You win, I am done,there is no use in discussing anything on this board, which might be the reason that there arnt that many people on it, I have seen how you trash everyone who disagrees with your expert knowledge so its not suprising that there is no one else here. Peace out. Who do I speak with to drop out of this board because in all honesty it has not been a lot of fun. peace professor.

That was awesome.

Ivy knows his shit. Its just he's got a bit of a condescending way of showing it. I dont think he means it it, he just comes across as a bit of an a-hole sometimes when he's stating his view.



I love the back & forths though; they're always cool.
Enthralling.

He does not know as much as he thinks he knows, let me ask you a question, if the mob in kc was just a couple of old timers from back in the day as he suggests, why would 10 guys be afraid of them. Currently in Levenworth are 10 individuals from KC who are serving contempt of court sentences for refusing to testify against these guys for the gambling indictments. If it was as Ivy describes these guys would not be serving a day because they refuse to testify, so they must be afraid of something, think about that.

First, you're taking this all way to personally and showing a certain level of "fanboyism." Second, it's interesting how you have to keep making up false arguments and attributing them to me. When did I say the mob in Kansas City was "just a couple of old timers from back in the day?" Answer: I didn't. What I've said is that there is, in all probability, nowhere near 60+ made members left there. Not even half that much. And that a formally structured family no longer extists there as far as the FBI is concerned. You can still see the feds talking about the families in certain other areas of the country but Kansas City is one of those that only has remnants left. And the level of mob activity there, or lack thereof, demonstrates as much. And some guys serving relatively short stints for contempt of court doesn't prove anything. Other than perhaps they see it as worth not losing their contacts in the long run.

wow you and wiseguy love that term huh, fanboyism, no your statement was that they were 10 made men, and no structure, so why do time, up to 18 months for this, I would be scare of that, not enough to do 18 months, you act like their staying at a motel. I 've done 18 months + and I can tell you I would not do it to keep from testifying against bascially what you describe as a unstructed group of old italian guys who gamble. Apparently you have never done federal prison time of you might think differntly.

I never said there were 60 + made members, in there hey day back in the 70's they never had 60 made men. No you said they had no more than 10 which has been my argument the whole time, because I know there is more than 10 but since I cant get the FBI to issue you a press release. I am not taking it personal, why would I, it is frustrating when you find close minded invididuals who believe one thing and are unwilling to adjust there opinion even when someone who is getting their information from a much closer prespective because they live in the neiborhood and know the people in question, because the FBI does not say there is. But hey I am done trying to talk to you about it, in fact I was actually speaking to meatballs who thinks highly of you, but I have read a lot of your posts here and on the other board and all I can say is it must be really nice to be right all the time. Peace

Explain one thing to me, at the time of Tony Civellas death in 2006 the FBI recognized the KC outfit and that he was the boss or head of the family. Yet there were not a lot of mob actvities hitting the papers, in fact there was very little after the mid 90's beside Porrello and Calia, hmmmm not activity, yet the FBI recognized them, so the dead of one person dismantles a family, I hardly think so and I dont think it would disappear in just 4 years.

William "Big Billy" D'Elia has been called "the boss" of the Bufalino family in northeast Pennsylvania for years now. Even though there is, at most, 3 members left. Identifying a guy as the boss doesn't necessarily equate to affirming there is still a formally structured family there.

By the way, you're making a little bit more sense over on the other forum by saying what's left in Kansas City is basically a glorified crew. I don't think anyone would dispute that at all. There are still glorified crews in Tampa, Cleveland, Los Angeles, etc.

Ivy, I think part of the problem may be terminology differences, I am not trying to make KC the 6th NY family, the only point I have been trying to make is that they are bigger than some speculate, most of you guys put them at 10 members, I know there bigger than that, but I dont think there are more than 20, I think the number is around 17 or 18. I also know that there is structure there, it may not be the usual structure as they have in the big familys, but there is a boss, however after doing some more research in all honesty to prove you wrong LOL. I am coming to the conclusion that they do not operate under the normally rules, in that I dont think they make guys here anymore, I think basically you have a boss a second in command and then a few very trusted people to organize and arraing the activitys of the rest of the crew which I think is around 30 guys tops,and this would include what you guys were term as associates, I think however that they just operate like a street gang in that respect, you are just told you part of the gang, or you with us that kind of thing. The whole organization to include leadership and worker bees is probably in the 35 to 40 guy range. The other thing I am trying to convey to you and I do this with first hand knowlege is that they are growing in number with at least 15 guys I know of under the age of 30. Compared to their standing in the mid 90's where most of the family was over the age of 40. Now the 35 to 40 number may be a little high or a little low because its difficult to get a handle on which of the old timers are still operating.

I am not trying to be a dick, but I think you can understand that when you know something its difficult to be told you dont. I know you are used to dealing with some wack jobs, but I am not one of them. I have done time, but I also have 2 BS degrees, so I do know how to research, and I also work in an industry that puts me in contact with these types of people and I am sure that most of the guys on here telling you whats up are not from the neighborhood and did not grow up with a lot of the guys were discussing nor did they have a family member who was involved. I will tell you though my Uncle who is now in his mid 90's can give me a lot of insight on the 60's and 70's, but not on the current activities, but he did introduce me to a lot of people growing up from the old crews, some who are still active and like I have said I grew up with a lot of the newer guys.

Hey, between the various Cammisano's, Civella's & Sansone's there's gotta be somethin' goin' on in KC no? Recognized or not, there's those couple of handfuls of guys, doing what they do how they do. "Viable" or whatever; killers & thieves, killin' & thievin', but interesting & stand up e-nuff.

Zigackly.

I am also one who hates this term. Fanboyism. Blech. I bought a book about this Australian lady who cut up her husband & cooked pieces of him on the stove with a rosemary & worcestershire (spl?) marinade. Crazy lady actually worked at an abbotoir nearby my house. Interesting, eh? I followed the case & subsequent trial, sentencing & aftermath. Now, am i a crazy-lady-who-cooked-her-husband-up fanboy? That's right. No. Like i've stated (well at least one time) before on dis here BB; caint-cha read up & stay up on a criminim phenom. without being all sympathetic & shit?

Not a lotta news articles generally seems to indicate not a lotta articl-ey stuff being picked up, none of that "hard copy/evening news" crime, the 7.30 report stuff. BUT...it dont mean the handful of quiet books, bust-outs & ex-torts are'nt taking place. Or that certain dudes are'nt doin' tings. I recognize that.

Zig-gackly.

Big Carmine knew the analogy.gy.gy.gy.\

Sheet, if youza live in the KC, & you keep an eye on the local rags, you'd have an idea of whats goin' on y'd think. Moreso if you sorta on the periph'.

Story of my life.

See, i'd reckon that's fair enough. I like to think i myself know alot more than the average doucher 'bout my neck o' the woods, including; who's in charge, what they do, how they do & when they do:

(yeah i know; "whatchu talkin' 'bout Croc Dundee? Hoo da mean c**ts in your patch of bush? Ed Smelly? Waltzin' Matilda? Roving fgangs of gangster koalas & boxing kangaroos?

Well, actually, alot of mean Hells Angels, Bandido's, Nomads & Black Uhlans. Ahem. Dem be bikers.
I know its off on a tangent, but str8 up: Aussies love the drugs, the old amphetamines in par-tick-yoo-lar;
the biker clubs have & have had the meth trade locked down for some decades now. Thats how it go in Australia: the Asians have all the slow*, the Italians grow all the green** & the skips are flat out selling fast*** to each other - *-heroin, **-marijuana, ***-speed)

...ahem. See, the thing is that when these back & forth debates go on, the amount of information presented as weight for the respective argument just makes for even more mob shit to cross-ref. & compile. I rikey vely much. Thankee-sai.

Ivy you keep claiming the murder of Charles Cammisano was his wife in a domestic abuse case. Here is the update to the article your getting your information from.

http://www.kctv5.com/news/14062206/detail.html

There have been no arrests in this case.

Joe Cammisano's grand son and the Great Newphew of William Cammisano sr. was murdered in 2004. Although there was a beef with an ex girlfriends new boy friend they police never interviewed that guy because they suspect that he was murdered because they assume he was a snich. He was involved in a X distrubution operation, the feds dropped indictments on everyone in the group but him, this group included Joe Mortena who is a connected guy along with several other italians whose involvement I am not clear on, also part of this group were some mexican gang drug dealers, to include Ceasar Vacca. IN this town Vacca is know to be a violent guy. Resulted in jail time for the members who were indicted, to include Joe Moretina. Because he was not charged like the others they felt he was cooperating and this resulting in his murder. This occured in 2004. I am not stating all this as a basis for any kind of mob resurgence argument, I am just noting mob/mob connected activity.

new here...interesting reads, guys...thanks..

question....which Moretina owns the bar in city market ??
What surgery did he just have ??

Well if your taking about Caddy Shack on 3rd st, that would be Rose Moretina, as for his surgery, the only person who would know that is family and friends, which one are you?

Lombardo pleds in gambling case in KC

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/11/2143727/indicted-kc-man-admits-role-in.html

Update, The Shady lady strip club is not owned by Spinello, he is the General Manager, the club has had different names by the same owner since 1950. The club is owned by Peter Genova and has been owned by Genova for its entire history. The Genova clan has ties to organized crime in KC.

ahhhh...the good old days of the Red Apple and Shadows come to mind....

So who is claiming to be who, are you saying your a Civella, any blown up cars in your past??? Or are you just checking to see if I know these old strip clubs, Shadows on SW boulavard and of course the red apple in KCK which was owned by Jack Anderson, which is notorious because Cork blow up the owners car muscling in on the club and because Anderson had left 3 girls in Vegas without a way home and one of those girls was Carl "Corky" Civella's girlfriend. If you are someone who's someone it would be interesting to talk with you and see if we may know some of the same people, or we might get a more accurate prespective of whats occuring in KC.

Joey_dice I'm not sure they have any judges or politicians in kansas city any longer with Tigers wife gone. There is a recent rise of old names in the government side running for office that may be their people but do you really feel they do? Like who because I only hear about how its not like the good old days.

If .....

BALANCE OF MESSAGE DELETED ~ COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL HAD BEEN PLAGIARIZED.

To tonysoprano111:

Do not copy material and then post it as your own.

Both Joe and Jimmy Moretina are involved. What about John? I see he made KCTV news on some voter fraud deal in October.

Does anyone know if Bobolini has been back to the forum? Great photo he posted...not sure who's who, except for the guy in the white jacket.

Well you had Tigers wife who is now gone, you also have Bondon,who is influential with the council. I dont know how I missed John Moretina being involved in the Rizzo deal, thanks for point that out. You know Luke Scavuzzo was elected to state office. If your from the NE you know the family and who their connected to. In my post I was speaking in terms of recent years since some were saying their was not involvement in governements since the early 80's. I have heard that Reeder is in the pocket but have not specific proof.

I dont think there is a moretina not involved in the family business.

a list of new england family soldiers would b great. Thanks

There's one earlier in this thread.

What can anyone here tell me about "Joe Hooks" Mirabile of Detroit? Yeah, I know he is allegedly the underboss there now. Has he ever been arrested and if so for what? How old is he? Any brothers or sisters? etc.
His uncle Paul Mirable (brother of "Papa Tony" Mirable who was whacked during a "bulgled robbery" in 1958), asked me about twenty years ago to be his driver here in San Diego. If I'd known his background, I would have accepted his offer...

Thanks,
--Tommy

Author Scott Burnstein, who posts as mcscott over on the Real Deal, would be the best one to answer this question.

Thanks for that, Ivy.

--Tommy

Great looking stuff. Thanks for all the hard work and effort putting it together.