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Mafia and Family Dynasties #979610
10/18/19 08:19 PM
10/18/19 08:19 PM
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Revis_Knicks Offline OP
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Did the mafia ever rub elbows with rich family dynasties such as the Rockefellers, JP Morgans, Gettys, Kochs, Rothschilds and so on? I know they were obviously close with the Kennedys but I don’t think the Kennedys ever had as much money as the aforementioned families(though they had a lot of course). I would think that people on that level of business would not need to associate with the mafia because they could buy and sell all of the top bosses without any problem. I believe they looked down on the mafia bosses who considered themselves businessmen compared to them. But I am not knowledgeable on the subject, just basically guessing here.

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979611
10/18/19 08:20 PM
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The mafia in Italy is already well known to either do business or even control the most powerful businessmen and politicians in their country. As well as Russia but to a lesser extent to the Italians.

Last edited by Revis_Knicks; 10/18/19 08:21 PM.
Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979615
10/18/19 10:55 PM
10/18/19 10:55 PM
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Mafia would not be permitted to "Rub elbows" with the dynasties you mentioned. But, it's possible--probably in some cases--that their enterprises had contact with and did business with mobsters and mob-controlled organizations, such as Mafia-controlled unions, construction companies, business associations or "consultants." They do rub elbows in Europe, Asia and Latin America.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Turnbull] #979617
10/19/19 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
Mafia would not be permitted to "Rub elbows" with the dynasties you mentioned. But, it's possible--probably in some cases--that their enterprises had contact with and did business with mobsters and mob-controlled organizations, such as Mafia-controlled unions, construction companies, business associations or "consultants." They do rub elbows in Europe, Asia and Latin America.


Would you say that some old mafia leaders wanted to become as powerful and rich as some of these people though? And were any of them on the track to be on their level? One I can possibly think of is Moe Dalitz.

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979618
10/19/19 12:56 AM
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Example that comes to mind is Meyer Lansky and Fulgencio Batista, President/Dictator of Cuba.

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979634
10/19/19 12:26 PM
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I always wondered how much money Lansky lost in the whole Cuba debacle. An author who did research on his life says he lost his whole fortune and that is why he died with very little to leave his family. His daughter said that after Cuba failed he transferred $15 million to her brother’s bank account but I don’t know how believable that is.

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Turnbull] #979704
10/20/19 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
Mafia would not be permitted to "Rub elbows" with the dynasties you mentioned.


Do you mean according to the mob's own rules, or that dynasties would just never bother with the mob? I'd have to question the former. I would bet Costello must have had friends in those Rockefeller-type circles. How else would he have obtained the control he did over the courts and political halls? Kind of a small example but Francesco Lanza in San Francisco built Fisherman's Wharf with Giuseppe Aliato, whose son Joe would become mayor, and Lanza was recognized by the Commission as the first real boss out there.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979711
10/20/19 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Knicks
The mafia in Italy is already well known to either do business or even control the most powerful businessmen and politicians in their country. As well as Russia but to a lesser extent to the Italians.


In Russia, the state controls everything , state & secret service have total control of organized crime. Not just in Russia , but whole of Eastern Europe , here u know who is working for secret services, they have police/secret services identifications and they are untouchable


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: OakAsFan] #979766
10/21/19 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Originally Posted by Turnbull
Mafia would not be permitted to "Rub elbows" with the dynasties you mentioned.


Do you mean according to the mob's own rules, or that dynasties would just never bother with the mob? I'd have to question the former. I would bet Costello must have had friends in those Rockefeller-type circles. How else would he have obtained the control he did over the courts and political halls? Kind of a small example but Francesco Lanza in San Francisco built Fisherman's Wharf with Giuseppe Aliato, whose son Joe would become mayor, and Lanza was recognized by the Commission as the first real boss out there.


Great example. I think that people like the Rockefellers were some of the most powerful and influential people in the world. I don’t see why they would need to bother with the mob because they were more powerful and much wealthier without needing them in the first place. I think there were mobsters who could have reached that level of success eventually but nobody really did.

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Strax] #979769
10/21/19 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by Revis_Knicks
The mafia in Italy is already well known to either do business or even control the most powerful businessmen and politicians in their country. As well as Russia but to a lesser extent to the Italians.


In Russia, the state controls everything , state & secret service have total control of organized crime. Not just in Russia , but whole of Eastern Europe , here u know who is working for secret services, they have police/secret services identifications and they are untouchable


What about Mogilevich? He’s controlled by the state?

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979775
10/21/19 06:39 PM
10/21/19 06:39 PM
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I think Escobar was the closest to ever being on that level. He really was among the richest people in the world at the height of his operation.

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979776
10/21/19 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Knicks

What about Mogilevich? He’s controlled by the state?


Of course he is,everyone are, you can't come to that level without state/secret services. KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko recorded a tape where he explained how Mogilevich is close to Putin ,he was poisoned shortly after. As i said you,everyone in Eastern Europe are controlled by state/secret services, from most powerful mafia bosses to tycoons. Everyone here knows that , its like public secret. Arkan who was one of most richest people in Eastern Europe and very powerful war lord, started working for secret services as leader of football hooligans. Even today pretty much all leaders of football hooligans here work for secret services.

Last edited by Strax; 10/21/19 07:07 PM.

"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Strax] #979780
10/21/19 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by Revis_Knicks

What about Mogilevich? He’s controlled by the state?


Of course he is,everyone are, you can't come to that level without state/secret services. KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko recorded a tape where he explained how Mogilevich is close to Putin ,he was poisoned shortly after. As i said you,everyone in Eastern Europe are controlled by state/secret services, from most powerful mafia bosses to tycoons. Everyone here knows that , its like public secret. Arkan who was one of most richest people in Eastern Europe and very powerful war lord, started working for secret services as leader of football hooligans. Even today pretty much all leaders of football hooligans here work for secret services.


While the Russian state controls everything, it seems like the Italian state and the Italian mafia work together. The American mafia and the government used to work together too. But the American mob doesn’t have that kind of power or money anymore.

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979816
10/22/19 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Knicks
[quote=Strax][quote=Revis_Knicks]
While the Russian state controls everything, it seems like the Italian state and the Italian mafia work together. The American mafia and the government used to work together too. But the American mob doesn’t have that kind of power or money anymore.


russian and chinese states control everythings (also the mob), italian and japanese states work togheter with the mob, mexican cartels openly fight the state (or at least the part not corrupted)

Re: Mafia and Family Dynasties [Re: Revis_Knicks] #979855
10/22/19 07:37 PM
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Why did the Americans not really become entrenched in the state as much as the Italians did with their country? The Italians(Especially the LCN and Ndrangheta) took after the Americans and turned themselves into a multi billion dollar criminal enterprise quickly. You could say that they took it to another level. The Italian Americans trended in the opposite direction as they never saw money like the Italians did when they started to expand their empire and move away from being more agricultural based.


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