On screen, we have the dead woman with Senator Geary and the woman who's machine-gunned with Cuneo.

It has to be taken as a given that nearly everything these families are doing are being done to civilians. That's where the money comes into the system, and one way or another it's coming in by violence or threat of violence. The occasional fighting among the families is just squabbling over who gets what piece of that pie.

Exactly Pete. Of course, in the novel an olive oil producer disappears as a result of Vito's efforts to control that business.

For the answer for Danny aiello's line
here it is right from the man himself

https://youtu.be/Q_QVt_JCS54

You are right!

There is “the dead woman with Senator Geary and the woman who's machine-gunned with Cuneo”

I was thinking
1. the Geary compromise was Tom's strategy – atoning for not digging deep enough about Geary's true intentions
2. the woman with Cuneo [innocent victim] happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time

Nevertheless you are absolutely right! No justification whatsoever

“It has to be taken as a given that nearly everything these families [including Michael] are doing are being done to civilians”

Then wonder why is it deemed
1. Vito was a better Don than Michael?
2. Vito kept the family together but Michael destroyed it. How so?

[Vito's bonus! an old fashioned traditional wife, Carmela]

Talking about Michael, Kay and their children, got me thinking about Vito, Carmela and their children and family man Vito's role as father!

Among others,
1. Vito knew Sonny was being unfaithful to his wife Sandra but didn't discipline Sonny to stop the infidelity just “a man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man” and when Sonny shooting off his mouth at Sollozzo's drugs meeting “Sonny's brain is going soft from all that comedy he was playing with that young girl”
2. Vito's perhaps lack of foresight and 'antagonising' the new son-in-law, Carlo by telling Tom “never to give Carlo something important, a living but never discuss the Family business with him”
3. Vito doing nothing, no father-in-law/son-in-law talk, about Carlo's abuse of his daughter Connie [old school not interfering? – not good enough!]
4. Vito's inaction regarding Connie's abuse resulted in Sonny's involvement, the hot headed Sonny's public beating of Carlo and Sonny's ultimate death
5. Vito's dismissal of Fredo “And Fredo....well, Fredo was....well” was somewhat disparaging [after Vito's return from the hospital, Fredo came back alone to Vito's bedroom but was completely ignored by Vito who was upset at Michael's involvement in killing McCluskey and Sollozzo]
6. Surely Vito was aware that Fredo was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time! that Fredo was being slapped and straightened out in public by Moe Greene and Fredo took Greene's side against the family in Las Vegas
7. If Fredo is weak and stupid to be Don perhaps giving Fredo at least a face saving role in the family to show that Fredo is valued in his own right
8. Vito left a murderous legacy for “I never wanted this for you” son Michael
9. Vito shut Carmela out of business too, starting with when he went into the bathroom and closed the door on her after receiving the bundle of guns from Clemenza

Ref: thread Did anyoneelse notice that Godfather II flashback scene - Vito's surprise birthday party
post by user The Last Woltz on 29 August 2016

Extract:

Spot on! Woltz
So true Vito was able to hold the “very disparate group of people together” I believe solely because and of utmost importance - everyone unequivocally accepted Vito as the undisputed head of the family, no matter what

Among others,
1. At Connie's wedding, everyone had gathered posing and the photographer was about to take the 'family' photo when Vito suddenly stops it because Michael wasn't there Everybody including Carmela not necessarily agreeing but unequivocally accepting what Vito had just done
2. Connie said to Michael [unwilling to believe that Vito could had anything to do with it] Michael waited until Vito died to murder Carlo even though “everyone blamed Carlo for Sonny's death”
3. Connie would never have treated Vito so insolently as she treated Michael at Anthony's party
4. Fredo would never have done, what he did to Michael [kid brother] 'betrayal' to Vito [father] or even Sonny [older brother]
5. Carmela would never have done, what Kay did to Michael 'abortion' to Vito

As long as Anthony is not trans-genered. Doneete Connie was enough for me in GFIII.

Tiger by the tail

Since there's no topic under which I can post this, I'm posting it here.

In AHC's Mafia's Greatest Hits series, it's related that the Gallo brothers, following Joe Profaci's order, attempted to strangle a guy in a bar. However, the attempt was interrupted by the appearance of a policeman. Ring any bells?

I had never read of this attempt anywhere including on this Board. Could it be the basis for the similar scene in GFII?

Why did Kay leave the children in the unholy and evil environment?

That is a great question, Lana

My two cents worth!

Michael and Kay, sentiments aside....

Michael had already told Kay, very clearly, he won't let her take the children from him that it is an impossibility
Even after that she tells him about the 'abortion' the murder of their unborn child as if

I reckon Kay, a mother, was totally irresponsible to leave the children in the unholy and evil environment, she was escaping from, with the father who is 'blind' to everything other than business

She was unholy and evil too

Kay should have at least taken up the second chance Michael offered and tried to salvage the situation for the sake of their children

[Vito's bonus! an old fashioned traditional wife, Carmela] What a nice pear!
Carmela would never have done, what Kay did to Michael 'abortion' to Vito

Kay became Michael's horror

Michael and Kay became each other horror both paying dearly, deeply the murder of their daughter

Kay was part of the same hypocrisy the business she had chosen Biggest hypocrite
She had the choice not to marry into murderous crime family

I struggle with this too that Michael is Vito without the heart because Carmela was the heart "you can never lose your family" and Times are changing

I reckon Vito gets a pass because of the way he is cleverly portrayed, compared to Michael and others
He too was a cold blooded murderer despite his outward nice guy appearances!

He was interfering / destroying innocent people's legitimate business and lives because they won't comply with his demands like his threat of lethal force even in such simple business as the release of his Godson's contract shows where Michael got his cold bloodedness!
The band leader built up Fontane's career but he couldn't benefit when his client became a star

“Look how they massacred my boy...What about the gruesome murders of other families' boys

I reckon Puzo and Coppola cleverly make Vito look justified but he is as guilty as others of committing horrendous acts, cold blooded murders, destroying families

I feel at times Vito is seen through rose-coloured glasses as perhaps because the way Vito is romanticized and portrayed

My take, for what it is worth!

Vito was slipping!

among others, complacent, out of touch, underestimating his main rival Barzini, the puppet master, who was playing the Corleones like a fiddle, hiding behind Tattaglia [who was later dismissed as a pimp] until the peace meeting

Vito was instrumental, contributed and caused -

Vito knew Santino was a bad Don yet if Santino had not been killed he would have still become the Don

Vito knew Tom was not a wartime consiglieri yet Vito made Tom, good lawyer, not a Sicilian, the consiglieri albeit in 'peace' time

Vito's dismissal of Fredo “And Fredo, well, Fredo was, well...” yet Vito did not pay attention or nurture Fredo to at least make Fredo feel he was playing an important role in the family business

This failure of Vito, made Fredo resent, jealous etc. towards Michael, Fredo's kid brother, so much so that Fredo turned traitor and arguably conspired Michael's murder to take over the Donship

Vito had such contempt for Carlo yet he allowed Carlo and Connie's marriage to go ahead
Vito giving Carlo just a living “Never [give Carlo something important] Give him a living but never discuss the Family business with him”

This failure of Vito, made the low life parasite, wife beater, resent so much so that Carlo was beating Connie even when she was pregnant and setting Santino up to be murdered albeit revenge for Santino's public beating and humiliation of Carlo which may not have happened if Carlo had been given something important

All true.

Plus, Vito made near fatal mistake when he sent Luca on a ridiculous mission to try to convince Tattaglia that he (Luca) was thinking about quitting the Corleones:
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/u...p;Words=armor&Search=true#Post444618

Ref: Vito's slipup [Thanks Turnbull for the link]
Wow! so many threads! There isn't enough time!

Both Vito's consiglieri Tom and Vito's underboss Santino were “totally in the dark” had no idea Vito had sent Luca to Tattaglias thus to Luca's death

Spot on! “And Vito handed Luca, Vito's one-man murder machine to Sollozzo on a silver platter:”

The film misleads us about that. In the novel, Luca's interaction with the Tattaglias took months before he met with Sollozzo. His mission was to find out what he could about Sollozzo's plans. After months with little progress, Vito told Luca to keep trying, but only as a sideline.

Luca made it clear to the Tattagials that he would never oppose Vito. The night of the meeting, Luca donned a bulletproof vest and a cold pistol in case he could dispatch Sollozzo at the meeting. So, Luca realized the risk and was prepared.

and killing of Khartoum for his Godson's movie part

I put this here: