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Buffalo Mob #976036
07/29/19 01:01 PM
07/29/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.com/search/label/Buffalo?updated-max=2017-11-07T03:51:00-08:00&max-results=20&start=2&by-date=false

Amoia-Sam Sol
BiFulco-Frank 1945 Capo
Bordonaro-Ignazio Harold 1950 Canada
Brindisi-Pasquale Paddy 1942 Utica
Cannizzaro-Annunzio Red
Carcone-Russell 1954 Capo Utica
Cardinale-Ronald
Caruso-Corrado Cookie Canada
Chimera-Robert
Cipolla-Frank Canada
Cipolla-Paul* Canada

Corelli-Phillip 1963 Utica
Criminisi-Ralph Canada
DePaolo-Bruno* Bronzie 1967 Canada
DePaolo-Joseph* Joey Dips Canada
DePaolo-Michael* Canada

Falzone-Frank* 1950-
Feliciano-James 1977 Utica
Ferraro-Frank 1943 Utica
Giglia-William 1946
Inserra-Anthony 1946 Utica
Italiano-Dominic 1990- Capo Canada
Lombardo-Vincent Canada
Luppino-Anthony* Canada
Luppino-John Canada
Luppino-Natale Canada
Luppino-Rocco Canada

Mambrino-Carmen 1969
Marino-Frank 1940 Utica
Minicone-Jack 1948 Utica
Monaco-Bruno Canada
Nappi-Donato Dan 1943-
Papalia-Frank 1930 Canada
Papalia-Rocco 1935 Canada
Perri-Frank Canada
Pugliese-Anthony Canada
Pugliese-Joseph 1990- Capo Canada
Pugliese-Pasquale* Canada

Randazzo-Joseph Sol
Volpe-Albert Canada


Its just a point to start,some names are of members of Luppino and Papalia families that are indipendent so only there are only 19 alleged buffalo mafia members.

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 07/29/19 01:02 PM.
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976037
07/29/19 01:26 PM
07/29/19 01:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,425
M
m2w Offline
Underboss
m2w  Offline
M
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,425
rocco and natale luppino are members of buffalo family

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976205
08/01/19 06:31 AM
08/01/19 06:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
https://www.cosanostranews.com/2017/11/is-buffalo-cosa-nostra-family-mafias.html?m=1

Is Buffalo Cosa Nostra Family the Mafia's Dark Horse?
By Ed Scarpo Tuesday, November 21, 2017 1 Comment
Based on a recent bust involving members of the Gambino and Bonanno crime families in which more than a dozen alleged members and associates of organized crime were arrested as part of a sweeping investigation into the fentanyl trade in Canada and New York, it seems the Buffalo crew is alive and well.

Or was....

The following information was sent from a source.

In indicates that the Buffalo crime family is definitely larger and more organized than many have believed.



Last week's bust no doubt has taken a toll on the crime family. Yet who'd have guessed its heft? And if could be big, who else is thriving in the US, off the radar....?

Boss
Frank BiFulco

Underboss
Joe Violi (Canada Faction)

Consigliere
Victor Sansanese

Capos
Frank Falzone-
Buffalo,
Six soldiers, took over BiFulco crew.

Anthony Todaro
Buffalo,
Eight soldiers, took over when his brother Joe Jr retired.

Natale Luppino
Hamilton, Canada,
Nine soldiers, took over crew when Violi was moved up to Underboss, who in turn had taken over when Vincent Luppino passed away in 2009.

Bruno Monaco
Toronto, Canada
Five soldiers, took over when Dante Gasbarrini passed away. Gasbarrini became Capo when Paul Volpe was killed, and to get away from Giacomo Luppino and John Papalia of Hamilton.

Russell Carcone
Utica
Six soldiers

Loren Piccarreto/Anthony Chirico- Rochester,
Five soldiers.

When Thomas Marotta came back in the 1990's, he decided to join the Bonanno family and took half of the independent family with him to the Bonanno family. After what happened up in Hamiliton with John Papalia, Rene Piccarreto decided to be more friendlier with Buffalo. When Joe "Lead Pipe Joe" Todaro retired in 2006, Angelo Amico decided to rejoin the Buffalo Family.

Robert Panaro
Las Vegas
No soldiers, Panaro is direct with the family administration and other capos.

"About 12 to 15 members are retired," our source noted.

So about 40 made members are still active in Buffalo.

In light of all the busts and heat, that's something, you ask me.....

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976227
08/01/19 09:59 AM
08/01/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,338
M
MeyerLansky Offline
Underboss
MeyerLansky  Offline
M
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,338
so i guess they are here after all

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976228
08/01/19 09:59 AM
08/01/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,338
M
MeyerLansky Offline
Underboss
MeyerLansky  Offline
M
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,338
here and active

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: m2w] #976231
08/01/19 11:54 AM
08/01/19 11:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
Originally Posted by m2w
rocco and natale luppino are members of buffalo family


https://aboutthemafia.com/tag/natale-luppino

Online Source For Mafia News And Information
Montrealers charged in home invasion linked to Hamilton mobster Natale Luppino

May 2, 2019 By TheBoss

Hamilton mobster Natale Luppino is now at the center of a developing case into a violent home invasion that took place back in 2018.

Authorities have now charged four people from Montreal with attempted murder in connection with the attack at a home owned by Luppino. Natale also known as “Nat” is the uncle of Cece Luppino who was gunned down earlier this year at the home of his father Rocco Luppino. Natale and Rocco are believed to be the current leaders of the Luppino crime family one of Hamilton’s Calabrian crime families. The Luppino family and Musitano crime family are seemingly at the heart of the ongoing Hamilton mafia war. There has been plenty of speculation as to the motives behind the renewed violence and this link back to Montreal will most certainly lead to more questions and newly formed theories.

According to police, the incident happened back in April of 2018 when multiple men forced their way into the home. They made contact with two victims one of which was stabbed while the other was able to escape into the neighborhood. The still unidentified stabbing victim was treated at a local hospital and released. The three attackers fled the area in multiple vehicles one of which was being driven by a female getaway driver. It remains unclear as to whether or not Natale “Nat” Luppino was a target of the murder attempt. Police treated the incident as a home invasion and was offered little to no cooperation from those involved. The case went cold but was reopened in December after authorities in Hamilton obtained new information from police in Toronto and Peel according to a recent report from the Hamilton Spectator.

It’s still unclear as to exactly what new information was obtained but it led police to change the case from a home invasion into a murder investigation. It was just a month later in January that Cece Luppino was gunned down. Even though Cece is related to known mobsters he didn’t have a criminal past although his death along with the murder of Angelo Musitano and the recent assassination attempt against Pat Musitano have all been linked to the ongoing mafia war. After traveling to Montreal and obtaining new information Hamilton police arrested Marc Monette and Martine Villeneuve back on April 11.

The case continued to develop and two more suspects Charles Boucher-Savard and Jonathan Monette who were already in custody on unrelated matters were also charged on Wednesday. All the defendants have been charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault, and more. The men are not members of the mafia according to police but they are known in relation to street gang activity in Montreal. The Musitano family has flourished over recent years with the backing of Montreal’s Rizzuto crime family. The Rizzuto’s have fallen from grace after the death of Vito Rizzuto and their own bloody mob war leaving themselves and their allies vulnerable. But the Rizzuto’s have been known to contract local street and biker gangs to carry out various activities including these kinds of hits.

The question that will most certainly arise now is was this attack which went mostly unnoticed when it happened ordered by what remains of the Rizzuto’s in retaliation for the moves being made against the Musitano’s. Could this be a sign that at least a remaining faction of the mafia in Montreal still has a hand in what’s going on in Hamilton? Could new Rizzuto boss Stefano Sollecito be strong enough to make a move against the factions at war with their old Hamilton allies? Or maybe it’s simply a case of a Hamilton mafia family farming out some heavy lifting to some out of towners in an effort to stay anonymous?

What’s happened in Montreal has affected the organized crime landscape across the entire region including Hamilton and this could be one of the first direct links between the two conflicts.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976235
08/01/19 02:44 PM
08/01/19 02:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 350
Providence, RI
T
The_Marble_Guy Offline
Capo
The_Marble_Guy  Offline
T
Capo
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 350
Providence, RI
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
https://www.cosanostranews.com/2017/11/is-buffalo-cosa-nostra-family-mafias.html?m=1

Is Buffalo Cosa Nostra Family the Mafia's Dark Horse?
By Ed Scarpo Tuesday, November 21, 2017 1 Comment
Based on a recent bust involving members of the Gambino and Bonanno crime families in which more than a dozen alleged members and associates of organized crime were arrested as part of a sweeping investigation into the fentanyl trade in Canada and New York, it seems the Buffalo crew is alive and well.

Or was....

The following information was sent from a source.

In indicates that the Buffalo crime family is definitely larger and more organized than many have believed.



Last week's bust no doubt has taken a toll on the crime family. Yet who'd have guessed its heft? And if could be big, who else is thriving in the US, off the radar....?

Boss
Frank BiFulco

Underboss
Joe Violi (Canada Faction)

Consigliere
Victor Sansanese

Capos
Frank Falzone-
Buffalo,
Six soldiers, took over BiFulco crew.

Anthony Todaro
Buffalo,
Eight soldiers, took over when his brother Joe Jr retired.

Natale Luppino
Hamilton, Canada,
Nine soldiers, took over crew when Violi was moved up to Underboss, who in turn had taken over when Vincent Luppino passed away in 2009.

Bruno Monaco
Toronto, Canada
Five soldiers, took over when Dante Gasbarrini passed away. Gasbarrini became Capo when Paul Volpe was killed, and to get away from Giacomo Luppino and John Papalia of Hamilton.

Russell Carcone
Utica
Six soldiers

Loren Piccarreto/Anthony Chirico- Rochester,
Five soldiers.

When Thomas Marotta came back in the 1990's, he decided to join the Bonanno family and took half of the independent family with him to the Bonanno family. After what happened up in Hamiliton with John Papalia, Rene Piccarreto decided to be more friendlier with Buffalo. When Joe "Lead Pipe Joe" Todaro retired in 2006, Angelo Amico decided to rejoin the Buffalo Family.

Robert Panaro
Las Vegas
No soldiers, Panaro is direct with the family administration and other capos.

"About 12 to 15 members are retired," our source noted.

So about 40 made members are still active in Buffalo.

In light of all the busts and heat, that's something, you ask me.....



If Buffalo is that well structured right now, and has about 40 MADE guys, then they would be right under NYC/Chi on the pecking order. And you could make an argument of putting them ahead of Philly right now. Cause they'd have the one up as far as international reach over Philly.


" If you're going to be bad, be good at it "

Jerry Tillinghast
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: The_Marble_Guy] #976291
08/02/19 12:37 PM
08/02/19 12:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
Originally Posted by The_Marble_Guy
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
https://www.cosanostranews.com/2017/11/is-buffalo-cosa-nostra-family-mafias.html?m=1

Is Buffalo Cosa Nostra Family the Mafia's Dark Horse?
By Ed Scarpo Tuesday, November 21, 2017 1 Comment
Based on a recent bust involving members of the Gambino and Bonanno crime families in which more than a dozen alleged members and associates of organized crime were arrested as part of a sweeping investigation into the fentanyl trade in Canada and New York, it seems the Buffalo crew is alive and well.

Or was....

The following information was sent from a source.

In indicates that the Buffalo crime family is definitely larger and more organized than many have believed.



Last week's bust no doubt has taken a toll on the crime family. Yet who'd have guessed its heft? And if could be big, who else is thriving in the US, off the radar....?

Boss
Frank BiFulco

Underboss
Joe Violi (Canada Faction)

Consigliere
Victor Sansanese

Capos
Frank Falzone-
Buffalo,
Six soldiers, took over BiFulco crew.

Anthony Todaro
Buffalo,
Eight soldiers, took over when his brother Joe Jr retired.

Natale Luppino
Hamilton, Canada,
Nine soldiers, took over crew when Violi was moved up to Underboss, who in turn had taken over when Vincent Luppino passed away in 2009.

Bruno Monaco
Toronto, Canada
Five soldiers, took over when Dante Gasbarrini passed away. Gasbarrini became Capo when Paul Volpe was killed, and to get away from Giacomo Luppino and John Papalia of Hamilton.

Russell Carcone
Utica
Six soldiers

Loren Piccarreto/Anthony Chirico- Rochester,
Five soldiers.

When Thomas Marotta came back in the 1990's, he decided to join the Bonanno family and took half of the independent family with him to the Bonanno family. After what happened up in Hamiliton with John Papalia, Rene Piccarreto decided to be more friendlier with Buffalo. When Joe "Lead Pipe Joe" Todaro retired in 2006, Angelo Amico decided to rejoin the Buffalo Family.

Robert Panaro
Las Vegas
No soldiers, Panaro is direct with the family administration and other capos.

"About 12 to 15 members are retired," our source noted.

So about 40 made members are still active in Buffalo.

In light of all the busts and heat, that's something, you ask me.....



If Buffalo is that well structured right now, and has about 40 MADE guys, then they would be right under NYC/Chi on the pecking order. And you could make an argument of putting them ahead of Philly right now. Cause they'd have the one up as far as international reach over Philly.



I think that the family had more or less 30 made men as Violi said in wiretape.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976752
08/09/19 10:07 PM
08/09/19 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 194
J
JoeTadaro Offline
Made Member
JoeTadaro  Offline
J
Made Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 194
Joe Tadaro jr the most elusive boss of all time

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976774
08/10/19 09:35 AM
08/10/19 09:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci Offline
Underboss
LuanKuci  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
^Todaro

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976776
08/10/19 10:58 AM
08/10/19 10:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 350
Providence, RI
T
The_Marble_Guy Offline
Capo
The_Marble_Guy  Offline
T
Capo
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 350
Providence, RI
If they are in fact the dark horse of LCN, and are this structured in 2019, would you put them ahead of Philly on that second tier of families?


" If you're going to be bad, be good at it "

Jerry Tillinghast
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976808
08/10/19 06:25 PM
08/10/19 06:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci Offline
Underboss
LuanKuci  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
If I remember correctly, back in a 2018 Mob Talk video, Anastasia mentioned Philly having between 40 to 45 guys on the streets. Now I’m assuming he meant made guys. So if the 40-members estimate for Buffalo is correct then it’ll put W. NY below Philly, manpower-wise, even by a little.

That said, size isn’t always a fair indication of a group’s wealth and influence. Being an international crime family with half (?) of its members and operations on Canadian soil, Buffalo could be bringing in a lot of cash.

Philly is under the Genovese, while Buffalo is reportedly under the Bonanno...so that’s also a factor to consider.

Philly is a family we know a lot about, they get a ton of coverage and there are plenty of knowledgeable posters who share their info over here on a weekly basis.

Buffalo, on the other hand, is still a mystery to most. It’s unclear how/if they’re structured so it’s really hard to make assumptions.

Most people on this blog didn’t even believe they were still around until a year or so ago, and perhaps some still sorta don’t since the FBI has been mute about them.

With the frenzy going on in Ontario and Quebec it’s a matter of time until something more in-depth will come up.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976869
08/11/19 01:40 PM
08/11/19 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,338
M
MeyerLansky Offline
Underboss
MeyerLansky  Offline
M
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,338
if they are under the bonanno's
so how many guys do the bonanno's have ? 150-160 ?

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: MeyerLansky] #976872
08/11/19 02:56 PM
08/11/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
Originally Posted by MeyerLansky
if they are under the bonanno's
so how many guys do the bonanno's have ? 150-160 ?


http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/p/current-leadership-of-five-families.html?m=1

Between 110 and 120.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976887
08/11/19 06:11 PM
08/11/19 06:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,724
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
Underboss
Giacomo_Vacari  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,724
Larry's Bar
Bonanno about 120 to 130. I dont believe Buffalo is under the Bonanno family, as Buffalo also has maintained strong connections to the Colombo and Genovese crime families. It is a tactic many families outside New York and Chicago take, stay in touch with which ever family represented you on the commission, as well as another family on the commission, and other families that they do business with or close to there geographical location. This way if a topic comes up, the family knowns they would have at least two votes in their favor or able to bring an issue to the top families that they want to resolve but their representative family has its hands full on different matters. This also helps for a family to get recruits if they need them.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976906
08/12/19 04:16 AM
08/12/19 04:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,212
naples,italy
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Bonanno about 120 to 130. I dont believe Buffalo is under the Bonanno family, as Buffalo also has maintained strong connections to the Colombo and Genovese crime families. It is a tactic many families outside New York and Chicago take, stay in touch with which ever family represented you on the commission, as well as another family on the commission, and other families that they do business with or close to there geographical location. This way if a topic comes up, the family knowns they would have at least two votes in their favor or able to bring an issue to the top families that they want to resolve but their representative family has its hands full on different matters. This also helps for a family to get recruits if they need them.


If I remember well the bonannos put their flag on rochester and made tommy marotta or another associate of the defunct family. This for a place near the us canada border.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976942
08/13/19 03:33 AM
08/13/19 03:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci Offline
Underboss
LuanKuci  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
I seriously wonder what’s in Utica that makes a “crew” worthwhile...other than being close to Syracuse.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: LuanKuci] #976955
08/13/19 11:35 AM
08/13/19 11:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 350
Providence, RI
T
The_Marble_Guy Offline
Capo
The_Marble_Guy  Offline
T
Capo
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 350
Providence, RI
Originally Posted by LuanKuci
If I remember correctly, back in a 2018 Mob Talk video, Anastasia mentioned Philly having between 40 to 45 guys on the streets. Now I’m assuming he meant made guys. So if the 40-members estimate for Buffalo is correct then it’ll put W. NY below Philly, manpower-wise, even by a little.

That said, size isn’t always a fair indication of a group’s wealth and influence. Being an international crime family with half (?) of its members and operations on Canadian soil, Buffalo could be bringing in a lot of cash.

Philly is under the Genovese, while Buffalo is reportedly under the Bonanno...so that’s also a factor to consider.

Philly is a family we know a lot about, they get a ton of coverage and there are plenty of knowledgeable posters who share their info over here on a weekly basis.

Buffalo, on the other hand, is still a mystery to most. It’s unclear how/if they’re structured so it’s really hard to make assumptions.

Most people on this blog didn’t even believe they were still around until a year or so ago, and perhaps some still sorta don’t since the FBI has been mute about them.

With the frenzy going on in Ontario and Quebec it’s a matter of time until something more in-depth will come up.


For argument sake If Buffalo and Philly had the same amount of members/structure, would the international reach of Buffalo be enough to notch them above Philly? I know Philly gets a ton of coverage, but if Buffalo had as much coverage and with the Canadian element, it could put them a step up.


" If you're going to be bad, be good at it "

Jerry Tillinghast
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: The_Marble_Guy] #976956
08/13/19 12:12 PM
08/13/19 12:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 203
K1NG6 Offline
Made Member
K1NG6  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 203
Originally Posted by The_Marble_Guy
For argument sake If Buffalo and Philly had the same amount of members/structure, would the international reach of Buffalo be enough to notch them above Philly? I know Philly gets a ton of coverage, but if Buffalo had as much coverage and with the Canadian element, it could put them a step up.


If (and this is a HUGE IF) Buffalo actually has a similar amount of members and structure, then yes. Their ties into Canada and international drug trafficking would put them ahead of Philadelphia.

However, for arguments sake ... do you really think that a family that law enforcement has believed to be dead for 10+ years really has 35-40 secret made members and has been able to stay off the radar all of this time? Or, would it make more sense that Violi was possibly bullshitting on the phone and propping himself up to sound bigger than he really was? I'd personally go with that instead of him actually being the underboss. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying there aren't remnants in Buffalo operating the traditional rackets ... I believe there is. I just don't believe they are a formally structured family with 35-40 secretive members.

Until more solid proof or evidence comes out regarding Buffalo, you really can't compare them to Philadelphia at this point. It is a fact that Philly is a recognized LCN family with 35 or more known made members out on the streets, with even more in prison. They may not be as active as the Scarfo era and we may not know the administration or who holds what title, but they are there. The FBI continues to try and bring racketeering indictments against them year after year.

Buffalo? Not so much. The FBI has all but declared them extinct, and while I don't totally agree with that term, I'm more willing to accept what comes from law enforcement in the last decade over internet speculation. There has been nothing to come out that proves they are an active and structured family other than the wiretap of Violi claiming to be named underboss. I could declare myself underboss of an extinct family like San Jose and who would be around to dispute it?

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976958
08/13/19 01:31 PM
08/13/19 01:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,724
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
Underboss
Giacomo_Vacari  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,724
Larry's Bar
The cyclops, Pizza Jack, and Dan would dispute that K1NG6. That family has been disbanded since 1995, still some members left. Salvatore Marino called for a vote to reestablish the family once he was released from prison, but was voted down in 1999. Many members did not like what was happening in New York City at the time, did not like two of the sitting bosses at the time nor did they trust two other bosses at the time.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: K1NG6] #976961
08/13/19 02:31 PM
08/13/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 136
N
Nitro Offline
Made Member
Nitro  Offline
N
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by K1NG6

]....
Until more solid proof or evidence comes out regarding Buffalo....
.......The FBI has all but declared them extinct, and while I don't totally agree with that term, I'm more willing to accept what comes from law enforcement in the last decade over internet speculation. There has been nothing to come out that proves they are an active and structured family other than the wiretap of Violi claiming to be named underboss. I could declare myself underboss of an extinct family like San Jose and who would be around to dispute it?


Can you tell me why they FBI should have knowledge about a thing that they don't believe it exists?
I give you a short historical example. Hoover gainsaid that a national wide group don't exist. From 30's to 1957 they can work mostly in the shadows. After Appalachian Meeting the FBI start to change his minds. But in 1980's 90's the go back to his old thinking. So why should FBI know something about a local mob development?
We saw huge social changes in Buffalo and other city’s. Union's lost a lot power. So maybe typical labour racketeering isn't a key activity for a Buffalo Mob. Like the Ndrangheta today don't work at the kidnapping business.

We should start to ask people from Buffalo and other places. Not the FBI.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: K1NG6] #976962
08/13/19 03:09 PM
08/13/19 03:09 PM
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Providence, RI
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The_Marble_Guy Offline
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Originally Posted by K1NG6
Originally Posted by The_Marble_Guy
For argument sake If Buffalo and Philly had the same amount of members/structure, would the international reach of Buffalo be enough to notch them above Philly? I know Philly gets a ton of coverage, but if Buffalo had as much coverage and with the Canadian element, it could put them a step up.


If (and this is a HUGE IF) Buffalo actually has a similar amount of members and structure, then yes. Their ties into Canada and international drug trafficking would put them ahead of Philadelphia.

However, for arguments sake ... do you really think that a family that law enforcement has believed to be dead for 10+ years really has 35-40 secret made members and has been able to stay off the radar all of this time? Or, would it make more sense that Violi was possibly bullshitting on the phone and propping himself up to sound bigger than he really was? I'd personally go with that instead of him actually being the underboss. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying there aren't remnants in Buffalo operating the traditional rackets ... I believe there is. I just don't believe they are a formally structured family with 35-40 secretive members.

Until more solid proof or evidence comes out regarding Buffalo, you really can't compare them to Philadelphia at this point. It is a fact that Philly is a recognized LCN family with 35 or more known made members out on the streets, with even more in prison. They may not be as active as the Scarfo era and we may not know the administration or who holds what title, but they are there. The FBI continues to try and bring racketeering indictments against them year after year.

Buffalo? Not so much. The FBI has all but declared them extinct, and while I don't totally agree with that term, I'm more willing to accept what comes from law enforcement in the last decade over internet speculation. There has been nothing to come out that proves they are an active and structured family other than the wiretap of Violi claiming to be named underboss. I could declare myself underboss of an extinct family like San Jose and who would be around to dispute it?



I agree, its def hard to compare them to Philly based on Philly being recognized in 2019 as an active family. Could it be Buffalo is still an operation hub mixed in with money coming in from Canada? Possibly. So the FBI or local law enforcement could be downplaying them as labeling extinct. IMO I feel that whenever law enforcement addresses LCN now a days its always the usual bs of " theres not much left " or " its not what it use to be ". Then theres a 50 person bust a week later lol.


" If you're going to be bad, be good at it "

Jerry Tillinghast
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976964
08/13/19 04:03 PM
08/13/19 04:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci Offline
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LuanKuci  Offline
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Agreeable points.

Still, if the feds were to admit that they didn’t in fact manage to get rid of the LCN in Buffalo they’ll look like a bunch of lying pr*cks.

They’ve literally boosted their image thanks to that achievement.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976965
08/13/19 04:22 PM
08/13/19 04:22 PM
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majicrat Offline
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I for one believe the family is strong and probably has between 20 to 35 made members (I also believe they've never been extinct). They were slowed and knocked down, but not extinct. While authorities focused on NY/Boston and Chicago, Philly, Detroit and Buffalo learned lessons about what not to do and what a secret society was and should be doing which allowed them to regroup and be productive criminal organizations. Ligambi went old school under the radar and no reason Buffalo and Detroit didn't do the same. There's money to be made, the mob knows how to make it. Just my opinion.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976968
08/13/19 05:36 PM
08/13/19 05:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 102
Rochester/Pittsburgh
FrankValenti Offline
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Rochester/Pittsburgh
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
[quote=Giacomo_Vacari]
If I remember well the bonannos put their flag on rochester and made tommy marotta or another associate of the defunct family. This for a place near the us canada border.


Correct. Tommy Marotta aligned himself with the Bonannos after he got out of prison in 1996. He actually tried to revive the Rochester family, but was pinched in the early 2000s when he started getting into drug trafficking. A Cleveland associate who Marotta befriended in prison named Anthony Delmonti wore a wire and started working as an informant around this time. He went to Rochester on FBI orders to tail Marotta as the Feds suspected he'd attempt a revival. There was debate of whether government interference was borderline entrapment and they used an informant to coax Marotta back into a life of crime. Who knows what his true intentions would've been if left alone, but the fact remains one of the wiretaps from this investigation picked up an initiation ceremony that involved Marotta declaring himself boss and making Delmonti into Rochester. Marotta went away again in 2003 for moving cocaine Upstate. He is back on the streets now though. Some say he's active again. Can't say for sure.

On the topic of the Bonannos, they've always had interests in Rochester. The city was always Buffalo territory, but influence on the streets was mixed. Magaddino, LaRocca and Joe Bonanno each had a certain amount of pull during the '60s. Rene Picarreto was once named as a Bonanno soldier on a government chart and I recall reading transcripts that Bonanno went to bat for Rochester to the commission when the Buffalo war was going on, which resulted in Rochester splitting into an independent family.

Just one personal anecdote on Buffalo; I know someone who used to work for La Nova Pizzeria as a delivery driver. This person says they would be handed envelopes stuffed with cash and told to deliver them to whoever Joe asked them to, not necessarily customers. The recipients were always older Italian men. This person speculated it was gambling money. Keep in mind this was within the last 5 years so the Todaros definitely still have operations on the streets.

Last edited by FrankValenti; 08/13/19 05:43 PM.
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: majicrat] #976971
08/13/19 09:00 PM
08/13/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 203
K1NG6 Offline
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K1NG6  Offline
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Originally Posted by Nitro
Can you tell me why they FBI should have knowledge about a thing that they don't believe it exists? I give you a short historical example. Hoover gainsaid that a national wide group don't exist. From 30's to 1957 they can work mostly in the shadows. After Appalachian Meeting the FBI start to change his minds.


To start off, I said in my first post that I believe there is still activity in Buffalo and that the bread and butter traditional LCN rackets are still being operated. I just don't believe they are a formally structured family with all of these unknown members that have been able to completely stay off of the radar from ALL of law enforcement. Maybe I will be proven wrong about Violi when more information comes out in the future, I just don't believe him when he claims Todaro made him the underboss. That's my personal opinion, it doesn't mean that either one of us is right or wrong. To your question, why should the FBI (or local law enforcement) have that information? Simply put, they have organized crime squads for that very reason. How do they know what they know about New York, or Philadelphia, or New England? Because they have agents assigned to investigate organized crime activity - it is their job to find out what is going on so they can bring cases and get convictions. If Buffalo was still a functioning LCN family with a hierarchy and 35-40 made guys out on the streets do you really think the FBI and local PD in Buffalo would just ignore it and claim that it has gone extinct? No, they would want the accolades of taking it down, just like LuanKuci said.

And Hoover was stubborn when it came to investigating the mob. They were able to work in the shadows because Hoover allowed them to by denying it's existence even though he knew it was there. He wanted to go after the Communists instead and he only wanted to focus on crimes that were easily solvable, such as auto theft and bank robberies. He wanted high conviction rates with easy cases. He knew mob investigations were too time consuming, too drawn out, and did not always end with an easy conviction like he liked. He was also worried about his agents being bribed and corrupted by gangsters. There was a great write up about this by Selwyn Raab in his book Five Families.


Originally Posted by majicrat
Ligambi went old school under the radar and no reason Buffalo and Detroit didn't do the same. There's money to be made, the mob knows how to make it. Just my opinion.


Not saying you are wrong because we all are entitled to our own opinions, and I agree with you on Ligambi. He restructured and rebuilt the family and did it low key, under the radar like the Bruno regime. My counter to that would be that the Philly PD and the FBI knew that Ligambi became the boss shortly after Merlino went away to prison and they still continued to investigate them. I don't think anyone in law enforcement declared the family dead or ignored them - it just took them until 2011 to actually bring an indictment against Ligambi. If Buffalo was functioning why would the FBI or Buffalo PD stop investigating them or declare them extinct just because Todaro went under the radar? Like I said, I'm sure there are guys on the streets making money with book making, gambling, loan sharking, and drugs and it's definitely possibly that Todaro is still active and involved with all of that. I just don't see them being a fully functioning LCN family with a hierarchy and all of these active made guys on the streets and somehow not be a priority for Buffalo PD or the FBI.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #976979
08/14/19 08:29 AM
08/14/19 08:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci Offline
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LuanKuci  Offline
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I do share K1NG6’s obvious skepticism but one thing I can’t seem to believe (even by today’s standards of underworld oddities) is Violi lying about being upped by JT.

It reads as such a risky move. Sure, he could have said it as a way to protect himself by letting people on the streets know that whoever messes with him will have to face the consequences of pissing off a higher up.

But in order for such threat to be effective, there is the need for Buffalo LCN to be an active and somehow still imposing entity.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: K1NG6] #976984
08/14/19 12:29 PM
08/14/19 12:29 PM
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Nitro Offline
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Originally Posted by K1NG6


"To start off, I said in my first post that I believe there is still activity in Buffalo and that the bread and butter traditional LCN rackets are still being operated. I just don't believe they are a formally structured family with all of these unknown members that have been able to completely stay off of the radar from ALL of law enforcement. "


I know my post wasn't against you. But i think FBI argument is weaker than it looks in the first moment.

Originally Posted by K1NG6

And Hoover was stubborn when it came to investigating the mob. They were able to work in the shadows because Hoover allowed them to by denying it's existence even though he knew it was there. He wanted to go after the Communists instead and he only wanted to focus on crimes that were easily solvable, such as auto theft and bank robberies. He wanted high conviction rates with easy cases. He knew mob investigations were too time consuming, too drawn out, and did not always end with an easy conviction like he liked. He was also worried about his agents being bribed and corrupted by gangsters. There was a great write up about this by Selwyn Raab in his book Five Families.


Communists = Islamists and crimes easily solvable = gangs. Something will never change...


Originally Posted by K1NG6

I just don't see them being a fully functioning LCN family with a hierarchy and all of these active made guys on the streets and somehow not be a priority for Buffalo PD or the FBI.


"Fully functioning LCN family" is a definition thing. Bufallo PD have alot to do with gangs and the FBI Bufallo is specializing in terrorism. FBI Bufallo weakens his main divison if the start to talk about OC.

So my case is the law enforcment argument is weaker as we think in the first moment.

Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: K1NG6] #976989
08/14/19 02:35 PM
08/14/19 02:35 PM
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Posts: 350
Providence, RI
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The_Marble_Guy Offline
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Providence, RI
Originally Posted by K1NG6

I just don't see them being a fully functioning LCN family with a hierarchy and all of these active made guys on the streets and somehow not be a priority for Buffalo PD or the FBI.


"Fully functioning LCN family" is a definition thing. Bufallo PD have alot to do with gangs and the FBI Bufallo is specializing in terrorism. FBI Bufallo weakens his main divison if the start to talk about OC.

So my case is the law enforcment argument is weaker as we think in the first moment.[/quote]

Absolutely a definition thing. Thats why I think that when todays law enforcement mentions anything to do with LCN they down play it. Either cause they don't know or they don't want to give the slightest hint that quite a few families in the country have laid low and have been able to rebuild over the last few years.



Originally Posted by majicrat
Ligambi went old school under the radar and no reason Buffalo and Detroit didn't do the same. There's money to be made, the mob knows how to make it. Just my opinion.



Great point. IMO I believe that the Canada has injected Buffalo with a lot of the old school ways again. Esp if there are made members living in Canada. With the influence of the Ndrangheta and the other groups up there who've traditionally answered and followed the Italian ways, maybe these groups don't impact them directly when it comes to business, rackets, etc. But I think like any business, you look at your competition and your finding what works for them and their success. They could be doing the same as Philly, staying low key, benefiting from limited media coverage/exposure, and rebuilding slowly. I think that Buffalo is a combination of the central hub for the family mixed with the Canadian element that is helping them gain ground again.

Last edited by The_Marble_Guy; 08/14/19 02:37 PM.

" If you're going to be bad, be good at it "

Jerry Tillinghast
Re: Buffalo Mob [Re: furio_from_naples] #977099
08/17/19 01:26 AM
08/17/19 01:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,529
Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, NYC
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BensonHURST Offline
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Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, NYC
Buffalo at its height depending on the source had approx. 300 made members and control over most of Canada.

So when the FBI says they are "ALL BUT DEAD"
It could have meant that compared to the size the family used to be, and the power and influence they had they have, "NOTHING" compared to that today.

That does NOT mean they meant Buffalo had "ZERO" members left.

If the day comes that he GAMBINO"S have only 20 guys left in the family
Could the FBI come out and say the GAMBINO's are DEAD??

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