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Why didnt associates just form their own families? #978133
09/12/19 06:49 PM
09/12/19 06:49 PM
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Primo Offline OP
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Guys who couldn't get made or associates why didn't they just say fuck this waiting around lets go set up shop together. they knew all the rackets etc. if one fam aint gonna let you in for 20 plus years why not just say fuck it and round up all your other non made friends who have been trying to get made and move to like Honolulu or wherever and just fucking take that shit over for themselves?

Just to clarify I posted this while super high on some good kush haha

Last edited by Primo; 09/12/19 06:54 PM.

I've walked along the red canal of mars
I've known kings and king makers
Poets painters and paupers
I've danced danced on the rings of Saturn
Still your pilgrim soul is the only thing that ever mattered
Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978143
09/13/19 05:41 AM
09/13/19 05:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Quote
Honolulu or wherever and just fucking take that shit over for themselves?


Because also in Honolulu there big criminals that you must pay for protection. More associates especially if are italians have parents that are made and made more cash staying under the radar or more street guys know that are respected and feared on the streets without getting made and even prefer to dont get made because the made men risk more heavy sentences only because ghey are part of a mob family.
For the non-italians I think that is because they made more $$$ staying with the mob that alone.
The albanian rudaj tried to fight the mafia and was disbanded by the feds and the other people turned back to pay protection to the mob.
I hope I was clear.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978147
09/13/19 08:01 AM
09/13/19 08:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 847
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Neo Offline
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Originally Posted by Primo
they knew all the rackets etc. if one fam aint gonna let you in for 20 plus years why not just say fuck it and round up all your other non made friends who have been trying to get made and move to like Honolulu or wherever and just fucking take that shit over for themselves?



They don't "know all the rackets". If they did they would have got their button.

A bunch of white boys can't just move to Honalulu and "take over shit". You've got powerful groups like the Sinaloa cartel, Chinese Triads and Yakuza that all have interests there. They ain't going to move aside for a bunch of second rate grease balls that couldn't get made.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978148
09/13/19 08:37 AM
09/13/19 08:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 102
Rochester/Pittsburgh
FrankValenti Offline
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Rochester/Pittsburgh
Some tried.

In Rochester, the C-Team was comprised of mostly non-made associates. Headed by Tom Torpey and Tom Taylor, two former bodyguards to Rochester's slain underboss Sammy G Gingello, they attempted to take over control of rackets from the ruling crime family as it was weakened in the midst of a gang war during the early 1980s. They were successful in hiring "Mad Dog" Sullivan to whack a capo and they roughed up a few made guys, but for the most part they were unsuccessful, getting aired out by the mobsters first and locked up in a string of RICO indictments immediately after.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Neo] #978149
09/13/19 09:39 AM
09/13/19 09:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 42
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Immortale Offline
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Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by Primo
they knew all the rackets etc. if one fam aint gonna let you in for 20 plus years why not just say fuck it and round up all your other non made friends who have been trying to get made and move to like Honolulu or wherever and just fucking take that shit over for themselves?



They don't "know all the rackets". If they did they would have got their button.

A bunch of white boys can't just move to Honalulu and "take over shit". You've got powerful groups like the Sinaloa cartel, Chinese Triads and Yakuza that all have interests there. They ain't going to move aside for a bunch of second rate grease balls that couldn't get made.


Please don't use racist terms like a bunch of white boys.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978151
09/13/19 10:49 AM
09/13/19 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Same thing with Danny Greene and the celtica Club in Cleveland in the 1970s.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: FrankValenti] #978152
09/13/19 10:50 AM
09/13/19 10:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by FrankValenti
Some tried.

In Rochester, the C-Team was comprised of mostly non-made associates. Headed by Tom Torpey and Tom Taylor, two former bodyguards to Rochester's slain underboss Sammy G Gingello, they attempted to take over control of rackets from the ruling crime family as it was weakened in the midst of a gang war during the early 1980s. They were successful in hiring "Mad Dog" Sullivan to whack a capo and they roughed up a few made guys, but for the most part they were unsuccessful, getting aired out by the mobsters first and locked up in a string of RICO indictments immediately after.


Same thing with Danny Greene and the Celtic Club in Cleveland in the 1970s.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Immortale] #978153
09/13/19 11:18 AM
09/13/19 11:18 AM
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Posts: 2,240
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Strax Offline
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Originally Posted by Immortale


Please don't use racist terms like a bunch of white boys.


Calling someone white is a racism these days? Oh my god


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978154
09/13/19 11:47 AM
09/13/19 11:47 AM
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Nitro Offline
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For Pittsburgh, Cleveland or SF, I think it's not unlikely that something has taken place.

For Pittsburgh example.
https://archive.triblive.com/news/o...hi-sentenced-to-probation/#axzz3qGTN5sVl

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Nitro] #978155
09/13/19 12:20 PM
09/13/19 12:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by Nitro
For Pittsburgh, Cleveland or SF, I think it's not unlikely that something has taken place.

For Pittsburgh example.
https://archive.triblive.com/news/o...hi-sentenced-to-probation/#axzz3qGTN5sVl


Only ecause the mob families in this cities was disbanded by the LE.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978158
09/13/19 01:58 PM
09/13/19 01:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 837
BarrettM Offline
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Joey Gallo was going to form his own crime family with all races. The Gallo Crew had always been large and Joey was recruiting latinos, blacks, and anyone who could fight. Of course he was killed shortly after.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: furio_from_naples] #978168
09/13/19 07:05 PM
09/13/19 07:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 136
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Nitro Offline
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Nitro  Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by Nitro
For Pittsburgh, Cleveland or SF, I think it's not unlikely that something has taken place.

For Pittsburgh example.
https://archive.triblive.com/news/o...hi-sentenced-to-probation/#axzz3qGTN5sVl


Only ecause the mob families in this cities was disbanded by the LE.


For Sure.

Another interesting question is whether members have set up a new cell somewhere.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Immortale] #978219
09/15/19 10:23 PM
09/15/19 10:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
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Neo Offline
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Originally Posted by Immortale
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by Primo
they knew all the rackets etc. if one fam aint gonna let you in for 20 plus years why not just say fuck it and round up all your other non made friends who have been trying to get made and move to like Honolulu or wherever and just fucking take that shit over for themselves?



They don't "know all the rackets". If they did they would have got their button.

A bunch of white boys can't just move to Honalulu and "take over shit". You've got powerful groups like the Sinaloa cartel, Chinese Triads and Yakuza that all have interests there. They ain't going to move aside for a bunch of second rate grease balls that couldn't get made.


Please don't use racist terms like a bunch of white boys.


lol you zero in on the term "white boys". But you ignore a direct racist slur ("grease balls") in my next sentence.

You're one twisted white boy





Last edited by Neo; 09/15/19 10:26 PM.
Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978221
09/15/19 10:28 PM
09/15/19 10:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,822
Where ever needed.
DuesPaid Offline
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Where ever needed.
They did not since they thrived to be in...In with the guys they knew , to be high level and in the neighborhood they were from to be seen as a success.
Get the Big Time.

However they would have been better off with a Civil service job and retiring in 20 with a check in mailbox every month.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Neo] #978225
09/16/19 02:56 AM
09/16/19 02:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 42
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Immortale Offline
Wiseguy
Immortale  Offline
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Wiseguy
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Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by Immortale
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by Primo
they knew all the rackets etc. if one fam aint gonna let you in for 20 plus years why not just say fuck it and round up all your other non made friends who have been trying to get made and move to like Honolulu or wherever and just fucking take that shit over for themselves?



They don't "know all the rackets". If they did they would have got their button.

A bunch of white boys can't just move to Honalulu and "take over shit". You've got powerful groups like the Sinaloa cartel, Chinese Triads and Yakuza that all have interests there. They ain't going to move aside for a bunch of second rate grease balls that couldn't get made.


Please don't use racist terms like a bunch of white boys.


lol you zero in on the term "white boys". But you ignore a direct racist slur ("grease balls") in my next sentence.

You're one twisted white boy






That's alright, Neo.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Nitro] #978226
09/16/19 04:39 AM
09/16/19 04:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
Originally Posted by Nitro
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by Nitro
For Pittsburgh, Cleveland or SF, I think it's not unlikely that something has taken place.

For Pittsburgh example.
https://archive.triblive.com/news/o...hi-sentenced-to-probation/#axzz3qGTN5sVl


Only ecause the mob families in this cities was disbanded by the LE.


For Sure.

Another interesting question is whether members have set up a new cell somewhere.


I think that after a mob family was disbanded by LE the remaining made men and the associates prefer to operate independently like cleveland associate bobby iannelli and his son that was arrested because ran a gambling ring.They continue to made money but doesnt have to give a part of $$$ to a capo or a boss.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978243
09/16/19 03:17 PM
09/16/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,425
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m2w Offline
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m2w  Offline
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it's very difficult to form an own family without the consent of other families or the commission and when this happens it triggers war (i bet this is the main reason of the big mafia war in canada)

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: m2w] #978244
09/16/19 04:19 PM
09/16/19 04:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by m2w
it's very difficult to form an own family without the consent of other families or the commission and when this happens it triggers war (i bet this is the main reason of the big mafia war in canada)


The Commission doesnt exist anymore and after Apalachin was only a NY thing. If sone criminals with an italian surnames want to create a mob family,for sure doesnt had to fear a war with the remaining 9 mob families apart if they would try to go in its territories.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: furio_from_naples] #978250
09/16/19 05:14 PM
09/16/19 05:14 PM
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Posts: 2,425
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m2w Offline
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m2w  Offline
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples

The Commission doesnt exist anymore and after Apalachin was only a NY thing. If sone criminals with an italian surnames want to create a mob family,for sure doesnt had to fear a war with the remaining 9 mob families apart if they would try to go in its territories.


there is always some sort of commission in the lcn circles, there is no way somebody starts a mafia family without be recognized, he could form an ordinary gang at most, a street gang,and that's all

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: m2w] #978276
09/17/19 06:19 AM
09/17/19 06:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples

The Commission doesnt exist anymore and after Apalachin was only a NY thing. If sone criminals with an italian surnames want to create a mob family,for sure doesnt had to fear a war with the remaining 9 mob families apart if they would try to go in its territories.


there is always some sort of commission in the lcn circles, there is no way somebody starts a mafia family without be recognized, he could form an ordinary gang at most, a street gang,and that's all


I doubt that if someone would rebuilt a mob family in Cleveland should ask the ok to NY if this guys made money only in Cleveland and in Ohio.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978278
09/17/19 10:15 AM
09/17/19 10:15 AM
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Posts: 2,240
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Strax Offline
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This thread is extremely pointless, a Gambino associate just can't say: "Hey guys,fuck this, im forming my own family" , it doesn't work that way.


For example you are not associated with any of families in US , you could get like 15-20 guys and go to some neutral territory and form a family and in 5 years MAX the feds will lock you all up and you are gone. As it has happened with Albanians in NYC.

Last edited by Strax; 09/17/19 10:15 AM.

"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Strax] #978279
09/17/19 10:19 AM
09/17/19 10:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 42
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Immortale Offline
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Immortale  Offline
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Wiseguy
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Originally Posted by Strax
This thread is extremely pointless, a Gambino associate just can't say: "Hey guys,fuck this, im forming my own family" , it doesn't work that way.


For example you are not associated with any of families in US , you could get like 15-20 guys and go to some neutral territory and form a family and in 5 years MAX the feds will lock you all up and you are gone. As it has happened with Albanians in NYC.


Why though? Who says these 20 guys can't get away with it?

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Immortale] #978296
09/17/19 12:56 PM
09/17/19 12:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by Immortale
Originally Posted by Strax
This thread is extremely pointless, a Gambino associate just can't say: "Hey guys,fuck this, im forming my own family" , it doesn't work that way.


For example you are not associated with any of families in US , you could get like 15-20 guys and go to some neutral territory and form a family and in 5 years MAX the feds will lock you all up and you are gone. As it has happened with Albanians in NYC.


Why though? Who says these 20 guys can't get away with it?


Because the Feds thanks to the RICO can disband the organization so little that can be to be easily incriminated,like the Rudaj orgazation that at its peak had 20 members while the biggest organization can be incriminated with only a trial.The mob families out NY died because after the big guys went in jail there was nodoby to replace them; plus in the US if someone will form a "stable organization" better if is mob family will immediately end up on the radar of the feds who will try to dismantle it.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978303
09/17/19 01:50 PM
09/17/19 01:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 903
blueracing347 Offline
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blueracing347  Offline
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Sammy the bull tried to start his own family and he was once an underboss.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: blueracing347] #978306
09/17/19 02:56 PM
09/17/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by blueracing347
Sammy the bull tried to start his own family and he was once an underboss.


Gravanno was a fucking rat and runned a ecstasy ring,nothing more while Michael Rizzitello asked the gambinos in 1986 for create a family but they said no,anyway was able to run an independent crew under L.A. family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Rizzitello

Quote
When Rizzitello was released from prison in early 1986, Peter Milano had became the new boss of the Los Angeles crime family. While Milano and Rizzitello had worked together in the 1970s, they now had a distant relationship. Rizzitello then went to the Gambino crime family in New York City to seek permission to start his own crime family in California, but it never came to be. However, he was able to run an independent crew under Milano's family.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Strax] #978308
09/17/19 03:39 PM
09/17/19 03:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 400
It's cold in the north
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Primo Offline OP
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Primo  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Strax
This thread is extremely pointless, a Gambino associate just can't say: "Hey guys,fuck this, im forming my own family" , it doesn't work that way.


For example you are not associated with any of families in US , you could get like 15-20 guys and go to some neutral territory and form a family and in 5 years MAX the feds will lock you all up and you are gone. As it has happened with Albanians in NYC.



Sorry guys for posting such pointless thread haha. I will from now only post about John Gotti


I've walked along the red canal of mars
I've known kings and king makers
Poets painters and paupers
I've danced danced on the rings of Saturn
Still your pilgrim soul is the only thing that ever mattered
Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978311
09/17/19 04:29 PM
09/17/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
Originally Posted by Primo
Originally Posted by Strax
This thread is extremely pointless, a Gambino associate just can't say: "Hey guys,fuck this, im forming my own family" , it doesn't work that way.


For example you are not associated with any of families in US , you could get like 15-20 guys and go to some neutral territory and form a family and in 5 years MAX the feds will lock you all up and you are gone. As it has happened with Albanians in NYC.



Sorry guys for posting such pointless thread haha. I will from now only post about John Gotti


Not so pointless Primo.The US is not Canada and was only Frank Valenti that managed to create his own family splitting from Buffalo mob but that was before the Rico and the better the FBI declare war to the mob.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Strax] #978315
09/17/19 05:56 PM
09/17/19 05:56 PM
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Posts: 136
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Nitro Offline
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Nitro  Offline
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Originally Posted by Strax
This thread is extremely pointless, a Gambino associate just can't say: "Hey guys,fuck this, im forming my own family" , it doesn't work that way.


For example you are not associated with any of families in US , you could get like 15-20 guys and go to some neutral territory and form a family and in 5 years MAX the feds will lock you all up and you are gone. As it has happened with Albanians in NYC.


Strongly Disagree! Without Murder no Feds. In neutral territory the FED have other problems.Since 2000 how many Fed case in neutral territory against OC groups (No Gangs, MC ) you know ? We saw not much RICO case.

This Thread is not pointless but we had not much information.

Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978316
09/17/19 05:58 PM
09/17/19 05:58 PM
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Strax Offline
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Post about John Gotti ? I never even discuss about him , im much more focused on Italian mafia groups in Italy. I did not mean the question you asked to be pointless , but conversation we are having here , we are not getting anywhere with this

@Nitro: Look what happened to Albanians and any other small groups,they were all done in 5 years or so. This is not the golden age of mafia anymore, small groups stick around for a very short time.

Last edited by Strax; 09/17/19 06:01 PM.

"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Why didnt associates just form their own families? [Re: Primo] #978319
09/17/19 06:25 PM
09/17/19 06:25 PM
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Posts: 400
It's cold in the north
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Primo Offline OP
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Sorry Strax I wasn't trying to start trouble just joking around. I agree the FEDS make it hard for any non established criminal entity to get its feet off the ground. Depends on if you can stay off their radar also


I've walked along the red canal of mars
I've known kings and king makers
Poets painters and paupers
I've danced danced on the rings of Saturn
Still your pilgrim soul is the only thing that ever mattered
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