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italian-american assimilation #612465
08/26/11 06:01 PM
08/26/11 06:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
yigido Offline OP
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yigido  Offline OP
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is it true that most italian-american men are getting assimilated in to the american culture. i read somewhere the mafia had a hard time finding recruits because most of the italians didnt think of themselves italian but american. and that those other italian-americans dont have the same culture and traditions like the older guys. is this true and if so does it have big impact on the influence of the mafia.

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #612483
08/26/11 10:56 PM
08/26/11 10:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline
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That is true, it happens to all nationalities in time. We can expect the same here in the Netherlands for the Turkish minority, somehow the italians and the turks have the same ties to the old country. The Italians are loosing it though.


Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #612486
08/26/11 11:27 PM
08/26/11 11:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 368
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tt120 Offline
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Assimilation happened a long long long time ago. Even in the Mob's hey-day which people argue about when that exactly was, but even in that pre-appalachin time it wasn't some honorable lets-do-it-for-Italy kind of thing. It was about money and survival. Always has been always will be.

ties to the old country have a lot to do with the house your brought up in. if u still have family there (a lot dont), things like that. Tons of italian americans have zero ties to Italy/Sicily, not just this generation but previous generations as well.

If anything the 'decline in ranks' has more to do with gentrification and suburbanization. Even though the tri-state and basically the whole north east has a ton of italian americans, there are no real enclaves anymore as their used to be. rightfully so though. everywhere is accessible due to better public transport and cars. you dont need to spend your life on the 6th floor of a 250 year old decrepit walk-up on Elizabeth street if you have the money to go out to Long Island and have a yard and all that.

Theres always gonna be italian americans, and there's always gonna be kids wanting to make a quick buck who just can't live legit. the mob will always be around in New York.

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #612504
08/27/11 03:12 AM
08/27/11 03:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
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There was a time when there could be substantial benefits for an Italian-American guy to join one of the families. Especially considering upward mobility in mainstream society was more restricted for one reason or another. Obviously that's no longer the case. Now, a smart Italian-American guy is going to want to make it big in the legitimate world rather than enter a life of crime. Especially a life that has been in decline for decades. So it's not only a case of attrition of quantity but also of quality. Less capable, less intelligent guys wanting to be in the mob.

Personally, I think the disappearing Italian enclaves factor has been overblown. The one upside, for the mob, of Italians becoming more ingrained in general society is they weren't confined to their own neighborhoods and only the rackets within those boundaries. They were able to expand which, among other reasons, is why they were able to bridge the upper and underworlds.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: tt120] #612516
08/27/11 07:06 AM
08/27/11 07:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
yigido Offline OP
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yigido  Offline OP
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reason i am also asking this i dont remember if it was the times or nypost but one of them said the wiseguys were really a bunch of dumbasses who couldnt even point out italy on the world map. and because those newer ones are losing their traditions like the vow of silence and their believe in family ties. there where actually guys who ratted their own fathers.

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #612517
08/27/11 07:11 AM
08/27/11 07:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,783
Queenstown, New Zealand
NickyScarfo Offline
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Yeah I think it was also Michael Franzese who said mob guys today (young guys) couldn't point to Italy on a map. Maybe he has a point.

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #612519
08/27/11 07:23 AM
08/27/11 07:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
yigido Offline OP
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yigido  Offline OP
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and then you got those guido's like jersey shore who are just a shame for italian-americans. and a lot of italian-americans probably also dont know italian anymore.

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: NickyScarfo] #789508
07/16/14 06:15 AM
07/16/14 06:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 62
Parisi Offline
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Originally Posted By: NickyScarfo
Yeah I think it was also Michael Franzese who said mob guys today (young guys) couldn't point to Italy on a map. Maybe he has a point.
It was former FBI agent Joe Pistone who told the New York Post: “They [the younger generation] don't have the wherewithal to cultivate the politicians and judges. Most of these guys couldn't point out Italy on a map.”

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792195
07/27/14 09:55 PM
07/27/14 09:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,950
NJ/CA
Alfanosgirl Offline
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Women and Bootleggers

The Italian WOMEN are the ones that decided to NOT ALLOW their children to speak Italian outside the home so they can be considered real Americans and speak English.

I know that my own grandma and her cousin were spat at for walking on the sidewalk instead of the gutter. And my grandma's cousin gave that man such a beating with her pocketbook. This is what we Italians had to go through in the early 1900's. This is why there were wiseguys to PROTECT the Italian people from all the discrimination. We couldn't trust the police the government why would they help our people. During ww2 the Italian ppl were considered enemies of the U.S. They had curfews allowed to go only to and from work. Of course there's more I can add but that's enough for now.

Bootlegging made us all rich and we were able to dig ourselves out of the gutter.
Every Italian had a bootlegger in the family:)

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792196
07/27/14 09:58 PM
07/27/14 09:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,950
NJ/CA
Alfanosgirl Offline
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Oops maybe I shouldn't use the word rich but we had money

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792206
07/27/14 11:09 PM
07/27/14 11:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 196
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TheAustralian Offline
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Made Member
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Italian chicks are semi-hot/10

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792233
07/28/14 07:17 AM
07/28/14 07:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
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Belmont Offline
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Originally Posted By: yigido
and then you got those guido's like jersey shore who are just a shame for italian-americans. and a lot of italian-americans probably also dont know italian anymore.



First off, only 2 or 3 were actually italian on that show. One was half puerto rican.
They were a total disgrace and made a mockery of italian americans. Just like the soprano's , with their kids cursing at the dinner table. That ever happened in my house , my father would of chopped my head off and still made everyone finish everything my mother made.

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: Belmont] #792234
07/28/14 07:29 AM
07/28/14 07:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
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Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Belmont
That ever happened in my house , my father would of chopped my head off and still made everyone finish everything my mother made.

Amen to that, kid. Amen to that smile.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792235
07/28/14 07:29 AM
07/28/14 07:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
B
Beanshooter Offline
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Kokomo
Snooki was raised Italian she was born in Chile as was Lilo Brancato who is Colombian.

Not sure if I read this here or somewher else but isn't Michael Franzese adopted too?

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: Beanshooter] #792238
07/28/14 07:44 AM
07/28/14 07:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
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Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Snooki was raised Italian she was born in Chile as was Lilo Brancato who is Colombian.

I hear ya, Beanie. But if we're looking to prove that environment trumps heredity, those two may very well be the worst two examples known to man lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: pizzaboy] #792242
07/28/14 08:23 AM
07/28/14 08:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 74
Shamm11375 Offline
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What a waste of talent by that kid....he obviously had a bright future ahead of him after starring in a movie as a kid with Chaz and DeNiro !

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792578
07/29/14 11:36 AM
07/29/14 11:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
B
Beanshooter Offline
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Beanshooter  Offline
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Kokomo
PB, To your knowledge, is Michael Franzese adopted?

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: Beanshooter] #792590
07/29/14 11:57 AM
07/29/14 11:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
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Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
PB, To your knowledge, is Michael Franzese adopted?

He's legally adopted. But he claims that he found out years later that Sonny was his real father anyway. Barring a DNA test, which we'll never get, who the Hell knows?


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792592
07/29/14 12:01 PM
07/29/14 12:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
B
Beanshooter Offline
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Kokomo
Don't use "Who the Hell knows" with him. he rather you use God only knows!

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: Beanshooter] #792595
07/29/14 12:11 PM
07/29/14 12:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

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Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Don't use "Who the Hell knows" with him. he rather you use God only knows!

Very clever! grin

And in all fairness to Brother Michael, I've heard that he takes his Born Again Christianity VERY seriously. So good for him smile.

I don't begrudge people who REALLY turn their lives around. It's not like he's Sammy the Bull getting his kids involved in drug dealing after getting a get-out-of-jail-free card wink.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792597
07/29/14 12:14 PM
07/29/14 12:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
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Beanshooter Offline
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Kokomo
Franzese has a Movie coming out that he filmed in Israel. It's called, God The Father.

Here is his newly redone website:

http://michaelfranzese.com/

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792600
07/29/14 12:17 PM
07/29/14 12:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
B
Beanshooter Offline
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Beanshooter  Offline
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Underboss
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Kokomo

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: Alfanosgirl] #792629
07/29/14 02:16 PM
07/29/14 02:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 92
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DoctorTwink Offline
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DoctorTwink  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfanosgirl
Women and Bootleggers

The Italian WOMEN are the ones that decided to NOT ALLOW their children to speak Italian outside the home so they can be considered real Americans and speak English.

I know that my own grandma and her cousin were spat at for walking on the sidewalk instead of the gutter. And my grandma's cousin gave that man such a beating with her pocketbook. This is what we Italians had to go through in the early 1900's. This is why there were wiseguys to PROTECT the Italian people from all the discrimination. We couldn't trust the police the government why would they help our people. During ww2 the Italian ppl were considered enemies of the U.S. They had curfews allowed to go only to and from work. Of course there's more I can add but that's enough for now.

Bootlegging made us all rich and we were able to dig ourselves out of the gutter.
Every Italian had a bootlegger in the family:)



Do you actually believe this though?

The majority of Italians and Italian-Americans were not involved in organized crime or the mob.

Yes some were; but this does not mean that the majority of people were since they were not.

Would making wine at home be considered "bootlegging"? I mean it's not buying it in a store. I have Italian relatives who did this, and they still do it but they do not sell it they just give it away to other family members and friends, or share a small glass of it with people during a dinner.

Also a lot of old Italian immigrants I have met and their kids who are first generation Italian-Americans did not like the mob and said how the idea that they were somehow protected by the mob was a myth. They said that the Italian mob would extort money from local Italian run mom and pop run businesses.

Last edited by DoctorTwink; 07/29/14 02:17 PM.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792640
07/29/14 02:32 PM
07/29/14 02:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 950
H
HuronSocialAthletic Offline
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^^^this is absolutely true.

"We're trying to protect & help our socially ravaged communities! Now here, fork over 20% of your measly monthly earnings"

It's never been about honour or anything like that. These people are thugs.

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792641
07/29/14 02:33 PM
07/29/14 02:33 PM
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Posts: 950
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HuronSocialAthletic Offline
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Underboss
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.

Last edited by HuronSocialAthletic; 07/29/14 03:16 PM.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: DoctorTwink] #792663
07/29/14 04:09 PM
07/29/14 04:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,950
NJ/CA
Alfanosgirl Offline
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AG


Tony D

Last edited by Alfanosgirl; 07/29/14 04:23 PM.
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: Mukremin] #792675
07/29/14 04:59 PM
07/29/14 04:59 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
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Footreads Offline
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Footreads  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mukremin
That is true, it happens to all nationalities in time. We can expect the same here in the Netherlands for the Turkish minority, somehow the italians and the turks have the same ties to the old country. The Italians are loosing it though.


Curious about something Turks are in the minority you said. That also means they are probably the poorest in your country is that right?

How do you heat your house? Do the Turks heat their places with dirty coal right? What do you use?

The poor is where the real crime is its like that in every country.

As long as their poor that is where Illegal money can be made.


only the unloved hate
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: DoctorTwink] #792676
07/29/14 05:01 PM
07/29/14 05:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,950
NJ/CA
Alfanosgirl Offline
Underboss
Alfanosgirl  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,950
NJ/CA
Originally Posted By: DoctorTwink
Originally Posted By: Alfanosgirl
Women and Bootleggers

The Italian WOMEN are the ones that decided to NOT ALLOW their children to speak Italian outside the home so they can be considered real Americans and speak English.

I know that my own grandma and her cousin were spat at for walking on the sidewalk instead of the gutter. And my grandma's cousin gave that man such a beating with her pocketbook. This is what we Italians had to go through in the early 1900's. This is why there were wiseguys to PROTECT the Italian people from all the discrimination. We couldn't trust the police the government why would they help our people. During ww2 the Italian ppl were considered enemies of the U.S. They had curfews allowed to go only to and from work. Of course there's more I can add but that's enough for now.

Bootlegging made us all rich and we were able to dig ourselves out of the gutter.
Every Italian had a bootlegger in the family:)



Do you actually believe this though?

The majority of Italians and Italian-Americans were not involved in organized crime or the mob.

Yes some were; but this does not mean that the majority of people were since they were not.

Would making wine at home be considered "bootlegging"? I mean it's not buying it in a store. I have Italian relatives who did this, and they still do it but they do not sell it they just give it away to other family members and friends, or share a small glass of it with people during a dinner.

Also a lot of old Italian immigrants I have met and their kids who are first generation Italian-Americans did not like the mob and said how the idea that they were somehow protected by the mob was a myth. They said that the Italian mob would extort money from local Italian run mom and pop run businesses.



The majority of Italians were NOT criminals.

Nope I do not believe making wine at home is bootlegging. It's just a tradition. Everybody did it.

The truth of the matter is that Italian families were fairly large in number. Most but not all had a relative or two or three who were willing to get into the bootlegging business during that era. They are already making their own wine at home so why not make booze and turn it into a profit. There's a LOT of money in it. Most Italians at that time weren't educated in their own native language and had no job skills. So it's a quick way to make easy cash for the WHOLE family. Remember this is a time when you live in the same house or right next door to ur relatives. So now nobody is going hungry. Now the family has money more money than they've ever seen in their life. So what do the responsible ones do like my family? They use that money to start up businesses, to buy property and that's exactly what they did.
I was told that this was very common but it's a hush hush subject cuz people don't want to say that their families started out as bootleggers.
We can argue all day about this but I know what I was told and this is what was happening in the Italian families who got themselves out of the gutter in the 1920's.

As for the protection from the gangsters I was told that the Italians came over and settled with the same people from their villages. So we all started out together as just Italians seeking a better life. You have to stay in your own neighborhood. The police are not going to help your kind. You are AFRAID. So now all of a sudden you see Tony D who decides to become a street hood n you've known him from Italy since you were a kid so you trust this guy. He says he can protect you and you believe him so you pay this friend who is now a hood. Protect you from what? Sometimes things did happen like a thug comes into YOUR STORE in YOUR neighborhood trying to rob you. Who do you go to Yup, Tony D... And he will sure as hell get a hold of that thug and give him a beating, get the money back for you and of course take his cut. And that's just how it works.


So go ahead u can say whatcha gotta say to me but in the end
All I gotta say to u guy is this ---Unless u know what I know U DONT KNOW NUTTIN

Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: yigido] #792677
07/29/14 05:03 PM
07/29/14 05:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 576
NY
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blacksheep Offline
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blacksheep  Offline
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NY
Footreads, Holland is actually pretty good with supplying the basics. Even the poor are ok out there. The highest crime I noticed out there was in moraccan neighborhoods. But of course some turks do their dirt too


Make that coffee to go
Re: italian-american assimilation [Re: blacksheep] #792678
07/29/14 05:07 PM
07/29/14 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: blacksheep
Footreads, Holland is actually pretty good with supplying the basics. Even the poor are ok out there. The highest crime I noticed out there was in moraccan neighborhoods. But of course some turks do dirt too

There's a big Muslim population out there?


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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