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USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people #958312
11/22/18 05:20 AM
11/22/18 05:20 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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https://www.globalresearch.ca/from-...ion-people-killed-by-the-usa/5660519/amp

From 1945 Until Today – 20 to 30 Million People Killed by the USA

In the summary of its last strategic document – 2018 National Defense Strategy of the United States of America (of which the entire text is classified) – the Pentagon claims that “after the Second World War, the United States and their allies installed a “free and open international order in order to safeguard the freedom of the people from aggression and coercion”, but that “this order is presently undermined by Russia and China, who are violating the principles and rules of international relations”. This is a total reversal of historical reality.

Professor Michel Chossudovsky, director of the Center for Research on Globalization, reminds us that these two countries, listed today as enemies, are those which, when they were allied with the United States during the Second World War, paid the victory over the Nazi-fascist Axis Berlin-Rome-Tokyo with the greatest price in human lives – approximately 26 million from the Soviet Union and 20 million from China, compared with a little more than 400,000 from the United States.

With this preliminary, Chossudovsky introduces to Global Research a documented study by James A. Lucas on the number of people killed by the uninterrupted series of wars, coups d’État and other subversive operations executed by the United States from the end of the War in 1945 until now – a number estimated at 20 to 30 million victims. Approximately twice the number of deaths from the First World War, the centenary of the end of which has just been celebrated in Paris with a Peace Forum.

Apart from the deaths, there are the wounded, who very often find themselves crippled for life – some experts calculate that for every person killed in war, ten others are wounded. This means that the number of people wounded by US wars should be counted in the hundreds of millions.

To this estimation in the study we must add a non-quantified number of dead, probably hundreds of millions, which have been caused, from 1945 until today, by the indirect effects of  wars – famine, epidemics, forced migrations, slavery and exploitation, environmental damage, subtraction of resources from vital needs in order to cover military expenditure.

The study documents the wars and coups d’État executed by the United States in 30 Asian, African, European and Latin-American countries. It reveals that US military forces are directly responsible for between 10 and 15 million deaths, caused by the major wars – those against Korea and Vietnam and the two wars against Iraq. Between 10 and 14 million other deaths have been caused by the proxy wars waged by the allied armed forces trained and commanded by the USA in Afghanistan, Angola, Congo, Sudan, Guatemala and other countries.

The Vietnam War, which spread to Cambodia and Laos, caused a number of deaths estimated at 7.8 million (plus a huge number of wounded, and genetic damage affecting generations due to the dioxin sprayed by US aircraft).

The proxy war of the 1980’s in Afghanistan was organised by the CIA, which trained and armed – with the collaboration of Osama bin Laden and Pakistan – more than 100,000 mujahideen to fight the Soviet troops who had fallen into the “Afghan trap” (as it was later described by Zbigniew Brzezinski, specifying that the training of the mujahideen had begun in July 1979, five months before the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan).

The bloodiest coup d’État was organised in 1965 in Indonesia by the CIA – it handed over the list of the first 5,000 Communists and others marked for death to the Indonesian murder squads. The number of people assassinated is estimated at between 500,000 and 3 million.

That is the “free and open international order” that the United States, independently of the White House, persist in pursuing in order to “safeguard the people from aggression and coercion”

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958325
11/22/18 10:55 AM
11/22/18 10:55 AM
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mustachepete Offline
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You have to rise above parroting what others write. They have their own agendas, and if you swallow it whole, you just spread their deceits further. This is the goal of those who originate "disinformation."

Last edited by mustachepete; 11/22/18 10:55 AM.

"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: mustachepete] #958344
11/22/18 04:30 PM
11/22/18 04:30 PM
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted by mustachepete
You have to rise above parroting what others write. They have their own agendas, and if you swallow it whole, you just spread their deceits further. This is the goal of those who originate "disinformation."


Pete
clap clap

I might also add that if not for the intervention of the US in league with the Christian Democrats, Italy would probably have become a communist state after WWII.

Last edited by olivant; 11/22/18 04:33 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
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Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: olivant] #958391
11/23/18 06:37 AM
11/23/18 06:37 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by olivant
Originally Posted by mustachepete
You have to rise above parroting what others write. They have their own agendas, and if you swallow it whole, you just spread their deceits further. This is the goal of those who originate "disinformation."


Pete
clap clap

I might also add that if not for the intervention of the US in league with the Christian Democrats, Italy would probably have become a communist state after WWII.



Olivant,if you write this,you don't know the italians: in 1945 if the US wouldn't give money to the Christian Democrats maybe would be a civil war between northern Italy where most of the industries were located and the rest of the country that was mostly monarchist or republican but not communist, moreover the Italian people have always been a very Catholic and individualistic people, which would have led to a revolt if the communists had even proposed a collectivization of the land or the abolition of private property,without counting the oppressive presence of the Vatican that would never have allowed such a thing.

Mustachepete I'm not parroting,after the 1945 the United States has supported both militarily and financially, many coups d'état (like the Condor operation in South America) that have led to millions of deaths, this is a fact.uring the Vietnam war died milions of civilians,not to mention the bombings in Laos and Cambodia.
I have always been in favor of the United States and my dream is to be able to emigrate in what I think is the best country in the world, but that during the course of its history has committed atrocious crimes.

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958405
11/23/18 01:42 PM
11/23/18 01:42 PM
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mustachepete Offline
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We can do without you until you learn to think analytically. You're still just gobbling up what this other person spewed and vomiting it back out.

The person who "wrote" that screed wanted you to swallow it, and then paste the title to some other message board so that it gets spread like a virus. In two posts, you haven't indicated that you've checked any of the history yourself, or given any critical thought to it. You're just repeating someone else's bullshit.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958468
11/24/18 05:54 PM
11/24/18 05:54 PM
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blueracing347 Offline
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10 million people is a quite a margin. Hiroshima killed 40k immediately. I forget how much with Nagasaki, for bs I'll say 60k. 2018-1945= 73 years. 73x100k = 7.3 million. The article is full of shit.

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958537
11/26/18 12:25 AM
11/26/18 12:25 AM
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I never like Columbus.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958540
11/26/18 07:20 AM
11/26/18 07:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070919143939/http://www.rerf.or.jp/general/qa_e/qa1.html

Hiroshima

90,000-140,000 persons

Nagasaki

60,000-80,000 persons

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...he-world-s-most-bombed-country-1.3078351
https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3081130!/image/image.png_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.png

Bombing in Laos 1964-1973

50,000 Laotinas killed between 1964 and 1973
20,000 Lations killed since 1973


Deaths in Vietnam War (1954–75) per R. J. Rummel

Low estimate of deaths Middle estimate of deaths High estimate of deaths
North Vietnam/Viet Cong military and civilian war dead 533,000 1,062,000 1,489,000
Cambodians Rummel estimates 60,000 killed by U.S.
Laotians 28,000 62,000 115,000
Grand total of war deaths:
Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos (1954–75) 1,450,000 2,450,000 3,595,000

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar...stan%20UPDATE_FINAL_corrected%20date.pdf
Killed Wounded
Afghan Civilians 2001-­‐‑2015 29,818 37,412
Afghan Civilians Jan-­‐‑June 2016 1,601 3,565


Now are only 1'701'419 using the low estimate of deaths,now I'm searching for other infos.

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958544
11/26/18 11:06 AM
11/26/18 11:06 AM
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blueracing347 Offline
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Your 29 million Afghan casualties is ludicrous. The Afghanistan population is 35 million. The number is 29,000+. Subtract 31 million from this ridiculous tally.

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: blueracing347] #958552
11/26/18 11:40 AM
11/26/18 11:40 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by blueracing347
Your 29 million Afghan casualties is ludicrous. The Afghanistan population is 35 million. The number is 29,000+. Subtract 31 million from this ridiculous tally.


My bad,it's

Afghan Civilians 2001-­‐‑2015
29,818 ---- 37,412
Afghan Civilians Jan-­‐‑June 2016
1,601 ---- 3,565

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 11/26/18 11:41 AM.
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958632
11/27/18 08:24 AM
11/27/18 08:24 AM
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mustachepete Offline
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While you're looking for more deaths, please consider a few question:

1. Do you believe that people have a right to defend themselves from attack? Do you believe that nations have the right to defend themselves from attack?

2. Do you believe that individuals have the right to assist others who are under attack? Do you think that nations have the right to defend other nations from attack?

3. Do you have any belief at all in the core concept of the United Nations - that wars can be avoided if nations pledge to defend one another from outside attack?

Do you think that the people who are spreading this material are giving any consideration to these sorts of questions? If not, why not?


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: mustachepete] #958656
11/27/18 02:20 PM
11/27/18 02:20 PM
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furio_from_naples Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mustachepete
While you're looking for more deaths, please consider a few question:

1. Do you believe that people have a right to defend themselves from attack? Do you believe that nations have the right to defend themselves from attack?

2. Do you believe that individuals have the right to assist others who are under attack? Do you think that nations have the right to defend other nations from attack?

3. Do you have any belief at all in the core concept of the United Nations - that wars can be avoided if nations pledge to defend one another from outside attack?

Do you think that the people who are spreading this material are giving any consideration to these sorts of questions? If not, why not?


I don't think that for the bombing in Laos the US had to defend by a nation of peasants who had never seen an airplane in their life; If a nation have a right to defend,why the contras against a democratic elected govern?Why all the coups in south america? Do you ever seen the war of charlie wilson with tom hanks?
Do you know that the comunist govern in afghanistan in 1970s tried to modernize the country and that the mujaheddin were the armed hand of the landowners who did not want the redistribution of land?


Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958691
11/28/18 10:52 AM
11/28/18 10:52 AM
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mustachepete Offline
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Again, you need history, not tiny bits of accusation that might be true to some tiny extent.

Is your position that the United States, through military action, is solely responsible for the deaths of 25 to 30 million people since the end of WWII? If so, then you should be able to specify all of those numbers, and you should also be able to establish causation. If not, then I will assert that you're just spreading disinformation - taking bits of information, distorting it, and then spreading it around to support your own biases.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958703
11/28/18 02:56 PM
11/28/18 02:56 PM
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I am from Serbia , ex-Yugoslavia , USA bombarded my country back in 1999 , the lies they said and fake videos that they made about it, just disgusting. They bombarded bridges,hospitals. Who knows how much innocent people/children died.

I don't have anything against Americans, i have a lot of good friends from USA. But your politics is cancer.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: Strax] #958723
11/28/18 07:58 PM
11/28/18 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Strax
I am from Serbia , ex-Yugoslavia , USA bombarded my country back in 1999 , the lies they said and fake videos that they made about it, just disgusting. They bombarded bridges,hospitals. Who knows how much innocent people/children died.

I don't have anything against Americans, i have a lot of good friends from USA. But your politics is cancer.


You should blame many western leaders because it was NATO.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #958996
12/04/18 06:20 PM
12/04/18 06:20 PM
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It’s a junk study. Nothing new.

How many more deaths may have happened from 1938-2018 if the US did not exist starting in 1938?

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: alicecooper] #959064
12/05/18 06:00 PM
12/05/18 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by alicecooper
It’s a junk study. Nothing new.

How many more deaths may have happened from 1938-2018 if the US did not exist starting in 1938?



Much less i can tell you that , we all know US like to act as world police , especially to countries that have a lot of oil , pay some rebellion and u know the rest


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #959127
12/06/18 09:41 PM
12/06/18 09:41 PM
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Much less? Unlikely.

We’d be typing in Russian or mandarin or who knows what without the US.

If our bases are so unwanted around the globe why don’t they kick us out? Oh that’s right.

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: alicecooper] #959133
12/06/18 10:35 PM
12/06/18 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by alicecooper
Much less? Unlikely.

We’d be typing in Russian or mandarin or who knows what without the US.

If our bases are so unwanted around the globe why don’t they kick us out? Oh that’s right.



Careful Alicecooper. With Trump in the White House, some countries are thinking of just doing that. The opinion of many of the citizens in Germany is that they want us out, but the German Leaders want to keep us in. Poland wants us in their country, which would be both a good ideal and a tactical advantage for us if Russia decides to invade Eastern Europe. We really are at a disadvantage with our bases in Germany if Russia decides to roll over its neighboring countries and declare war on us. Our forces in Germany would have to wait for reinforcements and that would allow Russia much time to take other countries and half of Poland before we get the force we need to stop them taking the rest of Europe or even to push them back.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #959138
12/06/18 10:50 PM
12/06/18 10:50 PM
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I personally think our military is too expensive.

But I don’t see anything ever changing.

And if citizens want the military out because they don’t like trump then fine with me.

Let’s get out of Germany entirely. Let them worry about Germany. Fuck em.

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: alicecooper] #959232
12/08/18 06:20 AM
12/08/18 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by alicecooper
Much less? Unlikely.

We’d be typing in Russian or mandarin or who knows what without the US.

If our bases are so unwanted around the globe why don’t they kick us out? Oh that’s right.



Sure thing,Russia never invaded anyone.While on the other side, US... And on top of that there are brainwashed americans who believe their country is doing right thing. As i said ,when my country was bombarded by US,they showed videos of mass executions,and told a lot of lies about government here, just as excuse. Stop acting as worlds police and start minding your own business.

Btw: i don't care about politics , i dont support any politician because they are all same shit. Not that i support any country, but i hate US.

Last edited by Strax; 12/08/18 06:23 AM.

"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #959234
12/08/18 06:29 AM
12/08/18 06:29 AM
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Strax Offline
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Freedom of speech! lol Everyone talking same scripted shit,brainwashed country.


Last edited by Strax; 12/08/18 06:29 AM.

"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: Strax] #959254
12/08/18 02:33 PM
12/08/18 02:33 PM
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Irishman12 Offline
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Originally Posted by Strax
Freedom of speech! lol Everyone talking same scripted shit,brainwashed country.



Yes, and I'm glad Trump has called out the media. For too long they've gotten a free pass. Nice video Strax!

Re: USA from 1945 killed 20 to 30 milions people [Re: furio_from_naples] #959265
12/08/18 04:49 PM
12/08/18 04:49 PM
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That's our media. Saying whatever the top dollar tells them to say. Not to be confused with journalists. Strax was telling no bull about civilian buildings being targeted in 1999 by the U.S. at least four building were targeted regardless of civilian presence. The worst was that a US military unit was to secure the airport, but the Russian military secured it first. When NATO found out, they ordered the US military force to attack the Russian. The officers had more wisdom than their commanders and refused the order, which would have caused an unnecessary international incidence and possibly another world war, as the Russians were showing no aggression, only defensive positions and maintaining what they were guarding.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green

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