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Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Turnbull] #995575
08/15/20 09:24 AM
08/15/20 09:24 AM
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Posts: 1,463
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
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No. Virginia
Weird little thing in the book, at Vito's funeral, "The Five Families sent their Dons and caporegimes, as did the Tessio and Clemenza Families." So it seems at some point Puzo was thinking of them as independents, perhaps abandoning the line later.

Last edited by mustachepete; 08/15/20 10:21 AM.

"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: mustachepete] #995577
08/15/20 11:15 AM
08/15/20 11:15 AM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted by mustachepete
Weird little thing in the book, at Vito's funeral, "The Five Families sent their Dons and caporegimes, as did the Tessio and Clemenza Families." So it seems at some point Puzo was thinking of them as independents, perhaps abandoning the line later.



That is interesting Pete. Of course, in other posts we have lamented Puzo's sloppy writing. I guess this is just one example of it especially since near the end of the novel Puzo writes that "during that same twenty-four hour period Clemenza and Lampone turned loose their regimes ..."; "Neri was sent to take command of the Tessio regime."; "Now...Clemenza had his own family."


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Turnbull] #995586
08/15/20 09:00 PM
08/15/20 09:00 PM
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Evita Offline
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
Originally Posted by Lana
I think another contributing factor for Tessio's betrayal, could have been wasn't Tessio more of an 'independent' operator than Clemenza


The novel says that Vito kept Clemenza on a short leash, but treated Tessio with more independence. Tess didn't live at the Mall. Vito tacitly encouraged his foes to think that Tess was an independent operator, the better to hide Vito's full strength from them.

Quote
A side question please, what if Clemenza and Tessio teamed up and conspired together


They would not have conspired together because doing so would mean splitting up the Corleone Family. Neither, especially Tess, would have gone for that--it's all or nothing in the Mafia. Also, splitting the Family would gravely weaken both sides.

Did Clemenza live at the Mall? I thought he lived away with his wife in their own house

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Lana] #995587
08/15/20 09:06 PM
08/15/20 09:06 PM
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Evita Offline
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Originally Posted by Lana
Clemenza: [fish tank scene] “Don Corleone you once said that the day would come when Tessio and me could form our own Family”
It seems to me the above was the carrot Vito has been dangling and both Clemenza and Tessio seemingly were receptive of the said arrangement / reward

Clemenza and Tessio already had their own territories They could have continued to run their respective Families [like a Corleone!] without Michael on their backs

Michael can still draw the water from their well for muscle and they can certainly present a bill for such services
After all Michael is not a Communist!

It does beg the question why set up the betrayal, knowing there could be one or more possible traitors? Why not take them, the long term trusted Corleone people into confidence?

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Evita] #995590
08/16/20 12:42 AM
08/16/20 12:42 AM
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Lana Offline
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My take, for what it is worth!

It is small potatoes! compared to wiping out all the Dons, Greene and Carlo in one sweep and the surprise element would have been lost otherwise
Too much of a risk There is always the possibility someone could let something slip....

I don't think anyone outside of Vito and Michael knew anything about the baptism murders, by design, even Tom was kept out of the loop
Nobody was let in on, what Vito and Michael were planning until their need to know after the traitor revealed himself

Then, after Tessio revealed himself as the traitor, whoever were picked for their specific assignments would have been assigned the task of tracking their respective targets' movements to plan out their hits

Once the plans organised and put together, the actual day of the massacre [the same day? as the Tessio brokered 'meeting' with Barzini] would have been picked and coordinated accordingly to carry out the murders pretty much simultaneously

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Lana] #995601
08/16/20 08:39 AM
08/16/20 08:39 AM
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Capri Offline
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if nobody betrays?

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Capri] #995640
08/17/20 12:51 AM
08/17/20 12:51 AM
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Lana Offline
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Then they could “all live happily for a hundred years”

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Lana] #995661
08/18/20 12:01 AM
08/18/20 12:01 AM
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n.e.philly
hoodlum Offline
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n.e.philly
Originally Posted by Lana
Then they could “all live happily for a hundred years”

But Tessio had an upcoming project called" Barney Miller"...so he had 2 go..strictly bizzness.lol..


I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Turnbull] #995662
08/18/20 12:39 AM
08/18/20 12:39 AM
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olivant Offline
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If Tessio had succeeded, we'd all be speaking Brooklyn Italian.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Turnbull] #1032638
04/09/22 12:02 AM
04/09/22 12:02 AM
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Lana Offline
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Tessio
  • underestimating
Tessio after his phone conversation “We're on our way to Brooklyn” striding out, leading Tom, perhaps quite arrogantly, smug that he had outfought Michael and Tom
Quote
Tessio: I hope Mike can get us a good deal tonight [by dying!]
  • annoyance
Quote
Willie Cicci: Sal -- Tom -- the Boss says he'll come in a separate car He says for you two to go on ahead
Tessio: Hell, he can't do that -- it screws up all my arrangements!
  • realisation
Tessio is a dead man when Tom says “I can't go either, Sal”
Abe Vigoda's acting was superb indeed almost made us feel sorry for Tessio

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Lana] #1032665
04/09/22 07:23 PM
04/09/22 07:23 PM
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Evita Offline
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It was always the case, wasn't it?
The despair and pain when losing their lives or their loved ones but no hesitation in murdering others' fathers, sons, working girls
Vito at the loss of Sonny, Michael losing Apollonia, Mary and Tessio to get him off the hook

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Lana] #1033079
04/19/22 10:52 AM
04/19/22 10:52 AM
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Capri Offline
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Originally Posted by Lana

Abe Vigoda's acting was superb indeed almost made us feel sorry for Tessio

He got part out of 500 auditions

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Turnbull] #1033589
04/26/22 04:10 AM
04/26/22 04:10 AM
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Capri Offline
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Would Clemenza do what Tessio did if Barzini's people chiselling his territory

Re: If Tessio had succeeded [Re: Capri] #1033664
04/26/22 08:23 PM
04/26/22 08:23 PM
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Evita Offline
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I can't see Clemenza same as Tom ever betraying the family
That's why I reckon Pentangeli worked better also Gazzo was so good and so entertaining

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