GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 173 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 67,415
DE NIRO 44,945
J Geoff 31,285
Hollander 23,824
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,505
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,301
Posts1,058,226
Members10,349
Most Online796
Jan 21st, 2020
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
A misconception? #1007025
03/12/21 04:55 AM
03/12/21 04:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88
Adelaide, Australia
L
lucab19 Offline OP
Button
lucab19  Offline OP
L
Button
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88
Adelaide, Australia
One of the things I think people get wrong about the Solozzo-Michael sit down is that they suddenly start speaking English, In the presence of McCluskey, no less.

I believe this is wrong. Sure, we the viewers see this happen but it's just a device used by the director because this is the section of the conversation, indeed the only section of the conversation that he wants us to hear directly.

What do we see/hear?
Michael's imploring Solozzo: "What I want -- what's most important to me -- is that I have a guarantee: No more attempts on my father's life." Remember how he struggles to find the words, just as he did in the Italian section.

Then there's Solozzo's reply: "What guarantees could I give you ... You think too much of me, kid -- I'm not that clever ... " Especially the smug, self-satisfied way Solozzo delivers his reply. He really thinks Mike is a weakling and that he is going to crush him and his family. Of course we know exactly what is going to happen, and it just makes Solozzo's comeuppance that much more satisfying.

Also, I believe that if Michael had actually started speaking English Solozzo would have shut him down in an instant. Because of McCluskey. Sure, they're allies now but who's to say their relationship wouldn't sour in the future. (I realise this is moot given the outcome) It was Solozzo who decided they would speak Italian in the first place and it would be he who would decide otherwise.

This is a fairly common film device used by directors to show that the character is still speaking his native language, but the switch to English is simply a viewer aid. Two examples of major films involve Sean Connery in The Hunt for Red October, and Tom Cruise in Valkyrie.

Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1007031
03/12/21 09:38 AM
03/12/21 09:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,464
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
Special
mustachepete  Offline
Special
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,464
No. Virginia
You may be right. It's certainly a device that gets used in movies.

My own impression is that this is where Michael starts throwing off the passive role he's been handed. He's gotten into a car where he's outnumbered, endured a little pat on the shoulder from McCluskey, been frisked, and subjected to the Jersey maneuver. And he just had to sit and take it. So, switching to English is where he stops being passive, forces Sollozzo to yield a little control, and starts building the adrenaline he's going to need to kill the other two.

I don't think either of the Italians are giving McCluskey much consideration at this point. They've taken their measure of him, and decided that he has no personal force.

Last edited by mustachepete; 03/12/21 09:40 AM.

"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1007041
03/12/21 03:01 PM
03/12/21 03:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
Pete, I think that Michael's conversion to english was to further dramatize the murder scene for the audience. It allowed Michael a point of departure after hearing Sollozzo claim to be the hunted one and desire only a truce. Thus, the audience is informed that Michael 's suspicions about Sollozzo's intent are confirmed.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1007058
03/12/21 07:50 PM
03/12/21 07:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88
Adelaide, Australia
L
lucab19 Offline OP
Button
lucab19  Offline OP
L
Button
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88
Adelaide, Australia
Has there ever been a better piece of casting for a small but pivotal role than Al Lettieri as Virgil Solozzo?

Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1008887
04/02/21 05:54 PM
04/02/21 05:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 16
Bussetta Offline
Wiseguy
Bussetta  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 16
So I viewed this a little different. I just saw Michael switching to English because he could better articulate what he wanted to say.

And for context, I had a similar upbringing to Michael in that I was raised in the US by immigrants whose second language is English. So I spoke a mix of English and a second language, but my "native language" is English.

When I communicate with my parents, they switch between English and their native language back and forth in the middle of conversation.

Since Michael had to have a conversation in a language that didn't seem to be his "native language," I just thought he switched to English in this instance because it was easier for him.

There are a lot of times in the series that there is a mixing of languages, often in the middle of sentences, or just at the most random times (the first instance I can think of is when Michael and Pentangeli are having a conversation in Pentangeli's home and Michael says something about Roth: "He's gonna think our relationship is good, (something Italian)," which Pentangeli repeats.

Not sure if I'm going way off topic here, but it's one of the things I love about the movies, the immigrant experience and how Coppola uses language. It's very authentic to me, as someone who grew up with essentially two cultures.

(For the record I am not Italian so maybe I am completely off on all of this.)

Would love to hear others' thoughts about language and immigrant experiences as seen in the movie, etc.

Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1008889
04/02/21 06:39 PM
04/02/21 06:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,464
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
Special
mustachepete  Offline
Special
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,464
No. Virginia
Quote
I just saw Michael switching to English because he could better articulate what he wanted to say.


A related aspect is that he was recently punched in the mouth. In the book his jaw is wired. I'm not sure if that's so in the movie, but part of spitting out, "What I want.." seems to be that he's having trouble talking at all.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: A misconception? [Re: Bussetta] #1008931
04/03/21 03:58 PM
04/03/21 03:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
Originally Posted by Bussetta

Would love to hear others' thoughts about language and immigrant experiences as seen in the movie, etc.


In II, when young Vito comes through Immigration on Ellis Island, the officer asks his name. Vito doesn't answer, so another officer reads his name, "Vito Andolini from Corleone." The first guy says, "Vito Corleone. Next..." That's his name for the rest of his life.

That happened in the same kind of way in my family. My father's father was an immigrant. He had a polysyllabic last name, but the immigration officer heard only the first syllable--and that became our family name in America.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1008954
04/03/21 07:48 PM
04/03/21 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,371
L
Lou_Para Offline
Underboss
Lou_Para  Offline
L
Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,371
So many ethnic groups had similar experiences.Imagine having a name that your family lived under for generations back in your country of origin,only to have it legally changed and used on all your ID documents in America,because the Ellis Island staff was so busy that they didn't want to waste time getting it right. In the case of the Slave trade,the people who bought them at auction also had the right to name them.

Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1008971
04/03/21 10:48 PM
04/03/21 10:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 556
E
Evita Offline
Underboss
Evita  Offline
E
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 556
I also know of immigrants with polysyllabic last names who chose to Anglicize their names for convenience

Re: A misconception? [Re: lucab19] #1009062
04/05/21 12:27 PM
04/05/21 12:27 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
Underboss
The Last Woltz  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
Somehow, a nickname one of my ancestors had in the old country became my great-grandmother's family name here in America.

One benefit is that I've actually twice realized that new acquaintances were actually distant cousins, since we know anyone with that name must be related.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"

Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™