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Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998209
10/14/20 04:00 AM
10/14/20 04:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,724
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Giacomo_Vacari  Offline
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Larry's Bar
clap
Well done BF.
I recommend the mods lock this up.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: BlackFamily] #998210
10/14/20 04:13 AM
10/14/20 04:13 AM
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ColonelReb Offline
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Originally Posted by BlackFamily
" Hope & pray they take Columbus Day off the calender"

Of course you do. It will accomplish about as much as tearing an old ass statue down

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: ColonelReb] #998213
10/14/20 08:39 AM
10/14/20 08:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,941
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NYMafia Offline OP
NYMafia  Offline OP

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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,941
Originally Posted by ColonelReb
Originally Posted by BlackFamily
" Hope & pray they take Columbus Day off the calender"

Of course you do. It will accomplish about as much as tearing an old ass statue down

----
I agree with you on that Colonel. As many have said and I do agree, tearing down a statue doesn't change history or erase history. Let's all learn from history. Lets move forward so we as a people can get to a higher ground. But not deny history.

That is unfair to the generations of kids who come after us. How do the children learn what was what, if we change history in an attempt to "clean it up"?

For that matter our first president George Washington was said to own slaves in his lifetime. Do we take down all his statues? Do we write him out of the history books? Do we erase his image from our currency? Do we cancel Washington's Birthday? Of course not, that would be preposterous. Actions like that would deny history.

For that matter Ulysses S. Grant and other great generals and public figures of the United States had slaves as well.

So if we are not taking those actions against the likes of Washington, Grant, and other famous people of those early American eras, why target Columbus?

It is unfair! If you are going to cancel Columbus, then let's cancel them all!.... In fact maybe we should call in all the history books ever written and rewrite history as we would like to see it.... where does it stop is what I'm asking?

---
I do agree with G. Vicari on one thing, maybe its best this entire thread be shut down because its getting way out of hand. It was never meant to stir up all this controversy, or to be divisive. Let's live and let live. God bless everybody. No harm No foul..... we all have different views and opinions, and I for one respect everybody's right to express those opinions in a gentlemanly way. As I stated before thats the whole idea of America correct? TO be able to be ourselves. Let's all strive for that. Peace out






Last edited by NYMafia; 10/14/20 03:41 PM.
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998216
10/14/20 08:59 AM
10/14/20 08:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
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Lenox Offline
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Lenox  Offline
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I guess we erase everything the romans and the greeks contributed because they owned slaves. I guess we erase everything the egyptians have done because they owned slaves. By the way, both the romans and greeks were also enslaved at one time or another. The muslims owned slaves, as did the jews and every other civilization including the vikings, they were primitive times. Although slavery still exists today in Africa but no one wants to mention that because it doesnt fit a specific narrative. I guess black lives dont matter in Africa, black lives only matter when a criminal is resisting arrest.
Back to Colombus, he may have done some bad things that were “ normal for the time period”, he did so much good and contributed so much.

Last edited by Lenox; 10/14/20 09:04 AM.
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998217
10/14/20 09:03 AM
10/14/20 09:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
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RollinBones Offline
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Originally Posted by NYMafia
Originally Posted by RollinBones
Originally Posted by NYMafia
You have your "Indigenous" rights because of the written constitution of this great country, which was developed after it got its start on day #1 from those brave sailors of the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria.
lol Wow

The same Constitution that considered Black people to be 3/5 of a person?

Columbus was a savage himself. Pure and simple. The list of Italians that are far more deserving of the type of recognition Columbus receives is a mile long. I'm part Italian and have no problem admitting this, because I don't tie my pride of my heritage to a single figure.


----
Rolling bones, this is getting silly now. Our constitution is not perfect, nor is our country. But I dare say that you still fair better here than ANY other country in the world. If you don't think so, then go try and get a taste of another country and see. We have come a long way baby, but admittedly have a long journey still ahead of us to make a "more" perfect union.

I don't know if you are aware of our history (since you are part Italian), but although maybe not to the degree that blacks were, did you know that Italians in this country faced HUGE prejudice. Do you know how many times Italians were lynched in this country just like blacks were? Do you even know that nearly ALL newspapers and periodicals across the country at one times referred to Italians as "non-white" and as "worse than blacks"? The New York Times, etc.and other major periodicals.

In fact we were considered "black", and "worse than the negro" which was actual phrases repeatedly written in major daily's. We had NO rights. For many years in fact.

So don't blame Columbus, or any other Italian for slavery or any other atrocities committed to Blacks, Jews, Chinese, Spanish, etc.... because the Italian people (your Italian people) stood in the front of the line for kicks in the ass, and a rope around their necks!
-
And FYI, my Italian identify is not solely tied to Columbus but a whole host of Italians and our history dating back to antiquity. Columbus is but one such name I am proud of. As far as "savage" ? Lol.... you've been brainwashed by all this current "political correctness" thats so popular nowadays. I think (I can just feel) that I'm a bit older than you. And I come from a different mindset and viewpoint. Your views are fine and you are entitled to them as I said to BF. They're just not mine.

I know I will never change your outlook, its too engrained in you. (I'm not even trying to).

Let's agree to disagree thats all. Ok? At the end of the day "it is what it is" as the man said.

Good night.



Yes I know the history of Anti-Italian discrimination in America, that wasn't excusable or acceptable just like many of Columbus' actions weren't. One doesn't cancel out the other. I also know our Constitution isn't perfect, which is why I found it funny that you credited it with providing rights that wouldn't need providing if it wasn't for colonization in the first place.
It's interesting to me that you think I'm brainwashed by the "political correctness" of today, because these sentiments about Columbus are hardly anything new. The "Christopher" episode of The Sopranos that explores this topic is almost 20 years old at this point, and these are conversations that have been happening for longer than that. Just because it's new to you, doesn't mean it's new to everybody. The guy was a slave trader at the end of the day, was hardly even a competent explorer or "colonial governor", and wasn't as popular as you make it seem he was back in those days. That's why he was removed his post in Hispaniola at one point and forcibly sent back to Spain. I have no illusions about who this man was, but like I said, people tie their own personal self-worth to things like this so when challenged, they can't see it any other way. I see it in the older Italians every year, they take anything except praise for Columbus personally because the holiday is like an unofficial Italian-American day, but we have many figures more worthy of that recognition, whose reputations are not questionable at best.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998218
10/14/20 09:08 AM
10/14/20 09:08 AM
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Posts: 1,147
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Lenox Offline
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If there wasnt a Christopher Colombus, many of us wouldnt be in America today. Thats a fact. America would be called something else and wouldnt be the power it is today nor would it be th innovator it is today. Christopher Colombus was extremely brave, intelligent, forward thinking, and took on a huge risk for the betterment of mankind. That should be celebrated.
I think part of the problem is some people dont have a national or ethnic hero to celebrate so they attempt to eliminate the accomplishments of others. Think about that.

Last edited by Lenox; 10/14/20 09:12 AM.
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #998219
10/14/20 09:31 AM
10/14/20 09:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino Offline
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Dob_Peppino  Offline
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Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
clap

I recommend the mods lock this up.

I agree. These types of conversations go no where. Every race has been done wrong. But some of the things I've read here are disingenuous. I just find it ironic, that all these other races that has "been through similar things as blacks" particularly Asians, Italians/Other European cultures don't (in most cases) relate or empathize (not sympathy which is different) with the blacks. It's interesting. But anyway. The thread should be ended by the Mods.


"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Lenox] #998220
10/14/20 09:32 AM
10/14/20 09:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 712
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RollinBones Offline
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Originally Posted by Lenox
If there wasnt a Christopher Colombus, many of us wouldnt be in America today. Thats a fact. America would be called something else and wouldnt be the power it is today nor would it be th innovator it is today. Christopher Colombus was extremely brave, intelligent, forward thinking, and took on a huge risk for the betterment of mankind. That should be celebrated.
I think part of the problem is some people dont have a national or ethnic hero to celebrate so they attempt to eliminate the accomplishments of others. Think about that.

You know Columbus never actually set foot in what is now the USA, right?

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Dob_Peppino] #998221
10/14/20 09:39 AM
10/14/20 09:39 AM
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Lenox Offline
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Lenox  Offline
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Originally Posted by Dob_Peppino
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
clap

I recommend the mods lock this up.

I agree. These types of conversations go no where. Every race has been done wrong. But some of the things I've read here are disingenuous. I just find it ironic, that all these other races that has "been through similar things as blacks" particularly Asians, Italians/Other European cultures don't (in most cases) relate or empathize (not sympathy which is different) with the blacks. It's interesting. But anyway. The thread should be ended by the Mods.


I do have sympothy for the blacks, particularly black children since the majority of black children are born out of wedlock and have no fathers. Who is to blame, the missing in action fathers or the mothers who dont care about bringing a child into an environment with stability?
There are big time issues with the black culture that seem to be accepted and it shouldnt be.
I see a lot of immigrants from india for example who come to this country with no money and without speaking our language but yet their children excel and dont get involved with violent crime and irrespinsible thug culture. You know why? Strong family values.
Children dont need wealth, they need love and stability. You dont get the stability part from a 19 or 20 year old black girl.
You slash the out of wedlock birth rate in the black community by 50%, the problems such as violence and incarceration go down by 50%.
The out of wedlock birth rate in the black community is almost 75%, thats absolutely ridiculous and there is no excuse for that in the year 2020.

Last edited by Lenox; 10/14/20 09:48 AM.
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Dob_Peppino] #998223
10/14/20 10:12 AM
10/14/20 10:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,941
N
NYMafia Offline OP
NYMafia  Offline OP

N

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8,941
Originally Posted by Dob_Peppino
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
clap

I recommend the mods lock this up.

I agree. These types of conversations go no where. Every race has been done wrong. But some of the things I've read here are disingenuous. I just find it ironic, that all these other races that has "been through similar things as blacks" particularly Asians, Italians/Other European cultures don't (in most cases) relate or empathize (not sympathy which is different) with the blacks. It's interesting. But anyway. The thread should be ended by the Mods.


I for one do empathize with them. very much. But thats for another conversation.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998224
10/14/20 10:13 AM
10/14/20 10:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino Offline
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Dob_Peppino  Offline
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Posts: 615
@Lenox
See this guy gonna draw me into the mudslinging..... I leave it with what One of our great fictional mob boss once said "WHY DON'T YOU STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW AND LEAVE YOUR OPINIONS, WHEREVER THE FUCK....."

Last edited by Dob_Peppino; 10/14/20 10:14 AM.

"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Lenox] #998231
10/14/20 01:08 PM
10/14/20 01:08 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,005
Mississippi - 662
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BlackFamily Online content
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BlackFamily  Online Content
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Underboss
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,005
Mississippi - 662
Originally Posted by Lenox
Originally Posted by Dob_Peppino
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
clap

I recommend the mods lock this up.

I agree. These types of conversations go no where. Every race has been done wrong. But some of the things I've read here are disingenuous. I just find it ironic, that all these other races that has "been through similar things as blacks" particularly Asians, Italians/Other European cultures don't (in most cases) relate or empathize (not sympathy which is different) with the blacks. It's interesting. But anyway. The thread should be ended by the Mods.


I do have sympothy for the blacks, particularly black children since the majority of black children are born out of wedlock and have no fathers. Who is to blame, the missing in action fathers or the mothers who dont care about bringing a child into an environment with stability?
There are big time issues with the black culture that seem to be accepted and it shouldnt be.
I see a lot of immigrants from india for example who come to this country with no money and without speaking our language but yet their children excel and dont get involved with violent crime and irrespinsible thug culture. You know why? Strong family values.
Children dont need wealth, they need love and stability. You dont get the stability part from a 19 or 20 year old black girl.
You slash the out of wedlock birth rate in the black community by 50%, the problems such as violence and incarceration go down by 50%.
The out of wedlock birth rate in the black community is almost 75%, thats absolutely ridiculous and there is no excuse for that in the year 2020.


Right on cue without missing a beat.
Fergie , Belmont, Aces , & blueracing347 must be close friends of yours .


If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't spend the night with a mosquito.
- African Proverb
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998240
10/14/20 03:20 PM
10/14/20 03:20 PM
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Posts: 903
blueracing347 Offline
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blueracing347  Offline
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Here we go. BF is instigating. There are many problems existing this very moment that need fixingb within low income communities. Tearing down statues, rioting, and getting rid of recognized days of people from the past will not solve those problems. Blazing others for your misfortune is weak. Then again, if that's the kind of environment you were raised in, you might not know any better. Good luck, and maybe one day we'll get to celebrate a Tupac/Biggie Day. But, be careful what you wish for. "Mo MONEY, MO PROBLEMS" Notorious B.I.G.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998245
10/14/20 05:17 PM
10/14/20 05:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,147
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Lenox Offline
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Lenox  Offline
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Before we close this up, you mean to tell me Colombus statues should be torn down because he killed some indians in the 1400’s despite discovering the new world and creating great opportunites for mankind ?
But its acceptable to leave a statue of Kobe Bryant who raped someone in 2003 ???? That makes absolutely no sense !!!!
Colombus was a visionary and discovered the new world which took a tremendous amount of courage. Kobe Bryant bounced a ball.

Last edited by Lenox; 10/14/20 05:18 PM.
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Lenox] #998250
10/14/20 07:30 PM
10/14/20 07:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino Offline
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Dob_Peppino  Offline
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Originally Posted by Lenox
Before we close this up, you mean to tell me Colombus statues should be torn down because he killed some indians in the 1400’s despite discovering the new world and creating great opportunites for mankind ?
But its acceptable to leave a statue of Kobe Bryant who raped someone in 2003 ???? That makes absolutely no sense !!!!
Colombus was a visionary and discovered the new world which took a tremendous amount of courage. Kobe Bryant bounced a ball.

Cristoforo didn't discover a damn thing. How could you discover something that had already been traveled too? Another Italian Amerigo Vespucci, voyaged here before him, and the vikings before that and the moors before that. You're gleefully embarrassing yourself with contemp and prejudice. So I'll say it again "WHY DON'T YOU STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW AND LEAVE YOUR OPINIONS WHEREVER THE FUCK"

Last edited by Dob_Peppino; 10/14/20 07:30 PM.

"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998251
10/14/20 07:35 PM
10/14/20 07:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,147
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Lenox Offline
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Lenox  Offline
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Im sorry but i totally disagree with you. Obviously Colombus was a great man. You try sailing across the ocean in the 1400’s.. that took tremendous courage and he also discovered the new world and changed the way food was distributed and grown. He helped reduce world hunger.
Kobe Bryant raped a girl and bounced a ball, yet no one tried to tear his statue down.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: blueracing347] #998253
10/14/20 07:41 PM
10/14/20 07:41 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,005
Mississippi - 662
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BlackFamily Online content
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BlackFamily  Online Content
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Mississippi - 662
Originally Posted by blueracing347
Here we go. BF is instigating. There are many problems existing this very moment that need fixingb within low income communities. Tearing down statues, rioting, and getting rid of recognized days of people from the past will not solve those problems. Blazing others for your misfortune is weak. Then again, if that's the kind of environment you were raised in, you might not know any better. Good luck, and maybe one day we'll get to celebrate a Tupac/Biggie Day. But, be careful what you wish for. "Mo MONEY, MO PROBLEMS" Notorious B.I.G.


I honestly forgot you were still here LoL.


If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't spend the night with a mosquito.
- African Proverb
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: BlackFamily] #998270
10/14/20 10:25 PM
10/14/20 10:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 101
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Andragathia Offline
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Andragathia  Offline
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Colombo didn't commit any atrocities personally. He sailed over. Looked around. Sailed back. Brought more Spanish with him. They imprisoned him. Took him back and he never came over again. Put blame where it is due. It's an insult to the man's legacy to lie about him. And a slap in the face to Italians to wrongfully accuse him of something. Nothing new to us but we have to speak up. Read some books. Look at the true history. Natives were bulldozed. But not by Italians or Columbus.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998275
10/15/20 12:02 AM
10/15/20 12:02 AM
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Posts: 705
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ColonelReb Offline
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It's funny they want to tear statues down and erase history. You see anyone burning money or refuse to accept US currency? They'll tear down an Andrew Jackson statue but you don't see them rip up one of their $20 bills.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: ColonelReb] #998277
10/15/20 12:40 AM
10/15/20 12:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline
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Binnie_Coll  Offline
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far, northwest
when i was a boy 8-9 yrs old we were taught in school that christopher columbus discovered american, he didn't. but he was a very brave man sailing from italy across the sea, leave him be, it was 1492 when he sailed, he and the three ships were heroic.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Binnie_Coll] #998278
10/15/20 05:54 AM
10/15/20 05:54 AM
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Andragathia Offline
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Bonnie, it's a relative term. If me and you walk by a gold mine on our way to school everyday for years but one day I get sick and you find it, you discovered a gold mine. It's a play on words basically. People need to broaden their horizons. Of course other people lived there and traveled there. But Columbus the Spanish, Portuguese and a few nobles in Italy saw the potential. Whomever mentioned the idea of the Romans and Greeks hit the nail on the head. With all that is going on in the world, people should focus on what really matters. It's like the senator from Hawaii yesterday getting pissed off about the judge saying sexual preference. The world is burning and that's her focus. Not to mention Biden said the same thing a few weeks ago and that wasn't mentioned then. Deniro in casino is poiniot. They have a pass and think their pass is better than others.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Andragathia] #998295
10/15/20 02:37 PM
10/15/20 02:37 PM
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Posts: 712
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RollinBones Offline
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Originally Posted by Andragathia
Colombo didn't commit any atrocities personally. He sailed over. Looked around. Sailed back. Brought more Spanish with him. They imprisoned him. Took him back and he never came over again. Put blame where it is due. It's an insult to the man's legacy to lie about him. And a slap in the face to Italians to wrongfully accuse him of something. Nothing new to us but we have to speak up. Read some books. Look at the true history. Natives were bulldozed. But not by Italians or Columbus.

Have you looked at the history yourself? Columbus has been accused of plenty of atrocities, a lot of which were found out through his own men's journals. Him and his men routinely cut hands off people, raped women, killed people, etc. Thousands were killed while he was Colonial Governor of Hispaniola, and thousands more fled and killed themselves to avoid subjugation by Columbus' men. Where are you getting that he never did any of this? He also did return to Hispaniola after he got out of jail but was denied port so it wasn't for lack of trying.

It's interesting to me how most of the posters in here that are so adamant that Columbus was the greatest guy around barely know the history at all.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: RollinBones] #998315
10/16/20 07:45 AM
10/16/20 07:45 AM
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Andragathia Offline
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Andragathia  Offline
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I know plenty about the history of my ancestors. Consider your sources. I'd be interested in reading those journals. Can you link to them? I don't believe they were his men as you call them. He was just the tour guide. Do you blame a tour guide for the bad things his passengers did. Like if I beat you up on a septa bus here in Philly is it the drivers fault. Or if the driver drops me off at the next stop and I cut your mom's hands off do you assassinate me and the bus driver? You know for a fact Columbus was raping women. Idk. If I was one of his passengers and wanted to make sure a safe return back to Europe I wouldn't let him off the boat. What if he died and you couldn't get back. Ever think of things along those lines? Do you really believe Columbus was in charge of everyone or just a captain?

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: NYMafia] #998316
10/16/20 08:49 AM
10/16/20 08:49 AM
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Lenox Offline
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Lenox  Offline
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We do know for a fact that Kobe Bryant raped women but Rollong Bones wont tear his statue down.

Last edited by Lenox; 10/16/20 08:49 AM.
Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Andragathia] #998317
10/16/20 08:53 AM
10/16/20 08:53 AM
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RollinBones Offline
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Originally Posted by Andragathia
I know plenty about the history of my ancestors. Consider your sources. I'd be interested in reading those journals. Can you link to them? I don't believe they were his men as you call them. He was just the tour guide. Do you blame a tour guide for the bad things his passengers did. Like if I beat you up on a septa bus here in Philly is it the drivers fault. Or if the driver drops me off at the next stop and I cut your mom's hands off do you assassinate me and the bus driver? You know for a fact Columbus was raping women. Idk. If I was one of his passengers and wanted to make sure a safe return back to Europe I wouldn't let him off the boat. What if he died and you couldn't get back. Ever think of things along those lines? Do you really believe Columbus was in charge of everyone or just a captain?


No offense but I suggest you do more research yourself, because for someone who claims to know plenty about this history your analogy holds absolutely no water. Columbus was not just a captain, he was the "Colonial Governor" of Hispaniola. He was literally THE man in charge on the island while rape, murder, slavery and starvation was commonplace for the Tainos that lived there. That's nothing like a bus driver just going stop to stop. You can still be proud of your heritage while recognizing Columbus participated in genocide. Hell, if your ancestors are Southern Italian like mine, or from anywhere else besides Genoa, Columbus might not even consider you his ancestor in the first place since he was around loooong before the unification of Italy.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: RollinBones] #998318
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And if Biden is president he will be I charge. Think about it. Do you really think the Spanish Portuguese and nobles would let Columbus have all the power?

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And to quite honest, Haiti is a mess today. The DR isn't much better although they are more accomdating to visitors. It's like Africa. The areas Italy controlled prior to ww2 in my opinion would be in better shape today if they still owned them.

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Bones, you ever been to Italy?

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Originally Posted by Andragathia
And if Biden is president he will be I charge. Think about it. Do you really think the Spanish Portuguese and nobles would let Columbus have all the power?


Lmao this is comparing apples to bowling balls. You are talking about a nation of hundreds of millions, with hundreds of years of history, a constitutions that's been amended many times, along with independent states each with their own government, opposed to a small island where power was acquired through brute force and the original inhabitants were immediately subjugated to slavery.

Also, yes, they gave Columbus that much power. It wasn't like they could replace him immediately if they were dissatisfied although they did remove him eventually. Did you know Columbus was in with the Portuguese nobles through marriage? His wife was a noble. All of this information is available to you if you cared to look beyond the surface and get over your own feelings.

Re: IN HONOR OF COLUMBUS DAY! [Re: Andragathia] #998322
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Originally Posted by Andragathia
Bones, you ever been to Italy?

Yes. I've been to Naples, Rome, Florence and Rimini.

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