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Max Online: 663 @ 05/27/12 05:37 PM
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#596056 - 03/02/11 05:26 PM The Corleone chart at the senate hearings
Sonny_Black Offline

Underboss
Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 3027
Somebody on this board stated that the Corleone family crime chart at the senate hearings was pure speculation by the FBI.

But wasn't the information about the structure and ranks provided by Frank Pentangeli? I think Pentangeli most definitely had enough knowledge as he ran the family in New York.

Btw, the chart consists of only about 30 members which does seem to be very little for the most powerful family in the country. My own imagination is that this was just Michael Corleone's faction in Nevada.



Ofcourse it was only made for movie purposes...
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#596076 - 03/02/11 07:33 PM Re: The Corleone chart at the senate hearings [Re: Sonny_Black]
olivant Offline


Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 12334

Loc: Texas
That was me SB. Again, there's nothing to indicate in the slightest that Fredo was the family's underboss and we Board members have certainly concluded that Fredo was as capable as being an underboss as he was of giving birth.

Was Frankie the source of the FBI's info? Well, possibly. But, as you point out (and about which I have opined endlessly on this Board) how does the most power ful Mafia family in the country with 1,000 soldiers get along with just a couple of capos? If the chart omly illustrates the Nevada faction, why is Frankie part of it? Yes, it is a movie.
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#596087 - 03/02/11 08:34 PM Re: The Corleone chart at the senate hearings [Re: olivant]
Sonny_Black Offline

Underboss
Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 3027
Originally Posted By: olivant
That was me SB.


Yes, I forgot. smile

Quote:
Again, there's nothing to indicate in the slightest that Fredo was the family's underboss and we Board members have certainly concluded that Fredo was as capable as being an underboss as he was of giving birth.


This wasn't explictely the reason for making this thread though as I'm not really disagreeing with you on this. With not really I mean that I do think the ranks are pretty accurate, although Fredo's role as 'underboss' could have been no more than of symbolic value for the same reasons you mentioned.

I think Michael gave Fredo purposedly the position of underboss to make him feel more important, but everybody knew he had no real power.

Quote:
Was Frankie the source of the FBI's info? Well, possibly. But, as you point out (and about which I have opined endlessly on this Board) how does the most power ful Mafia family in the country with 1,000 soldiers get along with just a couple of capos?


As you're refering to Clemenza's statement in the novel, I imagine this was meant to be the Corleone's entire criminal network, including associates.

Quote:
If the chart omly illustrates the Nevada faction, why is Frankie part of it? Yes, it is a movie.


You're right about this. I thought about this myself and I think (just my imagination) that Frank obviously had to include himself on the chart. But I think he only "ratted" on the men who were personally led by Michael in Nevada.

For me that's the only decent explanation (besides it's ofcourse just a movie).
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#596097 - 03/02/11 09:19 PM Re: The Corleone chart at the senate hearings [Re: olivant]
JCrusher Offline

Underboss
Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1048
Originally Posted By: olivant
That was me SB. Again, there's nothing to indicate in the slightest that Fredo was the family's underboss and we Board members have certainly concluded that Fredo was as capable as being an underboss as he was of giving birth.

Was Frankie the source of the FBI's info? Well, possibly. But, as you point out (and about which I have opined endlessly on this Board) how does the most power ful Mafia family in the country with 1,000 soldiers get along with just a couple of capos? If the chart omly illustrates the Nevada faction, why is Frankie part of it? Yes, it is a movie.


Vito had only two capos Tessio and Clemenza. both of those men controlled a ton of buttons so it was possible. From the 1970's to the present there were more capos because there were more rackets. Also remember Pantangeli had his own family in New york that was formely part of the Corleone family. Mike had Al neri and Racco who were both dangerous men. Also we saw glimpses of some of the soldiers and they looked like they were quite capable. Plus Mike was in vegas which was different than being in New York. Fredo was also the underboss in name only. So he didn't have the same control as other underbosses do. Mike gave Fredo the title of underboss as more of encouragement than anything else

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#596104 - 03/02/11 11:48 PM Re: The Corleone chart at the senate hearings [Re: Sonny_Black]
Hagens_Heroes Offline

Wiseguy
Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 10
Maybe they were just going on whatever information they could actually confirm?

Then again, Fredo as an underboss is definitely an assumption. If they had any real knowledge of the Corleone family top levels, they probably would have left Fredo off almost entirely.

If they were trying to go back to the old NY regime, I'm sure each of those men had men working for them as well.

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#596111 - 03/03/11 12:37 AM Re: The Corleone chart at the senate hearings [Re: Hagens_Heroes]
Turnbull Offline



Registered: 10/14/01
Posts: 16632

Loc: AZ
The Corleone Family chart, and the Senate hearing scenes, were FFC's perfect clone of the Valachi hearings, right down to the design of the charts and the hearing room. Go here for the original:

http://www.gangrule.com/galleries/family-charts

The inaccuracies of the Corleone chart also were a reflection of the charts in the Valachi hearings. The FBI hadn't paid much attention to organized crime until Valachi made them sit up and take notice. Then they scrambled to put together their charts to make it seem as if they knew all about the Mob. Valachi was the source of much of the info. But writers have pointed out that Valachi was too low in the organization to be definitive. So, if Cicci was the movie committee's Valachi, he might have known some of the higher-ups, but not everyone. Hence relatively small size of the Corleone family as depicted in that chart.

On the other hand, Michael would not have needed a large organization in Nevada, especially since he was trying to maintain a "legitimate" front. Most of his muscle would be in New York. And, since it'd been only a few years since Michael arranged to wipe out the other NY Dons, perhaps Clemenza, and then Frankie, didn't need as large an organization as before.
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