The NYC "Olive Oil Business" was important enough to Michael that he held onto it after moving the Family to Nevada--first through Clemenza, then through Pentangeli, acting as caporegimes. The Rosato brothers wanted it because they were greedy for the whole enchilada, not just the three territories in the Bronx that Clemenza allegedly promised them before he died. Roth supported the Rosatos killing Pentangeli because, if his plan to have Michael killed in Havana succeeded and the Rosatos took over the NYC operation, Michael's successors would be deprived of that muscle they could have used in the event of a war.

But, by the end of II, all we know about the Olive Oil Business in NYC is that Pentangeli flipped, and Roth and the Rosatos were "on the run." The next we hear about the Olive Oil Business is at Michael's party in III, when he says to Vincent: "Mr. Joe Zasa now owns what used to be the Corleone family business, in New York." Zasa replies: "I earned it through my talent."

Zasa looked to be about 40 in 1979, when III opens--too young to have taken over after Frankie flipped. What do you think happened to the Olive Oil Business after Frankie flipped?

Wow! Turnbull Tricky and interesting question indeed

What was Zasa's “talent"! that “earned” him "what used to be the Corleone family business, in New York" which presumably included all the business of murdered Barzini, Tattaglia, Cuneo and Stracci that were presumably annexed and absorbed into the Corleone "Olive Oil Business"

TB, you're correct about Zasa's age. However, Bonanno took over his family in his mid-twenties. The films don't identify anyone special who could have stepped in to succeed Frankie. It might have been Cicci if he hadn't become informant. Maybe Neri since he had the experience of at least temporarily running Tessio's regime. However, he was then put in charge of the casinos' security.

Yes. Of course. Michael said as much to Vincent. And,Zasa had to have taken over "in the years following the death of Frank Pentangeli." My question is: who took over immediately after Pentangeli flipped?

The question is even more difficult to answer because Vito only had 3 capos which was reduced to two capos after Sonny's death. So, once Michael takes over, Neri takes command of Tessio's regime, but then assumes control of security for the Nevada casino, Rocco has a regime, but it gets transferred to Nevada, and Clemenza becomes the Don. So, what capos are there under Clemenza besides Frankie and who of them rose to boss the Corleones in the interim?

Michael was under the impression Pentangeli [and Cicci] was dead

I can't see Michael abandoning the Corleone operation in New York, his muscle

It seems to me Michael appointed / elevated, the “talented” Joey Zaza, the long standing member going back to Clemenza's old regime and Michael was running the Corleone business from Tahoe by proxy until Zaza was officially awarded the business

Otherwise the Rosatos would not have been "on the run"
If Michael had not stepped in, it would have been a walkover for the Rosatos, to take over the Corleone operation, thrown into disarray with no Pentangeli no Cicci

No, indeed. Mafia families, like nature, abhor a vacuum. Had the Rosatos killed Pentangeli and not gotten into that shootout with the police, they would have stepped in and imposed themselves as the new leaders. Probably the remaining members of the NYC Corleones would have accepted them just so they could get back to earning money and to avoid an internal war. But, although Michael thought Pentangeli was dead, he must have known right away about the shootout with police, and that the Rosatos, consequently, were on the run. So, I'm guessing, he would have dispatched either Rocco or Neri to NYC immediately to restore order, and to vet another, temporary, caporegime to report to Michael. (I'm guessing he sent Rocco. The novel says Rocco stayed behind to back up his padrone, Clemenza, when Michael moved to Nevada.)


If Zasa was about 40 years old in 1979, when III opened, he would have been 19 in 1958, when the Rosatos attempted to kill Pentangeli--far too young to even have been "made," much less a "long standing member" of Clemenza's regime.

The best I can do to answer my own original question is that, per the above, Michael immediately appointed another (unknown to us forever) caporegime in NY. Zasa began his rise through the ranks. Some time after that, when Michael sold the casinos and no longer needed NYC's muscle, he turned it over to Zasa, thus completing his journey to "legitimacy."

Well, back to this Forum's subject ....

Puzo and FFC chose to minimize the number of Corleone regimes and the number of characters withing those regimes. I guess that's because, unlike a Russian novel author, most authors don't want readers (or movie viewers) having to keep a roster of characters. Cicci was the exception. So, we surmise that someone must have taken over from Clemenza and that it would probably be a regime member the identity of whom we can't know. Thus, I am left to default to Cicci. With Neri and Lampone out in Nevada, Cicci was seemingly the only other character with which we are familiar. He was formidable, dependable, and loyal. However, as he stated at the Senate hearing, "I never talked to him." (meaning Michael Corleone). If he was appointed as capo, that seems unlikely.

Cicci would have been logical, Oli, but he turned rat at the Senate hearing and probably went into protective custody.

True enough TB, but we are talking about right after Clemenza's demise which pre-dates the hearings.

Then when did Pentangeli enter the picture? When Michael visited him in NY, he said he was "very glad this house didn't go to strangers--first to Clemenza, then to you," implying a direct succession.

With Rocco in Nevada (instead of NYC, per the novel), Cicci provides NYC continuity between GF and II. As we know, FFC wanted Castellano to reprise Clemenza in II, but they couldn't come to terms. Hence Pentangeli, and Cicci as his subordinate.

I stand corrected Turnbull and thanks for your informative explanation

1. Pentangeli [unknown to us until Godfather 2] took over from Clemenza
2. Pentangeli taken into custody in the bar
3. Cicci was captured in the shoot out
4. Rosatos escaped and “consequently, were on the run”
5. “Michael immediately appointed another (unknown to us forever) caporegime in NY”

The paucity of any reliable time frames in the novel or films makes answering some of these questions quite a challenge. However, I think this might work.

There's no evidence of Clemenza alive in GFII. Frankie is apparently already in charge in NY. Cicci and Frankie are wearing black armbands, so that's some indication that Clemenza's death was fairly recent and Frankie took over soon after - a direct succession.

Who took over from Frankie? I really cannot guess other than Cicci. As I posted above, we are not apprised of any other characters who could do so except Neri and Lampone who were cemented into their roles in Nevada.

Oli, I don't understand: Are you saying that, after Cicci testified at the Senate hearing that Michael Corleone was the head of the Corleone crime family that he served, and that, as a button man, he killed people "at the behest" of his superiors, the Feds let him walk away, and then Michael rewarded Cicci by putting him in charge of the Olive Oil Business?

As I posted above, we are left with a limited number of characters to choose from as Frankie's successor.

Neri and Lampone are out. That leaves Cicci and Zasa. We don't know the interval of time from the shootout to the Senate hearing. Although Cicci was wounded, he could have had time to recover and take over the family before the Senate hearing. Even if he was indicted et al, he still could have served as at least an interim Don for a short period. Another thing that we don't know is when Cicci decided to testify as he did. His testimony indicates that he entered into a plea deal. Of course, we then have to ask who took over from Cicci.

Zasa would have been rather young to take over from Frankie, but such a youthful takeover is not without precedent. So, maybe he is our missing link.

In the shootout that follows Pentangeli's strangulation, Cicci is grievously wounded and is left lying in the street as everyone drives away.

I always assumed that he was also presumed dead and holed up with Frankie until the hearing.

At the least, he was surely arested and charged with serious crimes, so I can't imagine he was promoted to a more powerful role.

In the spirit of speculating based on known movie characters, here's a theory for you: Michael had Don Altobello manage things in NYC until he stepped aside for Joey Zasa.

That's an interesting one, Woltz. He came in out of nowhere in III. He was Connie's godfather, which means he was close to Vito. He also was aligned with Zasa in his betrayal of Michael. Anyway, it's the best answer to a question that has no provable answer.

But is it for real or is it a mirage?

As I crawl across the scorching desert sands in my efforts to answer this Forum's question, exhausted and dehydrated,I reach for the water canteen labeled Altobello.

But is it for real or is it a mirage?

Best answer indeed

Wonder whether Don Altobello was an independent Don or was running the New York operation like a Corleone! muscle-in-reserve for Michael and paying tribute to Michael as well

That has been a strong theory for a number of years. Don Altobello came out of left field in the movie, yet was Connie's Godfather, connected to Zasa, and had connections to Sicily.