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3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

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Business or personal? #1000685
11/30/20 04:06 PM
11/30/20 04:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,485
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

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When Michael arrived at the Compound following Vito's shooting, he advised Sonny to "wait" before declaring war on Tattaglia and Solozzo. But, after visiting the hospital, finding no bodyguards for Vito, and having his jaw broken by McCluskey, he changed his tune: "You can't wait," and volunteered to kill both. Sonny jocularly accused Michael of taking " very, very personal," but Michael replied, deadly serious, that "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business." End of discussion.

Do you think Michael's change of mind was personal? Or business?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1000687
11/30/20 05:43 PM
11/30/20 05:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,463
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
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mustachepete  Offline
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No. Virginia
It's one of the weirder little changes from book to movie, isn't it? In the book, Michael says everything's personal, in the movie it's strictly business. I guess one way to square it is to note that in the novel Michael is saying what he's learned from Vito, and that it might not reflect what Michael feels in his gut.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1000690
11/30/20 07:15 PM
11/30/20 07:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino Offline
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Dob_Peppino  Offline
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Interesting observation. He definitely did take it personal. I haven't read the book in alot of years but of course the movie is vivid in my mind like I saw it yesterday. The "strictly business" line is better movie line for sure and its genuine to real CN but they didn't really explore who, mentally how he got to that 'understanding' of the life. Obviously being a military man he understood strategy and powerplays but the "mafia mentality" is very specific thought process, they delved into alittle when Vito had the "Traitor" conversation with Michael


"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1000820
12/03/20 10:22 AM
12/03/20 10:22 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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The Last Woltz  Offline
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"Business or personal" always seemed like a false dichotomy to me. They're always intertwined.

He steered his business interests to follow his personal desire for (his vision of) legitimacy. But it still was good business.

He killed his brother out of anger ("He injured me."). But that probably helped him in business, burnishing his fearsome reputation.

The same applies here. He was angry and terrified that his father might be murdered. He wanted to get McCluskey back for breaking his jaw. So, in that sense it was personal. But it was also the best move strategically. They did need to kill the Turk and there seemed to be no other way than for Michael to do it himself.

To me, Michael was successful because he was able to use his personal motivations to improve his business.

Last edited by The Last Woltz; 12/03/20 10:23 AM.

"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1000825
12/03/20 11:57 AM
12/03/20 11:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,018
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Posts: 15,018
Texas
Woltz, you hit the nail on the head. They are intertwined; it's like the chicken or the egg. Which leads to which? For me, it's always personal. Ambition, fear, desire, joy, sorrow. In the end it's all personal


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Business or personal? [Re: olivant] #1000841
12/03/20 11:28 PM
12/03/20 11:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,485
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

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You could say that it was a combination of personal and business. In the passage from the novel Pete referenced, Michael said that Vito's taking everything personally ("He knows every feather falling from the tail of every swallow...and no accidents happen to people who take everything personally," or something like that) was the key to his greatness, and thus his effectiveness.

In the movie, I believe Michael's decision was personal and business. Personal maybe partly because he wanted to avenge himself on Mac, but more, I think, because he had a personal epiphany in the hospital: When he said, "I'm with you now, Pop," I (and many others here) believe he meant more than just physical proximity to his father. He was deciding to become an integral part of the family business.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1001048
12/08/20 01:03 PM
12/08/20 01:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,018
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,018
Texas
Originally Posted by Turnbull


In the movie, I believe Michael's decision was personal and business. Personal maybe partly because he wanted to avenge himself on Mac, but more, I think, because he had a personal epiphany in the hospital: When he said, "I'm with you now, Pop," I (and many others here) believe he meant more than just physical proximity to his father. He was deciding to become an integral part of the family business.



I seldom disagree with you TB, but I do about the hospital scene.

Both the novel and the movie (less so than the novel, but equally so if one views the deleted scenes), make the point that Michael was estranged from his father, at least from his father's direction. When he told Vito in the hospital that he was with him, he was telling him that he, AS A SON, was with him. He was not telling Vito that he was with him as a prospective mafioso ready to take part in the family business.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1001059
12/08/20 05:46 PM
12/08/20 05:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
whisper Offline
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whisper  Offline
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Posts: 4,539
My own world.
I always thought (In the movie) Michaels's reply is almost making fun of the "It's strictly business" axiom always said to him...at that point.

Like of course it's personal. Michael see's the hypocrisy, even in his brother Santino taking it personal (Arguing with Tom) Sonny mocks Michael a little bit, and being hypocritical himself.

So Michael's reply is matching his brothers' tone back to him.


The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
Re: Business or personal? [Re: whisper] #1001385
12/15/20 02:30 AM
12/15/20 02:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,568
Over Here < < in TX
U talkin' da me ?? Offline
Shiny Brass
U talkin' da me ??  Offline
Shiny Brass
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Over Here < < in TX
Originally Posted by whisper
I always thought (In the movie) Michaels's reply is almost making fun of the "It's strictly business" axiom always said to him...at that point.

Like of course it's personal. Michael see's the hypocrisy, even in his brother Santino taking it personal (Arguing with Tom) Sonny mocks Michael a little bit, and being hypocritical himself.

So Michael's reply is matching his brothers' tone back to him.


I like your take on it whisper..


"It's nothing personal, Sonny....... It's strictly business."


Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1003578
01/23/21 01:37 AM
01/23/21 01:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 750
Australia
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Lana Offline
The Hunted One
Lana  Offline
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Posts: 750
Australia
among others -

I too think every action [eg: the key is to kill Pop] or non-action [eg: no enquiries regarding Sonny's murder] - immediate or later, biding the right time to strike is both personal and business

Sure thing Personal and business “always intertwined” the “combination of personal and business” “was the key to [both Vito and Michael] greatness, and thus their effectiveness”

That's why the Corleones' strategy was so great and effective! Keeping the enemies close, confident and relaxed Surprise element

  • What would your take be?
If Tom hadn't turned up when he did ie: Michael had already been taken in by the Police Captain McCluskey and there was nobody around

What can the Corleone man, Detective Phillips do? Phillips would let the Corleones know about Michael's ride in the paddy wagon but what can Sonny do?

Michael was a dead man Michael would be worked over and disappeared altogether Michael's body never found

McCluskey would say he knows nothing never saw Michael
Who is going to dispute the New York Police Captain Anyway nothing could come out it

Vito was sick even if Tom managed to arrange the private detectives to guard Vito in the hospital What can Vito do same as Sonny

Nobody had ever messed with the New York Police captain before....!

Re: Business or personal? [Re: Lana] #1003580
01/23/21 02:31 AM
01/23/21 02:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,485
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

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Posts: 19,485
AZ
I think McCluskey was done with Michael after he broke his jaw. I don't think he intended to arrest him. No need to, in McCluskey's mind.
But, if he'd been arrested for the murder of Mac and Sol, Michael would have been a dead man before he reached a police station or a court--"killed resisting arrest" or some such euphemism. Happened all the time in NYC in the Forties.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Business or personal? [Re: Turnbull] #1003732
01/26/21 01:17 AM
01/26/21 01:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 750
Australia
L
Lana Offline
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Lana  Offline
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Underboss
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Australia
Thanks Turnbull makes sense

Re: Business or personal? [Re: olivant] #1005621
02/19/21 06:43 PM
02/19/21 06:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88
Adelaide, Australia
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lucab19 Offline
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lucab19  Offline
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Button
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Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted by olivant
When he told Vito in the hospital that he was with him, he was telling him that he, AS A SON, was with him. He was not telling Vito that he was with him as a prospective mafioso ready to take part in the family business.


I hear him as saying "I'm with you now" with emphasis on the "I'm". As in not these useless clowns who all managed to get themselves arrested. It's a son reassuring his father and has nothing to do with future mob activities. It was strictly in the here and now.


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