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I have an interesting question for everybody #1012881
05/31/21 04:59 PM
05/31/21 04:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,943
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NYMafia Offline OP
NYMafia  Offline OP

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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,943
Of all the many bookmakers, numbers guys, and other top illegal gamblers who have operated across America over the years, who in your mind was the most successful, professional, and became among the wealthiest in that field of endeavor?

It doesn't have to be an Italian mafioso or wiseguy per se. He could be Jewish, Irish, German, Japanese, or any other ethnicity. In L.A., Chicago, or the east coast. Doesn't matter.

Who was among the very best engaging in that racket?

I'll allow you to pick two of your absolute top choices. Who were they? Or him?

Let's see who forum members pick. I'm curious as to how others think about this.

Last edited by NYMafia; 05/31/21 05:26 PM.
Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012900
05/31/21 08:00 PM
05/31/21 08:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,943
N
NYMafia Offline OP
NYMafia  Offline OP

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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,943
Doesn't anyone have any names of top gamblers you are familiar with who fall into this category?

After all, this is supposed to be a mob and racket forum no? So there must be plenty of names who possibly fall into this category I've mentioned.

Name a few. Take a stab at it

Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012901
05/31/21 08:27 PM
05/31/21 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 52
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I_Sell_Dem_Tomatoes Offline
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I_Sell_Dem_Tomatoes  Offline
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There was a period where all illegal bookies in the nation had to subscribe to a "legal" wire service in order to get real-time betting results
Every single illegal bookie across America couldn't operate successfully without paying tribute

Whoever controlled the wire services, likely can be thought to have dominated influence in illegal gambling across America during that time period as well

Moses “Moe” Annenberg's Nationwide News was the largest wire service in the country during the 1930s with 28 offices across the US
In 1940 Moe was eventually sent to 3 years prison with a fine of $8 million ($150 million in 2021) which was "the largest single tax fraud penalty in history" at the time
A hint into the fortune up for grabs by controlling the wire service

Nationwide News was rebranded as Continental by founder Arthur B. Mickey McBride and managed by James Ragen
James Ragen was eventually murdered in 1947 which may have meant Continental was successfully muscled in on

TransAmerica was another big wire service with a hard history to make sense of, but definitely controlled by the Mob

Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012903
05/31/21 08:38 PM
05/31/21 08:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,891
ralphie_cifaretto Offline
Underboss
ralphie_cifaretto  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,891
Meyer Lansky probably made the most money, but he couldn't show much of it. His close friend Hy Larner was massive as well.

I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: I_Sell_Dem_Tomatoes] #1012904
05/31/21 08:48 PM
05/31/21 08:48 PM
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Posts: 52
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I_Sell_Dem_Tomatoes Offline
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Here's a Organized Crime Control Commission report that states the Outfit began to muscle in on Continental as soon as 1940
It also states:
Continental was eventually taken over by "the East Coast Syndicate"
Bugsy may have been murdered because he wouldn't shutdown TransAmerica whenever the Mob already gained control of Continental and Nationwide

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/79411NCJRS.pdf

Last edited by I_Sell_Dem_Tomatoes; 05/31/21 08:48 PM.
Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012905
05/31/21 08:48 PM
05/31/21 08:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,061
212-n-305
CNote Offline
Brooklyn Bum
CNote  Offline
Brooklyn Bum
Underboss
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Posts: 1,061
212-n-305
Lefty Rosenthal comes to mind and of course Bugsy Seigel.

Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012908
05/31/21 09:03 PM
05/31/21 09:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 3,054
Giacalone Offline
Underboss
Giacalone  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 3,054
Lansky


But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way
Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012949
06/01/21 08:04 AM
06/01/21 08:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,943
N
NYMafia Offline OP
NYMafia  Offline OP

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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,943
Aside from guys like the legendary Moe Dalitz who parlayed their careers into casino ownership, or the Lansky brothers who did the same thing, I was thinking more along the lines of individual gamblers who ran separate gambling operations.

A 'Jimmy Nap' Napoli falls into this category because he ran a huge numbers business, etc.

For my money, one of the most unique guys I have run across in my studies was a fellow named Joseph Mastronardo, aka "Joe Vito"

Not a mob-connected gambler per se, or a otherwise street savvy hoodlum who dealt in other rackets as well, Joe Vito was a martian from space dropped into the gambling underworld who was revolutionary in his methods.

I just posted up his biography if anyone cares to read it.

Last edited by NYMafia; 06/01/21 08:05 AM.
Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012959
06/01/21 10:04 AM
06/01/21 10:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 116
F
faffy444 Offline
Made Member
faffy444  Offline
F
Made Member
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Posts: 116
while it isn't America, the RIZZUTO bookmaking ring in Montreal was doing an alleged $100 million a month in bets in or around 2010.

Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012960
06/01/21 10:09 AM
06/01/21 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,185
ne philly
merlino Offline
jesus quintana
merlino  Offline
jesus quintana
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,185
ne philly
Originally Posted by NYMafia
Aside from guys like the legendary Moe Dalitz who parlayed their careers into casino ownership, or the Lansky brothers who did the same thing, I was thinking more along the lines of individual gamblers who ran separate gambling operations.

A 'Jimmy Nap' Napoli falls into this category because he ran a huge numbers business, etc.

For my money, one of the most unique guys I have run across in my studies was a fellow named Joseph Mastronardo, aka "Joe Vito"

Not a mob-connected gambler per se, or a otherwise street savvy hoodlum who dealt in other rackets as well, Joe Vito was a martian from space dropped into the gambling underworld who was revolutionary in his methods.

I just posted up his biography if anyone cares to read it.


Very good stuff in the article thank you

Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1012962
06/01/21 10:40 AM
06/01/21 10:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 931
Word Wide
MolochioInduced Offline
Underboss
MolochioInduced  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 931
Word Wide
Arnold Rothstein he did rig the 1919 World Series, Hyman Roth loved him ever since lol

Vic Controni seemed to have a real hold on Montreal, didn’t he take over from a Jewsish gangster, similar to Lucania?


In Sicily, women are more dangerous than the shotgun.
Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: MolochioInduced] #1012971
06/01/21 03:28 PM
06/01/21 03:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487
AZ
When Sen. Estes Kefauver closed his two-year investigation of organized crime in America (1950-51), he named Abner "Longy" Zwillman as America's top gambling czar. I'd add Arnold Rothstein, although he was also into opium smuggling. Rothstein had immense political power.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1013004
06/02/21 06:21 AM
06/02/21 06:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,724
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
Underboss
Giacomo_Vacari  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,724
Larry's Bar
1. Moe Dalitz
2. Meyer Lansky

These two also had casinos and gambling boats in other countries. They made a lot of people money which allowed them to die of old age and not in the gutter. There are many and I can think of another two dozen guys who would be up there, but in terms of accomplishments and money plus their failures they don't come close except for Milton Rockman, Frank Costello, Anthony Accardo and Tony Salerno but still below those two guys.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: I have an interesting question for everybody [Re: NYMafia] #1013034
06/02/21 04:33 PM
06/02/21 04:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
L
Louiebynochi Offline
Banned
Louiebynochi  Offline
Banned
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
The Pisacano brothers from Harlem who are w the Westside


A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/

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