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Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Sonny_Black] #586416
11/22/10 04:15 PM
11/22/10 04:15 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
But what is the exact reason why they now have so few members left compared to back in the days. I've read somewhere they decided to have less made members and more associates so they have more control over the organization. Is this the main reason?


At it's peak decades ago, the Outfit might have had as many as 200 members or so. Every family's size has declined to one degree or another, including Chicago. But there are other factors as well. As a result of both general attrition and massive prosecutions during the 1980's and 1990's, over the past 15 years, the Outfit has intentionally streamlined it's organization and operations, so as to have a smaller core and make less of a target for law enforcement. And, at least traditionally, they've had a larger ratio of associates. Though many don't seem to realize that it's not like in the old days where a non-Italian guy (like Humphries, Guzik, Alex, etc.) could reach the upper level of the hierarchy. Most of what made the Outfit a little different from other families in the U.S. no longer applies.


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Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586418
11/22/10 05:32 PM
11/22/10 05:32 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Interesting. Thanks for the info.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: DeSanto] #586427
11/22/10 06:02 PM
11/22/10 06:02 PM
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Posts: 290
ATL
SilentPartnerz Offline
Capo
SilentPartnerz  Offline
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ATL
Al "the pizza guy" Tornabene recently passed away.
Informative vidoes placed by Chuck Goudie from ABC News in Chicago can be viewed here:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/video?id=6824249


"Three can keep a secret..if two are dead."
Calogero Minacore
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586430
11/22/10 06:15 PM
11/22/10 06:15 PM
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Posts: 290
ATL
SilentPartnerz Offline
Capo
SilentPartnerz  Offline
Capo
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Posts: 290
ATL
Ivy, do you happen to know if Joe "Kong" Culotta is related to Frank Culotta from 'Casino'/Vegas/Ant Spilotro fame? I have always wondered, but cannot find a reference to any possible relation. Thanks.


"Three can keep a secret..if two are dead."
Calogero Minacore
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: SilentPartnerz] #586470
11/23/10 01:11 PM
11/23/10 01:11 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
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Originally Posted By: SilentPartnerz
Ivy, do you happen to know if Joe "Kong" Culotta is related to Frank Culotta from 'Casino'/Vegas/Ant Spilotro fame? I have always wondered, but cannot find a reference to any possible relation. Thanks.


No, I don't believe they are related.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586542
11/24/10 02:12 PM
11/24/10 02:12 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mukremin
yes i didnt count the members behind bars, and the soldiers lists, i am not sure whos in whos out.


To come back at this. You say you don't list made members of the Philly mob who are behind bars, yet you do list jailed members of other families, like the ones in New York.

Mukremin, you owe me an explanation. tongue


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Sonny_Black] #586575
11/24/10 06:20 PM
11/24/10 06:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Yeah you are right Sonny smile
Its mainly because we got more sources, at least more reliable sources about the NY Families. And they are pretty active, but the philly mob is not so organized as the others. Its a bit disfunctional at the moment, so its hard to say whos who and whos active. But i will fix that if i get more details.

And btw are the links still oke? because some have emailed me about the problems downloading the charts.


Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586598
11/25/10 01:19 AM
11/25/10 01:19 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted By: Mukremin
Yeah you are right Sonny smile
Its mainly because we got more sources, at least more reliable sources about the NY Families. And they are pretty active, but the philly mob is not so organized as the others. Its a bit disfunctional at the moment, so its hard to say whos who and whos active. But i will fix that if i get more details.

And btw are the links still oke? because some have emailed me about the problems downloading the charts.


The Philadelphia family membership is fairly well documented since there has been so much to write about by people like George Anastasia and others over the last 30 years. And even if a guy becomes inactive or is in prison, he doesn't cease to be a member. That only happens if the die or flip. So it's a little surprising when some news articles claim the family only has a couple dozen members. Maybe they mean active on the street but they don't specify that.


Last edited by IvyLeague; 11/25/10 01:20 AM.

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Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586601
11/25/10 01:56 AM
11/25/10 01:56 AM
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Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2010
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But isnt the same George Anastasia saying its a very disfunctional family? In his books, and tv reports on internet. But its strange of me, to include the other imprisoned members of the ny families and not the philly one. ill change that in the december update wink


Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586644
11/25/10 03:26 PM
11/25/10 03:26 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mukremin
But isnt the same George Anastasia saying its a very disfunctional family? In his books, and tv reports on internet. But its strange of me, to include the other imprisoned members of the ny families and not the philly one. ill change that in the december update wink


Yes, he's described them that way. And he's right. The Philadelphia family has had more internal conflict and more rats, relatively speaking, than any other family. But that's beside the fact they still have about 50 total members or so. Active on the street, however, it's about half of that.


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Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586683
11/26/10 08:01 PM
11/26/10 08:01 PM
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thebarber Offline
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hey guys when i look at the New england family chart i see they still have a crew based in connecticut. Does that crew have a capo? And if not who do they report to ???

Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: thebarber] #586691
11/27/10 12:40 AM
11/27/10 12:40 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: thebarber
hey guys when i look at the New england family chart i see they still have a crew based in connecticut. Does that crew have a capo? And if not who do they report to ???


At this point I think the Patriarca family has more like a handful or so of guys active in Connecticut. Not a whole crew based there with it's own captain.

From what I've seen, the breakdown is probably something like this:

Massachusetts - approximately 30 members
Rhode Island - approximately 15 members
Connecticut - approximately 5 members


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Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586714
11/27/10 11:23 AM
11/27/10 11:23 AM
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thebarber Offline
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ivy those estimates seem right but who do the connecticut guys report to ?? some1 in boston ? some1 in prov ? Or do they have there own capo? in your opinoin

Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586719
11/27/10 02:21 PM
11/27/10 02:21 PM
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DeSanto Offline
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague


Not so much on this board, but on others, there have been many heated debates about the Outfit - it's current size, strength, hierarchy, etc.

As far as it's size goes, even the official estimates vary. The average seems to be around 50 members. Recent defector Nick Calabrese supposedly identified about 60 made members of the Chicago mob, which is believable in my opinion. Far less so is the idea that they still have anywhere near 100 members.

From a number of recent sources, John DiFronzo remains the over all boss of the Outfit. Joseph Andriacchi is underboss but also is essentially street boss over the family's 4 remaining crews. Marco D'Amico has been said to have taken over as consigliere for the late Al Tornabene.

The 4 crews - Peter DiFronzo runs the Elmwood Park crew; which theoretically consists of that area, Rush Street, the rest of the North Side, and the Northern Suburbs stretching into Lake County. DiFronzo's immediate subordinates, often referred to as "street bosses," are said to be Mike Magnaficchi, Don Scalise, and Rudy Fratto.

Joe Cullotta runs the Grand Avenue crew; which theoretically consists of the area surrounding Grand and Ogden Avenues, the rest of the West Side, and the Western Suburbs stretching into DuPage County. Cullotta's immediate subordinate is said to be Chris Spina.

John Matassa run the Cicero (also called Melrose Park) crew. His immediate subordinates are said to be Mike Sarno, James Inendino, Mike Spano, and Salvatore DeLaurentis.

And Frank Caruso Jr. runs the 26th Street (also called Chinatown) crew; which theoretically consists of that area, the rest of the South Side and Chicago Heights, the Southern Suburbs stretching into Will County, and North West Indiana. Caruso's immediate subordinates are said to be Leo Caruso and Bruno Caruso.



Thanks for that info. Great update. I was unaware that Caruso,Jr, is now running 26th Street crew. So this Sarno guy who is currently on trial is indeed then a "street boss" in the Cicero/Melrose Park crew, immediately under Matassa. Interesting.

Links about that case which is going on here now and may send Sarno away (again) : http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/2903924,CST-NWS-sarno18.article

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/09/michael-the-large-guy-sar_0_n_781279.html

http://blogs.suntimes.com/mob/2010/11/the_sarno_trial_a_recap.html

Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: DeSanto] #586726
11/27/10 04:34 PM
11/27/10 04:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
check the first post for the updated charts of december updates, and stay tuned for a surpise chart smile you can guess.


Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: thebarber] #586751
11/27/10 11:54 PM
11/27/10 11:54 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: thebarber
ivy those estimates seem right but who do the connecticut guys report to ?? some1 in boston ? some1 in prov ? Or do they have there own capo? in your opinoin


That's anybody's guess. From what I've read, I just don't think they have a crew based in Connecticut at this point. And it was always #3 behind Providence and Boston as far as the Family's powerbase goes. Recently, the leadership of the Family reportedly went back to Boston where Limone is said to be the boss. The underboss being in Boston. Before it was the other way around, with Baby Shacks in Providence and DiNunzio in Boston. But I can see whatever Patriarca guys left in Connecticut answering to either Boston or Providence.


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Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: DeSanto] #586753
11/28/10 12:02 AM
11/28/10 12:02 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: DeSanto

Thanks for that info. Great update. I was unaware that Caruso,Jr, is now running 26th Street crew. So this Sarno guy who is currently on trial is indeed then a "street boss" in the Cicero/Melrose Park crew, immediately under Matassa. Interesting.


Caruso Jr. (and the Caruso family) has been running that crew for quite some time now. His late father, Caruso Sr., once ran it years ago.

Sarno is one of the top guys under Matassa. The term "street boss" may or may not apply anymore. At one point, the Outfit reorganized to where they had an "area boss" on the north, west, and south sides. Under each of these area bosses were a number of "street bosses" who oversaw their own crews. Basically captains in their own right. But I don't think that's the case anymore, with a smaller, more streamlined Outfit. Now, you've got the the adminiatration at the top - John DiFronzo, Joe Andriacchi, and maybe Marco D'Amico. And then Peter DiFronzo, Joe Cullotta,John Matassa, and Frank Caruso Jr. as the crew bosses. And people in their crews are basically soldiers (the made guys) and associates.


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Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586762
11/28/10 08:28 AM
11/28/10 08:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
Underboss
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Posts: 1,153
Here is the surprise, its the Detroit Cosa Nostra Family. Its not finished yet, but God they are hard to find any detail or picture.
the charts on 1st page has been edited

Last edited by Mukremin; 12/05/10 06:37 AM.

Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586777
11/28/10 11:11 AM
11/28/10 11:11 AM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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LOL! I already thought about asking you if you could make that chart. Job well done. smile


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Sonny_Black] #586778
11/28/10 11:19 AM
11/28/10 11:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
Underboss
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Posts: 1,153
well that came out oke then grin
what other charts would you guys like to see? it must be a pretty active family.


Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586783
11/28/10 01:25 PM
11/28/10 01:25 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
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It would be very cool to see the charts of the biggest families at their height, probably in the 1950s-1970s.

The Genovese's, Gambino's, Bonanno's, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago Outfit etc.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Sonny_Black] #586784
11/28/10 01:44 PM
11/28/10 01:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
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Thats a good idea, but there are allready fbi charts of that era. I am looking more for a modern one, and i think i made a mistake with the Detroit chart, boss picture is a different guy i think.

doesnt matter, i edited the chart. Its much more complete now. enjoy


Last edited by Mukremin; 12/05/10 06:38 AM.

Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586832
11/29/10 12:36 PM
11/29/10 12:36 PM
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Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
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Mukrenim, can you also make a jpg of the Detroit family?


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Sonny_Black] #586844
11/29/10 03:24 PM
11/29/10 03:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Sure here it is:

first page edited also

Last edited by Mukremin; 12/05/10 06:38 AM.

Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586853
11/29/10 04:58 PM
11/29/10 04:58 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
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Posts: 3,568
Thanks!


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Sonny_Black] #586860
11/29/10 07:23 PM
11/29/10 07:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Heres a first version of Kansas City Cosa Nostra. I want to say thanks to NJBoy55, for all his help with getting pictures and information. enjoy!!

check first page

Last edited by Mukremin; 12/05/10 06:38 AM.

Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: Mukremin] #586881
11/30/10 09:18 AM
11/30/10 09:18 AM
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thebarber Offline
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hey guys thank u to everyone who is working on these charts they r awesome. My question i a couple wks ago i was told here that the LA, DEtroit , Buff and KC families were all dead but then all of a sudden charts of these families popped up. Could some please list for me ALL the families that are still alive, active and organized in the eyes of law enforcement no matter how big or small. thanks

Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: thebarber] #586903
11/30/10 03:36 PM
11/30/10 03:36 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: thebarber
hey guys thank u to everyone who is working on these charts they r awesome. My question i a couple wks ago i was told here that the LA, DEtroit , Buff and KC families were all dead but then all of a sudden charts of these families popped up. Could some please list for me ALL the families that are still alive, active and organized in the eyes of law enforcement no matter how big or small. thanks


There are still members and associates in these areas but, as formally structured, viable organizations, the families in Los Angeles, Buffalo, and Kansas City are dead. There's some debate about Detroit.

Once again, the only mob families that are still recognized by law enforcement, regardless of many of the charts that get posted on internet forums, are the 5 New York families, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Chicago, and maybe Detroit.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586906
11/30/10 03:45 PM
11/30/10 03:45 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Just for the record, Kansas City probably has no more than 15 made members left at most. Detroit no more than 30 members at most.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: New Mafia family charts [Re: IvyLeague] #586912
11/30/10 03:59 PM
11/30/10 03:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
Mukremin Offline OP
Underboss
Mukremin  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,153
IvyLeague is correct, but we will never know the truth behind it. And i posted the soldiers/associates together because i am not sure whose made and whos not. The charts are only to give an indication about the families, the big "Active" families are more easier to make.

By the way Ivyleague, maybe you can help me out on a correct list of soldiers. That way we wil have a more accurate view of the smaller families

Last edited by Mukremin; 11/30/10 04:01 PM.

Up to date mafia charts --> https://cosanostracharts.wordpress.com/
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