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#645051 - 04/25/12 08:32 PM Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
Found this article in the archives of gangland and though it was really interesting so thought I would share. (I searched older posts on this site but couldnt find anything on it). I wonder if Gotti and Demeo worked together on anything else?? The reason for the killing is pretty hilarious.

Murder Most Fowl



Strictly business is the mob credo when it comes to dirty deeds. But some are strictly personal.

When Paul Castellano (right) learned from his daughter that her boyfriend had insulted him royally, the powerful gangster recruited a couple of tough, eager-to-please, budding mob executives to eliminate the problem, permanently.

And so, years before John Gotti and Joseph Massino rose to the top of the Gambino and Bonanno families, sources say they got together to kill the offending boyfriend, Vito Borelli. The murder is an untold chapter of Mafia history that has stayed buried for more than 25 years, along with the whereabouts of Borelliís body.

The boyfriendís fatal mistake? He said out loud what Castellanoís pals were afraid to: that the Gambino family big shot, a butcher by trade, looked a lot like Frank Perdue, the resourceful businessman/self-promoter with a popular brand of chickens. For those too young to remember, this wasnít a compliment. Perdue, starring in his own TV commercials, seemed to resemble a chicken, looking plucked and slightly beaked as he famously squawked: ďIt takes a tough man to make a tender chicken.Ē

The tale was told for the first time by turncoat Bonanno family underboss Salvatore Vitale, whose sister is Massinoís wife. Vitale, who will be a star witness at Massinoís upcoming trial, has told the FBI that he was called on to help Massino, Gotti and


several others dispose of Borelliís body in 1975 after they killed him at a Manhattan cookie business that was operated by Bonanno soldier Anthony Rabito.

Vitale (right) has told the feds that he took part in nine murders with his brother-in-law, including Borelliís. But he insists he didnít learn about Borelliís execution until after it happened, according to court papers.

Initially, sources say, Massino had instructed Vitale to pick up a stolen van from a cohort and leave it parked outside Rabitoís store with the keys under the seat. Later, however, Massino called him and told him to bring his own car to the location because the van wouldnít start.

When Vitale arrived, sources said, he saw Massino outside with Dominick (Sonny Black) Napolitano, Rabito, Gotti, and two wiseguys who would later play huge roles in Castellanoís assassination Ė Angelo Ruggiero and Frank DeCicco.

Vitale said that after he backed his car against the building, the crew placed a body wrapped in a tan drop cloth into the trunk. Ruggiero and DeCicco then


got in the car and directed him to a Queens garage.

At the garage, Vitale said, several men were waiting, including one who was holding a knife. When the body was removed from the trunk, he noticed that Borelli appeared to have been shot in the face and body, and was wearing only his underwear. Years later, Vitale told the feds, he saw a newspaper photo of Roy DeMeo, (left) the notorious mob hitman whose specialty was carving up bodies like a Perdue chicken. DeMeo, he said, was one of the men waiting in the garage.

Vitale completed his duties that night by dropping off Ruggiero and DeCicco at the late Dapper Donís Ozone Park social club, the Bergin Hunt & Fish Club. A few days later, Vitale recalled, Massino explained that Borelli had been dating Castellanoís daughter and had insulted him in front of his daughter, saying ďthat Paul Castellano had looked like Frank Perdue.Ē

The episode had a couple of eerie echoes for Castellano. One was that, as much as Paul Castellano didnít want to look like Frank Perdue, he didnít mind doing business with him. A year after Borelliís murder, Castellano rose to become boss of the family with the death of his brother in law, Carlo Gambino. The step up allowed Big Paul to spread his wings, and he soon arranged for his own company, Dial Poultry, to distribute Perdue chickens. The chicken men apparently hit it off. When Perdue had union problems at a Queens restaurant he was opening in 1981, he sought Castellanoís advice about straightening things out.

The other echo occurred in 1980, when another of his daughterís sweethearts offended him. This time, Frank Amato had already married the bossís daughter when Castellano had him killed. The executioner, according to FBI documents, was none other than knife man Roy Demeo, who cut up Amatoís body and disposed of the remains at sea.

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#645052 - 04/25/12 08:39 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
NickyScarfo Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 1587

Loc: Perth Australia
Sometimes its glossed over how ruthless Castellano was, he had more people whacked than Gotti, maybe because him himself wasn't a tough guy it's forgotten, but he ordered many.

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#645129 - 04/26/12 08:02 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
GaryH Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 688

Loc: Northumberland England
Frank Amato was the stupidiest man alive! - he beat his wife (Pauls Daughter)
I dunno what Amato thought was gonna happen!
It should have been obvious though.

As for the Vito Borelli murder, I can understand Demeo being involved given that dismemberment was his stock and trade but why involve so many other guys?
Surely for a murder the less the better?
That way its less guys to rat about what they saw if they get busted years later!
But killing a guy because he calls you Frank Perdue is a bit over the top!
Thats the mob for you!

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#645130 - 04/26/12 08:24 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: GaryH]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: GaryH
Frank Amato was the stupidiest man alive! - he beat his wife (Pauls Daughter)
I dunno what Amato thought was gonna happen!
It should have been obvious though.

As for the Vito Borelli murder, I can understand Demeo being involved given that dismemberment was his stock and trade but why involve so many other guys?
Surely for a murder the less the better?
That way its less guys to rat about what they saw if they get busted years later!
But killing a guy because he calls you Frank Perdue is a bit over the top!
Thats the mob for you!

Very Good point Gary. I think you are right. demeo was an asscoaite of Nino gaggi and Nino was a soldier in castellanos crew at this time so it would make sense for demeo to be involved. massino and sonny black really had no relationship with Paul. Paul did use gotti for hits but that was years later and also gotti was in jail in 1975 when vito was murdered

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#645131 - 04/26/12 08:26 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Toodoped Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/03/12
Posts: 1692

Loc: Underground
cool article!bravo
_________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant: "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the Rule of Honor

ďBehind every great fortune, there is a crime!Ē

What's the diference between the Government and the Mafia?

-One of them is organized!

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#645146 - 04/26/12 09:36 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Skinny_Vinny Offline

Capo
Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 422

Loc: Tampa and Queens
would love to know what Queens garage it was.

as much as I believe the story, why would someone be holding a knife at the garage? makes no sense to carry a knife in the open when the work would obviously be done at another location(guessing the lounge).

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#645150 - 04/26/12 09:55 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: NickyScarfo]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
Yeah good point I bet Castellano ordered a lot of hits. I wonder what other hits Gotti was involved in directly. I know he was there when Mcbratney was shot, and Henry Hill claims he killed Tommy Desimone (I thnk Agro did it for him) but Im wondering who else he killed. I really dont know much about his criminial activities other than being capo or boss and ordering hits.

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#645151 - 04/26/12 10:02 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
Yeah good point I bet Castellano ordered a lot of hits. I wonder what other hits Gotti was involved in directly. I know he was there when Mcbratney was shot, and Henry Hill claims he killed Tommy Desimone (I thnk Agro did it for him) but Im wondering who else he killed. I really dont know much about his criminial activities other than being capo or boss and ordering hits.

Gotti wasn't involved in hits directly he mostly ordered hits. he was a tough guy but not a hitman. McBratney was the only one which he was involved but he wasnt the shooter. Desimone was most liely killed by agro but gotti maybe ordered it since he was acting capo at the time and agro was just a soldier. he was also involved in the murder of a gambino soldier in florida named Anthony Plate in 1979 but i've heard that willie boy and angleo killed him on gotti's orders


Edited by JCrusher (04/26/12 10:03 PM)

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#645178 - 04/27/12 05:14 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
phatmatress Offline

Underboss
Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 1171

Loc: pittsburgh pa
gotti feared demeo
_________________________
I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!

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#645180 - 04/27/12 05:31 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
^^^everybody feared demeo
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645241 - 04/27/12 10:27 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: phatmatress]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
When Gotti was in jail in Marion he was taped talking to Peter and Victoria about Junior's trial and how he was indicted with a bunch of lowlifes that had nothing to do with him. He compared it to Castellanos trial with Demeos crew and said Casteallo was indicted with "Demeo and a bunch of asshole kids"

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#645244 - 04/27/12 10:37 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
IvyLeague Offline


Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 6779
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
When Gotti was in jail in Marion he was taped talking to Peter and Victoria about Junior's trial and how he was indicted with a bunch of lowlifes that had nothing to do with him. He compared it to Castellanos trial with Demeos crew and said Casteallo was indicted with "Demeo and a bunch of asshole kids"


One of Gotti's best lines ever came from that rant. When he asked what Junior was doing with all these "butlers and waiters."
_________________________
"If you believe there's a hell...I don't know if you're into that...but we're already pretty much going there, right? But I'm not going to lie down until I get there."

- Walter White

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#645259 - 04/28/12 12:26 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
When Gotti was in jail in Marion he was taped talking to Peter and Victoria about Junior's trial and how he was indicted with a bunch of lowlifes that had nothing to do with him. He compared it to Castellanos trial with Demeos crew and said Casteallo was indicted with "Demeo and a bunch of asshole kids"

Gotti was a good talker but its common knowledge that he was absolutely terrified of castellano and the demeo crew. In fact gene gotti was recorded telling Angelo that John wanted no part of demeo becuase he had an army of killers not asshole kids lol. also back in the late 70's and early 80's when Big paul was at his most powerful Gotti would shit his pants if he was sent for a meeting. He used to say nervously "What did i do"


Edited by JCrusher (04/28/12 12:27 AM)

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#645335 - 04/28/12 07:25 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: IvyLeague]
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor


Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 18310

Loc: Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
One of Gotti's best lines ever came from that rant. When he asked what Junior was doing with all these "butlers and waiters."

Yeah, that was pretty funny lol.
_________________________
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.

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#645348 - 04/28/12 10:20 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
yeah totally... asshole kids that he was scared of. haha

I missed that butlers and waiters line.. hilarious.

one the guys in Gotti Jr's indictment was called "Sigmond the Sea Monster" so Gotti Sr goes "Where do these creatures emerge from?"


Edited by FaticoWestIslip (04/28/12 10:24 PM)

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#645349 - 04/28/12 10:52 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
When Gotti was in jail in Marion he was taped talking to Peter and Victoria about Junior's trial and how he was indicted with a bunch of lowlifes that had nothing to do with him. He compared it to Castellanos trial with Demeos crew and said Casteallo was indicted with "Demeo and a bunch of asshole kids"

Gotti was a good talker but its common knowledge that he was absolutely terrified of castellano and the demeo crew. In fact gene gotti was recorded telling Angelo that John wanted no part of demeo becuase he had an army of killers not asshole kids lol. also back in the late 70's and early 80's when Big paul was at his most powerful Gotti would shit his pants if he was sent for a meeting. He used to say nervously "What did i do"



and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645355 - 04/29/12 01:43 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
When Gotti was in jail in Marion he was taped talking to Peter and Victoria about Junior's trial and how he was indicted with a bunch of lowlifes that had nothing to do with him. He compared it to Castellanos trial with Demeos crew and said Casteallo was indicted with "Demeo and a bunch of asshole kids"

Gotti was a good talker but its common knowledge that he was absolutely terrified of castellano and the demeo crew. In fact gene gotti was recorded telling Angelo that John wanted no part of demeo becuase he had an army of killers not asshole kids lol. also back in the late 70's and early 80's when Big paul was at his most powerful Gotti would shit his pants if he was sent for a meeting. He used to say nervously "What did i do"



and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season

I never said Gotti wasnt a killer or that he didnt have balls. I just said he wasnt totally fearless it is documented that he feared certain people. Also the hit on Big paul was a good time for gotti because paul was very vulnerable because of the heat he had on him. At that time Paul didnt have the westies or demeo crew anymore. I mean i cant lie and say gotti feared nobody since gene gotti was on tape saying his brother wanted absoluetly no part of demeo. Just trying to be honest

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#645357 - 04/29/12 02:51 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
IvyLeague Offline


Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 6779
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don


and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season



Gotti pretty much had to make a move at that point. Dellacroce was dead and Paul was going to at least break up his crew, if not have Gotti killed.
_________________________
"If you believe there's a hell...I don't know if you're into that...but we're already pretty much going there, right? But I'm not going to lie down until I get there."

- Walter White

Top
#645358 - 04/29/12 02:54 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: IvyLeague]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don


and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season



Gotti pretty much had to make a move at that point. Dellacroce was dead and Paul was going to at least break up his crew, if not have Gotti killed.


True, but it still takes balls to take out a boss.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645359 - 04/29/12 02:55 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
I feel that if Gotti was forced to whack DeMeo (eg either do it or your gone) im sure Johnny Boy would have made an attempt on DeMeo at least. Gievn what we know about his track record.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645360 - 04/29/12 02:59 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
When Gotti was in jail in Marion he was taped talking to Peter and Victoria about Junior's trial and how he was indicted with a bunch of lowlifes that had nothing to do with him. He compared it to Castellanos trial with Demeos crew and said Casteallo was indicted with "Demeo and a bunch of asshole kids"

Gotti was a good talker but its common knowledge that he was absolutely terrified of castellano and the demeo crew. In fact gene gotti was recorded telling Angelo that John wanted no part of demeo becuase he had an army of killers not asshole kids lol. also back in the late 70's and early 80's when Big paul was at his most powerful Gotti would shit his pants if he was sent for a meeting. He used to say nervously "What did i do"



and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season

I never said Gotti wasnt a killer or that he didnt have balls. I just said he wasnt totally fearless it is documented that he feared certain people. Also the hit on Big paul was a good time for gotti because paul was very vulnerable because of the heat he had on him. At that time Paul didnt have the westies or demeo crew anymore. I mean i cant lie and say gotti feared nobody since gene gotti was on tape saying his brother wanted absoluetly no part of demeo. Just trying to be honest


This is what you are talking about

"By 1982, the FBI was investigating the enormous number of missing and murdered persons who were linked to DeMeo or who had last been seen entering the Gemini Lounge. It is around this time that an FBI bug in the home of Gambino family soldier Angelo Ruggiero picked up a conversation between Angelo and Gene Gotti, a brother of John Gotti.

In the conversation, it is discussed that Paul Castellano had put out a hit on DeMeo, but was having difficulty finding someone willing to do the job. Gene Gotti mentions that his brother John was wary of taking the contract, as DeMeo had an "army of killers" around him. It is also mentioned in this same secretly recorded conversation that, at that time, John had killed fewer than 10 people, while DeMeo had killed at least 38. According to mob turncoat Sammy Gravano, eventually the contract was given to Frank DeCicco, but Frank and his crew couldn't get to DeMeo either. DeCicco allegedly handed the job to Roy's own men."


Edited by Dapper_Don (04/29/12 03:03 AM)
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645361 - 04/29/12 03:06 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
I feel that if Gotti was forced to whack DeMeo (eg either do it or your gone) im sure Johnny Boy would have made an attempt on DeMeo at least. Gievn what we know about his track record.

dont know about that he was was pretty scared according to jerry Capeci. also vic and gas tried to kill him and actually killed frankie decicco and gotti did nothing. I wouldnt blame him of being scared of Vic and Gas they were jus ast bad as demeo

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#645362 - 04/29/12 03:08 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: IvyLeague]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don


and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season



Gotti pretty much had to make a move at that point. Dellacroce was dead and Paul was going to at least break up his crew, if not have Gotti killed.

Exactly. also like i said Big paul wasn't exactly at full strength or he couldnt afford to kill gotti with all that heat he had on him. gotti just had a littl eluck and he took it

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#645365 - 04/29/12 03:44 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Ivan Offline

Underboss
Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 540
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip

one the guys in Gotti Jr's indictment was called "Sigmond the Sea Monster" so Gotti Sr goes "Where do these creatures emerge from?"


The best part of that rant came afterward when he started making up stupid nicknames (not actually in the indictment) that he felt would go along well with "sigmund the sea monster". I remember a couple of them were "Louie the one-handed leprechaun" and "Sal jumps over the fence".

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#645366 - 04/29/12 03:50 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
I feel that if Gotti was forced to whack DeMeo (eg either do it or your gone) im sure Johnny Boy would have made an attempt on DeMeo at least. Gievn what we know about his track record.

dont know about that he was was pretty scared according to jerry Capeci. also vic and gas tried to kill him and actually killed frankie decicco and gotti did nothing. I wouldnt blame him of being scared of Vic and Gas they were jus ast bad as demeo


please provide the capeci article on that, idk about gotti fearing vic and gas at that point he wasnt even sure it was them who attempted to kill him.

dont forget the attempted hit on casso which was orchestrated by mikey paradiso on behalf of quack quack, boriello, and lino

http://books.google.com/books?id=NYGfl0Y...hit&f=false


Edited by Dapper_Don (04/29/12 03:55 AM)
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645367 - 04/29/12 03:51 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don


and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season



Gotti pretty much had to make a move at that point. Dellacroce was dead and Paul was going to at least break up his crew, if not have Gotti killed.

Exactly. also like i said Big paul wasn't exactly at full strength or he couldnt afford to kill gotti with all that heat he had on him. gotti just had a littl eluck and he took it


idk if gotti would have gotten whacked by the rank and file who loved johnny boy and despised paul.

we will never know
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645368 - 04/29/12 03:53 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
I feel that if Gotti was forced to whack DeMeo (eg either do it or your gone) im sure Johnny Boy would have made an attempt on DeMeo at least. Gievn what we know about his track record.

dont know about that he was was pretty scared according to jerry Capeci. also vic and gas tried to kill him and actually killed frankie decicco and gotti did nothing. I wouldnt blame him of being scared of Vic and Gas they were jus ast bad as demeo


please provide the capeci article on that, idk about gotti fearing vic and gas at that point he wasnt even sure it was them who attempted to kill him.

dont forget the attempted hit on casso which was orchestrated by mikey paradiso on behalf of quack quack.

Well I've heard it come from his own mouth on a few documentaries. It will take me a little while but i will provide it if you think im not telling the truth dude lol. I get that you are a gotti fan and he was a tough guy but he did fear certain people simple as that

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#645370 - 04/29/12 03:58 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
actually i am not a fan of any mobster

funny you bring up casso, cause i am very familiar with casso, gotti, massino, basciano, among others. I have his book and have am very well read up on his case.

remember casso was a perpetual liar... i saw those documentaries, i remember al darco saying sammy gravano was scared of them but they could never get gotti cause the media was around around him
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



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#645371 - 04/29/12 03:59 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don


and what did gotti orchestrate on big paul? whacked him out in the middle of midtown during the holiday season



Gotti pretty much had to make a move at that point. Dellacroce was dead and Paul was going to at least break up his crew, if not have Gotti killed.

Exactly. also like i said Big paul wasn't exactly at full strength or he couldnt afford to kill gotti with all that heat he had on him. gotti just had a littl eluck and he took it


idk if gotti would have gotten whacked by the rank and file who loved johnny boy and despised paul.

we will never know


"loved Johnny Boy" LOL Ok Then. I dont think they loved johnny boy gotti but i agree they werent happy with paul anymore. but remmeber sammy and probably others wanted Decicco to be the boss but Frank knew gotti was an egomaniac so they made a pact that they would give gotti a year as boss and if he sucked they would whack him. so actually decicco getting blown up was good for gotti because they probably woould have killed him anyway because he drew so much attention from the feds

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#645372 - 04/29/12 04:01 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster

funny you bring up casso, cause i am very familiar with casso, gotti, massino, basciano, among others. I have his book and have am very well read up on his case.

remember casso was a perpetual liar... i saw those documentaries, i remember al darco saying sammy gravano was scared of them but they could never get gotti cause the media was around around him

They did the smart thing. Why would you attempt to whack a guy when the media is always around him. Also you answered my question sammy was scared of them so that means gotti was scared because sammy was a hitman while gotti was not

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#645373 - 04/29/12 04:03 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
i am aware of decicco and that plan but its debateable if they even would have killed john if frankie was whacked, remember that info comes from gravano who hated gotti at that point when he wrote that in his book, wiretaps of other gambino soldiers like frankie loc talk about how the soldiers on the street love gotti and that he was always worried they couldnt earn/werent earning enough
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645374 - 04/29/12 04:06 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster

funny you bring up casso, cause i am very familiar with casso, gotti, massino, basciano, among others. I have his book and have am very well read up on his case.

remember casso was a perpetual liar... i saw those documentaries, i remember al darco saying sammy gravano was scared of them but they could never get gotti cause the media was around around him

They did the smart thing. Why would you attempt to whack a guy when the media is always around him. Also you answered my question sammy was scared of them so that means gotti was scared because sammy was a hitman while gotti was not


obcourse it was smart im not saying it wasnt,

actually sammy on his account only murdered one person (prob bullshit), while gotti had murdered at least one in his career and had the bergin crew who were hitters as well (helped dispose of the Three Bonanno Capos, and killed Willie Boy johnson, etc), gravano carried out orders for hits on behalf of gotti who was the boss


Edited by Dapper_Don (04/29/12 04:07 AM)
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645375 - 04/29/12 04:07 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
i am aware of decicco and that plan but its debateable if they even would have killed john if frankie was whacked, remember that info comes from gravano who hated gotti at that point when he wrote that in his book, wiretaps of other gambino soldiers like frankie loc talk about how the soldiers on the street love gotti and that he was always worried they couldnt earn/werent earning enough

I've read pretty much every mob book out ther and study mob culture in college. Sure the younger soldiers liked him but many capos didnt like the fact that they had to meet at the Ravenite every week while the FBI was watching. Daniel Marino,Joseph Corraro,and nicky Corozzo were a few of these capos that didnt like that. the guys was a horrible boss and one of the dumber ones i've seen

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#645376 - 04/29/12 04:10 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster

funny you bring up casso, cause i am very familiar with casso, gotti, massino, basciano, among others. I have his book and have am very well read up on his case.

remember casso was a perpetual liar... i saw those documentaries, i remember al darco saying sammy gravano was scared of them but they could never get gotti cause the media was around around him

They did the smart thing. Why would you attempt to whack a guy when the media is always around him. Also you answered my question sammy was scared of them so that means gotti was scared because sammy was a hitman while gotti was not


obcourse it was smart im not saying it wasnt,

actually sammy on his account only murdered one person (prob bullshit), while gotti had murdered at least one in his career and had the bergin crew who were hitters as well (helped dispose of the Three Bonanno Capos, and killed Willie Boy johnson, etc), gravano carried out orders for hits on behalf of gotti who was the boss


I dont think gotti personally killed anyone. in 1973 he and angelo helped murder mcbratney but Ralph Galione was the shooter. Yes the bergin crew helped bury teh bodies of the 3 bonanno capos in 81. Gravano may have only killed one but he was present and many of these. also willie boy johnson was killed by tommy pitera in 88


Edited by JCrusher (04/29/12 04:10 AM)

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#645378 - 04/29/12 04:13 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
i am aware of decicco and that plan but its debateable if they even would have killed john if frankie was whacked, remember that info comes from gravano who hated gotti at that point when he wrote that in his book, wiretaps of other gambino soldiers like frankie loc talk about how the soldiers on the street love gotti and that he was always worried they couldnt earn/werent earning enough

I've read pretty much every mob book out ther and study mob culture in college. Sure the younger soldiers liked him but many capos didnt like the fact that they had to meet at the Ravenite every week while the FBI was watching. Daniel Marino,Joseph Corraro,and nicky Corozzo were a few of these capos that didnt like that. the guys was a horrible boss and one of the dumber ones i've seen



i also studied the mob on my spare time in college and have read countless books/articles

he was a bad boss agreed, but dumb? thats not true. recent colombo turncoats have openly said that gotti instigated the colombo war by supporting orena to wage war against carmine so orena can win and gotti can have the colombos and the bonannos in his pocket at the commission, that is pretty smart on gottis part.

also massino said that he was told by the genovese that gotti planned to whack him out and put vitale in charge of the family to cement any possible dissent massino had.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



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#645380 - 04/29/12 04:16 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
i am aware of decicco and that plan but its debateable if they even would have killed john if frankie was whacked, remember that info comes from gravano who hated gotti at that point when he wrote that in his book, wiretaps of other gambino soldiers like frankie loc talk about how the soldiers on the street love gotti and that he was always worried they couldnt earn/werent earning enough

I've read pretty much every mob book out ther and study mob culture in college. Sure the younger soldiers liked him but many capos didnt like the fact that they had to meet at the Ravenite every week while the FBI was watching. Daniel Marino,Joseph Corraro,and nicky Corozzo were a few of these capos that didnt like that. the guys was a horrible boss and one of the dumber ones i've seen



i also studied the mob on my spare time in college and have read countless books/articles

he was a bad boss agreed, but dumb? thats not true. recent colombo turncoats have openly said that gotti instigated the colombo war by supporting orena to wage war against carmine so orena can win and gotti can have the colombos and the bonannos in his pocket at the commission, that is pretty smart on gottis part.

also massino said that he was told by the genovese that gotti planned to whack him out and put vitale in charge of the family to cement any possible dissent massino had.

You misunderstood me. I wasnt talking retarded dumb I meant the fact taht he wasn't careful where he talked and stuff like that. also my favorite quote by Joe Massino is "John put this thing of our back 100 years" that was funny and true


Edited by JCrusher (04/29/12 04:18 AM)

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#645382 - 04/29/12 04:25 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster

funny you bring up casso, cause i am very familiar with casso, gotti, massino, basciano, among others. I have his book and have am very well read up on his case.

remember casso was a perpetual liar... i saw those documentaries, i remember al darco saying sammy gravano was scared of them but they could never get gotti cause the media was around around him

They did the smart thing. Why would you attempt to whack a guy when the media is always around him. Also you answered my question sammy was scared of them so that means gotti was scared because sammy was a hitman while gotti was not


obcourse it was smart im not saying it wasnt,

actually sammy on his account only murdered one person (prob bullshit), while gotti had murdered at least one in his career and had the bergin crew who were hitters as well (helped dispose of the Three Bonanno Capos, and killed Willie Boy johnson, etc), gravano carried out orders for hits on behalf of gotti who was the boss


I dont think gotti personally killed anyone. in 1973 he and angelo helped murder mcbratney but Ralph Galione was the shooter. Yes the bergin crew helped bury teh bodies of the 3 bonanno capos in 81. Gravano may have only killed one but he was present and many of these. also willie boy johnson was killed by tommy pitera in 88


yeah, killed by pitera as a favor from massino to gotti. with every old guy turning rat we find out stuff from the past like gotti's involvement in the borrelli killing, so who knows about johns past
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



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#645383 - 04/29/12 04:25 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
Gotti didnt retaliate against Casso because he didnt know it was Casso. Casso used a bomb so that Gotti would think it was the zips. A conversation happened after the bombing between Gotti and Sammy the Bull. Bull asked if he thought it was Chin and gotta said he thought it was "some renegade element"

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#645384 - 04/29/12 04:27 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
gotti was media hungry and that ultimately hurt him and the family which is true, but the FBI at that point was taking down everybody and the heat on the families was very high. All the wiretaps, surveillance, and increasingly better technology was going to take everybody down at some point regardless if gotti made it easier for the feds.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



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#645385 - 04/29/12 04:27 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Ivan]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
haha the one handed leprechan. is there anywhere we can listen to this?

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#645386 - 04/29/12 04:29 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
Gotti didnt retaliate against Casso because he didnt know it was Casso. Casso used a bomb so that Gotti would think it was the zips. A conversation happened after the bombing between Gotti and Sammy the Bull. Bull asked if he thought it was Chin and gotta said he thought it was "some renegade element"


casso was def a sly fox thats for sure
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



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#645388 - 04/29/12 04:40 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
I dont think Gotti and Sammy were scared of Vic and Gas. Just because Al D'arco (darco reminds me of nick caramandi for smoe reason)said Sammy was ducking them. Although casso was freakin nuts, so i can see why they would be.

I think that Gotti was not as awful as most people think.. Yes having everyone come to the Ravenite was stupid and he didnt no much about the construction rackets..but the governemtn had a hard on for Gotti ever since he beat those cases and because the media was obsessed with him (once your on time magazine as a gangster, your done). They were going to get him no matter what. I dont think he could have avoided being prosecuted.

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#645389 - 04/29/12 04:42 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
I dont think Gotti and Sammy were scared of Vic and Gas. Just because Al D'arco (darco reminds me of nick caramandi for smoe reason)said Sammy was ducking them. Although casso was freakin nuts, so i can see why they would be.

I think that Gotti was not as awful as most people think.. Yes having everyone come to the Ravenite was stupid and he didnt no much about the construction rackets..but the governemtn had a hard on for Gotti ever since he beat those cases and because the media was obsessed with him (once your on time magazine as a gangster, your done). They were going to get him no matter what. I dont think he could have avoided being prosecuted.

My only point that i originally made was that gotti feared certain people. Usually the people he feared were feared by everyone like demeo and casso.

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#645390 - 04/29/12 04:44 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
Hey Dapper,
that quote that says Gotti killed 10 people and demeo 38... do you know who any of them are besides mcbratney? It must have been around 1983 that Gene said that right.


Edited by FaticoWestIslip (04/29/12 04:45 AM)

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#645391 - 04/29/12 04:45 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
Hey Dapper,
that quote that says Gotti killed 10 people and demeo 38... do you know who any of them are besides mcbratney? It must have been around 1983 that Gene said that right.


Yep around 1983, and I dont know who the ten were.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645392 - 04/29/12 04:47 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
Hey Dapper,
that quote that says Gotti killed 10 people and demeo 38... do you know who any of them are besides mcbratney? It must have been around 1983 that Gene said that right.

Tommy desimone,joseph spione, tony plate,john favara. Although gotti didnt kill them personally they were all ordered. im not sure who else but i think that wiretap took place in 82 since demeo died on january 10 1983 and both gene and angelo were being investigated for trafficking


Edited by JCrusher (04/29/12 05:06 AM)

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#645397 - 04/29/12 06:50 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
MurderMachine Offline

Associate
Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 5
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Gambino's most relliable killers of the 70's and 80s in John and Carmine Carneglia. John was definately the main player between the two but was convicted along with Gene Gotti for drug trafficking and Carmine was the most efficient killer for Gotti.


Edited by MurderMachine (04/29/12 06:51 AM)

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#645398 - 04/29/12 07:05 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
phatmatress Offline

Underboss
Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 1171

Loc: pittsburgh pa
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster
then why do you post so much on mafia message boards? admit it...we all are a lil deep down...
_________________________
I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!

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#645400 - 04/29/12 07:13 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: phatmatress]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster
then why do you post so much on mafia message boards? admit it...we all are a lil deep down...


just interested in the lifestyle
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645410 - 04/29/12 02:14 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
phatmatress Offline

Underboss
Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 1171

Loc: pittsburgh pa
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster
then why do you post so much on mafia message boards? admit it...we all are a lil deep down...


just interested in the lifestyle
what sparks your interest so much then? your one to denounce gangsters but post about them 24/7
_________________________
I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!

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#645411 - 04/29/12 02:27 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: phatmatress]
HairyKnuckles Offline

Underboss
Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 2097

Loc: Secret location (WITSEC)
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster
then why do you post so much on mafia message boards? admit it...we all are a lil deep down...


just interested in the lifestyle
what sparks your interest so much then? your one to denounce gangsters but post about them 24/7


Having an interest in something, is not the same as being a fan of it.
_________________________
Smart dog?! Pfff...there are no smart dogs! I play chess with mine and the dog only beats me four times out of ten!

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#645413 - 04/29/12 04:16 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
FaticoWestIslip Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 36
jc,
Interesting.. to me Gotti wasnt really that great of a criminal. (and apparently a brutal gambler. haha)I remember he said "best I did was go on a few hijackings". And he was arrested for at least one of the hijackings..I dont think he killed anyone with his own hands. (do we know of anyone?) Although I do think he was a natural born leader of men.

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#645416 - 04/29/12 05:24 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Fatico you are absoluetly right about gotti's gambling. Gotti's gambling was so bad that it really damaged the bergin crews profits. This is the main reason why gene,angelo, and john carneglia had to resort to drug trafficing. One of my favorite lines from Angelo was him telling Gene about "his brother that his mother shit out" lol. Now i dont claim to know everything for sure but from what i have researched gotti wasnt a guy who would go our on hits. Mcbratney was the only one and he wasnt even the shooter.

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#645426 - 04/29/12 06:59 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: phatmatress]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
actually i am not a fan of any mobster
then why do you post so much on mafia message boards? admit it...we all are a lil deep down...


just interested in the lifestyle
what sparks your interest so much then? your one to denounce gangsters but post about them 24/7


24/7? i dont know about that.The whole "secret society" mantra, how the life has slowly decayed over the years due to lack of quality recruits, law enforcement pressure, and cooperators. And how the current crop of wiseguys manages to stay out of jail, how they operate, etc.


Edited by Dapper_Don (04/29/12 06:59 PM)
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645427 - 04/29/12 07:01 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
jc,
Interesting.. to me Gotti wasnt really that great of a criminal. (and apparently a brutal gambler. haha)I remember he said "best I did was go on a few hijackings". And he was arrested for at least one of the hijackings..I dont think he killed anyone with his own hands. (do we know of anyone?) Although I do think he was a natural born leader of men.


Your right about being a leader. Gotti was a big Machiavelli buff. He read the prince during his early year in the can and would always quote passages from it to other wiseguys.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645428 - 04/29/12 07:14 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
jc,
Interesting.. to me Gotti wasnt really that great of a criminal. (and apparently a brutal gambler. haha)I remember he said "best I did was go on a few hijackings". And he was arrested for at least one of the hijackings..I dont think he killed anyone with his own hands. (do we know of anyone?) Although I do think he was a natural born leader of men.


Your right about being a leader. Gotti was a big Machiavelli buff. He read the prince during his early year in the can and would always quote passages from it to other wiseguys.

Well Carlo was actually the big Machiavelli buff. Gotti did try to read Machiavelli but he wasn't exctly the smartest guy in the world lol. But there is a difference between having soldiers look up to you and being a good leader in my opinion. Sure people like gotti as a tough guy but im sure most of the higher ranking members didnt like the way he conducted buisness with the FBi always there


Edited by JCrusher (04/29/12 07:14 PM)

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#645429 - 04/29/12 07:22 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: FaticoWestIslip
jc,
Interesting.. to me Gotti wasnt really that great of a criminal. (and apparently a brutal gambler. haha)I remember he said "best I did was go on a few hijackings". And he was arrested for at least one of the hijackings..I dont think he killed anyone with his own hands. (do we know of anyone?) Although I do think he was a natural born leader of men.


Your right about being a leader. Gotti was a big Machiavelli buff. He read the prince during his early year in the can and would always quote passages from it to other wiseguys.

Well Carlo was actually the big Machiavelli buff. Gotti did try to read Machiavelli but he wasn't exctly the smartest guy in the world lol. But there is a difference between having soldiers look up to you and being a good leader in my opinion. Sure people like gotti as a tough guy but im sure most of the higher ranking members didnt like the way he conducted buisness with the FBi always there


"A student of Niccolo Machiavelli, the Italian philosopher, Gambino had a habit of quoting from ďThe Prince.Ē Later while in prison, Gotti would also study the writings of Machiavelli, to the point where he could quote whole parables. Gotti strutted proudly in front of the Bergin crew as he relayed orders from the revered family boss."

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/mob_bosses/gotti/up_4.html

"When the Gambino capos met again before the end of the year, John Gotti was formally elected boss of the family. Fist co-conspirator Frank DeCicco made his nomination.

As a student of Machiavelli, Gotti had a good sense of who in his organization to put into positions of power. DeCicco became his under boss and he made Angelo head of the Bergin crew. Sammy officially took over all of Toddo's operations. Sammy was a very powerful man, but he preferred to remain a shadowy background figure, while Gotti and DeCicco visibly ran the show. Joseph Armone, the elderly capo who had become a member of the Fist, was given new sources of income. And consigliere Joe Gallo remained in his position under Gotti as he had under Paul Castellano.

Most importantly, Gotti understood the value of public relations. Unlike his predecessor and some of the other family bosses, Gotti realized that favorable publicity would enhance his standing with other Cosa Nostra families, with the members of his own family, and, very importantly, with potential jurors and witnesses. By charming the media, he was able to create a public image of himself as a legendary, almost heroic rogue. Yes, he was a gangster. That could not be denied. But to the public he was a popular and likeable guy -- the way Al Capone was revered on the streets of Chicago in 1930. Gotti was very media astute, a fact which confounded his enemies in law enforcement."

http://www.dark-horse.co.uk/john/johnpower.htm


None of these guys including Gambino were smart guys in the traditional sense (college, etc) but they held their own in their world.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



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#645434 - 04/29/12 07:29 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
[quote=FaticoWestIslip]jc,
Interesting.. to me Gotti wasnt really that great of a criminal. (and apparently a brutal gambler. haha)I remember he said "best I did was go on a few hijackings". And he was arrested for at least one of the hijackings..I dont think he killed anyone with his own hands. (do we know of anyone?) Although I do think he was a natural born leader of men.


Your right about being a leader. Gotti was a big Machiavelli buff. He read the prince during his early year in the can and would always quote passages from it to other wiseguys.

Well Carlo was actually the big Machiavelli buff. Gotti did try to read Machiavelli but he wasn't exctly the smartest guy in the world lol. But there is a difference between having soldiers look up to you and being a good leader in my opinion. Sure people like gotti as a tough guy but im sure most of the higher ranking members didnt like the way he conducted buisness with the FBi always there


"A student of Niccolo Machiavelli, the Italian philosopher, Gambino had a habit of quoting from ďThe Prince.Ē Later while in prison, Gotti would also study the writings of Machiavelli, to the point where he could quote whole parables. Gotti strutted proudly in front of the Bergin crew as he relayed orders from the revered family boss."

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/mob_bosses/gotti/up_4.html

"When the Gambino capos met again before the end of the year, John Gotti was formally elected boss of the family. Fist co-conspirator Frank DeCicco made his nomination.

As a student of Machiavelli, Gotti had a good sense of who in his organization to put into positions of power. DeCicco became his under boss and he made Angelo head of the Bergin crew. Sammy officially took over all of Toddo's operations. Sammy was a very powerful man, but he preferred to remain a shadowy background figure, while Gotti and DeCicco visibly ran the show. Joseph Armone, the elderly capo who had become a member of the Fist, was given new sources of income. And consigliere Joe Gallo remained in his position under Gotti as he had under Paul Castellano.

Most importantly, Gotti understood the value of public relations. Unlike his predecessor and some of the other family bosses, Gotti realized that favorable publicity would enhance his standing with other Cosa Nostra families, with the members of his own family, and, very importantly, with potential jurors and witnesses. By charming the media, he was able to create a public image of himself as a legendary, almost heroic rogue. Yes, he was a gangster. That could not be denied. But to the public he was a popular and likeable guy -- the way Al Capone was revered on the streets of Chicago in 1930. Gotti was very media astute, a fact which confounded his enemies in law enforcement."

http://www.dark-horse.co.uk/john/johnpower.htm


None of these guys including Gambino were smart guys in the traditional sense (college, etc) but they held their own in their world.

I read about it in Gotti rise and fall. im just going by what i've heard. i mean Joe coffey who was apart of the task force called him a moron and he was the one listening to the wiretaps. also Agent gabriel said that when gotti took over he didnt kknow who controlled what industreis or even soldiers in other guys crews


Edited by JCrusher (04/29/12 07:31 PM)

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#645436 - 04/29/12 07:34 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645437 - 04/29/12 07:40 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.

Im just trying to be honest I mean i dont have any biased toward other mobsters i think they are all bad people. But I cant call someone brilliant or the best mob boss when that clearly wasn't the case


Edited by JCrusher (04/29/12 07:49 PM)

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#645438 - 04/29/12 07:50 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.

I doubt they were jealous. also its easy to beat the court case when you pay 60,000 to throw the case and have a officer in your back pocket that was supplying information. In fact both those people are both in jail.


Edited by JCrusher (04/29/12 07:51 PM)

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#645439 - 04/29/12 07:52 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.

Im just trying to be honest I mean i dont have any biased toward other mobsters i think they are all bad people. But I cant call someone brilliant or the best mob boss when that clearly wasn't the case


i never said gotti was brilliant or the best, im just saying gotti wasnt as dumb as many people make him out to be
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645440 - 04/29/12 07:54 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.

I doubt they were jealous. also its easy to beat the court case when you pay 60,000 to throw the case and have a officer in your back pocket that was supplying information. In fact both those people are both in jail.


regardless if they paid the juror or not that doesnt matter, gotti beat the case with the guy he beat up fair and square (the I forgotti case, thats cause he was scared of gotti cause he was always in the media as a big bad mob boss), in the other case they still had to get to the jury to even offer the bribe and guys nowadays would jump at the chance to bribe a juror. fact

those agents made it their number one priority and spent $50 million in fbi resources over the years to get gotti, idk about you but that sounds like being obsessed about one guy who kept beating the govt at their own game and sticking it to them, obcourse this made it a bigger priority for them to take him down and set an example for other guys not to carry themselves like gotti, but they wanted to take him down at all costs


Edited by Dapper_Don (04/29/12 07:57 PM)
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645441 - 04/29/12 07:55 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor


Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 18310

Loc: Throggs Neck
Jesus. Just agree to disagree already.
_________________________
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.

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#645442 - 04/29/12 07:56 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.

Im just trying to be honest I mean i dont have any biased toward other mobsters i think they are all bad people. But I cant call someone brilliant or the best mob boss when that clearly wasn't the case


i never said gotti was brilliant or the best, im just saying gotti wasnt as dumb as many people make him out to be

He wasn't retarded but he didnt have the brains to runs white collar crimes which were more lucarative.

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#645443 - 04/29/12 07:57 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: pizzaboy]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Jesus. Just agree to disagree already.

Ya i was ready to move on a while ago

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#645444 - 04/29/12 07:58 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Jesus. Just agree to disagree already.

Ya i was ready to move on a while ago


agreed
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645446 - 04/29/12 07:59 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.

Im just trying to be honest I mean i dont have any biased toward other mobsters i think they are all bad people. But I cant call someone brilliant or the best mob boss when that clearly wasn't the case


i never said gotti was brilliant or the best, im just saying gotti wasnt as dumb as many people make him out to be

He wasn't retarded but he didnt have the brains to runs white collar crimes which were more lucarative.


obcourse not, less than half of the family did.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645447 - 04/29/12 08:00 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
[quote=Dapper_Don]^^^obcourse he wouldnt know what guys controlled what industries, the gambinos had over 200 soldiers and john was a capo of one crew. remember many of the agents were jealous of gotti cause he kept sticking it to them by beating them in court, etc.

Im just trying to be honest I mean i dont have any biased toward other mobsters i think they are all bad people. But I cant call someone brilliant or the best mob boss when that clearly wasn't the case


i never said gotti was brilliant or the best, im just saying gotti wasnt as dumb as many people make him out to be

He wasn't retarded but he didnt have the brains to runs white collar crimes which were more lucarative.


obcourse not, less than half of the family did.

[/quote Dapper lets move on from this now

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#645448 - 04/29/12 08:01 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
^yea

i got to go do some studying for finals.
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645449 - 04/29/12 08:03 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: Dapper_Don]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1054
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^yea

i got to go do some studying for finals.

Good luck. And hey agree or disagree i think you are very informative about the mob no hard feelings

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#645451 - 04/29/12 08:03 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: JCrusher]
Dapper_Don Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 4086

Loc: Bronx, New York
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^yea

i got to go do some studying for finals.

Good luck. And hey agree or disagree i think you are very informative about the mob no hard feelings


likewise
_________________________
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, donít they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the waterís fine.



Top
#645778 - 05/02/12 05:51 AM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
Skinny_Vinny Offline

Capo
Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 422

Loc: Tampa and Queens
as funny as it sounds(killing over a Frank Purdue insult) Castellano probably didn't want the guy to marry his daughter and used anything as an excuse to get rid of him.

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#745811 - 10/26/13 01:21 PM Re: Gotti, Demeo, Massino, Sonny Black - on one hit [Re: FaticoWestIslip]
TheChickenMan Offline

Made Member
Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 166
i dont know if the media thing is really an excuse, they had joe colombo whacked in basically a suicide kamikaze mission
_________________________
"You tell this punk, I, Me, John Gotti will sever your mother f*cking head off!"

"its Cosa Nostra til i die, whether that be an hour from now, tonight, or in 100 years when im in jail, la Cosa Nostra!" -Gotti

"Boy this kid's a real Joe Batters!"- Al Capone

"Well they, blew up the Chicken Man in Philly last night, they blew up his house too... on the boardwalk they're gettin ready for a hell of a fight, gonna see what those racket boys can do" -Bruce Springsteen "Atlantic City"


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