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Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #953893
09/23/18 04:40 PM
09/23/18 04:40 PM
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MeyerLansky Offline
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what american family have stuff going on in canada ?
the gambino's ? and the bonanno's right ?
you guys think that there is any chance that they might join in ??

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: MeyerLansky] #953898
09/23/18 04:57 PM
09/23/18 04:57 PM
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NickleCity Offline
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Originally Posted by MeyerLansky
what american family have stuff going on in canada ?
the gambino's ? and the bonanno's right ?
you guys think that there is any chance that they might join in ??


According to Edwards these guys have stuff in Canada and have already joined in:Buffalo Playing a Role

Last edited by NickleCity; 09/23/18 04:59 PM.
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #953902
09/23/18 05:20 PM
09/23/18 05:20 PM
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Also Detroit In Windsor, apparently run by Tony Palozzolo.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: NickleCity] #953906
09/23/18 06:12 PM
09/23/18 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by MeyerLansky
what american family have stuff going on in canada ?
the gambino's ? and the bonanno's right ?
you guys think that there is any chance that they might join in ??


According to Edwards these guys have stuff in Canada and have already joined in:Buffalo Playing a Role

so if that's true then we really have a big war !
why would the american lcn will want anything to do with that crazy beef over there ?

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: MeyerLansky] #953909
09/23/18 06:57 PM
09/23/18 06:57 PM
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NickleCity Offline
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Originally Posted by MeyerLansky
Originally Posted by NickleCity
Originally Posted by MeyerLansky
what american family have stuff going on in canada ?
the gambino's ? and the bonanno's right ?
you guys think that there is any chance that they might join in ??


According to Edwards these guys have stuff in Canada and have already joined in:Buffalo Playing a Role

so if that's true then we really have a big war !
why would the american lcn will want anything to do with that crazy beef over there ?


I think it is mostly about control of drug trafficking routes, and maybe a couple of beefs between clans in Hamilton that may have ties to Buffalo.

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: m2w] #953913
09/23/18 08:29 PM
09/23/18 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by m2w

ranieri was a major rizzuto man in ontario and the men wanted for musitano hit are very close to him, yes they are hired guns but somebody ordered the hit and he was probably a man who belongs to rizzuto clan


I have a hard time believing that the hit came from the Rizzuto family for the following reasons:

- It makes no sense for the Rizzutos to be hitting their own allies when they need all the help they can get.
- We don't know what kind of relationship the hit squad had with Ranieri, furthermore, Ranieri has been out of the GTA for years and we don't know what his standing was with the Rizzuto family at the time of his death.
- It makes more sense that the hit came from Musitano rivals such as the Luppinos or Pappalias because there's historical beef and competition for the city of Hamilton.
- The murder of Al Iavarone and the way it was done (In his own home) seems to be a message sent, this is a payback for Angelo Musitano, and Al Iavarone is definitely connected in some way to the Luppino family, which possibly indicates that the murder of Ang came from this camp.

Originally Posted by BensonHURST

WOW first mafia "WORLD WAR"
Has not really dragged in American LCN however, looks like that might change...


I doubt this kind of war will ever spill over the US. American LE would rain a storm on these guys like they've never seen before.

While US mobsters don't have the freedom to operate like they used to, they are lucky that they don't have to worry about the kind of hits Canadian mobsters have to deal with.

Last edited by BronaZora; 09/23/18 08:35 PM.
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #953920
09/23/18 09:14 PM
09/23/18 09:14 PM
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NickleCity Offline
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Ciment posted this Crime Hunter article: Don’t read mafia last rights just yet

That article said:

Quote
"We were a little too quick on the trigger to give traditional organized crime its last rites."

"Are we returning to the bad, bloody days of the Mafia"--with a picture of mob hit in upstate NY (Rochester Field) from 1970.

“There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.”

“Dead? ...Not by a long shot."


Now compare that story to the previous one about Buffalo in May 2018 called: Buffalo Blues: Last rites for mob in queen city

Very similar titles: Seems like the author may be recanting his original story about Buffalo (even though it refers to mob worldwide as well) after Edwards recent piece. Is this article being referred to when Edwards wrote: “The mob in Buffalo isn’t dead, despite some media reports.”?


Last edited by NickleCity; 09/23/18 09:34 PM.
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: MeyerLansky] #953948
09/24/18 03:53 AM
09/24/18 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MeyerLansky
what american family have stuff going on in canada ?
the gambino's ? and the bonanno's right ?
you guys think that there is any chance that they might join in ??


Luccheses apparantly too.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: BronaZora] #953950
09/24/18 04:17 AM
09/24/18 04:17 AM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted by BronaZora
Originally Posted by m2w

ranieri was a major rizzuto man in ontario and the men wanted for musitano hit are very close to him, yes they are hired guns but somebody ordered the hit and he was probably a man who belongs to rizzuto clan


I have a hard time believing that the hit came from the Rizzuto family for the following reasons:

- It makes no sense for the Rizzutos to be hitting their own allies when they need all the help they can get.


Even though I agree with you on this matter (the Musitano murder) I think this reasoning can be disputed. With the release of Mirarchi, Scoppa and Arcadi a resurgence of violence was a realistic expectation but it didn't happen. Instead it has been quiet in Montreal for quite enough time now to think that there is a truce between the factions, and so it remains to be seen whether the Rizzutos still need all the help they can get. And other then assumptions we don't know the actual status of the old Rizzuto group. Oldtimers have been killed on both sides and younger members simply step in to fill the void. Also, so much has changed over the years with new alliances, double, triple or even quadruple crossings, that the once thought alliance between the Musitanos and Rizzutos may very well be outdated let alone a remaining business relationship.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #953951
09/24/18 05:04 AM
09/24/18 05:04 AM
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CabriniGreen Offline
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@Hollander

couple things,



1. Where'd you here about Windsor and Palazzolo? I've honestly been wondering about the Widsor crew/ territory for the longest time......

2. The Cotroni -Rizzuto truce.... any chance it's something I could look up or read? Any links? Sounds like a fascinating gbc read..

3. Any info on the Luchesses in Canada?

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #953952
09/24/18 05:16 AM
09/24/18 05:16 AM
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@Sonny

you make some good points...

This thing is a lot like the Godfather.." See, all our people are businessmen, their loyalty is based on that..".


(Not to the Bonnano " Family", or anything like that... now if an association with the Bonnanos gets them paid... they will placate the situation. This is what Montagna apparently couldn't figure out... They backed him because they thought letting him take out the Rizzutos would increase THEIR OWN SHARE of the Montreal rackets. Then he tried to play the big boss, got greedy, and quickly got wacked... )

I think Vito had the kind of magnetic charisma, combined with his pedigree and contacts to impose a kind of benevolent hegemony, these other guys dont have that level of respect yet. So any alliance is going to be a temporary matter of convienence.

Unless a long term business arrangement is made.

Look at the Calabrians fucking members of the Wolfpack out of their payment. That was colossally stupid. As long as they had a supply source, they could have stolen them from the Rizzutos. They pushed them into Montreals orbit, with the same type of arrogant stupidity Montagna showed...

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #953954
09/24/18 07:41 AM
09/24/18 07:41 AM
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Cabrini I get back on your second question. According to Scott Burnstein the American mafia in neighboring Detroit has always controlled the racket territory in Windsor dating back to the Prohibition Era. Law enforcement in Michigan has long viewed reputed Detroit mafia consigliere Anthony (Tony Pal) Palazzolo as the man tasks with looking after its affairs in Canada. It´s a valuable region with relatively a lot of crime.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: Hollander] #953962
09/24/18 09:42 AM
09/24/18 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Cabrini I get back on your second question. [snip]


In getting back to CabriniGreen about a so-called Cotroni-Rizzuto truce, please don't bother trying to spread more misinformation on this board about Canadian organized-crime groups than you already do. You don't have any sources to support your claim in another page on this thread that there are Cotronis operating in Ontario. By also claiming that the membership of the Cotronis is unknown, you're trying to get posters on the board to believe that Cotronis were lurking in the shadows during the turbulent and quiet times in the Montreal mob war, that Cotronis were biding their time to take over the Montreal Mafia, that Cotronis were the main opposition to Rizzuto loyalists, that Cotronis were calling the shots, etc.

Frank Cotroni Jr. is likely the only Cotroni alive in all of Canada who is a made member of the Montreal Mafia or any other Italian crime group for that matter. If someone were to ask me for evidence of his made status, even I would have to cite circumstantial evidence that may not even be considered that strong. Read Maria Mourani's book about Milena Di Maulo from earlier this year, Milena Di Maulo : fille et femme de mafiosi, to discover how Frank Cotroni Sr.'s family, as well as Di Maulo's, actually had and have a very strong French-Canadian flavour because of who Cotroni Sr. and Di Maulo married. Read that book as well to find out how inactive Cotroni Sr.'s son Michel has been over the decades, despite being seen meeting with Domenico Violi at the Linguini restaurant in Baie-D’Urfé in October 2016 (that's the restaurant that got burned down two months after the meeting of Violis and Cotronis).

In his 2016 book, Cellule 8002 vs mafia, Daniel Renaud has simplified charts of the "Sicilian" and "Calabrian" factions of the Montreal Mafia as they stood in 2004. Giuseppe "Joe" Di Maulo is at the head of the Calabrian faction. (His daughter's book confirms that he was born in Montorio dei Frentani, in Campobasso, Molise--to be clear, Di Maulo was not Calabrian). In the Calabrian chart, under Di Maulo, are Moreno Gallo, Antonio Vanelli, and Raynald Desjarding--Renaud considers the first two to be made. Under Gallo is Antonio Mucci, also considered made. Under Desjardins is Giovanni Bertolo, and under Bertolo is Vittorio Mirarchi--none of these three is considered made. Not a single Cotroni to be seen anywhere in this chart.

If a whole bunch of Cotroni sons and other Cotroni male relatives were made after Frank Sr.'s death in 2004, into which family were they made exactly? Why don't any of these Cotronis figure in books about the Montreal Mafia by Lamothe and Humphreys, Cédilot and Noël, and Edwards and Nicaso, the earliest being published in 2006? You've previously speculated that the Cotronis were 'ndrangheta members but without providing any proof whatsoever. Frank Sr. didn't speak any Italian at all, and you expect his sons and male relatives to have picked it up along the way?

I could see Domenico and Giuseppe Violi inducting guys like the Cotronis into their crime group, but would this group be a Luppino-Violi 'ndrina or an American La Cosa Nostra crew, i.e., a Bonanno crew? Same with Mirarchi being possibly recruited by the Commisso crime group in the GTA, as we don't yet have evidence of Mirarchi being made, despite the claims he is a candidate for godfather of the Montreal Mafia. Incidentally, I have the same doubts about Stefano Sollecito and Leonardo Rizzuto's made status--what evidence is there of that? If Vito Rizzuto reportedly respected Andrew Scoppa--see yesterday's news article posted in this thread--I have a much easier time believing Scoppa is made, although I don't quite understand what it means to be an independent man of honour, as Renaud has previously put it (in French of course) in older articles about Scoppa.

And if posters are going to argue that surviving members of the old Cotroni-Violi group like Vanelli, Mucci, and Volpato are still planning to make a move to take over the Montreal Mafia, please explain to me what exactly they have been waiting for during the past nine years of the mob war. Or why they went to the funeral services for Vito Rizzuto's mother in February of this year.

Last edited by antimafia; 09/25/18 05:05 PM. Reason: Fixed typos at least three times. Added 2 sentences to second-last para.
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #953964
09/24/18 10:12 AM
09/24/18 10:12 AM
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Hollander Offline
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The death of Frank Cotroni was the end of the Cotroni family as such. They have since become part of the Rizzuto family, but remaining the Calabrian faction of the organization. With Cotronis I mean those guys Cotroni is just the name we use like Bonanno.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: antimafia] #953969
09/24/18 12:25 PM
09/24/18 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by antimafia
Frank Cotroni Jr. is likely the only Cotroni alive in all of Canada who is a made member of the Montreal Mafia or any other Italian crime group for that matter. If someone were to ask me for evidence of his made status, even I would have to cite circumstantial evidence that may not even be considered that strong.


I'd be interested in your reasoning (circumstantial evidence) of Frank Jr's possible made member status. You don't believe that the elder brother, Nicodemo, is a made member? It seems like Frank Jr., not necessarily because of the name, was Frank Sr.'s favorite. Marrying Joe Di Maulo' s daughter would've helped too. I agree that he is a possible made member due to his activity in the mob going back to the early 80s and the facts of being the son and son-in-law of two of the Montreal Mafia's most prominent members. I think it's pretty cool that Di Maulo's daughter wrote that book but so far I haven't found time to learn French...

Quote
In his 2016 book, Cellule 8002 vs mafia, Daniel Renaud has simplified charts of the "Sicilian" and "Calabrian" factions of the Montreal Mafia as they stood in 2004. Giuseppe "Joe" Di Maulo is at the head of the Calabrian faction. (His daughter's book confirms that he was born in Montorio dei Frentani, in Campobasso, Molise--to be clear, Di Maulo was not Calabrian). In the Calabrian chart, under Di Maulo, are Moreno Gallo, Antonio Vanelli, and Raynald Desjardings--Renaud considers the first two to be made. Under Gallo is Antonio Mucci, also considered made. Under Desjardins is Giovanni Bertolo, and under Bertolo is Vittorio Mirarchi--none of these three is considered made. Not a single Cotroni to be seen anywhere in this chart.


Are these the exact specifics of this particular chart? Could you also provide the specifics of the Sicilian faction or is it just a repeat of a chart already made public (the six leaders)? Is Scoppa also included on the Calabrian chart? Poster eurodave mentioned that Renaud states in his book that the Scoppas were connected to Gallo. In any case, the chart is pretty similar to the one I made years ago.

Quote
Incidentally, I have the same doubts about Stefano Sollecito and Leonardo Rizzuto's made status--what evidence is there of that?


Mostly logical and circumstantial evidence such as being named as the leaders of the Montreal Mafia. I suspect that at this point they had become their own group (my hypothesis is that the 2012 Toronto meeting may have established Vito as leader of his own group so he could restore order after the Montagna fiasco). Also, there was an article in 2014 about Stefano Sollecito's birthday party, attended by higher-ups, which apparantly also served to celebrate his recent made member status. This again leads me to believe that they were capable of inducting their own members, probably with approval from New York, because being made doesn't mean anything if there's no recognition.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954001
09/24/18 05:47 PM
09/24/18 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Cabrini I get back on your second question. According to Scott Burnstein the American mafia in neighboring Detroit has always controlled the racket territory in Windsor dating back to the Prohibition Era. Law enforcement in Michigan has long viewed reputed Detroit mafia consigliere Anthony (Tony Pal) Palazzolo as the man tasks with looking after its affairs in Canada. It´s a valuable region with relatively a lot of crime.


Have they been brought into this as of yet?

I guess they have their own separate pipeline?
From Italy to Canada to Detroit

Otherwise they would gotten dragged in somehow the Canada crew anyhow.

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: NickleCity] #954025
09/25/18 05:43 AM
09/25/18 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NickleCity
Ciment posted this Crime Hunter article: Don’t read mafia last rights just yet

That article said:

Quote
"We were a little too quick on the trigger to give traditional organized crime its last rites."

"Are we returning to the bad, bloody days of the Mafia"--with a picture of mob hit in upstate NY (Rochester Field) from 1970.

“There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.”

“Dead? ...Not by a long shot."


Now compare that story to the previous one about Buffalo in May 2018 called: Buffalo Blues: Last rites for mob in queen city

Very similar titles: Seems like the author may be recanting his original story about Buffalo (even though it refers to mob worldwide as well) after Edwards recent piece. Is this article being referred to when Edwards wrote: “The mob in Buffalo isn’t dead, despite some media reports.”?



Nickle, regarding the part I put in bold:

With all due respect, I would say that you are reaching with that one. I did not see the word 'Buffalo' in that article once. Nor anything relating to Western New York, unless you count the unspecified ties that Iavarone allegedly had with Buffalo. I can see how you came to that conclusion that the author may be backtracking on his story, so I completely get your point of view, but it's dubious whether the author was recanting his original story or not.
As far as I can tell, that article (the Cochrane Times one) was one of many written about the Mafia in 2018 reacting to Gene Gotti's release, and it smartly tied in the developments north of the border too. That's my personal opinion, based on comparing the two articles.
Let me know if you disagree.

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954026
09/25/18 06:09 AM
09/25/18 06:09 AM
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Here are some interesting articles I have found on the recent Iavarone hit. There is, of course, Peter Edwards' Buffalo one:
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...-deadly-ontario-dispute-sources-say.html

And here are some other ones:
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/suspected-mafia-boss-gunned-down-in-ancaster-report
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/09/14/hamilton-police-probing-ancaster-homicide.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/organized-crime-musitano-iavarone-murder-hamilton-1.4825446



If you skim through these articles, I think it becomes pretty evident that the Canadian law enforcement is very far behind the Mafia. They have very little information on the power struggles going on. Here are some quotes from the following articles:
“It is possibly linked to the Angelo Musitano murder,” (Det. Sgt. Peter) Thom said. “Something is going on in the underworld, perhaps a power struggle, and it is something we are wise to.” “I’m not sure that this particular case factors into that, but that’s certainly something that we’re alive to,” Thom said.

Antonio Nicaso, a Mafia expert who teaches courses on organized crime at Queen's University, told CBC News it does appear different groups are vying for power in Ontario and Quebec right now — but it's unclear whether or not this incident is related.
"There is a power struggle. There is violence related to the power vacuum left by the Rizzutos," he said.

In my opinion, the statements made by police and the general vague nature of all of these articles make it hard for me to make a definitive conclusion. And it makes it especially hard for me to accept the Buffalo conclusion by Peter Edwards, which reads - in my opinion - like a fortune teller as opposed to an organized crime report since it seems to me to be intentionally vague and open to interpretation. Most of the quotes in that article by Edwards' sources are very broad one-liners which I don't think can - at this stage - be used to make a conclusion on the subject, especially when you look into other organized crime articles where actual, named police officers and sergeants - not "sources" - say themselves that they're not really sure what's going on.

There is a lot of interpretation when it comes to what's going on in this area, especially with the Iavarone murders. It will be interesting to see what happens with the murder suspects. I can completely understand why one would take Edwards' article as the assurance they need to consider Buffalo an active family.

In a nutshell:
1. Edwards' Buffalo piece does not line up with other police statements and article, which generally concede that the power struggle is largely a mystery.
2. Edwards' Buffalo piece reads like a "fortune teller" report in that no specifics are mentioned and the article is seemingly intentionally vague.
3. Edwards' sources seem to know way, way, way more than the actual cops and investigators on the ground, which I view as a red flag that perhaps the article is not entirely accurate.
4. Edwards' sources conflict with the FBI down in the States, which is - by all accounts - light years ahead of investigative police in Canada.

Let me know if you disagree with the above statements, and why. This is simply my take on the recent articles and information in comparison with one another.

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: NickyfromTampa] #954028
09/25/18 07:12 AM
09/25/18 07:12 AM
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NickleCity Offline
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Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by NickleCity
Ciment posted this Crime Hunter article: Don’t read mafia last rights just yet

That article said:

Quote
"We were a little too quick on the trigger to give traditional organized crime its last rites."

"Are we returning to the bad, bloody days of the Mafia"--with a picture of mob hit in upstate NY (Rochester Field) from 1970.

“There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.”

“Dead? ...Not by a long shot."


Now compare that story to the previous one about Buffalo in May 2018 called: Buffalo Blues: Last rites for mob in queen city

Very similar titles: Seems like the author may be recanting his original story about Buffalo (even though it refers to mob worldwide as well) after Edwards recent piece. Is this article being referred to when Edwards wrote: “The mob in Buffalo isn’t dead, despite some media reports.”?



Nickle, regarding the part I put in bold:

With all due respect, I would say that you are reaching with that one. I did not see the word 'Buffalo' in that article once. Nor anything relating to Western New York, unless you count the unspecified ties that Iavarone allegedly had with Buffalo. I can see how you came to that conclusion that the author may be backtracking on his story, so I completely get your point of view, but it's dubious whether the author was recanting his original story or not.
As far as I can tell, that article (the Cochrane Times one) was one of many written about the Mafia in 2018 reacting to Gene Gotti's release, and it smartly tied in the developments north of the border too. That's my personal opinion, based on comparing the two articles.
Let me know if you disagree.


You are definitely right. It is a reach... I just find it very interesting the wording of these these titles are so similar...i.e. “last rites” to Buffalo... “to quick to read last rites” although admittedly the second piece is speaking of the mafia in general. Very well could just be the author's vocabulary and writing style...

Last edited by NickleCity; 09/25/18 10:37 AM.
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: Moe_Tilden] #954029
09/25/18 07:48 AM
09/25/18 07:48 AM
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Nickey a couple questions...

Why would the FBI know about OC in Hamilton? Or know better than the cops there?

Now I ask bacause I feel their info is, how do I put it, maybe outdated?


I only ask, cause people keep saying it. I'm like , ALL confused, like arnt the FBI and DEA working with these people? And why dont they refute or correct anything then?

I actually took it as maybe they disagree on Buffalo. Maybe that's why in the Violi indictments they said Todaro syndicate, but in this one they are MUCH more conservative and careful with their wording. I took it as them trying not to antagonize or embarrass the FEDs.


There has to be extensive cooperation between the agencies to really make these type of cases right?

Like there CANT be an Old bridge type case unless there is coordination, no?

If the Buffalo- Ontario territory is dominated by Calabrians, why exactly would an American raised Fed be THE authority?

Also, have you read that report-theory by Anna Sergi?

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954039
09/25/18 08:46 AM
09/25/18 08:46 AM
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Chicago
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CabriniGreen Offline
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@ antimafia

Just great post, my man....Great stuff
.

@Sonny @Nickel @Nickey

Just really good stuff guys,

@Hollander

Thanks for taking the time to answer, I know I can be a little intense...

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: CabriniGreen] #954046
09/25/18 11:11 AM
09/25/18 11:11 AM
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NickleCity Offline
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Originally Posted by CabriniGreen
Nickey a couple questions...

Why would the FBI know about OC in Hamilton? Or know better than the cops there?

Now I ask bacause I feel their info is, how do I put it, maybe outdated?


I only ask, cause people keep saying it. I'm like , ALL confused, like arnt the FBI and DEA working with these people? And why dont they refute or correct anything then?

I actually took it as maybe they disagree on Buffalo. Maybe that's why in the Violi indictments they said Todaro syndicate, but in this one they are MUCH more conservative and careful with their wording. I took it as them trying not to antagonize or embarrass the FEDs.


There has to be extensive cooperation between the agencies to really make these type of cases right?

Like there CANT be an Old bridge type case unless there is coordination, no?

If the Buffalo- Ontario territory is dominated by Calabrians, why exactly would an American raised Fed be THE authority?

Also, have you read that report-theory by Anna Sergi?


@Cabrini I've actually wondered if the FBI/Justice Dept. in the Unites States is conflicted on the Buffalo family, and I know BensonHURST has too. Is that what you are saying. If it is, that question arises for me because of the following:

Cohen at Buffalo Field office in March 2017 told the Buffalo News:

Quote
“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” FBI Special Agent Adam Cohen told the Buffalo News last year.

“But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses.”



US Attorney Eastern District (and I would guess the FBI in that area) wrote the following after the Otremens arrests in November 2017:

Quote
In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking.



I would say that is a significant contradiction being both statements were made in the same year.


However, Nicky responded with a very good point:

Originally Posted by Nickyfromtampa
The important thing here is that the members of the Todaro crime family were arrested exclusively in Canada. Whereas Buffalo FBI Special Agent Adam Cohen was almost definitely talking about the city of Buffalo and surrounding areas. Unless whatever's going on in Canada is affecting organized crime in Buffalo, then the Buffalo Field Office shouldn't really be expected to know what's going on north of the border.

So it's not really a contradiction when you look at the context of the article, which is about the Mafia in WESTERN NEW YORK as opposed to the Todaro crime family's operations in other countries.


Here is my issue with that response: I have a hard time making a separation between the "Mafia in WNY" and the "Todaro Crime Family" and its operations in other countries. To me they are one in the same as the Todaro's where the heads of the Buffalo Crime family for two decades--even if they diminished in size and viability over that time. Of course it could be that another LCN family (like the Bonanno's) or even one of the Ndrangheta clans could be running things. Is that what you suggest Nicky?

My big question: What is the likelihood that traditional mafia structures have been reinvented and and their is much more collaboration between mafia families and mafia groups like the Sergi article has suggested.

Last edited by NickleCity; 09/25/18 11:17 AM.
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954058
09/25/18 03:37 PM
09/25/18 03:37 PM
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Stubbs Offline
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The other thing that's interesting, the FBI mentioned that the case with the Bonannos included members of the Todaro Family:

Quote
In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking.


What's interesting is in the same FBI press release that contains the above quote, all of the defendants listed are all in the NYC area. So, who are the members and associates of the Todaro family that were arrested? Wouldn't there be a list of their names somewhere if they were arrested and formally charged with a crime?

Sorry if I missed it earlier, but I can't seem to find who the Todaro family members are who were arrested anywhere.


"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: Stubbs] #954060
09/25/18 04:12 PM
09/25/18 04:12 PM
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NickleCity Offline
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Originally Posted by Stubbs
The other thing that's interesting, the FBI mentioned that the case with the Bonannos included members of the Todaro Family:

Quote
In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking.


What's interesting is in the same FBI press release that contains the above quote, all of the defendants listed are all in the NYC area. So, who are the members and associates of the Todaro family that were arrested? Wouldn't there be a list of their names somewhere if they were arrested and formally charged with a crime?

Sorry if I missed it earlier, but I can't seem to find who the Todaro family members are who were arrested anywhere.


That is the frustrating thing, they were never listed.

There is much conjecture and very little in the way of real answers as to who the Todaro people are.
  • Some say those who were arrested are currently Buffalo members--i.e. one theory is that they are the Violi Brothers as their Grandfather had strong ties to Buffalo.
  • Others say the Violi's and their clan are Bonanno--because they were at a Bonanno making ceremony and Buffalo may have been absorbed by a NYC family like the Bonannos.
  • Some say what is left of Buffalo/Todaro were absorbed by a Ndrangheta family--i.e. Luppino whom some reports several years ago indicated Dominic Violi was the heir apparent leader.
  • Others believe the "Todaro" family members are left over Buffalo Crime Family that are just working with one of the Ndrangheta clans in Canada because Buffalo is defunct with no administration.
  • Another theory is that the current families and mob organizations are much less structured and work much more across organizational and family lines--See the Anna Sergi article:New York Crime Families Survive & Colaborate .

Did I miss any theories?

Last edited by NickleCity; 09/25/18 04:20 PM. Reason: Added article
Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954079
09/25/18 10:29 PM
09/25/18 10:29 PM
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NickyfromTampa Offline
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Stubbs and Nickle.

I don't mean any disrespect, but the "members and associates" of the Todaro crime family were not in the NYC area. They were in Canada. That's okay, we all make mistakes. Here is the official quote from the Justice Department.

"In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking."

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: NickyfromTampa] #954082
09/26/18 12:22 AM
09/26/18 12:22 AM
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NickleCity Offline
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Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Stubbs and Nickle.

I don't mean any disrespect, but the "members and associates" of the Todaro crime family were not in the NYC area. They were in Canada. That's okay, we all make mistakes. Here is the official quote from the Justice Department.

"In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking."


Never meant to insinuate they were from NYC. Not sure Stubbs did either. Can’t speak for him, but I didn’t take his comment that way. I assumed he was just asking if any of those arrested in Canada were identified as Todaro family members. The US Attorney did list those Bonanno and Gambino members/associates who were from the NYC area and were arrested in that operation. Here they are:

Quote
The Defendants:

DAMIANO ZUMMO
Age: 44
Residence: Roslyn Heights, New York

SALVATORE RUSSO
Age: 45
Residence: Bellmore, New York

PAUL SEMPLICE
Age: 54
Residence: Brooklyn, New York

PAUL RAGUSA
Age: 46
Residence: Brooklyn, New York

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954083
09/26/18 12:43 AM
09/26/18 12:43 AM
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I was on Peter Edwards website and he has to have it looks 4 books on Canada LCN there has to he at least 6-7 books out there.

Anyone read any of them?

Some of the answers as to historic structure could be answered.

I think that's the only way we are going to get answers?

Nikel, just a though what about a FOIA request on he Violi bros?

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954091
09/26/18 06:58 AM
09/26/18 06:58 AM
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Bensonhurst, I could be wrong here, but I am 99% sure that you cannot do a FOIA request on people that are still living. Deceased individuals only.

Nickle, I accept that and I know you wouldn't have looked at it that way. Just clarifying for Stubbs. I know that you know this Nickle, but the following individuals and their allegiances are, as follows:
1. Damiano Zummo, Bonanno family acting capo - behind the induction ceremony in Canada.
2. Salvatore Russo, Bonanno associate and cousin of Zummo.
3. Paul Semplice, Gambino soldier and noted member of family's Sicilian faction.
4. Paul Ragusa, Gambino associate. Former member of Giannini crew which was what Bonanno soldier/turncoat Vincenzo Morena was in before being deported.

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: bronx] #954103
09/26/18 08:24 AM
09/26/18 08:24 AM
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NickleCity Offline
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Paula Manning (Pete Edwards Source about Musitano Hit, arrests, and Buffalo) tweeted this a while back: Pat Musitano talking with Johnny Catz from Buffalo after Pops hit

Manning indicated Buffalo gave permission for Pops to be hit. Does this change some understandings about what went on then, and Buffalo’s ability to have a say in Canada today?

Re: another mob guy murdered [Re: NickleCity] #954107
09/26/18 10:28 AM
09/26/18 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by NickleCity
Paula Manning (Pete Edwards Source about Musitano Hit, arrests, and Buffalo) tweeted this a while back: Pat Musitano talking with Johnny Catz from Buffalo after Pops hit

Manning indicated Buffalo gave permission for Pops to be hit. Does this change some understandings about what went on then, and Buffalo’s ability to have a say in Canada today?


Now this IS interesting. Thanks for bringing this up Nickle. It would make a whole lot of sense that Buffalo gave permission since by 1997 Buffalo was still a functioning family and there should have been retaliation otherwise. I think the Musitanos were in Buffalo's orbit too and they were capable of taking over Papalia's businesses with Buffalo likely still receiving their cut as has been stated in previous recent articles.

My take on Buffalo is that even though the remaining members seem to have gone legit, particulary the Todaros, they still hold positions of influence and respect in the underworld in the Niagara region and Southern Ontario. It can't be ruled out that they still have a say in the ongoings and perhaps still receiving a cut of the profits from associates that are still active. Just no longer a functioning family with an actual hierarchy on the American side. At the very least they are probably still consulted for advice in business and conflict.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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