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The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence #979265
10/10/19 07:20 AM
10/10/19 07:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,209
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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https://www.panorama.it/news/in-giustizia/ergastolo-ostativo-cosa-prevede-europa/

What is a obstative life sentence
For Europe, Italian obstative life sentence is an "inhuman punishment". Here's what you expect

The European Court of Human Rights today asked Italy to review its rules on life imprisonment. The Court held that obstative life imprisonment is contrary to Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which prohibits inhuman and degrading punishments. In the absence of appeals, the sentence will become final in three months.

For obstative life sentence means the sentence that provides for life imprisonment: the so-called "end of sentence:never". According to Italian law, even those who are sentenced to life imprisonment are entitled to certain benefits (such as probation), and can make use of permission-award; after 26 years in prison, moreover, the condemned to life imprisonment can be granted conditional freedom if, during the detention, he has kept a good conduct and a behavior such to believe that his repentance is sincere.

obstative life sentence is the exception to the rule, as it does not allow any type of benefit or reward to be granted to the offender. For this reason, obstative life sentence is imposed only on highly dangerous individuals who have committed certain crimes: for example, kidnapping for ransom or the mafia-type association. For them there is only the "end of sentence:never": among the last cases, we recall that of the mafia boss Bernardo Provenzano, who died in prison in July 2016 after a very long illness.

The Strasbourg decision concerns in particular the case of Marcello Viola, a convict for mafia association, for murders and kidnappings, who had been sentenced to life imprisonment in the early 1990s, to which the Italian government must now pay 6 thousand euros for legal costs.
In the ruling the Strasbourg judges point out that "the lack of collaboration is equated with an irrefutable presumption of danger to society" and this principle means that the national courts do not take into consideration or reject the requests of those sentenced to life imprisonment. The Court observes that if "collaboration with justice can offer to who are sentenced to obstative life imprisonment a way to obtain some benefits", this "road" is too narrow.

In the sentence it is observed that the choice to collaborate is not always "free", because for example some convicts are afraid that this puts their families in danger. The Strasbourg judges also write that "it cannot be assumed that any collaboration with justice implies real repentance and is accompanied by the decision to cut all ties with criminal associations".
The Court does not deny the seriousness of the crimes committed by Marcello Viola, but criticizes the fact that the man, only because he did not cooperate with the justice, was refused requests for leaving prison, despite many reports indicating his good conduct and a positive change in his personality.

The sentence states that depriving a convict of any possibility of rehabilitation and therefore of the hope of being able to leave prison one day violates the basic principle on which the European convention of human rights is based, respect for human dignity.
Like all the judgments of the European Court, this one too will make jurisprudence and will have wider effects: it can be applied against anyone who finds himself serving a sentence of that kind.

Life imprisonment in the Italian legal system is regulated by article 17 and following of the Penal Code. Article 22 says that "the sentence of life imprisonment is perpetual, and is granted in one of the establishments for which it is intended, with the obligation of work and night-time isolation".

WHO IS MARCELLO VIOLA?

Marcello Viola, in prison for four life sentences,is considered the boss of the homonymous family, protagonist of the Taurianova feud and instigator of the murder of Giuseppe Grimaldi, which occurred on 3 May 1991 in the "Black Friday" of the town of the Plain of Gioia Tauro : the killers beheaded him and with his severed head they did target shooting in a town square.

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #979284
10/10/19 07:58 PM
10/10/19 07:58 PM
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Hollander Offline
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If Italy is forced to change the current laws and imprisoned for life, people like Leoluca Bagarella, Raffaele Cutolo and other major bosses could be out in a little while.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #979290
10/11/19 02:50 AM
10/11/19 02:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,209
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hollander
If Italy is forced to change the current laws and imprisoned for life, people like Leoluca Bagarella, Raffaele Cutolo and other major bosses could be out in a little while.


That's the risk or that people that are in prison but still have connection can return to run his bussinesses from behind the bar.
But I dont think that will happen. In Italy too much blood has been shed for come to this law,the italian people will rebel if a politician should try to change the law.

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #979938
10/24/19 06:18 AM
10/24/19 06:18 AM
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There is a long list of mafia bosses (about 1.000) who could get permits because of the Court decision, among them Leoluca Bagarella, the Graviano brothers, Nitto Santapaola, Pippo Calò (Cosa Nostra) Raffaele Cutolo, Francesco Schiavone, Michele Zagaria (Camorra) Giuseppe Morabito, the Molè brothers, Pasquale Condello, Nino Imerti ('Ndrangheta).


Constitutional court opens to permits for mafia lifers
After ECHR ruling

(ANSA) - Rome, October 23 - The Constitutional court on Wednesday opened up to permits for mafia lifers who don't collaborate with justice, like those enjoyed by other prisoners serving life.

A failure to turn state's evidence should not disallow furloughs and bonus permits provided that a link to organised crime is ruled out, the court ruled.

Anti-migrant Euroskeptic League party leader Matteo Salvini reacted by saying the sentence was "devastating" and "we will try to demolish it with all legally possible means".

He called the ruling "disgusting and diseducational".

Justice Minister Alfonso Bonafede said his offices were "already at work" to comply with the sentence.

Longtime anti-mafia prosecutor Sebastiano Ardita said the sentence spelled a risk that Cosa Nostra might reorganise, "if the exception becomes the rule".

He called on parliament to intervene to make sure the mafia doesn't pressure detention magistrates. Earlier this month the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) on Tuesday ruled that Italy must reform its law on life imprisonment which states that inmates cannot have time off unless they collaborate with justice.

On October 8, the court rejected an appeal from Rome for a new ruling after an unfavourable judgment issued on June 13.

In that ruling, the court urged Italy to revise its laws mandating life sentences for certain very serious crimes, and ruling out sentence reductions unless inmates turned informant.

Life terms subject the prisoner to inhuman and degrading treatment, violating their dignity, the ECHR said.

The court ruling regarded Marcello Viola, found guilty of mafia association, multiple murder and robbery, who has been in jail since the start of the 1990s.

The ECHR sentence did not mean that Viola should be released.

But Italy was ordered to pay him 6,000 euros in court costs.

Foreign Minister Luigi Di Maio said his ruling anti-establishment 5-Star Movement (M5S) "does not share in any way the court's decision".

"Today the Strasbourg Court says that life imprisonment 'violates human rights' and that we should reform it.

"Are we joking? If you go hand in hand with the mafia, if you destroy the lives of whole families and innocent people, you do prison according to certain rules.

"No jail time off, no conditional liberty. You pay, full stop.

"Here we are still grieving for our heroes, our victims, and now we're supposed to think about safeguarding the rights of their killers?" Justice Minister Alfonso Bonafede, also of the M5S, said "we absolutely do not agree with the court's ruling".


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #979939
10/24/19 06:31 AM
10/24/19 06:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,209
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Leoluca Bagarella, the Graviano brothers, Nitto Santapaola, Pippo Calò (Cosa Nostra) Raffaele Cutolo, Francesco Schiavone, Michele Zagaria (Camorra) Giuseppe Morabito, the Molè brothers, Pasquale Condello, Nino Imerti ('Ndrangheta) all people that killed or ordered to kill thousand people and they would send back to the streets? No way!!!!

The other countries didn't understand what the mafias done (and still doing) to the Italy,we have 4 regions on twenty where the state must fight every day against organized crime,almost a third of the whole italian population.

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #979952
10/24/19 03:54 PM
10/24/19 03:54 PM
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m2w Offline
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holy shit

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: m2w] #979976
10/25/19 03:50 AM
10/25/19 03:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,209
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by m2w
holy shit


???

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #979977
10/25/19 03:56 AM
10/25/19 03:56 AM
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Strax Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by m2w
holy shit


???


It's just his reaction to this nonsense. What is unclear there? lol

Topic related: There is no way this is going to work, Italians would never allow it , they will come up with something to keep people like Bagarella and others.

Last edited by Strax; 10/25/19 03:58 AM.

"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: Strax] #979978
10/25/19 06:08 AM
10/25/19 06:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,209
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by m2w
holy shit


???


It's just his reaction to this nonsense. What is unclear there? lol

Topic related: There is no way this is going to work, Italians would never allow it , they will come up with something to keep people like Bagarella and others.


Ah ok Strax.I didn't understood but now yes.Anyway in other part of the world exist something like the 41 bis regime like the supermax prisons and sometimes in italy or in europe someone say that the 41 bis regime is not human etc but what hurts is that the European Union gives reason to these idiots, because those in 41 bis are dangerous criminals not ordinary people who are tortured with isolation.

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 10/25/19 06:12 AM.
Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: Strax] #980687
11/09/19 06:21 PM
11/09/19 06:21 PM
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m2w Offline
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Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by m2w
holy shit


???


It's just his reaction to this nonsense. What is unclear there? lol

Topic related: There is no way this is going to work, Italians would never allow it , they will come up with something to keep people like Bagarella and others.


it was the italian court that decided this time, not the echr, we really could see people like bagarella and lo piccolo in freedom in the next months, at least for a limited period, permits

Last edited by m2w; 11/09/19 06:21 PM.
Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: m2w] #980777
11/11/19 06:36 AM
11/11/19 06:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,209
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by m2w
holy shit


???


It's just his reaction to this nonsense. What is unclear there? lol

Topic related: There is no way this is going to work, Italians would never allow it , they will come up with something to keep people like Bagarella and others.


it was the italian court that decided this time, not the echr, we really could see people like bagarella and lo piccolo in freedom in the next months, at least for a limited period, permits


No way. Bagarella and the other mafiosi will go on the lam after put their feets out of prison.

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 11/11/19 06:36 AM.
Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #980781
11/11/19 02:30 PM
11/11/19 02:30 PM
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m2w Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples

No way. Bagarella and the other mafiosi will go on the lam after put their feets out of prison.


they can't go against the court just because they suspect this

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: m2w] #980782
11/11/19 02:37 PM
11/11/19 02:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,209
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples

No way. Bagarella and the other mafiosi will go on the lam after put their feets out of prison.


they can't go against the court just because they suspect this


Public opinion will rise as soon as it is known that a mafioso of the caliber of bagarella could be released from prison.

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #980785
11/11/19 03:23 PM
11/11/19 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples

No way. Bagarella and the other mafiosi will go on the lam after put their feets out of prison.


they can't go against the court just because they suspect this


Public opinion will rise as soon as it is known that a mafioso of the caliber of bagarella could be released from prison.


if they know when he's released... i don't think italia media are so interested in organized crime these days, just look what they talk in the news

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #980790
11/11/19 05:56 PM
11/11/19 05:56 PM
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Italian media didn't even report the disappearances of witnesses from witness protection program during state-mafia trials in last year.

Last edited by Strax; 11/11/19 05:57 PM.

"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: Strax] #980821
11/12/19 05:22 AM
11/12/19 05:22 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples

No way. Bagarella and the other mafiosi will go on the lam after put their feets out of prison.


they can't go against the court just because they suspect this


Public opinion will rise as soon as it is known that a mafioso of the caliber of bagarella could be released from prison.


if they know when he's released... i don't think italia media are so interested in organized crime these days, just look what they talk in the news

Originally Posted by Strax
Italian media didn't even report the disappearances of witnesses from witness protection program during state-mafia trials in last year.


That's true but its because the young generations doesn't remembers when the sicilian mafia declared war to the Italian State and the bomb was blowing but there would be a possibility that a shoot caller would walk free the media will wake and made news on who was this shot caller,why was sentenced ecc. also the victims parents should talk to everyone for avoid the shot caller release.

Re: The Europe against the Italian Life Sentence [Re: furio_from_naples] #980834
11/12/19 02:41 PM
11/12/19 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples

That's true but its because the young generations doesn't remembers when the sicilian mafia declared war to the Italian State and the bomb was blowing but there would be a possibility that a shoot caller would walk free the media will wake and made news on who was this shot caller,why was sentenced ecc. also the victims parents should talk to everyone for avoid the shot caller release.


yeah, in 1991 there were 700 organized-crime related murders, today 50 at most yearly, it's a total different and quite thing... anyway riina and provenzano are dead and most of sses are not so famous, although they are very dangerous, and not bagarella only, there are tons of bosses sentenced to life that could be out in the next months piddu madonia, salvatore biondino, nino madonia, vito vitale, pietro aglieri etc, just to say the cosa nostra ones


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