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Why Tom?
#1012393
05/24/21 10:19 AM
05/24/21 10:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 70
Don_Alfonso
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From what I remember in the novel, Vito naming Tom the Family Consigliere ruffles a lot of feathers in the crime world, they take a serious blow in the respect department (as I recall, they're called the Irish Family or something by the other Families). Not only that, but to the underlings in the Family, the made guys, it had to be a slap in the face, especially in the 1940s when Italians and Irish people didn't get along. Also, imagine if you're Tessio say. You're smart. You've been with Vito almost as long as Genco was. This Irish lawyer kid gets a promotion that technically puts him above you in the pecking order.
It's a choice that's never made sense to me. Yes, Tom's savvy as a lawyer was extremely helpful, but I feel like they could've still exploited his skills without making him Consigliere. He doesn't really do much in the role, either - Sonny doesn't seem to take much of his counsel, for example, and Michael removes him as soon as he takes over. Even when Michael technically makes him Acting Boss, it's really only Acting Boss of the legitimate Nevada wing of the Family, not the crime family as a whole (presumably, Joey Zasa or someone else is given Frankie Five Angels' role as Street Boss of NY).
Last edited by Don_Alfonso; 05/24/21 10:20 AM.
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Re: Why Tom?
[Re: Don_Alfonso]
#1016507
07/21/21 12:02 AM
07/21/21 12:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755 Australia
Lana
The Hunted One
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The Hunted One
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Australia
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My take, for what it is worth! At the end of the day, the buck stops with Vito, the Don whether the Consigliere is Genco or Tom I don't think the underlinks, the made guys in Vito's crime family would have cared that Tom was made Consigliere [unlike perhaps when the Don's 'inexperienced' son Mikey took over the Donship] because they were all in the muscle-end which is considered the prestigious and vital arm! of the whole operation Sollozzo told Tom like Tom was small potatoes! I know you are not in the muscle-end of the family Tom so I don't want you to be scared However Sollozzo thought enough of Tom expecting Tom to make peace and make the narcotics deal Sonny did take Tom's counsel - - Sonny agreed to wait until Michael piped up “killing Pop is the key†and offered to kill both McCluskey and Sollozzo
- after Sonny's “Pop had Genco look what I got†Sonny apologised to Tom and did not go after Tattaglia
Michael removed Tom as Consigliere as Vito himself said because of Vito's advice “When Michael technically makes him [Tom] Acting Boss, it's really only Acting Boss of the legitimate Nevada wing of the Family†complete power over Fredo and his men [what men?!] Rocco, Neri everyone in Nevada because that was all what was required Also “who else was available?†same conundrum! as Vito's Consigliere candidates Besides the crime family was still being run by Pentangeli at that time “as Street Boss of NYâ€
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Re: Why Tom?
[Re: Evita]
#1017586
08/07/21 04:23 AM
08/07/21 04:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88 Adelaide, Australia
lucab19
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Rocco didn't like when he told get rid of the bodies wanted to know Where's Mike? He wasn't happy taking orders from Tom I think events happened so quickly that Michael didn't have time to tell anyone other than Tom of the new arrangement. Hence the "where's Michael?" Well, maybe Neri. Remember that during the Johnny Ola meeting, Rocco was given the (highly important) task of feeding Ola's men. That's a pretty clear pecking order.
Last edited by lucab19; 08/07/21 06:28 AM.
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Re: Why Tom?
[Re: lucab19]
#1017609
08/07/21 02:50 PM
08/07/21 02:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
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Rocco didn't like when he told get rid of the bodies wanted to know Where's Mike? He wasn't happy taking orders from Tom I think events happened so quickly that Michael didn't have time to tell anyone other than Tom of the new arrangement. Hence the "where's Michael?" Well, maybe Neri. Remember that during the Johnny Ola meeting, Rocco was given the (highly important) task of feeding Ola's men. That's a pretty clear pecking order. All good points. I've often wondered about Tom's relationship with Rocco and Neri. He was solid with Tess and Clem because he was raised by Vito as a son (they might have been like his uncles). Vito trusted Tom completely and had appointed him consigliere and made him his official go-between when handing down orders. But, Michael never really warmed to Tom--he was Sonny's choice for a brother, not Michael's; Vito's choice for consigliere, not Michael's. Michael fired him as consigliere in GF. And, just hours before the Tahoe shooting, Michael had introduced Tom to Johnny Ola as "my lawyer," and said Tom would not sit in on the Havana negotiations--a real humiliation. Rocco and Neri were the trusted parties for that deal. They probably had no respect for Tom because he was not Michael's consigliere, was not Italian, and hadn't come up from the muscle side of the business. And, as Luca pointed out, everything after the shooting happened so quickly that Rocco didn't even know where Michael was. So, we have to wonder: how if at all did Michael communicate that Tom would be in complete charge while he was away--and that they were to obey his orders as if Tom were Michael? It must have been especially tricky for Tom because, as Michael told him before leaving, he couldn't completely dismiss the possibility that Rocco and/or Neri were in on the shooting.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Why Tom?
[Re: Turnbull]
#1017923
08/13/21 12:06 AM
08/13/21 12:06 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755 Australia
Lana
The Hunted One
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The Hunted One
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 755
Australia
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Rocco didn't like when he told get rid of the bodies wanted to know Where's Mike? He wasn't happy taking orders from Tom I think events happened so quickly that Michael didn't have time to tell anyone other than Tom of the new arrangement. Hence the "where's Michael?" Well, maybe Neri. Remember that during the Johnny Ola meeting, Rocco was given the (highly important) task of feeding Ola's men. That's a pretty clear pecking order All good points. And, as Luca pointed out, everything after the shooting happened so quickly that Rocco didn't even know where Michael was So, we have to wonder: how if at all did Michael communicate that Tom would be in complete charge while he was away--and that they were to obey his orders as if Tom were Michael? It must have been especially tricky for Tom because, as Michael told him before leaving, he couldn't completely dismiss the possibility that Rocco and/or Neri were in on the shooting Rocco obeyed his orders after Tom's stern Rocco I believe Neri and Rocco would know if Tom was issuing orders that is because this authority had been vested on Tom by Michael himself Also Rocco would have been very, very scared how Rocco as the Security Chief had botched the security of the Tahoe compound fortress with sentry, armed guards, dogs etc. and how this security breach / lapse had allowed Rocco's boss, the Top Mafia Don's bedroom to be machine gun sprayed
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Re: Why Tom?
[Re: Turnbull]
#1018094
08/16/21 04:09 AM
08/16/21 04:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 323
Capri
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Capo
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I've often wondered about Tom's relationship with Rocco and Neri. He was solid with Tess and Clem because he was raised by Vito as a son (they might have been like his uncles). Vito trusted Tom completely and had appointed him consigliere and made him his official go-between when handing down orders. But, Michael never really warmed to Tom--he was Sonny's choice for a brother, not Michael's; Vito's choice for consigliere, not Michael's. Michael fired him as consigliere in GF. And, just hours before the Tahoe shooting, Michael had introduced Tom to Johnny Ola as "my lawyer," and said Tom would not sit in on the Havana negotiations--a real humiliation. Rocco and Neri were the trusted parties for that deal. They probably had no respect for Tom because he was not Michael's consigliere, was not Italian, and hadn't come up from the muscle side of the business.
Havana and $2M President gift already arranged Nothing for Roth Sicilian messenger boy to mention They obeyed his orders had Genco come up from the muscle side of the business?
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Re: Why Tom?
[Re: Don_Alfonso]
#1018096
08/16/21 05:29 AM
08/16/21 05:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,463 No. Virginia
mustachepete
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No. Virginia
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had Genco come up from the muscle side of the business? In the book, at least. He joined Vito and Luca on the visit to the bandleader.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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