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Actually Rather Good #279370
12/07/05 05:00 AM
12/07/05 05:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
London, England
Jimmy The Hat Offline OP
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Jimmy The Hat  Offline OP
Associate
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
London, England
You guys need to chill out a bit. I'm a massive fan of The Godfather, both the book and the films and I am actually quite enjoying The Godfather Returns. Winegardner seems to have pretty much nailed the spirit of Puzo and is doing interesting things with the characters. I haven't finished it yet, but I shall do shortly. It just seems to me that the other posters here need to sit back, get a bit of perspective and stop planning to lynch Winegardner. It's taken guts to do what he's done and most of you sound like you would have criticised anyone who wrote a Godfather novel.

Re: Actually Rather Good #279371
12/07/05 07:41 AM
12/07/05 07:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Thats your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I think the book stinks!!

Welcome to the boards.


.
Re: Actually Rather Good #279372
12/07/05 07:56 AM
12/07/05 07:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,046
Miami, FL
Don Andrew Offline
Underboss
Don Andrew  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,046
Miami, FL
No, it's a piece of sh*t.

Welcome to the boards.


Hey, how's it going?
Re: Actually Rather Good #279373
12/07/05 11:48 PM
12/07/05 11:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,453
California
X
XDCX Offline
XDCX  Offline
X

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,453
California
*cough* This book sucks. It sucks so bad that Winegardner should be arrested and charged with some weird, obsolete crime that no one has ever heard of. *cough*

I hope I wasn't too subtle.

Welcome to the boards!


"Growing up my dad was like 'You have a great last name, Galifianakis. Galifianakis...begins with a gal...and ends with a kiss...' I'm like that's great dad, can we get it changed to 'Galifianafuck' please?" -- Zach Galifianakis



Re: Actually Rather Good #279374
12/08/05 12:34 AM
12/08/05 12:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
Mignon Offline
Mama Mig
Mignon  Offline
Mama Mig

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
Welcome to the BB Jimmy The Hat This is a great place to meet new friends. I've enjoyed every second. I'm glad you like the book but, like most of us I thought it stunk to high Heaven. I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts.


Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12


Re: Actually Rather Good #279375
12/08/05 05:00 AM
12/08/05 05:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
London, England
Jimmy The Hat Offline OP
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Jimmy The Hat  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
London, England
I can understand why it could be criticised (for example, I wasn't that impressed with Clemenza's death, it wasn't at all as I imagined it would be, and Fredo being gay is just bizarre), but I think the personal attacks on Winegardner are a bit harsh. I imagine he was bricking it when it came out - sure, it can't touch the original book, but it ain't that bad! Without wishing to be cliche, it's business. Not personal.

Re: Actually Rather Good #279376
12/09/05 02:27 PM
12/09/05 02:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 275
UK
Paul Krendler Offline
The Dude
Paul Krendler  Offline
The Dude
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 275
UK
On this, Jimmy The Hat, I bow to your logic. It isn't fair to attack Winegardner personally. He did a job that Random House commissioned him to do, and if he made a complete balls-up of it then it's Random House to be blamed for not only publishing it, but not insisting on rewrites.

However debatable his writing ability is, Winegardner had a wealth of knowledge to draw from; the characters of Hyman Roth and Johnny Ola are barely mentioned the same with the brilliant Frank Pentangelo (although Clemenza and Tessio's deaths are documented - thank heavens for small mercies). Instead of ploughing the depths of Godfather lore, we get treated to a dull protagonist (Nick Geraci), a barely-recognizable Michael Corleone, a completely out-of-character Fredo and a long and boring subplot regarding Francesca Corleone and Billy Van Arsdale.

The publishers know their demographics. They're aware that there will always be an interest in the franchise and they know that the characters are well loved and established. Someone at Random House should have noticed that the characters were shallow and the storyline incomprehensible and flatly nonexistent. Someone needed to pull Winegardner to one side and say "Hold on, what the hell are you writing here?" Do they employ proofreaders? Random House assume that just because an author has read 100 books on the Mafia and organised crime for research, he's qualified to write about the Corleone family.

After reading the book I tried to imagine what Mr Puzo would have made of the book. My guess is that he would have advised Winegardner to keep the Geraci character but take the story and the character in a whole new direction. Geraci 's hype on the jacket promised a Sicilian with cunning, but this wasn't delivered. Maybe Mario could have given him pointers.

IMHO, if Winegardner could have or would have sought the input of FFC, he might have written a better book. Maybe he did consult Mr Coppola, I don't know. All I know is that if The Godfather's Revenge is as badly constructed as The Godfather Returns/The Lost Years, there'll be more of the same of this for that particular book.


"I'm sorry if your stepmother is a nympho but I don't see what this has to do with, uh... do you have any Kalhua?"
Re: Actually Rather Good #279377
12/16/05 07:12 AM
12/16/05 07:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
London, England
Jimmy The Hat Offline OP
Associate
Jimmy The Hat  Offline OP
Associate
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
London, England
Well. I finished it last night and I have to say that I remain quite pleased with it. I don't agree with some aspects of it - particularly Michael, he just sounds far too removed from the character that has been established by Puzo's book and the films. Similarly, the alterations to Fredo are bizarre but more believable than Michael. I found the Francesca Corleone subplot very interesting and a character that could be expanded upon later. I will definitely read the next novel - I tend to think of these new storylines almost as a parallel universe. Not quite what I thought would happen...but almost.

Re: Actually Rather Good #279378
12/20/05 12:18 AM
12/20/05 12:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 29
marlon orange Offline
Wiseguy
marlon orange  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 29
SPOILER WARNING!!!!!
I didn't find as much if a problem with Winegardner's writing as I did with the UNDOING of "facts" that we've known from the book and movies.
Michael went to Dartmouth.... Kay had an abortion...Fredo struck a deal with Rith because he was more ambitious than smart, not because he was manipulated. These are things we KNOW....I found Winegardner's boldness in rewriting Puzo (and Coppola) unpalatable...It was his job to fill in the blanks, not change the characters. If Michael had Dr Jules killed for performing an abortion on Kay, and that abortion never happened, it not only is a statement on Michael's brutality, but his ability to find out the truth as well. The same goes for Michael's killing Fredo, rather than preventing him from being manipulated by a more cunning rival. That changes what know about Michael from before. I don't know about all of you, but I was interested in seeing an evolution of characters, not a rewriting of them....


"I believe in America" - Bonasera
Re: Actually Rather Good [Re: marlon orange] #428161
08/22/07 02:17 PM
08/22/07 02:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 39
Texas
Mr. Bobby Fontaine Offline
Wiseguy
Mr. Bobby Fontaine  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 39
Texas
Well, the book is what it is, y'know...Marlon, I think you've got something very right in that post. I read this over a year ago; I'm going to have to do it again, and pay a little more attention to details here and there. I wasn't necessarily disappointed with Winegardner's characterizations, but I remember questioning some of his decisions. And we always knew Fredo was "squirrely," to use a popular euphemism here in Texas.

But I remember enjoying the book while reading it; I think a lot of us are "hung up" on the FILMS, and haven't read Puzo's original NOVEL in way too long! I reread that one just prior to this one, and they seemed to dovetail perfectly, for me, at the time.

To each his own, huh? But for the record, the book is NOT terrible. I found it a pretty good read, at the time...I'll look for glaring ommissions/faulty logic/changed details next time, and I'll report here. Thanks for the post!


"Only a fool would say that."
--Steely Dan
Re: Actually Rather Good [Re: Mr. Bobby Fontaine] #439508
09/26/07 01:23 PM
09/26/07 01:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,527
In a van down by the river!
Longneck Offline
Longneck  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,527
In a van down by the river!
If you forget everything you know about the Corleone family then it's not that bad, but like marlon says, Winegardner tried to change things too much about the characters




Long as I remember The rain been coming down.
Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground.
Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun;
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.

Re: Actually Rather Good [Re: Longneck] #445347
10/22/07 10:50 PM
10/22/07 10:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 427
B
Brwne Byte Offline
Capo
Brwne Byte  Offline
B
Capo
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 427
I do remember reading it that it seemed like Micheal was "nicer" than he normally was. Or something like that. When they had him and Kay "making out" in an empty movie theater, It felt a little strange. But I still liked it!


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