Between the 3, who do you guys consider the greatest champion of all time?

1) Ric Flair
2) Hulk Hogan
3) Bret Hart

I'd say Bret is my favorite and I want to vote for him, but in all honesty I have to give it to Hulk Hogan. The man just did so much for the sport and put it on the map I think in ways Ric Flair never could/did. Flair did a lot too, but I feel Hogan had more of an international impact that really help the sport grow

Hulk Hogan, uncontested. Granted, Hogan is the least technical of the choices, but mention all three of those names to almost anybody in the world, and I guarantee more people know the name Hulk Hogan. Even non-wrestling fans know who Hulk Hogan is. He's a household name. You can't say that about anybody else in the business, not even The Rock.

I have to agree with Hogan. At his prime with the WWF, he was a superstar to his own of which even The Rock or Mr. Steve Austin haven't met with yet. Not to mention hes the most important for sure.

My problem with Hogan was that he always had that lame "finishing" move of his. I mean weak bodyslam then leg drop.

Ric Flair can easily be argued as the greatest, yet its hard for me to say this when he has the same "dance routine" in the ring for the last few decades.

Now Brett Hart was really great. Great Technical and Mat skills that he only could have learned from the legendary Hart Family. Too bad his "mic skills" was always mediocre at best.

When do you think the WWF/E was in its prime? Who were the main-eventers, who was champion, which kind of alliances/storylines were there, and so on?

Mick

For me, I think it was probably in its prime during the late 1980s to early 1990s (maybe 1988-1992). The main-eventers were Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Ric Flair, Macho Man Randy Savage with mid-carders such as Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Jake the Snake Roberts, etc. As for storylines, I did like the Corporate angle, as well as the original DX (HHH, Shawn Michaels, and Chyna). But the WWF did get a second wind during the late 1990s (1998+) with Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, New Age Outlaws, etc

What made the "nWo" work especially was that besides the really good tag team in the "Outsiders"(remember when Tag Team Wrestling was actually considered serious by its respective group?), was also how the unthinkable had occured: Hulk Hogan as the heel. Real brilliant coup there. What was odd about the tag team was that Hall was a decent good wrestler, but Kevin Nash(or we kiddies remembered him as The Diesel back in the WWF days) was never a good wrestler.

Too bad Scott Hall aka Razor Ramon had his never-conquerable problems with alcohol and drugs which got him kicked out of wrestling, and Nash....he just never worked for me as a serious heavyweight champ.

Now the WWF was powerful back in 1998/1999, to the point that when ABC's MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL tried to move its game time to 8 PM mondays at the time, WWF *whipped* it in the ratings. Ouch. Not to mention that as legend claims, the Walt Disney Corporation(parents of ABC, ESPN, etc.) tried to *bribe* the WWF into moving RAW to another night with about $100 million. Of course this was before Vince Big Mac's company deflated and the disaster that was the XFL.

I never heard that Monday Night Football tried to bride the WWF to move Raw Why didn't Monday Night Football just move?

Because they couldn't have Monday night football on a tuesday :rolleyes: :p :p

Sure they could have had "Tuesday Night" or even "Thursday Night" Football

Bah, now it's clear that MNF kills Raw, WWE's ratings have declined steadily over the past few years, especially since WCW went under, because now, without competition, the product has turned to shite.

Which is why I think ECW will be brought back under Paul Heyman- the buy rate for ECW one night stand was something like 3times what they expected it to be and was the highest buyrate in years if I remember correctly.

Vince needs ECW

[img]http://www.wwe.com/content/media/touts/feature/29062/603518[/img]

Well, its no secret that WWE has slowly and somewhat quietly been on the path of "resurrecting" ECW as of sorts a minor-league wrestling league(like say Arena Football or NFL Europe to the NFL) that would play at 5-10,000 seat buildings and appeal to an audience outside of the juvenile/adolescent kids that the WWE has been somewhat reaching out to for many years. I mean really.

ONE NIGHT STAND was intended to be WWE's "trial run" to see if ECW would sell again..and apparently it does. I expect to see ECW back up and running sometime in the new year. Now if they let "Tazz" wrestle regularly like he used to in ECW before he got benched, I would really be happy.

I want to see the One Night Stand DVD when it comes out (any ideas on when?) Altough I did just get The Rise and Fall of ECW-Disc 1 through Blockbuster Online and I plan on watching it tonight. I never watched it when it was on TV so I'm really looking forward to the DVD & The One Night Stand DVD

According to WrestlingNewsWorld.com, WWE is rushing the DVD out the door, with a scheduled release date of June 28. Here's the link.

ECW: One Night Stand

Wow! Grazie xxx, now I don't have to wait as long!

In regards to the question of Flair, Hogan or Hart, I would have to agree with you guys and say Hogan. He made wrestling mainstream, when it was thought of as a circus, attracting old ladies with canes, and illiterate fans. He also made all the headliners in all the territories more money due to the attention wrestling was now getting.

My favourite though is Flair. No one could cut a promo like him, and he was fantastic in the ring. Woooooooo! (even though he is almost 100% comedy now, he is still great!)

Bret was an underated champion. He had excellent skills and could carry a match. Too bad he will always be remembered as a whiner for the Survivor Series.

just my 2 cents (canadian money)

As regards Hart's whining for the Gang Rulez Survivor Series (at which, may I note, every single heel won, from which I still haven't recovered!), do people think he was right to do so? Or are you loving Vince McMahon all the way?

I still lament how Hart's career turned out. Luck (if we can be so bold as to call it that) hasn't been kind to him, with many sudden deaths in the family.

For me, he was always, and still is, and will always be the excellent of execution. And the best out of the Hogan, Flair and Hart contest would be Bret. Hogan may be more important for wrestling, but he could never wrestle. Flair was always a mere cartoon, though an excellent wrestler. But Bret was cool man. He was cool.

Mick

Don't get me wrong Mick, I love Hart. I just think his legacy is a little tarnished. Too many questions remain unanswered regarding the SS. I think it was all true, and no, i am not a big fan of Vince McMahon. He is an excellent promoter, but a lousy person.

A whiner!? The man spilt blood, sweet, and tears for that company. He put his body on the line night in and night out, was away from his family 200+ days out of the year, worked through injuries, etc etc. And all he asked for was to be treated with respect and to allow him to drop the title in the United States as opposed to his home country of Canada. VERY understandable in my book, nor do I think it's asking a lot (if anything at all). Bret has every reason in the world to "whine" as you so put it

Mick, I agree. Bret was and still is the best. IMO, he's probably one of the best "wrestlers" (wrestlers who can actually wrestler and not just a gimmick). He was the best technical wrestler I ever saw.

I guess I should try and write more clearly. I did not say "I" thought he was a whiner, but it has been seven years since the Survivor Series, and he still talks about it regularly, and when people discuss him, it is always brought up.
I repeat "I love Hart"

Me too! I heart him.

Mick

Har Har!

BTW, did you know that Brett Hart owns a minor league hockey team in Canada? Naturally, they are named THE HITMEN.

I agree 100% that Hart was the best wrestler of the above-mentioned wrestlers. While Hogan and Flair are more important in "wrasslin" history, Hart was the best wrestler of the bunch. Besides, he didn't repeat the SAME MATCH ROUTINE for decades like Flair. Hart's only problem as I've said before was that his mike skills methinks was a tad weak. Still, him and the "Hart Foundation" was pretty darn good.

As for his deal with that infamous SURVIVOR SERIES...ya he got screwed by Vince, and he was just never the same when he worked at WCW.

Oh and Maple Leafs, thanks for your 2 cents worth of Canadian money. I'll use it when I'm done wiping my bottom with some Mexican Pesos in the bathroom. JK!

Personally I think that the best time was shortly after they decided to make the show a little more adult. The Bret Hart screwjob at suvivior series got rid of the tradiontal fighter and gave every one a bad ass gimmick (ie Fighter Kama turning into Godfather and Triple H moving from a snob to DX sidekick/leader).
Id say between Wrestlemaina 14 and 15 was wrestling at its best, mainly summer to March. This time included Hell in a Cell, DX in its first and only entertaining run, the Corporation (Rock, Shammrock, Bossman, Test, Vince, and Shane). We also saw Rock as a bad guy, where in my opinion he was a better performer. Mick Foley held the title a few times. Stone Cold was against all odds with Vince. The Undertaker and Kane storylines. The middle card wrestlers were entertaining too. Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart with Debra, Val Venis, the Brood, the Oddities with ICP, Sable and Jackie.
damn if wrestling were still like that id still watch it all the time. suck it

Yeah, my favourite storyline was Stone Cold against all odds with Vince. I used to love looking forward to the Royal Rumbles with them.

With that in mind, what is everybody's favourite Pay Per View, and which one of them is your favourite?

Mine is the Royal Rumble, and my favourite of those was probably (either) 1995, with Michaels and Bulldog first and last two in (or) 1998, When Austin beat The Rock to win.

Mick

WrestleMania was always my favorite PPV. I know one of my favorite's was WrestleMania 10. Every match was awesome (especially the first ever ladder match between Razor Ramon and Shawn Michaels). Not to mention Bret Hart going on to beat both Lex Luger and Yokozuna to win the WWF Title!

WrestleMania 10 was definitely awesome, but my favorite was WrestleMania 9, at Caesar's Palace. We saw the debut of good ol' J.R. Jim Ross, who is the greatest play-by-play commentator in the history of professional wrestling, bar-none. We saw The Undertaker face impossible odds when he went face-to-chest with Giant Gonzales (he ended up winning by DQ when Gonzales knocked him out with a cloth soaked in ether). The then still undefeated Tatanka took on Shawn Michaels for the Intercontinental Championship, and won, but by DQ, so no title change. There were a few more, but the best match of the night was Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna for the WWF Championship. For a man of his size, Yokozuna was fast and agile. Bret Hart gave him everything he had, but it was not to be. Mr. Fuji threw salt in his eyes, Yokozuna hit the sumo drop, and won the WWF title for the first time. Hulk Hogan came out to check on his friend, when Fuji issued a challenge to Hogan, right there and then. Bret said "Go for it!" Yokozuna grabbed Hogan, Fuji threw the salt, but Hogan ducked and it hit Yokozuna. He hit the big boot, dropped the leg, and became the WWF Champion for what was his last relevant title reign.

I use to love wrestling, but that has changed. The new ECW storyline is a bit entertaining, but WWE keeps using the same crappy "Triple H loses the belt, cheats, wins it back and loses it again." No shit he has become a 10x champion. :rolleyes:

Anyways, I'll talk about the good ole days.


Some of my favorite matches ever were:

Wrestlemania V: "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan for the WWF Heavyweight Title

Wrestlemania XII: "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Gold(gay)dust in a "Hollywood Back Lot Brawl"

Those are just a few... Too many to list

How about you guys?

Wrestlemania 3 I want to say, when it was the tournament for the belt.

Macho Man vs Million Dollar Man

Ms Elizabeth is leaving her man in the ring....where's she going?

wait 3 minutes

IT'S THE HULKSTER! Crowd goes NUTZ.

Great Match

Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart - Iron Man Match; WrestleMania XII
Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon - Ladder Match; WrestleMania X
Shawn Michaels vs British Bulldog - King of the Ring '96
Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect - King of the Ring (Semi Final) '93
Ultimate Warrior vs Macho Man Randy Savage - WrestleMania VII (?)
Ultimate Warrior vs Macho Man Randy Savage - SummerSlam '92
Ultimate Warrior vs Rick Rude - SummerSlam '89

All fantastic matches.

Mick

HULK HOGAN IS ON RAW RIGHT NOW!!!

Ugh. Do these guys ever retire? Oh wait. This is wrestling, not "real" sports.

I'll have to watch Smackdown! Thursday night to see what's new and exciting. I'll probably last about 10 minutes before dying of soap opera melodrama boredom. :p

Smackdown has been getting worse but rumors going around are that Trish is going to smackdown. can NEVER get tired of that

Random Thoughts on RAW....

*Oh yes, "Carlito" on RAW...yeech! Besides the fact that hes a lame wrestler on all fronts, especially in showmanship/mic/"persona" skills. Looks like he'll replace Jericho's usual "Highlight Reel"(then again, I always thought such "Show Within a Show" concepts were silly but whatever), sad since Jericho is always entertaining whenever given the mic, heel or hero.

*Besides that other lame "draft pick", there was The Big Show. Wow....I always hated him. His gimmick is that hes very tall and blah blah blah. Really, hes Kevin Nash but without the white trash look. Like Nash, he can't wrestle to save his life and speaking of which, why is he fighting on SMACKDOWN later this week? Oddly, the only time he was interesting to watch was when Nash supposedly "broke" his neck.

*I was going to complain about the silly ultra-soft porn fluff that is the whole DIVA sillyness until I realized: (1) I actually give it credit by acknowledging it, and (2) no one cares.

*Despite last night's PPV that obviously I didn't watch, I would actually like to see Cena and Jericho in a singles match sometime. I mean you have a white guy trying to be a balls-to-the-walls "gangsta" like Tony Montana or whatever and then you have maybe an equally arrogant character in Jericho that just super-over confident.

*Is it me, or does anyone else remember when Tag Team matches actually were a respected part of wrestler besides being used for weekly main events or whenever...you know, when there was a belt? Umm?

*Speaking of which, where is WWE going with this "Master Lock Challenge" stuff? From what I see, the man is a generic bland big-steroid-muscle freak like so many others in the business.

F me! I don't watch Raw last week or yesterday and I missed Hogan! Is he gonna be there again next week!???

WWE.com is reporting that Carlito will have a very special guest on the Cabana next week on RAW, and that guest happens to be the immortal Hulk Hogan.