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Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke #964309
02/19/19 10:12 PM
02/19/19 10:12 PM
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In the 1980s, the Medellin Cartel was clearly at the top of the criminal underworld. They controlled approximately around 80% of the global cocaine trade. I believe that the Sicilians controlled the heroin trade at the same time. And I have been told on here that they used to trade cocaine for heroin during that time and Escobar was actually heavily influenced by Toto Riina(which amazes me because the guy ran his organization into the ground with his blood thirsty ways). How much of the heroin trade did the Sicilians control? Were like the Medellin cartel equivalent except for heroin at that time, and what was more profitable? I’m going to guess cocaine as the cartel was making more cash.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964315
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I think that the cocaine trade and heroin trade are really different. At the time, when the Medellin cartel were the top cartel in the world, they were the producter of cocaine and the distributor.

While, for heroin, the italian mafia were probably the top distributor in america, but they were not producer of heroin.
The producer were people from asia. Countries like vietnam, thailand and afghanistan.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964316
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Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Blackmobs] #964323
02/20/19 01:55 AM
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Interesting article. This may have been around the time that the Sicilians started to falter a little so I can see the chinese jumping at the chance of distributing some of their product directly to the customer instead of through a middleman(the Sicilians). At one point the Sicilians did dominate heroin. It was really the ndrangheta as well as the casalesi clan who saw the future in cocaine and invested in it early on from what I read.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Blackmobs] #964325
02/20/19 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackmobs
I think that the cocaine trade and heroin trade are really different. At the time, when the Medellin cartel were the top cartel in the world, they were the producter of cocaine and the distributor.

While, for heroin, the italian mafia were probably the top distributor in america, but they were not producer of heroin.
The producer were people from asia. Countries like vietnam, thailand and afghanistan.


sicily was full of heroin labs at that time, the biggest produced 6 tons yearly, and it was distributed in both europe and united states
also, the colombians at that time had not a big networks of distributors like sicilians had in europe and united states, so the earnings diminished because the drug passed through too many hands

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964326
02/20/19 05:34 AM
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In the 1980s the opium come on sicily from Turkey and was transformed in heroin and distributed in america and europe. The sicilians lost the monopoly on heroin because the italian state hitted hard the drug traffickers and the drug labs in sicily and the coke slowly replaced heroin as more profitabe drug.
Plus in the late 1980s the mafia both in sicily and the USA was decimated by rats and killings and the american cousins decided to split by her cousins 'cause Riina violence.
While the chinese mafia was more tight and efficient.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964331
02/20/19 06:34 AM
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In Europe, Chinese OC has always been involved in heroin in a major way. From as early as the 70's, big time drug dealers from the Netherlands, France, Belgium...made frequent trips to Chinese restaurants in Amsterdam to get their heroin supply. The Cantonese 14K Triad had a lot of power in that business in the early 70's, but when law enforcement started to close in on the Cantonese, the Singapore-based Ah Kong came into play. The Ah Kong filled the void the 14K left had most of the Chinese heroin trade in Europe down from the mid 70's to the mid 80's. Although they were regarded as a Singapore-based Triad, its members had mostly roots in the Fujian province and family members who lived in for instance Mainland China and Malaysia were part of the Triad as well. Unlike the Hong Kong-based Triads, the Ah Kong has gone supposedly extinct, but they were an extremely powerful (and extremely vicious) Triad in their prime. They were a source of heroin for tons of traffickers throughout Europe and I'm willing to bet that most of the heroin in Brussels (which was a huge heroin market those days) could be traced back to them.

The Sicilian mafia was definitely involved in heroin as well, but in Europe I don't think they were as big as a source as the Chinese were in the 70's and 80's. Especially from the mid 70's to mid 80's with the Corleone-Palermo conflict, a lot of European traffickers did business with the Chinese instead. The USA is a different story.

The role of the Corsicans, even during the 70's and 80's, isn't to be underestimated either when it comes to the European heroin business. Even though the days of the "French Connection" were long gone, they were definitely still involved. They hid very well, but in the Brussels area there were dodgy characters from the Corsican underworld active. There are reports of a local criminal being sighted with one or two Corsicans at some cafe only to float up dead a week later in a place as far away as Le Havre.
I remember a story my uncle (who's from the Brussels region) told me that in the 70's he had some shady neighbor who he had seen talking with a few Corsicans repeatedly for some time. One day the guy packed his bags, left Brussels and supposedly moved to the South of France. A few weeks later they allegedly found his charred corpse with a bullet in the brain in the trunk of some burned-out car. Almost as if being sighted with a Corsican was an impending death sentence for mid-level criminals in those days.

The Colombian community was never as huge in Europe and even the USA as the Italian community is, but they definitely had their distribution cells. In Amsterdam in the late 70's and throughout the 80's there were Colombian criminals hiding who could provide the necessary. In the USA, especially on the East Coast, there were Colombian crime groups active in the wholesaling of cocaine. Lots of them in the Miami area and quite a few in New York as well.

In Europe the hashish business was under the control of the Dutch criminal organizations in the 70's and 80's. Even before Klaas Bruinsma you had Piet Clement and Henk Rommy ("The Black Cobra", a Surinamese guy, but his entourage was largely Dutch) who were behind enormous hashish transports. Piet Clement for instance used the Antwerp port to smuggle in tons of hashish in containers filled with entrails for the slaughterhouses.

The 70's and the 80's were shady as hell.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964335
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Good summary TKJ, don't forget the Russians they have always been involved in heroin.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964340
02/20/19 09:19 AM
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Never knew the Chinese were huge in heroin to that extent. Makes me ask why they weren’t talked about as much as the Sicilians when it came to heroin trafficking. Every documentary I see on it, they say Sicily was raking in most of the heroin profits as well as controlling most of the heroin trade.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: TheKillingJoke] #964341
02/20/19 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
In Europe, Chinese OC has always been involved in heroin in a major way. From as early as the 70's, big time drug dealers from the Netherlands, France, Belgium...made frequent trips to Chinese restaurants in Amsterdam to get their heroin supply. The Cantonese 14K Triad had a lot of power in that business in the early 70's, but when law enforcement started to close in on the Cantonese, the Singapore-based Ah Kong came into play. The Ah Kong filled the void the 14K left had most of the Chinese heroin trade in Europe down from the mid 70's to the mid 80's. Although they were regarded as a Singapore-based Triad, its members had mostly roots in the Fujian province and family members who lived in for instance Mainland China and Malaysia were part of the Triad as well. Unlike the Hong Kong-based Triads, the Ah Kong has gone supposedly extinct, but they were an extremely powerful (and extremely vicious) Triad in their prime. They were a source of heroin for tons of traffickers throughout Europe and I'm willing to bet that most of the heroin in Brussels (which was a huge heroin market those days) could be traced back to them.

The Sicilian mafia was definitely involved in heroin as well, but in Europe I don't think they were as big as a source as the Chinese were in the 70's and 80's. Especially from the mid 70's to mid 80's with the Corleone-Palermo conflict, a lot of European traffickers did business with the Chinese instead. The USA is a different story.

The role of the Corsicans, even during the 70's and 80's, isn't to be underestimated either when it comes to the European heroin business. Even though the days of the "French Connection" were long gone, they were definitely still involved. They hid very well, but in the Brussels area there were dodgy characters from the Corsican underworld active. There are reports of a local criminal being sighted with one or two Corsicans at some cafe only to float up dead a week later in a place as far away as Le Havre.
I remember a story my uncle (who's from the Brussels region) told me that in the 70's he had some shady neighbor who he had seen talking with a few Corsicans repeatedly for some time. One day the guy packed his bags, left Brussels and supposedly moved to the South of France. A few weeks later they allegedly found his charred corpse with a bullet in the brain in the trunk of some burned-out car. Almost as if being sighted with a Corsican was an impending death sentence for mid-level criminals in those days.

The Colombian community was never as huge in Europe and even the USA as the Italian community is, but they definitely had their distribution cells. In Amsterdam in the late 70's and throughout the 80's there were Colombian criminals hiding who could provide the necessary. In the USA, especially on the East Coast, there were Colombian crime groups active in the wholesaling of cocaine. Lots of them in the Miami area and quite a few in New York as well.

In Europe the hashish business was under the control of the Dutch criminal organizations in the 70's and 80's. Even before Klaas Bruinsma you had Piet Clement and Henk Rommy ("The Black Cobra", a Surinamese guy, but his entourage was largely Dutch) who were behind enormous hashish transports. Piet Clement for instance used the Antwerp port to smuggle in tons of hashish in containers filled with entrails for the slaughterhouses.

The 70's and the 80's were shady as hell.


Great overview. My only question is, why did the Ndrangheta go to the Chinese for heroin exactly? Couldn’t they have just gotten it from the sicilians? Or did they want to get their supply straight from the source instead?

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964343
02/20/19 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Never knew the Chinese were huge in heroin to that extent. Makes me ask why they weren’t talked about as much as the Sicilians when it came to heroin trafficking. Every documentary I see on it, they say Sicily was raking in most of the heroin profits as well as controlling most of the heroin trade.

Really? They made their own brand that has been killing people for years now, 'China White' is fentanyl not heroin. And it's been coming into this country for 100 years now.
Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
In Europe, Chinese OC has always been involved in heroin in a major way. From as early as the 70's, big time drug dealers from the Netherlands, France, Belgium...made frequent trips to Chinese restaurants in Amsterdam to get their heroin supply. The Cantonese 14K Triad had a lot of power in that business in the early 70's, but when law enforcement started to close in on the Cantonese, the Singapore-based Ah Kong came into play. The Ah Kong filled the void the 14K left had most of the Chinese heroin trade in Europe down from the mid 70's to the mid 80's. Although they were regarded as a Singapore-based Triad, its members had mostly roots in the Fujian province and family members who lived in for instance Mainland China and Malaysia were part of the Triad as well. Unlike the Hong Kong-based Triads, the Ah Kong has gone supposedly extinct, but they were an extremely powerful (and extremely vicious) Triad in their prime. They were a source of heroin for tons of traffickers throughout Europe and I'm willing to bet that most of the heroin in Brussels (which was a huge heroin market those days) could be traced back to them.

The Sicilian mafia was definitely involved in heroin as well, but in Europe I don't think they were as big as a source as the Chinese were in the 70's and 80's. Especially from the mid 70's to mid 80's with the Corleone-Palermo conflict, a lot of European traffickers did business with the Chinese instead. The USA is a different story.

The role of the Corsicans, even during the 70's and 80's, isn't to be underestimated either when it comes to the European heroin business. Even though the days of the "French Connection" were long gone, they were definitely still involved. They hid very well, but in the Brussels area there were dodgy characters from the Corsican underworld active. There are reports of a local criminal being sighted with one or two Corsicans at some cafe only to float up dead a week later in a place as far away as Le Havre.
I remember a story my uncle (who's from the Brussels region) told me that in the 70's he had some shady neighbor who he had seen talking with a few Corsicans repeatedly for some time. One day the guy packed his bags, left Brussels and supposedly moved to the South of France. A few weeks later they allegedly found his charred corpse with a bullet in the brain in the trunk of some burned-out car. Almost as if being sighted with a Corsican was an impending death sentence for mid-level criminals in those days.

The Colombian community was never as huge in Europe and even the USA as the Italian community is, but they definitely had their distribution cells. In Amsterdam in the late 70's and throughout the 80's there were Colombian criminals hiding who could provide the necessary. In the USA, especially on the East Coast, there were Colombian crime groups active in the wholesaling of cocaine. Lots of them in the Miami area and quite a few in New York as well.

In Europe the hashish business was under the control of the Dutch criminal organizations in the 70's and 80's. Even before Klaas Bruinsma you had Piet Clement and Henk Rommy ("The Black Cobra", a Surinamese guy, but his entourage was largely Dutch) who were behind enormous hashish transports. Piet Clement for instance used the Antwerp port to smuggle in tons of hashish in containers filled with entrails for the slaughterhouses.

The 70's and the 80's were shady as hell.


Great overview. My only question is, why did the Ndrangheta go to the Chinese for heroin exactly? Couldn’t they have just gotten it from the sicilians? Or did they want to get their supply straight from the source instead?


You wanna pay your buddy around the corner $3500 for a pound of loud or, drive a day or two and pay $1000?

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Hollander] #964344
02/20/19 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Good summary TKJ, don't forget the Russians they have always been involved in heroin.


In this case I can only speak for Belgium, but large scale Russian involvement in heroin was only reported in the early to mid 90's in Antwerp. You had the group around Boris Nayfeld and Rachmiel Brandwain that supposedly imported and distributed millions worth of heroin in the Antwerp area. Later on there was also the involvement of the Abraham Melikhov and his clan; they distributed the stuff as well as used it to get the prostitutes addicted who worked for them.
Heroin was just part of the activity for the Russians. In reality most of them in Antwerp were Jews from Ukraine, Belarus and Georgia who had Israeli passports. Antwerp has a large Jewish community so they just tried to blend in and even "bought" themselves in. Lots of honest Jewish shopkeepers were offered insane amounts of money to hand over their establishments that the mafiosi could use to launder their illicit proceeds. If they couldn't be bought out, they were kicked out. The Russian criminals got busy with heroin trafficking, prostitution, forgery, theft...

The Netherlands has always been a major wholesale distribution point in that regard. A lot of crime firms from the Southeast, Merseyside, Glasgow or Dublin for instance travel to the Netherlands to make huge heroin deals. All the while in the UK there are definitely a lot of Indian and Pakistani groups in places like Luton, Middlesbrough, Bradford...as well as Kurdish groups in North London that are able to get in a lot of smack. Yet it seems that Scouse and Irish criminals in particular still prefer to do business with the groups that are active in the Netherlands.

The heroin business in the Netherlands knows many actors who come and go only to show up again when another type of group gets caught. When the power of Ah Kong was severely diminished, you had the Serbian clans that supplied a lot of the heroin market in the late 80's to early 90's. Sreten Jocic, connected to the Surcin clan, was of course the most famous of them, but others like the Zemun clan definitely showed up in Amsterdam as well.
Then when the spotlights were on the Serbs, the Turks cornered most of the market. At first the Black Sea-based groups, like the Oflu clan, carried on their heroin business (they had already been active since the late 90's in the Netherlands, at the same time the Serbs were), but when things got a bit too heated for the Turks you had a lot of Southeast Anatolia-based Kurdish groups that were moving tons of smack up until the early 2000's. Many of them were also connected to the Baybasin clan.
When the Kurds got nicked, I think it were the Albanians that came to prominence since the early 2000's in the heroin business. These days it seems a lot of Albanian groups are getting caught as well so who knows who's next to step in. None of those groups ever completely quit the smack business. They stay active in some way and slow down whenever law enforcement turns their interest on them.

The heroin business in Western Europe isn't as huge as the cocaine business. Come to think of it, it's crazy when I realize how many cocaine users I know personally while I don't know anyone who's addicted to heroin. In the bigger cities the demand is still there though. And that demand is still big enough to make sure there's more than a few groups that can get wealthy enough off heroin alone.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964345
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Good infos guys.

Look like the heroin trade was more diverse than the cocaine trade.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964346
02/20/19 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island

Great overview. My only question is, why did the Ndrangheta go to the Chinese for heroin exactly? Couldn’t they have just gotten it from the sicilians? Or did they want to get their supply straight from the source instead?


It wasn't specifically the Ndrangheta. The Ndrangheta were definitely already active in the Brussels region in the late 70's/early 80's but they weren't as huge as they're now. Back then the direct Ndrangheta operations in Belgium were mostly active in tobacco smuggling; which then was an area most criminals didn't consider yet. When it comes to heroin in those days, at least in Brussels, the Ndrangheta wasn't a major player.

The biggest distributors of heroin in the early 80's in Brussels were, believe it or not, French. The biggest fish got his heroin - which was then more common than cocaine - from the Chinese (the Ah Kong Triad - for which his group first travelled to Amsterdam and later on most of the business was conducted in Bangkok), his cocaine from the Italians (a member of his group was caught in Rome while smuggling cocaine, presumably from the Ndrangheta), his hashish from the local Dutch underworld ('penoze') in Amsterdam and his weapons from the Corsicans and the Lebanese. He was also active in the stolen arts business with the Corsicans.

Last edited by TheKillingJoke; 02/20/19 09:58 AM.
Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964347
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So if I get it right
In the 70s and 80s, heroin was made by poppy plants in place like the afghanistan or vietnam, thailand.
But the substance of the poppy plants were transformed in labs by italian, chinese or coriscan groups? Or didnthe afghan and asians already sold the product finished to the italians or other groups?

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Blackmobs] #964349
02/20/19 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackmobs
So if I get it right
In the 70s and 80s, heroin was made by poppy plants in place like the afghanistan or vietnam, thailand.
But the substance of the poppy plants were transformed in labs by italian, chinese or coriscan groups? Or didnthe afghan and asians already sold the product finished to the italians or other groups?


The Chinese, Italians, Corsicans, Vietnamese...mostly got the raw opium poppy product from the Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia.

The Chinese were active in selling the finished product from the beginning.
The Vietnamese distributed the finished product as well since the late 80's whenever considerable Vietnamese communities were formed in Western cities.

The Corsicans sourced the base for heroin directly from Laos and refined it in labs around Corsica and Marseille. When the 'French Connection' came to an end, the Sicilians did the same in Sicily. The Sicilians also got a lot of the morphine base from Turkey and Lebanon.

In Afghanistan there are a lot of poppy fields, but Afghans don't seem to be involved in the direct wholesale of the finished product. I'm sure it does happen, but it doesn't seem to be endemic. The finished product that comes from the poppy fields in the Middle East is mostly distributed by a myriad of other groups: Turkish (Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, France), Kurdish (Netherlands, Germany, UK), Albanian (Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, UK, France), Serbian (Netherlands, Germany, Scandinavia, France), Pakistani (mostly UK), Indian (UK, Canada), Chechen (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic States, Germany, France), Armenian (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic States, Spain, France), Georgian (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic States, Spain, France), Azerbaijani (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic States, France), Lebanese (Germany, Australia, Canada). I'm guessing here, but I assume it's mostly the groups from Turkey that refine the stuff and then it's passed on to the other groups.

The Russian Slavic and Jewish groups mostly seem to traffic in heroin from Southeast Asia. I think they source it from the Chinese.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Blackmobs] #964350
02/20/19 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackmobs

But the substance of the poppy plants were transformed in labs by italian, chinese or coriscan groups? Or didnthe afghan and asians already sold the product finished to the italians or other groups?


And the Turkish and Kurdish bosses huge players till this day responsible for loads of heroin here in NL. Also plenty of recent murders on Dutch soil.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Hollander] #964352
02/20/19 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by Blackmobs

But the substance of the poppy plants were transformed in labs by italian, chinese or coriscan groups? Or didnthe afghan and asians already sold the product finished to the italians or other groups?


And the Turkish and Kurdish bosses huge players till this day responsible for loads of heroin here in NL. Also plenty of recent murders on Dutch soil.


Not just there, almost all Heroin in Balkans come from Turkey & Kosovo


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: TheKillingJoke] #964356
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
The Sicilian mafia was definitely involved in heroin as well, but in Europe I don't think they were as big as a source as the Chinese were in the 70's and 80's. Especially from the mid 70's to mid 80's with the Corleone-Palermo conflict, a lot of European traffickers did business with the Chinese instead. The USA is a different story.


sicilian mafia supplied the whole italian market that alone was very big and to a lesser extent other places like germany, switzerland, france and uk, so i don't think chineses were the biggest source in europe at that time, they supplied the benelux area mostly

Last edited by m2w; 02/20/19 01:16 PM.
Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: m2w] #964357
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
The Sicilian mafia was definitely involved in heroin as well, but in Europe I don't think they were as big as a source as the Chinese were in the 70's and 80's. Especially from the mid 70's to mid 80's with the Corleone-Palermo conflict, a lot of European traffickers did business with the Chinese instead. The USA is a different story.


sicilian mafia supplied the whole italian market that alone was very big and to a lesser extent other places like germany, switzerland, france and uk, so i don't think chineses were the biggest source in europe at that time, they supplied the benelux area mostly


Italy I'm sure and I'm not too sure about Germany or Switzerland - any of the big three Italian types of OC, Sicilian mafia, Ndrangheta, Camorra, have always had a major presence in Germany so it's plausible - but France or the UK is a different story.
In the south of France I'm sure the Sicilians did have quite a large share of the market down that neck of the woods. The northern French criminal milieu though was the one that had a large share of the retail market in Belgium as well and I know for a fact that their #1 source for heroin were the Chinese. Adding to that, in Paris for instance a lot of heroin was imported by Chinese as well as Vietnamese groups.
The heroin business in the UK in the 70's to early 80's was largely traced back to the Chinese as well. Due to the historical relations of the British with the Cantonese there was quite a Cantonese community living in London in particular those days. The Chinese imported a lot of heroin over there, which was distributed by local British firms. I haven't come across a source that states the Italians had a big involvement in UK's heroin trade in the 70's and 80's.

The Sicilians were the biggest source for heroin in Italy, the USA and few other pockets in Europe. Italy and the USA alone were HUGE markets.
Netherlands, northern France, Belgium, UK though? That was largely Chinese and were big smack markets as well.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964359
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Sounds like the Chinese were the de facto kings of heroin. But I would assume that the Sicilians were more powerful and wealthy based on other rackets.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964360
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sicilians had a grip in uk, mostly london, germany, switzerland, south france and spain, of course not even close to italy where they supplied the whole market, north italy was dominated by sicilian clans at that time and they supplied banda della magliana in rome
they supplied both usa and canada outside europe

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964361
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Honestly I never read about Sicilian mafia activity of any sort, leave alone heroin, anywhere in the UK - especially not during the 70's and the 80's.
Aside from a Camorra group that launder money in Aberdeen as well as the occasional mafia fugitive that goes into hiding in the UK, there's little in the way of major Italian OC activity in the UK.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964362
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they had not families and that stuff, they had a network of people to sell heroin on the wholesale level, i read a couple of articles from the '80 about it
i don't see why to surprise, there was a big italian community in london, mostly in brighton
if chineses who are less than italians in europe supplied so many countries like you said, it's logic sicilians had a big impact producing heroin in europe itself

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964363
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Alfonso Caruana was living in London, during 80's , supervising heroin trade. He had huge mansion there, his main partner in London was Francesco Di Carlo , he is accused of murder of Roberto Calvi the CEO of Banco Ambrosiano.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964365
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Ah yes, you're right, Caruana did have a mansion in London and in the mid 80's Di Carlo got busted for smuggling hashish and heroin.

Originally Posted by m2w
they had not families and that stuff, they had a network of people to sell heroin on the wholesale level, i read a couple of articles from the '80 about it
i don't see why to surprise, there was a big italian community in london, mostly in brighton
if chineses who are less than italians in europe supplied so many countries like you said, it's logic sicilians had a big impact producing heroin in europe itself


In general there are less Chinese in Western Europe than Italians, but cities like Amsterdam or London always had a more visible (and presumably bigger) Chinese community than an Italian one.

And I don't want to act surprised, but it's just that I can't seem to find any source anywhere about huge Sicilian involvement in heroin trafficking in the UK. From the information that I gathered, it seemed that the Chinese had a bigger involvement in heroin in London. Though you of course never know what goes on beneath the surface.

Last edited by TheKillingJoke; 02/20/19 03:30 PM.
Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: TheKillingJoke] #964367
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Ah yes, you're right, Caruana did have a mansion in London and in the mid 80's Di Carlo got busted for smuggling hashish and heroin.

Originally Posted by m2w
they had not families and that stuff, they had a network of people to sell heroin on the wholesale level, i read a couple of articles from the '80 about it
i don't see why to surprise, there was a big italian community in london, mostly in brighton
if chineses who are less than italians in europe supplied so many countries like you said, it's logic sicilians had a big impact producing heroin in europe itself


In general there are less Chinese in Western Europe than Italians, but cities like Amsterdam or London always had a more visible (and presumably bigger) Chinese community than an Italian one.

And I don't want to act surprised, but it's just that I can't seem to find any source anywhere about huge Sicilian involvement in heroin trafficking in the UK. From the information that I gathered, it seemed that the Chinese had a bigger involvement in heroin in London. Though you of course never know what goes on beneath the surface.


I feel the same way. It’s a little difficult to find hard numbers on the Sicilians and ndrangheta. The Camorra has had many members who have had their net worths estimated through asset and drug seizures, but the ndrangheta and Sicilians not so much. But the ndrangheta as of late has had a lot of seizures, just not on too many individuals.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964369
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i never said they had a huge impact in london, i just said they were involved like ndrangheta can be involved in some countries today, just network of people in the wholesale distribution, no structure of family, just network
it's like tons of criminal groups work in europe today, they are mostly network of people involved in drug stuff, they don't control the territory like an organized crime group usually does

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: m2w] #964375
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Originally Posted by m2w
i never said they had a huge impact in london, i just said they were involved like ndrangheta can be involved in some countries today, just network of people in the wholesale distribution, no structure of family, just network
it's like tons of criminal groups work in europe today, they are mostly network of people involved in drug stuff, they don't control the territory like an organized crime group usually does


I wasn't really talking about controlling territory either. It's just that there's little to find even on Sicilians being notably involved in wholesaling heroin in the London area. I'm sure it happened (and who knows it still happens), but I just don't think they were the main source for heroin in London in particular.

Re: Sicilians- Kings of heroin;Medellin- Kings of Coke [Re: Revis_Knicks] #964382
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island
In the 1980s, the Medellin Cartel was clearly at the top of the criminal underworld. They controlled approximately around 80% of the global cocaine trade. I believe that the Sicilians controlled the heroin trade at the same time. And I have been told on here that they used to trade cocaine for heroin during that time and Escobar was actually heavily influenced by Toto Riina(which amazes me because the guy ran his organization into the ground with his blood thirsty ways). How much of the heroin trade did the Sicilians control? Were like the Medellin cartel equivalent except for heroin at that time, and what was more profitable? I’m going to guess cocaine as the cartel was making more cash.


The Sicilians gave the Colombians “military” advice during their war against the state


"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
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