hey guys just wanted to get your opinoins on phil leotardo. I feel that at first phil was one of the best characters on the show. He seemedto play a great old school mob guy who takes no shit and was a little bitter bout doing some serious time. He also looked down at the soprano crew which i believe is prob true with alot of the major players in the NY mob and the NJ family. My problem is in the later episodes he was like a totally diffrent guy. He totally flipped his lid. Wanting revenge for his brother i can understand but wanting to take out a entre family heirarchy ??? And Y?? cause he didnt care for tony ?? That wud never happen. In my opinoin he went from one of the best characters to one of the worst characters

Phil was a great character who was an old school mob guy. Did 20 years and didn't talk or complain. I didn't think his beef with Tony was absurd like so many people do because a mafia rule was broken. His brother who was a made guy was killed by tony's cousin who wasn't even made. All Tony had to do was hand him over and it would have caused him less of a headache. Of course that didn't matter since they made Tony beat Phil which is absurd for a New jersey family to win a war with a New York Family. I liked the Sopranos but the only thing I didn't like was that they made the jersey Family just as strong as the New York Family. anybody who knows anything about mob history knows that that is bullshit. i knows the Sopranos is about the Jersey mafia so they have to make them look unbeatable but it is much different in real life. the Sopranos is based on the Decalvacante who are know by many Ny mobster even Gotti as the minor leagues.

So many times as I watched the Sopranos I thought to myself "David Chase is the best least knowledgeable man alive". I mean in so many areas the Sopranos was almost perfect and in so many so flawed.

ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about the Mafia knows that anyone in LCN that operated or lived in New Jersey was a level below the guys on the big side of the bridge.

Even guys that were in the five families that were in the NJ factions got treated poorly.

There were a few episodes where they called the demao (soprano family) what they would be called in real life:

Glorified Crew
Farmers
Sheep herders
Cattle backs

Jvanley, I think that the things that you're complaining about can be explained. The Demao crime family was probably looked down upon by the New York families, however, the story within the sopranos is told by a family operating in new jersey. Obviouslu we aren't going to see them spoken down to because Tony and his crew were valuable to the five families because they made them money.

Good Topic. The only thing unrealistic about the Sopranos is that they make the jersey mafia on the same level as New York, which is not accurate. The reason why they are called a glorified crew is because they are a smaller family and don't have much power except in tv land

I never felt that at all. I think it was pretty clear throughout the series that New Jersey didn't want to mess with New York if avoidable. The only reason NJ "won" is because Butchy agreed to a sit down because he felt his boss Phil Leotardo was being unreasonable, and then he gave the OK to whack Phil.
And I still feel that Tony was hit in the final episode and it was on New York's orders. With that in mind, along with Sil in a coma and Bobby dead, I don't know if NJ "won" anything in the end.

It seems that NJ and NY were getting along pretty good until Johnny Sack moved to Jersey and told Tony that he had no intentions of sticking his beak in when it came to NJ business. Tony was aprehensive from the start. I too believe that Tony got whacked for taking out a NY boss...with or without Butch and Albie's "approval" at that warehouse sit down.

Fair Point. i guess part of me just wnats justice for Tony which means either he is dead or goes to jail. I still think they made the Jersey mafia way too powerful than it really is. I do a lot of reasearch on the mob and thats why it was bugging me. But you are right by the end the Soprano Family is pretty much dead

I did some thinking on this and this is the bottom line: It is fictional TV. Was it VERY LOOSELY based on the Decavalcantes? yes. However, some of the guys in the soprano/demeo family were based on real life wiseguys in the 5 families.

They say Chrissy was supposed to be based off Nicky scarfo JR. Vito Spatafore is based off the Gay Vito in Roy Demeos crew.

again,it is fiction. IF you want purely factual television on the Mafia then watch the Bio channels "Mobsters". If you want an entertaining fictional show that leaves the mind to wonder "gee these things really could happen" then watch the sopranos.

I was guilty of this myself. We all need to start separating Fiction from Reality.

We all grew to love Tony and his crews, we would have all HATED it to see them be completely disrespected and got their balls broken by the NY Mafia like in real life. How could we have ever grown to like the show so much if Tony, pauly, sil and Chrissy constantly got their asses handed to them, cut out of schemes and killed. The Decavalcantes were known as the mafias "farm team". Hell even the outfit, the Philly Mob and even the Partricia familes had more respect than the Decavalcantes.

We grew to love these characters, we want to see bravado, huge balls and nobody fucks with me or I will kill you characters. We would have all not liked the show as much if it was portrayed the way life really was.

out

I think you misunderstood me. I know it's fiction and speaking of the show Mobsters thats a great show. I'm not saying they had to change the entire outlook of the show. However, things like killing Phil should have been done by his own family. They didn't have to make them be pussies but at the same time when you are a smll jersey up against the strongest New York family you do your best not to fuck with them. Whether it's the whole blundetto thing or the Ginny Sack thing. I like the Sopranos a lot but they could have handles the jersey/ new york war a bit differently

The Decavalcantes may have been considered "mutts" and "farmers" by the New York families, but they were also known as very sharp businessmen and good earners who were actively involved in the more white collar crimes such as securities and exchange fraud, in addition to the more blue collar rackets such as construction and waste management.

They were also known for being somewhat amicable and reasonable compared to some of their counterparts, as well as the one family who could sort of unite all of the various factions amongst the New York families and Chicago outfits. Basically, they were smart enough to form alliances with guys from other families to avoid getting harassed all the time. That's why we see Tony and the crew as somewhat empathetic and engaging characters.

I think Phil's part is written pretty well, actually, asssuming I understand history correctly, in that, years after the Jersey families rose to semi-prominence (after the heads of all the 5 New York families were sent to jail) a conflict in New York erupted as two guys (i.e Phil Leotardo and John Sacrimoni) were competing for both New York and Jersey guys as to who was going to lead the pack. Guys were whacked out on both sides (in addition to the Fed's constantly infiltrating the families) and today New York has taken over most, if not all, of the remaining Jersey rackets following the decline of the DeCalvalcante family.

BTW- Speaking of Phil, Does anyone know anything about the house used for his character in the show???

We see it in 6b, I think, as Phil is concealed inside whilst yelling down below to one of the members of the warring Luppertazzi's. It's a somewhat unassuming yet exremely lavish, gargantuan almost dome-shaped structure, located somewhere smack dab in the suburbs of Jersey Shore. The entire sprawling lot rests about a foot or two above the street and side walk.

I ask, because I seem to remember hearing it is in fact the real life home of Vincent Palermo, the real life Tony Soprano.

Now living in Texas, like you .

The house is in Newark, NJ.

http://www.sopranosuessightings.com/locationseason6.htm

Thanks guys!!

In my eyes, this is what made him such a compelling character. The whole arc of the character was fantastic. You start to realize he's a mirror image of Tony. A mob boss who is driven by a love for his family. Just as Tony spirals out of control the minute New York makes threats against his daughter, going so far as to curbstomp a made guy, even though it will start a huge conflict with mobsters he needs on his side, Phil spirals out of control the minute he has the power to get revenge on those he blames for his brother's death. The two make incredibly irrational attacks on each other's families, ignoring the fact that it could lead to disasters. On Tony's side, a war he can't win. On Phil's side, the loss of loyalty of his men.

Actually that was the throughout the show,more or less.Tony was being constantly disrespected and patronized both by Carmine and Phil Leotardo.They made unreasonable and downright disrespectful financial demands(40% of the HUD scam or the asbestos dumping for example).Both Carmine("glorified crew", "a don doesn't wear shorts" and Phil("Jersey?Come on John") mocked them.Gerry Torciano roughed up Hesh despite knowing he was with Tony.Doc Santoro used Sil to set up Gerry Torciano despite knowing Sil might get hurt.They were always under NY's thumb.
Johnny Sack was the only one who respected Tony but he still tried to pull fast ones over him,such as playing Paulie and getting info from him.

I don't think that was the case.NY mocked them as the "farmers",but they were not a 'farm team'.A farm team is where a major league team(so to speak) recruits members.Such was sometimes the case with the Tanglewood Boys and the Lucchese family.NY didn't recruit from the DeCavalcantes.

Well the Outfit is a given,but I'm not sure about the others.

***
As for the 'war',it was far fetched in the sense that in this day in age there would have to be a hell of a reason for two families to go to war.

But I'm not sure where people got the idea that Tony's family 'won'.
It was made clear from the very start that the situation was hopeless for the Jersey guys.But Tony was backed into a corner,he was marked for death anyway,so he had no choice.
-Paulie,who had big brass balls,and was portrayed as a legendary 'hitter' ,said "there could be a line at Cosarelli's(funeral place) a mile long".
-Tony's number 2 and 3 were hit
-Tony's crew had gone to ground.Meanwhile on the other side only Phil was hiding,the rest of his family was out in the open,and still no one got killed.
-The Jersey rackets were brining in no money.

The only they survived was because Butch betrayed Phil on account of Phil's implied threats over the phone,and it still took info from an FBI agent,else Tony would have never found Phil.

I understand that the show is focused on the Jersey Mafia so they have to make them look superior to New York(which is a fucking joke} but I still feel there were other ways to do it. I know people have said that the only reason why Tony beat Phil was because of Butchie and I agree to an extent but why would New york just submit to jersey a family that is half as small as them. I know people will say money but with Tony wiped out New york could take over everything in jersey. It also sucks for Phil I mean his brother was killed and he can't evenb exact his revenge. Its funny because people talk about how Tony always has to submit to New york which isn't entirely true. Phil had to basically bend over for Tony on a ton of things

I agree, but you have to remember that the show is told from Tony's point of view. He's the "anti-hero," for better or worse. To put him in a subordinate position would take away from the character's strength. Plus, David Chase is from Jersey, and I think that also plays into it. Call it hometown pride (however unrealistic it may be).

Ya I guess you can say that. To be truthful I guess i have hometoen bias since i'm a new yorker. For the most part the Sopranos had been a realistic showing of the mob. The only think I disagreed with from my research in mob history is that he made Jersey too strong. Other than that I think he did a real good job

Phil was hilarious. He came home in the wrong era.