Compared to some of his contemporaries; Not much is heard about Joe Profaci. Just wanted opinions on his reign. Do you think he was a good Boss?

I do not believe he was a good Boss; He was incredibly greedy and charged monthly tributes from his men. This sicilian tradition was long gone by other families. He also had a Genovese-like attitude and caused friction to keep control.

I also have a question; He reigned for over 30 years as Boss; but why did he go back on his word with the Gallos??? Frankie Shots Abbatemarco declined giving Profaci tribute and he was murdered by his crew aka the Gallos. Joe or Larry Gallo were supposed to take over the crew but Profaci lied. Why didn't he just let them take over?? This was the beginning of the end for him. Persico was also annoyed at Profaci.

What do everyone think?

Also if anyone have any knowledge; This question is unrelated to an extent.

Bonanno; Mangano and Profaci were all good buddies and sat on the commission. They would even enjoy some weekends together.

My question; Why didn't Profaci and Bonanno rebuff Anastasia's rise to Boss? They certainly could of had him murdered. I believe they also controlled the commission. Obviously they had to suspect some misleadment in Albert's explanation on their buddy Mangano.

I think with Anastasia it was a case of him being popular with the people that mattered(Lucky and Costello) while Mangano wasn't.

Lucky didn't have any power on the commission then. He was deported. When Mangano was alive; He was pretty much in control of the commission with Profaci and Bonanno. I'm pretty sure there had to be bad vibes when Anastasia was resting his case about ''self defense''. Profaci/Bonanno/Mangano were all very close. I know Costello sided with Albert, but that's just 1 person; What about Lucchese?

He grew his family. Defended his territory. Expanded his rackets. He was a strong boss.

But he was a cruel one. It goes back to Machiavelli. Loved or feared.

More cruel that smart. For dont give to the Gallos what he promised to them cause two internal wars and this only for his greed.

Yes Furio. I think by the 60s things had changed. The new school like the Gallo bros didn't respect paying money to an old style don. Decades earlier there would not have been a social breakdown.

The book the Mad Ones about the Gallos is really informative. Their racket that gave them so much power was vending. Larry was the brains. Really it teaches you more about the other brothers than just Joey.

that's a good question about Luchese

Yes BarrettM you're right but a boss that don't give to his men what promised isn't a good boss,if you ask loyalty you must give respect,Gallo was a made man not an associate that killed a man that was his mentor in the mafia.When Gallo rebelled many soldiers was with him and that is the sign that more hated Profaci while Gambino that was an old style boss too was always respected even by John Gotti.

@Furio

You are right. Profaci should have never went back on his promise with the Gallos. Should have just given Joe/Larry the rackets that Frank Abattemarco had and his crew. Is their a reason why he went back on his word??

Profaci betrayed their trust and it was the beginning of the end for him.

@Sal Bronte. I assume he was neutral but who knows? I know that Gagliano before him leaned closely to the Mangano/Bonanno/Profaci alliance.

Joe Profaci ruled with fear. He did a lot of good for the family, but he was cheap way too much to his family, but gave generously in joint business deals with other families. When Mangano was killed he really became cheap. I feel like was building a war chest against Anastasia just in case. When Anastasia was killed, he did not lower his demand of an extra 25 a month from members for family legal fees. His greed got the better of him, when he started to see the money roll in. The Anastasia and Mangano families had been feuding for years before Anastasia took control, so there was not really a secret in the underworld between those two. The reason the commission accepted the self defense story was that Anastasia had a big crew of his own, with some other capos backing him up and he had a powerful ally in Costello, Lucchese, Philadelphia's Demetrio Pennestri, Boston's Joe Palombo, Tony Santaniello, and Tony Gizzo of Kansas City. They did not want another all out war like in the 20s and 30s, or another headache like Newark a decade ago. Lucchese was a friend and ally of Anastasia, but sometime around 1953 that friendship began to sour for an unknown reason. Perhaps with Lucchese becoming boss of his own family he did not need to support Anastasia or vice versa. Maybe Anastasia was pressuring Lucchese to back up his vote on the commission. Whatever the reason, it was enough for Anastasia to be smart enough to bump up Frank Scalise to acting Underboss to keep both Genovese and Lucchese at bay. Remember Anastasia and Costello were strong allies and they made plenty of enemies along their careers, the difference is that Frank Costello was a diplomat and knew how to cool down his rivals most of the time without the use of violence.

On the Gallos, my theory is that they were close to Gambino and Genovese members who were close and loyal to their bosses. Profaci could not forget about the big meeting in November of 1957. Which would make sense for him to not honor his deal with the brothers. Profaci hated Gambino and Genovese, and was keeping tabs on Lucchese. That should tell you something about his mind set.

Profaci always kept close to the Villabate clan led by Antonio Cottone. Nino was known as U Patre Nostru (Our Heavenly Father) due to his generosity. The Cottone clan were mentioned in 1937 as the Mafia bosses of Villabate by Melchiorre Allegra, a mafioso physician who became an informant when he was arrested. Joe visited him in ´47 Nino was shot dead by a rival faction nine years later.

Who are those guys?

What big meeting?

On the one hand, he was able to become a boss in his early 30s, ruled unopposed for over 30 years and became legitimately wealthy. Despite the internal strife in his family he was able to die of natural causes and not do any lengthy time in prison. On the other hand, he ruled in a time when mobsters had it a lot easier from their own men and from law enforcement plus his stupid decision with the Gallos. There isn't really that much information about him out there, but from what we know he doesn't sound like a good boss.

The only reason why I think he treated the Gallos that way was because after over 30 years in power he became so entitled and deluded that he felt he could do whatever he wanted.


Looking through Joe Bonanno's book, he says that he and Profaci weren't that bothered by Mangano's killing because it didn't directly effect their interests and Lucchese didn't care at all. He says Anastasia neither confirmed nor denied involvement but said he had a right to defend himself. Bonanno agreed with him on this. I find that kind of absurd. A made guy can kill his boss in self defence? By that logic Gotti could have told Chin he killed Castellano in self defence! What's the point in having a boss or a Commission? My guess is that Bonanno and Profaci could see the writing on the wall and didn't want to rock the boat. Either that or it was a Commission sanctioned hit and Bonanno didn't want to admit to it.

@ Giacomo;

Was Frank Scalise really that feared by Genovese and Lucchese for Albert Anastasia to make him underboss and keep them at bay?? Albert was more modernised and forward thinking then Scalise; Scalise was a old man or mustache pete they use to say. Did Scalise have a killer-crew that affected the decision to make him to underboss?

@MightyDR

He definitely went unopposed for 3 decades until he screwed the Gallos over. The Profaci family as a whole; Even though smaller then the other families.They were vicious. They had guys Mimi Scialo; Greg Scarpa; Johnny Bath Oddo; The Gallos; Sally Mussachio; The Persico's; Charlie Moose; Sonny Franzese and Tommy Spero. All heavy and dangerous. I could get why Lucchese and Gambino didnt force the decision to have Profaci to step down. They backed off to avoid a war.

Surprised still that Profaci and Bonanno didnt balk at the Mangano killing. But as u said; Who knows? Commission decision? Or they just didnt want trouble. Something unrelated; What is the exact yr Gagliano stepped down? He was close to the Mangano/Profaci/Bonnanno alliance. Surprised Lucchese wasnt.

I believe Bonanno, who was close to Vincent Mangano, quietly approved of Anastasia getting whacked although he probably wasn't involved.

Joe Profaci was both a powerful individual and weak Mafia boss IMO.
He had a name that carried weight in Sicily. The street guys in his territory were "protected" from Masseria and Maranzano. His vast importing business put him in a position of prominence. He was ambitious and could cooperate with Luciano. and he ws good at expanding familial connections by marriage.

But He never truly comanded the respect from the rank and file street guy. The Profaci-Colombo Family was always been dysfunctional. People who were connect to his blood family either starved or didn't respect/fear him enough to give a true percentage. Many people were whacked by Profaci during his tenure, to maintain his insecure position.
The Joe and Larry Gallo situation was boiling sense Profaci became Boss, it just had different characters over the years.

I wonder what year Joe Profaci made Joe Gallo

Probably like a lot of powerful people, the power went to his head. And anyone in that business is probably not a nice person to begin with.

You can never go wrong in Mafia upheavals by following the money. Profaci was a bad boss, in Mafia terms, because he was cheap and cheated his people. He promised the Gallos Shots's territories and then he welshed. That was stupid because it set off an internal war. The Gallos took Profaci's hierarchy hostage (narrowly missing Joe himself). He had to go the the Commission to get them released. That caused him to lose face. That's when Gambino began calling for him to "retire."

There's a parallel with Castellano. He committed a long string of "offenses" in Mafia terms: openly cavorting with his Columbian housekeeper under his own roof with his wife present; never meeting the troops in the streets; involving himself in nickle-and-dime decisions; dissing Dellacroce and his crew by not attending his wake or funeral; promoting Bilotti. But, the capital offense was that he cheaped and cheated his men. How else could Gotti have gotten away with whacking him?

As for Anastasia and Costello: The Commission allowed him to take Mangano's seat because they were afraid of him. Costello supported Anastasia because, according to Bonanno in his book, "A Man of Honor," Anastasia was his "protector" after Willie Moretti fell victim to syphilis and to several bullets. I'll add another reason: When Costello accused Lucchese of plotting to kill Anastasia, the Commission was dominated by Sicilian "men of tradition": Bonanno, Profaci, Magaddino, vis. Calabrians Costello and Anastasia. Lucchese was Sicilian, but he was a "swing" vote. By trying to force the "Men of Tradition" to discipline or kill a fellow Sicilian, he was hoping to cause dissent and weaken their hold on the Commission.

BarrettM, those were some major players from the 1920s till they retired. At the time Albert Anastasia had made powerful connections as underboss to other crime families. I kept looking into Boston and Philadelphia connections to both Gambino and Genovese crime families and for the Gambino family a lot of roads led to Albert Anastasia. Thomas Lucchese was an ally but not close to Anastasia, and when Vito Genovese told Lucchese that Anastasia was plotting to kill him, Lucchese switched to Carlo Gambino and Joseph Riccobono in the Gambino crime family, John Aquaro of the Bonanno crime family, and had gotten close to some of the members in Carmine Galante old crew, notably Michael Consolo and Frank Mari, and Colombo Capo Benedetto D'Alessandro. Many say it was Costello who told Lucchese that Anastasia was plotting to kill him, but it was Vito Genovese as both Lucchese and Genovese went way back, both were on opposite sides during the war, but Lucchese had always been closer to Genovese and Luciano while growing up. Lucchese knew that Genovese was the triggerman in Gaetano Reina death, but also knew Genovese and Luciano could not get out of it unless having an open war with Joe the Boss, and at the time Joe was way stronger than the Castellammarese or Luciano. Lucchese and Costello were in different rackets and hardly met unless Luciano was there.

Furio, the meeting at Appalachian, a lot of bosses were sizing each other up and many could tell which way the wind was blowing, and which families to watch out for. The Genovese and and Gambino crime families showed a strong alliance between their bosses.

Zavattoni, Frank Scalise was no pushover, and had connections to Buffalo, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Genovese and Lucchese crime family members. His crew in the Bronx was full of heavy hitters as he was a heavy hitter also. He gets credited as being a boss before Mangano, but it was most likely his brother Salvatore before Mangano became boss of the Gambino crime family. His crew comprised of Arthur Leo who went to Vincent Squillante crew, the Squillante brothers who were given their own crew by Albert Anastasia around 1954, David Amodeo, Frank Piccolo, Nino Gaggi was related to Scalise, and was an associate to the crew, but I dont believe he committed any murders only leg breaking at this time. He also had Tony from East Harlem, Jimmy from Hunters Point, and Frankie from Hartford, all said to have been heavy hitters, and his brother Joe Scalise also a heavy hitter. I am confident that Tony from East Harlem is Anthony Tony The Baker Napolitano who would become a capo in the family. Frankie from Hartford might be Frank Piccolo but am not positive, Jimmy from Hunters Point, not a clue. His crew was big and was split in 1954 or 1955, and was said it have had a lot of heavy hitters, otherwise how would he have stayed around after all the people he had killed or ordered killed.

Could Frank Scalise have been a threat to Gambino?

Scarpa told the feds that the Gallos were made in approximately 1956.