GangsterBB.NET
Who's Online
7 registered (Louiebynochi, alexandarns, cookcounty, 4 invisible), 107 Guests and 61 Spiders online.
Shout Box

Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Gina's Artroom
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
>Gangster TV Listings

>MobPosters.com
>Puzo Amazon Store
>Ebay: Godfather
>Ebay: Scarface

>Live Chatroom
Wanna help out?


More from MobPosters.com



Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Today on TV
August 1, 10:15 pm
Time (ET) Movie Chan
Unable to connect to DB
Newest Members
vch, Unheilig, phillyguy39, Not Turn bulll, shortyfam
8521 Registered Users
Top Posters
Irishman12 54603
DE NIRO 42813
J Geoff 30299
The Italian Stallionette 24807
SC 21870
Mignon 18738
Don Cardi 18185
pizzaboy 18140
Sicilian Babe 17193
Turnbull 16639
plawrence 15058
Beth E 14900
Forum Stats
8521 Members
20 Forums
30007 Topics
768639 Posts

Max Online: 663 @ 05/27/12 05:37 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#600012 - 04/14/11 10:56 PM Gangland article on Massino
Beanshooter Offline

Underboss
Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 593
is Week In Gang Land April 14, 2011
By Jerry Capeci
Massino: As Mafia Boss I Had The Power Of Life & Death


Siskel and Ebert gave Donnie Brasco “two thumbs up.” But when a prosecutor asked Joseph Massino for his take on the classic gangster movie, he grimaced and held his hand in front of his face. Then he wiggled his fingers back and forth in that shaky motion that most closely translates as “Mezza-mezza.” Or perhaps, “Eh.”

“Objection!” thundered the defense attorney. “Sustained,” said the judge, ending Joe Massino’s career as movie reviewer.

Jurors were instructed to ignore this part of Massino’s historic appearance as the first official New York Mafia boss to testify for the government – in this case, against a fellow former Bonanno crime family big, onetime acting boss Vincent (Vinny Gorgeous) Basciano.

Thankfully, Gang Land is not required to adhere to the trial judge’s admonitions. For that matter, it’s hard to fathom how jurors will get it out of their heads since Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis was forced to repeat the shaky hand motion when he ruled it off-limits. At any rate, let it be officially recorded here that the first movie review by an ex-mob chieftain delivered from the witness stand was “No Stars!”

Not that the 68-year-old Massino lacked for insight about the inner-workings of the Bonanno family of that era. In fact, he is presumably better-equipped than anyone to pass judgment on the accuracy of the big-screen portrayal of FBI agent Joe Pistone’s undercover work against the crime family from 1976-to-1981.

In any event, once his movie review was over, the burly ex-Mafia boss proceeded to deliver several new revelations, each of which partially explained why he might think the movie version of the Brasco affair was no great shakes.

First, he debunked a long-held theory that a pair of mob murders of that era stemmed from anger at mobsters who were hoodwinked by the FBI agent. Under questioning by assistant U.S. attorney Taryn Merkl, Massino said that he was “made” on June 14, 1977 – a year after Pistone began his undercover role – and learned about the agent’s work soon after the FBI disclosed it in the summer of 1981 to Dominick (Sonny Black) Napolitano, the wiseguy who wanted to sponsor Pistone for induction.

Contrary to what prosecutors alleged at Massino’s 2004 trial – and what was implied in the 1997 movie – Sonny Black’s murder in August of 1981, a month after the feds pulled the plug on Pistone’s sting operation, was not payback for Napolitano’s role in vouching for Donnie Brasco, the jewel thief that Pistone pretended to be for five years.

Massino said that Sonny Black had told him that three FBI agents had alerted Napolitano that the “knock-around guy” he had known for several years as “Donnie Brasco” was really an FBI agent. Napolitano said the agents warned him that “if anything happens to [Brasco], we’re going to have a lot of trouble,” said Massino, adding that Napolitano’s sudden problems were unrelated to the Brasco fiasco.

“Sonny Black threatened to make a move on the family,” said Massino, recalling that he took part in the slaying and was part of a three-capo panel that was running the crime family for then-imprisoned boss Philip (Rusty) Rastelli that authorized the rubout. (Sonny Black looks into the camera as he and "Donnie Brasco" catch some rays at a Florida pool in 1980.)

Massino also dismissed reports that the demise of Bonanno wiseguy Anthony Mirra, whose February 1982 murder was long linked to his own Donnie Brasco dealings, was related to Pistone’s undercover work. Instead, Massino testified, that slaying stemmed from a belief that Mirra, a longtime drug dealer had become a secret “cooperator for the DEA.”

Massino, who is expected to face stiff cross-examination today about his assertion that Basciano ordered the 2004 murder of mob associate Randolph Pizzolo, stressed during his direct testimony that he was an all-powerful crime boss who had the power of life and death over wiseguys years before he took over the crime family in 1991.

He also explained the rationale behind another mob rubout: Disrespect. While he was on the lam in 1984 – ducking trial for the murders of three capos in 1981 – Massino said he learned from Rastelli’s brother and his own brother-in-law Salvatore Vitale, who was then a capo, that Rastelli was planning to whack Cesare Bonventre, a member of the family’s Sicilian faction who had extorted about $600,000 from a drug dealer who was close to Rastelli.

When Bonventre was called on the carpet about it by Rastelli, (right) not only did he deny the allegation, “he got insulted” by the inquiry and “got up and walked away,’ without so much as a polite good bye to his already steaming Mafia boss.

“You can’t do that with bosses,” said Massino. “That’s why he died.”

Rastelli also wanted to whack Bonventre’s long time buddy and partner in the crime and the insult, Baldo Amato – the duo played key roles in the 1979 rubout of wannabe Bonanno boss Carmine (Lilo) Galante – but Massino thought that was a bad idea, he testified.

“I saved him,” he said. “I sent word to the old man. I said, ‘Listen, he’s listening to his captain. We can’t just keep going on killing and killing and killing. He’s following orders just like I follow orders.’ He said, ‘You’re right,’ and he gave him a pass.”

Yesterday, prosecutors played tape recordings of jailhouse talks that Massino had with Vinny Gorgeous in January of 2005 – which Gang Land first disclosed that September – in which Basciano admits ordering a close associate to whack Pizzolo.

In his opening remarks to the jury, defense lawyer George Goltzer conceded that Basciano admitted ordering Pizzolo’s slaying while he was behind bars but insisted that his client was lying to his all powerful boss in order to save the life of Dominick Cicale, a close associate who had whacked Pizzolo on his own.

Goltzer conceded that Basciano was a powerful mobster who had committed numerous crimes, but insisted that he had nothing to do with ordering the December 1, 2004 murder of Pizzolo. His purpose in telling his mob boss he ordered the slaying was solely to protect Cicale from retaliation from Massino for having acted without prior approval.

The defense lawyer implored jurors to listen to the tapes “as many times as you want” during deliberations, assuring them that when all the evidence is in, “the only fair inference is that Vincent Basciano is saying what he has to say to save Dominick Cicale.”

It’s hard to determine what the jury will ultimately decide, but one irony of the defense lawyer’s words is that if Vinny Gorgeous was indeed trying to save Cicale from Masssino, his old pal hasn’t expressed much gratitude. He has already testified against him twice, and is slated to follow Massino to the stand.

A second irony is that no matter what the outcome of the trial, Vinny Gorgeous, who is serving life without parole for one mob murder, will leave prison in a body bag some time in the future.


Vinny Still Looks Gorgeous
Say what you will about Vinny Gorgeous, the perfectly coiffed salt and pepper gray-haired wiseguy doesn’t look any worse for wear after two racketeering trials and six-plus years behind bars. As one wag in the courtroom said the other day, “He looks great.”

(It also doesn’t hurt the defendant’s image that Joe Massino, his ex-boss and the chief witness against him, looks like a portly schlub whose idea of dressing up is a two-tone windbreaker, gray pants, and bright white sneakers.)

Gang Land doesn’t know how Basciano does it, but from a highly credible source we can report that he has somehow overcome Bureau of Prisons rules banning hair gel for inmates by concocting his own – apparently without violating any of the myriad of BOP rules by which inmates reside and despite spending most of his time in a Segregated Housing Unit.

This information comes exclusively from mob prince Chris Colombo, who spent a couple of days next to Basciano two years ago when he was busted for violating the terms of his release. Before being shipped out to his assigned prison, Colombo was placed in the SHU as a possible “communications threat” because he had taken part in a 2004 HBO special titled House Arrest.

“First thing he says to me is ‘Bo, how do I look?’ I say, ‘Great, fantastic,’” said Colombo, recalling that he then became a victim described in the old adage that no good deed goes unpunished.

“So I say, ‘How do I look?’ He says, ‘You look like Lou Costello.’ I says, ‘You mutt, I wish I would have asked you how I look before you asked me how you looked. I would have told you something different,’” laughed Colombo, who said he doesn’t see any resemblance between him and the short and stocky half of the legendary Abbott and Costello comedy team.

These days, says the 49-year-old Colombo: “I am pursuing an honest living and the American Dream.”

Convicted Mob Associate: My Lawyer Stuck Me Like A Pig
Did a prominent Gang Land defense attorney stick it to his own client?

That’s what mob associate John Matera is claiming about his former lawyer, Jeffrey Lichtman, in court papers that appeal his conviction and 20-year prison sentence for a 1998 murder.

Matera cites Lichtman’s less-than-admiring speech to the judge at his 2004 sentencing for taking part in the rubout of FBI informer Frank Hydell.

“You can put a dress on a pig, Judge, and it’s still a pig,” Lichtman told the judge, according to a transcript.

Lichtman, who gained fame by winning a deadlocked jury for John (Junior) Gotti, says he played square with Matera, as he does for all his clients. But Matera’s new lawyer, Seth Ginsberg, says in court papers that Lichtman worked a good deal harder to win a lesser sentence for another client he represented at the same time who was also charged with taking part in the Hydell slaying.

That client was Gambino associate Thomas Dono, who wound up with a better deal, and a 15 year sentence. Lichtman used remarkably different language to describe him to the judge.

At Dono’s sentencing last year, Ginsberg wrote, Lichtman told the judge that Dono was the only one of his many clients to express any concern about a personal crisis in Lichtman’s own life after his twin boys were born premature in August, 2004 and nearly died.

“When my kids were born ten weeks prematurely five and a half years ago there was only one client of mine, and I represent a lot of people judge, and a lot of people that should have cared more, there was one person that called me constantly,” Lichtman told Judge Colleen McMahon.

“I’ve gotten to know his family,” Lichtman continued. “I’ve met his children. I’ve gotten to know him very well. I feel certain that when he gets out of prison he will be a much better person (than) the way you are seeing him today. He is a father that cares about his kids. This is somebody I have spoken to about his children.”

Since the personal crisis occurred while Lichtman was negotiating Matera’s plea deal, the speech suggests that the lawyer was upset with those who didn’t show adequate sympathy, says Ginsberg who writes that Lichtman had an “actual conflict of interest” regarding Matera at the time.

Matera, wrote Ginsberg, also “has children he undoubtedly loves, but Lichtman made no mention of that fact.” The omission, suggests Ginsberg, was because the lawyer resented the idea that Matera (right) did not “demonstrate appropriate concern for Lichtman” during the lawyer’s “crisis with his children.”

Ginsberg has asked the court to set aside Matera’s guilty plea and allow him to go to trial on the murder charge.

Lichtman, who hosts a a two-hour Saturday morning talk show at 10 AM on 970 AM The Apple, told Gang Land he handled Matera’s case straight up: “As John well knows, I’ve always wished him the best and still do. I got him a great deal in a tough case, and he deeply appreciated it at the time … I represented John zealously and single-mindedly, as I do all my clients.”

Top
#600018 - 04/15/11 12:01 AM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
VinnyGorgeous Offline
BANNED

Underboss
Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 1635
"You look like Lou Costello" lol lol lol

_________________________
"What is given, can be taken away. Everyone lies. Everyone dies." - Casey Anthony, in a poem, July 7, 2008

Top
#600027 - 04/15/11 03:18 AM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
phatmatress Offline

Underboss
Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 1171

Loc: pittsburgh pa
why all the refernces to bo? does it have to do with bonnanno? i always wondered because i always thought that they wanted to be the massino family or atleast big joey did anyways
_________________________
I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!

Top
#600029 - 04/15/11 04:33 AM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: phatmatress]
VinnyGorgeous Offline
BANNED

Underboss
Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 1635
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
why all the refernces to bo? does it have to do with bonnanno? i always wondered because i always thought that they wanted to be the massino family or atleast big joey did anyways


A lot of these guys say 'bo' when they're addressing someone. It has nothing to do with the Bonannos, but I know what you're referring to. I remember reading the Gotti transcripts and Gravano used to call Gotti 'bo' all the time. It's just something they say.
_________________________
"What is given, can be taken away. Everyone lies. Everyone dies." - Casey Anthony, in a poem, July 7, 2008

Top
#600032 - 04/15/11 05:24 AM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
phatmatress Offline

Underboss
Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 1171

Loc: pittsburgh pa
ahhh for some reason rednecks do that with that name bubba and alot of black folk from jersey/philly call everyone a john or everything a john "look at this john walking down that street" or "look at those new johns on his feet" white guys in jail call everyone bull....thanks clearin that up mr gorgeous
_________________________
I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!

Top
#600034 - 04/15/11 06:07 AM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
VinnyGorgeous Offline
BANNED

Underboss
Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 1635
I would like to know the story behind that Bo thing though. You know find out how it all started. Knowing how gay they all are, I have my theories and my guess is it has to do with the word boner.

There is a reason why they love Deliverance more than The Godfather.
_________________________
"What is given, can be taken away. Everyone lies. Everyone dies." - Casey Anthony, in a poem, July 7, 2008

Top
#600036 - 04/15/11 10:11 AM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: VinnyGorgeous]
Beanshooter Offline

Underboss
Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 593
It's a Pleasant avenue guy saying. It's their version of "bro". Since pleasant ave is in Harlem.

Top
#600049 - 04/15/11 04:49 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: phatmatress]
GerryLang Offline

Underboss
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 551
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
ahhh for some reason rednecks do that with that name bubba and alot of black folk from jersey/philly call everyone a john or everything a john "look at this john walking down that street" or "look at those new johns on his feet" white guys in jail call everyone bull....thanks clearin that up mr gorgeous


"Bo" is said here in Philadelphia among the Italian American community too, but not nearly as much as when I was growing, I have no idea where it came from though.

Top
#600103 - 04/16/11 06:12 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
EVL Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 42

Loc: New York City
Guys - you know there is historic information in this story -- I didn't see anyone note it. I certainly am in a post I am writing, that Sonny Black and Mirra were NOT killed over Pistone.


First, he debunked a long-held theory that a pair of mob murders of that era stemmed from anger at mobsters who were hoodwinked by the FBI agent. Under questioning by assistant U.S. attorney Taryn Merkl, Massino said that he was “made” on June 14, 1977 – a year after Pistone began his undercover role – and learned about the agent’s work soon after the FBI disclosed it in the summer of 1981 to Dominick (Sonny Black) Napolitano, the wiseguy who wanted to sponsor Pistone for induction.

Contrary to what prosecutors alleged at Massino’s 2004 trial – and what was implied in the 1997 movie – Sonny Black’s murder in August of 1981, a month after the feds pulled the plug on Pistone’s sting operation, was not payback for Napolitano’s role in vouching for Donnie Brasco, the jewel thief that Pistone pretended to be for five years.

Massino said that Sonny Black had told him that three FBI agents had alerted Napolitano that the “knock-around guy” he had known for several years as “Donnie Brasco” was really an FBI agent. Napolitano said the agents warned him that “if anything happens to [Brasco], we’re going to have a lot of trouble,” said Massino, adding that Napolitano’s sudden problems were unrelated to the Brasco fiasco.

“Sonny Black threatened to make a move on the family,” said Massino, recalling that he took part in the slaying and was part of a three-capo panel that was running the crime family for then-imprisoned boss Philip (Rusty) Rastelli that authorized the rubout. (Sonny Black looks into the camera as he and "Donnie Brasco" catch some rays at a Florida pool in 1980.)

Massino also dismissed reports that the demise of Bonanno wiseguy Anthony Mirra, whose February 1982 murder was long linked to his own Donnie Brasco dealings, was related to Pistone’s undercover work. Instead, Massino testified, that slaying stemmed from a belief that Mirra, a longtime drug dealer had become a secret “cooperator for the DEA
.”
_________________________
http://cosanostranews.com/

Top
#600105 - 04/16/11 07:43 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: EVL]
Beanshooter Offline

Underboss
Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 593
Exactly EVL! That's exactly what I said in the "Jack Falcone is a blow hard Thread". JVANLEY writes: "You say Pistone ONLY took down lefty huh? Well my friend, you are TERRIBLY wrong there. Joe Pistone did more than just prosecute guys, he fucking wiped them off the face of the earth. GUYS GOT FUCKING WHACKED because of Joe Pistone, the equivilant of the "Death Penalty" to the Feds, something they have not been able to do. He single handedly changed the landscape of the mafia. He was responsible for RULES BEING PUT IN PLACE BY THE COMISSION. He had an entire fucking family EXILED from the Commission!!"

Top
#600106 - 04/16/11 08:20 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
GaryH Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 688

Loc: Northumberland England
I think Massino's bending the truth
It just seems awfully fishy that Sonny Black got clipped just after Joe Pistone "came out"!
Tony Mirra took a little longer to find.

Top
#600136 - 04/17/11 03:36 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: GaryH]
EVL Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 42

Loc: New York City
I agree Gary, I hate to promote my website, but I explore the holes in Massino's story....such as (please excuse the length of this quote from my post):

Napolitano met his end because he had been preparing to take over the Bonanno family, Massino said in court. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to us at Cosa Nostra News.

“Sonny Black threatened to make a move on the family,” said Massino, who had taken part in the murder while a member of a three-capo panel that was running the crime family for then-imprisoned boss Philip "Rusty" Rastelli, who in fact had authorized the rubout. Rastelli is dead. No further details are offered in the article to support Massino's ascertains about Napolitano.

There had been a rivalry between Sonny Black and Massino -- according to Pistone's book and other sources -- and Sonny Black also reportedly had just taken part in the slayings of three capos who themselves were planning to make a move to take over the Bonanno family. Sonny Black's crew reportedly handled clean up, while the Gambino capo John Gotti, as a favor, sent his crew to dispose of the bodies. {They didn't do a good job: "Sonny Red" Indelicato "popped up" out of the ground within days of the bloody, violent slayings, though Phil Giaccone and Dominick Trinchera remained under ground until Massino turned informant and revealed where their bodies were decades later.)

So right here, we know that Sonny Black was aware of what happened to overly ambitious Bonannos with big mouths. Had he read Machiavelli, he certainly would have known that, when you shoot a prince, you kill him. And you don't shoot your mouth off first. (We're paraphrasing here.) Sonny Black certainly was smart enough to take over the family, which is probably the real season Joe "The Fat Rat" Massino wanted him taken out.

And last, but not least, Sonny Black supposedly was tighter with Rastelli than was Massino; in fact, Sonny may have even been serving as acting boss after the three-capo slaying. Maybe Massino and the "ruling panel" didn't like this.

And why then were Sonny Black's hands chopped off? What was the symbolism in that mutilation if it were not to signify he shook hands with a Fed?

The truth is, like most mob stories, including those that have reached legendary status, we'll never know the truth about why Sonny Black was taken out, though Massino's testimony, on face value, doesn't make a lot of sense when put in context.


Massino also dismissed reports that Bonanno drug dealer Anthony Mirra was killed for the same reason -- bringing Brasco in -- but instead was a target because some in the family believed he was a DEA cooperator.

We wonder ... Mirra, for one, was a known psychopath, a loudmouth quick to pull out a switchblade -- and they don't make good CIs. Ask Gaspipe Casso, who tried to turn but is now serving li
fe.


Edited by EVL (04/17/11 03:42 PM)
_________________________
http://cosanostranews.com/

Top
#600138 - 04/17/11 04:23 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
tt120 Offline

Made Member
Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 235
pretty interesting. part of me can see Massino lying about why these guys were killed just to discredit Pistone, but another part of me thinks at this point in the game...why would he lie?

Tony Salerno said on tape the Bonannos were kicked off the early 80s commission for lack of quality guys and blatant drug dealing ("junk men" he called them)... never mentioned a thing about Pistone. Maybe Massino is telling the truth here?

Top
#600141 - 04/17/11 06:11 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: tt120]
GerryLang Offline

Underboss
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 551
I tend to believe Massino more then the other rats, becasue he played a very important part in these hits. Didn't Sonny Black have his hand(s)cut off after he was killed? It was believed it was done because those were the hands that shook Brasco's hands and brought him into the family, or it could have just been done for identification reasons. I find the explanation for the Mirra hit more plausible, wasn't he making himself hard to find around the time he was killed? Maybe he knew the news he was working with the DEA leaked out or was paranoid about it leaking out, because he really didn't have much to do with Brasco after the initial introductions. As tt120 said, the Bonanno's were heavily involved in junk during that time. The reason Cesare Bonaventure was murdered is interesting too, he probably thought he could do what he wanted with his Sicilian connections backing him up. Whatever the truth, this news makes me happy, because it puts a dent in Pistone's gigantic ego.

They discussed Massino's financial deal with the government the last day of testimony, he had 7 million in cash hidden in his attic he gave to the government, and 300 to 400 gold bars he had in his basement, that is a huge amount of gold! The price of gold has tripled in the few years since he gave it up, right now it would be worth a huge amount, it would have been a hell of an investment for him. I wonder if his wife kept a few dozen bars for herself?

Top
#600146 - 04/17/11 07:06 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: tt120]
EVL Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 42

Loc: New York City
I don't know if it is lying. Remember the Bonannos were considered drug-dealing mutts after the Brasco deal - they were kicked off the commission (all the families dealt, but the Bonannos tended to get caught more often I believe, giving them the reputation of the "drug dealing" family.)

Massino wanted back in, and Gotti went to bat for him and I think succeeded. But Massino may have forever held a biased view of the Commission for having kicked his family off of it. Remember, nothing is on paper -- it's all in the minds of the members. Opinion. Maybe Massino belittled it in his own mind, thought it was finished because he wasn't part of it. These guys are human, too and susceptible to insecurity, anger, ego, etc., just like the rest of us. I will put up my post about the Commission next...

Also, in my post a former mobster I contacted offered this explanation for what Massino said about Sonny Black and Mirra:

"Massino's word will be the gospel, true or not.

"Anyone who is free and can dispute it wouldn't risk their freedom to do it. Why change it? Maybe he's right. If he's not, it's to give the Feds something they think they just uncovered of value. Does it matter? The guys are dead for many years."
_________________________
http://cosanostranews.com/

Top
#600147 - 04/17/11 07:12 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: EVL]
EVL Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 42

Loc: New York City
Here is my post about Massino's comments on the Commission:

Now Massino has testified that the infamous Mafia "commission" hasn't had a meeting in 25 years, according to AP. "There ain't no commission," he added.

Since the formation of the modern mob back in the 1930s following the end of the Castellammarese War, the leaders of New York City's five crime families -- plus a couple of other families -- held occasional summits to lay down rules and settle disputes. This is something Luciano supposedly put in place back at the very beginning.

But these Commission meetings stopped happening after Gambino boss Paul Castellano was assassinated outside a Manhattan restaurant in 1985, and the heads of the other families went to prison for racketeering, Massino said.

This does not jibe with published reports about accounts of Commission meetings in which John Gotti sat in for the Gambino family; ironically, one of Gotti's goals at one such meeting was to get the Bonanno family's seat back for his good buddy, Joe Massino (the Bonannos had lost their place on the "board" following the Donnie Brasco scandal, as well as the family's reputation for focusing on drug dealing, it has been reported).

Gotti also supposedly held his own against the Chin one or two times at these meetings, which were indeed held following Castellano's death because Gotti was there, according to books by Jerry Capeci and others.

Gotti used these meetings -- there were at least a couple -- to advance his alliances and own interests, a true Machiavellian. In addition to getting the Bonannos back in, and thus making them his pawns, he reportedly attempted to convince the Chin to start making new members -- an obvious ploy to earn the respect of any men made by Chin because they would believe they got their stripes thanks to Gotti. But the Chin got the better of the Gambino Don -- whom Gigante tried to assassinate with the help of Lucchese confederates -- by telling Gotti, in so many words, "Thanks for your interest, but I'll handle my own family."

A trio, at least, of Gambino made men were killed in retaliation for Paul, but Gotti never knew these murders -- of Gotti underboss Frank DeCicco, Gotti bodyguard/chauffeur Bobby Boriello and Gotti friend/fierce hit man Ed Lino (who had blood ties to the Bonannos) -- were connected and could be traced back to the Chin.

Though he said, "There ain't no commission," Massino acknowledged that top leaders of the crime rings did and do get together sometimes. So why was Gotti trying to get Joe his seat back, if there were no Commission? Perhaps Joe looked down on the Commission, since he wasn't allowed to be on it, at least for a time. Is he is getting his revenge by belittling it now?

Maybe Massino is lying; maybe he's telling it like he sees it. We'll never know. This entire issue of a "Commission" could be a matter of simple semantics.
_________________________
http://cosanostranews.com/

Top
#600148 - 04/17/11 07:32 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
GaryH Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 688

Loc: Northumberland England
If Tony Mirra was about to become a co-operating government witness then I'm the king of Siam!!!!!!
I firmly believe Mirra and Napalitano were both whacked because of Donnie Brasco.
It was Mirra who first introduced him to the Bonanno's and Napolitano was Brasco's Capo.
Mirra and Lefty had lengthy sit-downs over who "owned" Brasco - everyone knew this.
Brasco being revealed as an FBI man signed their death warrants.

No way would Napolitano have moved on the family without seeking Gambino and Genovese approval.
Look at the Philidelphia family and the wheelings and dealings and double crossings that went on over their leadership just prior to 1981.
I do however believe Massino over Bonventre's death.
That guy was a cocky arrogant bastard who was way above his station - I can believe the story about him Disrespecting Rusty.
The only one of the 3 that I have any little sympathy for is Napolitano.
The world was well rid of Bonventre and Mirra

Top
#600149 - 04/17/11 07:43 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: GaryH]
EVL Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 42

Loc: New York City
I agree, Gary. Sonny Black "died like a man." Had the tables been turned somehow, and it was Massino whacked in that basement decades back, I doubt "Bonanno Boss Sonny Black" would ever have turned. He willingly walked into a buzz saw -- his own death. No way he would've turned.
_________________________
http://cosanostranews.com/

Top
#600150 - 04/17/11 07:47 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: GaryH]
Beanshooter Offline

Underboss
Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 593
Why would Massino be put on the witness stand by the FBI and the United States Attorney's office and say that if it was not the truth? He was probably debriefed to the max and polygraphed too. I think he is being truthful because otherwise the government would have objected to what he was saying. There is no different between Brasco being taken around or a wired informant. They are not going to whack somebody because somebody fooled them. It's on them for their stupid mistake. Massino avoided Brasco. Sonny and Lefty made money on him. That's the Mafia way. Massino said Brasco was no good and avoided him. Sonny Black was taken out as Massino said because he was jockeying for position of power. Brasco was never in the inner circle nor aware of what was going on. he was told what they wanted him to know. He didn't know about the 3 capos getting whacked until afterward when everyone started asking questions about their whereabouts.

Top
#600166 - 04/18/11 12:38 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
GaryH Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 688

Loc: Northumberland England
Massino despised Brasco because Sonny Black wanted him (Brasco) made before Sal Vitale (Massino's brother in-law)

Top
#600169 - 04/18/11 02:13 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: GaryH]
Beanshooter Offline

Underboss
Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 593
There were other associates in the Bonannos who wre trying to get straightened out besides Vitale and Brasco.Massino despised Brasco because he didn't trust him and thought he was no good.

Top
#600180 - 04/18/11 07:14 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
GerryLang Offline

Underboss
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 551
Massino seemed to always pick the right side during his rise in the mafia early on, and he was right by staying away from Brasco and thinking he was no good. His problem was as he got older he got extremly greedy and placed guys who were more business men then mafia guys in positions of power like Frank Coppa and Richard Cantarella.

Top
#600188 - 04/19/11 12:36 AM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
VinnyGorgeous Offline
BANNED

Underboss
Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 1635
Well there's definitely a lot of things being put to rest here. Massino is probably telling the truth about the Brasco thing, but I think we can all agree that Brasco didn't actually help Mirra or Sonny Black. Not in the long run at least.

What I find interesting is that this fuck gets to keep five houses. FIVE HOUSES!!! Not even my uncle Albert owns five houses. He says he forfeited $7 million, but I'm willing to bet he had at least $14 million total. Then they're all saying he's gained a lot of weight. What the fuck is going on.
_________________________
"What is given, can be taken away. Everyone lies. Everyone dies." - Casey Anthony, in a poem, July 7, 2008

Top
#600208 - 04/19/11 01:08 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
tt120 Offline

Made Member
Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 235
i think he should have been allowed to keep them. I think that was a big part of his 'deal' after he turned anyway. 3 of the 5 houses had family members living in them (his house, his daughter's house and his mom's house) and the other 2 are rental properties for his wife to have some income coming in. Sounds better than it is, running rental propertys is a massive pain in the balls.

If the government really wants to break you on assets...fine...but to basically uproot a whole family and make a housewife and an elderly lady homeless is crossing the line. And even though one can argue that everything he was involved with was illegitimate, can the government prove that the houses were bought with money from illegitimate enterprises?

going after the houses was a bully move by the govt - but it worked for them I guess.

Top
#600217 - 04/19/11 02:55 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: GerryLang]
GaryH Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 688

Loc: Northumberland England
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
His problem was as he got older he got extremly greedy and placed guys who were more business men then mafia guys in positions of power like Frank Coppa and Richard Cantarella


I can agree about Frank Coppa who was the mastermind behind the mafia ripping off wall street but Richard Cantrella had plenty of gangster in him didnt he?
Or did he get his younger cousin Joey Moak to do the dirty work?


Getting back to Massino, apparently in the aftermath of the Galante hit, Lefty was given the option of going under Sonny Black or Massino.
As we know he chose Black.
I wonder if he had chosen Massino if Big Joey would have allowed Pistone to get anywhere near as involved as he did?
I suspect not!

Top
#600236 - 04/19/11 05:51 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
tt120 Offline

Made Member
Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 235
I guess it makes sense. After the murder of the 3 capos, Rastelli was still the sitting boss (in jail) while Massino and Napolitano equally ran things for him on the street? I could definitely see Massino wanting take Napolitano out for sole control, and the Brasco thing was probably the best excuse to save face in the eyes of the rest of the family and other families. From what I read about Tony Mirra the guy seemed like one massive liability and Brasco could have been used an excuse to take him out as well. Disgusting that his own cousin had to do him in though...


Edited by tt120 (04/19/11 05:53 PM)

Top
#600248 - 04/19/11 08:33 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: GaryH]
GerryLang Offline

Underboss
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 551
Originally Posted By: GaryH
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
His problem was as he got older he got extremly greedy and placed guys who were more business men then mafia guys in positions of power like Frank Coppa and Richard Cantarella


I can agree about Frank Coppa who was the mastermind behind the mafia ripping off wall street but Richard Cantrella had plenty of gangster in him didnt he?
Or did he get his younger cousin Joey Moak to do the dirty work?


Getting back to Massino, apparently in the aftermath of the Galante hit, Lefty was given the option of going under Sonny Black or Massino.
As we know he chose Black.
I wonder if he had chosen Massino if Big Joey would have allowed Pistone to get anywhere near as involved as he did?
I suspect not!


I think Cantarella was a ruthless gangster at one time, but over the years lost the stomach for it, as he became very wealthy. Coppa seemed to have gone soft for a much longer time, again because of the huge amounts of money he made both legitimately and illegal. I didn't know that someone tried to kill him with a car bomb in the 70's. How crazy is it that Massino didn't meet Basciano until years after he was made, I wonder how common it is for a boss not to personally know a made guy in his family.

Top
#600253 - 04/19/11 08:59 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: GerryLang]
VinnyGorgeous Offline
BANNED

Underboss
Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 1635
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
How crazy is it that Massino didn't meet Basciano until years after he was made, I wonder how common it is for a boss not to personally know a made guy in his family.


It used to be very common and it probably still is up to a point. A lot of the old time bosses would only deal with important soldiers.
_________________________
"What is given, can be taken away. Everyone lies. Everyone dies." - Casey Anthony, in a poem, July 7, 2008

Top
#600255 - 04/19/11 09:13 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
GaryH Offline

Underboss
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 688

Loc: Northumberland England
From what I read about Tony Mirra the guy seemed like one massive liability and Brasco could have been used an excuse to take him out as well. Disgusting that his own cousin had to do him in though...

Welcome to the mob.
Your friend or blood relation can be your best buddy today and tomorrow be the guy who rats you out or whacks you.
Tony Mirra's problem was that he insulted everyone and consquently nobody liked him - Pistone said other mobsters pretended to be his friend cos they feared him.

I dont think Paul Castellano, Carmine Persico or Vinnie the Chin would have tolerated him in their families.
Perhaps thats why the Chin gave permission for the feared wildman Gerard Pappa to be rubbed out?

Top
#645986 - 05/03/12 07:29 PM Re: Gangland article on Massino [Re: Beanshooter]
Lenin_and_McCarthy Offline

Capo
Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 259
I wasn't going to bump until I was sure I could use it, but right now I've got Joey's Wikipedia article cleaned up as a Good Article nominee (two tiers below Featured/front page), and I was wondering if someone with a subscription could post a URL so I could use this as a source.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull