rico,

Couple of questions for you. Does the Chinatown crew have the River North area? A lot of bars, restaurants, properties have sprung up in that area in the last decade. I know the Barleycorn, Moes Cantina owner is a Bridgeport guy. A few years ago before Richie Cat passed he stopped into BOSS Bar with a young Italian bodybuilder type. I was the only guy in there that afternoon. All of the staff came up and greeted him like he was royalty. Did he have a piece of it? Also are you familiar with the Marco Island. Outfit has been going down there since the Capone days. Seems like a lot of the CME/Oakbrook guys have places down there or no?

Fried, I will not comment on the river north area, sorry. Yes Marco island has always been an outfit hotbed.

rico have you ever been to gene and georgettis

Yes of course, many times. Why?

If that's the chart that has Joe Andrich as a top guy, its pretty far off. Any chart that has Chicago as one family is going to be off, its two now. There isn't a viable outfit chart out there and probably won't be another one for quite some time. People are just gonna have to accept that for what it is.

do you think it's a mob hangout?

you should make a chart

Haha I'm not making a chart. Gene & Georgetti's of course is a hangout, that's the obvious one. Volare & the Gibson's patio are the other two in that area, amongst many others, but those are the three you will see a lot of older heavies at. The young guys have different hangouts, naturally.

Please explain this a little more. What positions do you speak of that "sat pretty". How is Chinatown a prime example of that?

Very informative. I have been looking for something like this for a while. Thanks.

Also, in this setup, how often did each crew boss meet with Aiuppa? Ever? Never? Would they have to? Could Aiuppa supersede a crew bosses decision?

Ok, I will agree to disagree on a few of those things but some of it seems solid. Which guys did Aiuppa put in to Chinatown, and who did they replace? Offhand can you name any Aiuppa loyalists that came in to power after the Giancana loyalists went away? Who were his loyalists basically.

EDIT: Yeah I have the same question as PP.

I knoe Angelo LaPietra was the South side captain for a while

Right, LaPietra was the big one. Skids Caruso ran Chinatown for almost 20 years and was "asked" to step down so that Aiuppa could implement Angelo, who nevertheless continued to take care of the Carusos & the Rotis, as Aiuppa wouldn't dare snap those 1st ward ties. Taylor st was completely deactivated & all of its action shifted down Ashland to Chinatown, with LaPietra going from mere capo in Cicero to fully fledged king of Chinatown. Melrose park was sanctioned into Elmwood park, because Aiuppa did not want a crew to be based out of his hometown, therefore making Elmwood Park the second largest crew. Cerone was given Elmwood, making him 2nd in command, with accardo continuing to act as consigliere as he always had. Lombardo who was close with Cerone was given grand ave (at an extremely young age) after accardo & Cerone left for Elmwood. Keep in mind Aiuppa reached out to accardo/Cerone when Sam & Ricca froze them all out. Aiuppa had brought Cicero back into fruition which was deemed an impossible task (which is why Sam "gave" it to him, despite Aiuppa pleading for his hometown of Melrose park). Aiuppa/Cerone/accardo had been planning to overthrow Taylor st since the early 60s, they just needed to wait out their opening. Trust that if Sam hadn't gotten unlucky Aiuppa never would have became boss.

To answer PPs questions, like I stated, Aiuppa set up the outfit like a miniature version of NY if you will. of course Aiuppa & Cerone still maintained top control and final say in serious situations, but each crew boss was given much more power, and that particular crew boss's capos became more powerful, and the crew in general. Bosses were/are encouraged to keep to themselves and encourage their soldiers not to associate with soldiers from other crews. Rarely is a Chinatown guy familiar with the inner workings of the Elmwood park crew, etc etc. for example, if you'll read through, say, Nick Calabreses testimony, he said he had met Al Tocco & Marcello (and others) for the first time during his making ceremony, in his late 40s, had never seen them or heard of them previously. That was not uncommon. If a guy from Cicero gets popped, he wont be able to give them anything on any of the other crews, and due to the intimacy of his own crew/family probably wouldn't flip (hopefully) on them either. It was pretty genius, and allows the outfit to operate in relative secrecy until this day. Carlisi/Marcello & DiFronzo did a lot to continue Aiuppas vision as well. Infelice almost ruined it for everyone haha

So im guessing there's nothing going on in taylor street today?
And do you know much about Toots Caruso? Not much about him online

Taylor street & Melrose park are just Italian neighbourhoods now, there are no crews there anymore. Cicero is very strange. The name of the crew is Cicero, but there is no business conducted in Cicero and no Italians live there anymore, they just run the town & tax the Hispanics that live there now, and the Cicero crew operates out of SW burbs.

Skids Caruso was a guy from Taylor st, strong made guy out of giancanas 42 gang. Sam gave him Chinatown when the Italians first settled into that area and Skids made it his own, married into the roti family I believe, and the rest is history. His son & namesake, you know who, current king of Chinatown is the Caruso most think of when they hear the name these days. Lapietra mentored Skids kids well and always kept them relevant down there. Skids is a legend and one of the most well respected guys in the history of the thing, tough guy, so are his kids.

So is Frank Caruso one of the most powerful capos in the outfit today? Or is it Matassa, Pete Difronzo, ect

Matussa

Tootsie Caruso is the boss of Chinatown & has been for over a decade now, yes that family is extremely powerful. Pete is extremely wealthy & powerful as well, matassa is not near either of them in terms of power, but also a very serious guy.

I mean I would assume he's a very series guy could you please elaborate? I think I changed my mind and would go with Difronzo I don't follow the outfit as closely as other members of this board do but hasn't Difronzo's allegiance been questioned before I feel that he may feed some information to the feds in order to keep things running no?

Is he involved with unions? Chicago Construction Companies seem to run deep when they can outbid a non-union company by $50 million dollars on a job!

I'm sorry I don't know who or what we are comparing.

Who has the most influence within the outfit? Everyone thinks their such a mystery I think they have a lot of legitimate business's that launder a lot of money that's just be speculating though I'm not an expert on the outfit

Influence is such a broad term. Influence in regards to what? If you're talking the two most respected, powerful guys, you have to say probably Johnny Bananas or Jimmy Inendino, but they are old, old men. Bananas in particular is a little old man that you can see driving down Harlem every day getting coffee and going home to his little two flat. Those guys aren't active street guys in any way, but they're probably the two most respected elder statesmen & garner the most respect. Johnny never even wanted to be boss, it was dumped on him when Marcello went away the first time. Elmwood park isn't so much active on the street. They've even let Cicero have a lot of their turf. Elmwood is large grocery store chains, huge legitimate companies, casinos, condos, and so forth. Not to say there aren't still feared hard heads in Elmwood, but its absolutely nothing like Cicero, Chinatown, or even grand ave or the heights. If you want real old time, old school Chicago outfit, you go out to Lombard, Westchester, bridgeport, Berwyn, etc. As far as most feared, id say guys like Tootsie & Solly D are still very powerful, very feared individuals. They are still relatively young(ish) & active on the street, especially the Carusos. The older guys aren't anything to worry about anymore, no one is worried about johnny bananas geriatric ass breaking down their door lol. The young guys control a lot now, especially young Cicero guys, and you won't hear their names until 10-15 maybe 20 years from now, if they ever get popped for anything. I'm sure it'll happen eventually

^^ Yeah I bet your a solider

Lol you wish. Then you could all run & tell your buddies that you talked to a real outfit guy!!

W

lol Yeah whatever man The outfit my ass

Haha go ahead & think that Italian street level crime in Chicago doesn't exist, they love guys like you. Keep them under the radar.

Also I believe you implied pudge matassa has more power than Tootsie Caruso & Pete DiFronzo...what would lead you to assume that?

Who the fuck is pudge matassa



I haven't been able to shit in two days ...

Haha dicknose you're killing me

But I've also heard that Difronzo might be an informant as well. Not to say I also haven't heard the top echelon of Chicago is loaded in terms of owning property and money.

Are you kidding? The DiFronzos own tons of property and are millionaire's.
And dicknose pudgy matassa is the captain of the cicero crew

Sorry nicky that was a typo on my part. I "have" heard that Difronzo and company are very wealthy

I love how you're an expert on the outfit now since you've asked Ricobenes a few questions

When did i ever say i was an expert? I never asked any of the things he told me in my post because i knew that before. Nice try

Nicky i was kidding it was just funny that after 4 pages of your questions you started providing the answers

Ok but everything i know wasn't from asking questions on here

The best laugh today had gotta be the roy demeo andy warhol colored portrait on mobguys facebook