GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
6 registered members (RushStreet, Irishman12, Signor Vitelli, Toodoped, 2 invisible), 90 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 67,095
DE NIRO 44,945
J Geoff 31,284
Hollander 23,355
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,487
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,216
Posts1,056,182
Members10,349
Most Online796
Jan 21st, 2020
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Sonny and Tom Disagree #987042
02/27/20 08:44 PM
02/27/20 08:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
When Sonny is talking to Michael, before Tom returns safely, Sonny says:

Quote
“With the old man gone, the Family power is cut at least in half. I would be fighting for my life anyway to keep all the businesses the old man got together. Drugs are the coming thing, we should get into it. And his knocking off the old man is purely business, nothing personal. As a matter of business I would go in with him. Of course he would never let me get too close, he’d make sure I’d never get a clean shot at him, just in case. But he also knows that once I accepted the deal the other Families would never let me start a war a couple of years later just for revenge..”


When Tom arrives Sonny asks him what should they do if their father dies. Tom says:

Quote
“I know you won’t do it but I would advise you to make a real deal with Sollozzo on the drugs. Without your father’s political contacts and personal influence the Corleone Family loses half its strength. Without your father, the other New York Families might wind up supporting the Tattaglias and Sollozzo just to make sure there isn’t a long destructive war. If your father dies, make the deal. Then wait and see.”


Sonny doesn’t like hearing this from Tom and points out that Tom is not blood to which Tom retorts that he was as much of a son to Vito as Sonny or Michael, maybe better. Sonny realizes he hit a nerve and swiftly apologizes.

But what’s interesting here is how Sonny gets angry at Tom for advising the rational course of action which Sonny himself had JUST FINISHED laying out to Michael. So either we can think that is bad writing from Puzo or more likely just a realistic example of human nature. Sometimes we don’t want to consider the “right” answer when it’s the painful one. And we certainly don’t want to hear it from other people-even loved ones. Sonny was hoping that Tom had some magic way out.

Thoughts???


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Sonny and Tom Disagree [Re: Lilo] #987107
02/29/20 10:07 AM
02/29/20 10:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,463
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
Special
mustachepete  Offline
Special
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,463
No. Virginia
Just before the first passage, he says, "So Sollozzo figures he gets rid of the old man, I have to go in with him on the drugs." So I think that in the rest of that passage he's telling Michael how Sollozzo sees things. Sonny continues on to say that Sollozzo is dead meat, he doesn't care what the cost. So Sonny's mad at Tom for recommending a path that Sonny's already rejected.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Sonny and Tom Disagree [Re: mustachepete] #987963
03/20/20 11:37 PM
03/20/20 11:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487
AZ
I just saw this thread now:

Sonny could never make the deal with Sol if Vito died, for strategic reasons. First, the capos heard him shoot his mouth off during the meeting with Sol, and, if he made the deal, would think he saw Vito's death as an opportunity to get into the drugs business, which is what he wanted in the first place (the novel said he wanted the drugs deal as a way to get out from under the Don's thumb). Word would get down to the troops. Loyalty to Sonny would erode. Second, Sonny didn't have the hold on the judges and politicos that Vito did. If they'd be reluctant to support Vito on drugs, they'd never support Sonny. Third, Sonny was an excellent "street general" and a formidable fighting force. He had a chance to outfight the other families. He'd lose face forever if he made the deal with Sol.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Sonny and Tom Disagree [Re: Lilo] #987968
03/21/20 07:29 AM
03/21/20 07:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,463
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
Special
mustachepete  Offline
Special
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,463
No. Virginia
TB: a little quibble. On the book side, just Vito, Sonny, and Tom meet Sol. Sonny tells Michael about it in a private conversation. So I don't think we know what the capos know about the meeting.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Sonny and Tom Disagree [Re: mustachepete] #987981
03/21/20 12:12 PM
03/21/20 12:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,018
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,018
Texas
Originally Posted by mustachepete
TB: a little quibble. On the book side, just Vito, Sonny, and Tom meet Sol. Sonny tells Michael about it in a private conversation. So I don't think we know what the capos know about the meeting.


That's the dilemma we face: do we go by the book or the film?

Pete, your right about that scene as portrayed in the novel, just like Luca's flirtation with the Tattaglia's taking place over the course of several months and not in one scene as portrayed in the film.

Despite Puzo's or FFC's intention, I've never bought into Sonny's outburst as anything except his mouthing off. It wasn't convincing for me and I can't see Sollozzo interpreting it as Sonny being hot for his deal.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Sonny and Tom Disagree [Re: mustachepete] #988013
03/21/20 05:46 PM
03/21/20 05:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,487
AZ
Originally Posted by mustachepete
TB: a little quibble. On the book side, just Vito, Sonny, and Tom meet Sol. Sonny tells Michael about it in a private conversation. So I don't think we know what the capos know about the meeting.

You're right, Pete. blush Interesting that Fredo wasn't at the meeting.

Sonny, after the shooting, did tell Michael that he shot his mouth off. I've posted in the GF Trilogy board that Sol probably would have attempted to kill Vito even if Sonny had kept quiet.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Sonny and Tom Disagree [Re: Lilo] #988182
03/25/20 11:54 AM
03/25/20 11:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,018
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,018
Texas
TB, you're absolutely right about that: Sollozzo would still have tried to murder Vito. Afterall, it was Barzini all along.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™