These two are most likely the worse bosses seen in modern times. Rusty would not drop the mantle of Boss; until he got sick and died in the early 90's. He let a powerful captain in Carmine Galante take near total control of the family. Didn't work out for Cigars. Rusty was in and out or prison and only kept control through Massino; Without Massino; I believe Rusty would have been disposed.

On the other hand;

Persico; Has ran the family since the 70's. He's been in and out of prison his whole life; Only keeping control in prison via blood family members. He was briefly out on the streets; I believe in 79-81. Has control today; and hasn't had any resistance since Orena.

I have several questions here.

1. How did the other commission members feel about these two; Speaking specifically about Big Paul, Ducks Corallo; and Chin Gigante.
2. How was Persico on the streets as Boss in the 79-81? Was he respected at all by his contemporaries?
3. What years was Rusty out on the street as Boss? I don't recall any dates.

Persico was on the streets longer than that. He was arrested while on the lam in the mid-80s.

Carmine has not been the boss for years and years

So he just holds the title ''Boss'' while some of his blood family hold the power?

@ Moe; I knew he was on the lamb; but he wasn't carrying out boss duties and meeting with his underlings during that time. I know from 79'-81'. He was on the streets on parole and carrying out traditional boss duties. etc: attending commission meetings; business dealings, and meeting with underlings.

Pretty much just like many used to while boss was locked up ..... when you see the next picture of Carmine that comes out you will understand.

Everyone is looking at pictures from 25 years ago or more he is in his upper 80’s and has not been in the loop other then something major he probably don’t hear much.

There is someone watching over the family and it’s mainly blood for what I have gathered through the years and he is doing a good job .... you can tell when they do a good job because you don’t hear about them.

Great question I think Carmine is just a figure head at this point and who really want the boss seat .I believe Carmine only hold the boss seat because of blood family members and being made before 1957.

It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to say that the Bonanno's have always been a slight mess; or at least ever since Bonanno himself unleashed his inner Hemingway. There doesn't seem to be much of a structure. At times the Bonanno saga feels like watching a bunch of criminals doing as they please, working past each other. Despite the efforts, there hasn't been any boss who could've really restored order for an ample enough period. Rastelli wasn't capable enough, Galante cared more about his skag...Massino was looking for stability, but eventually ended up singing like a canary. Being the Bonanno boss is a curse more than anything.

The Persicos appear to have lost control. If I was forced to guess I'd say that Luca and his guys are running the show. The real boss of that group used to be Joe Waverly and he's coming home in about a year or two.

The Colombo's were always known to have a disproportionate number of savages in their ranks. This seems to have mellowed in recent times. The family seems to be pretty stable nowadays. Whoever is REALLY running the family - most probably not Snake - is doing a solid job.

Why would u say the persico’s have lost control? Teddy persico jr is without a doubt going to take over the streets when he gets out in 2020. Many people have named teddy next in line to take over after Carmine passes. And persico loyalists such as Tommy Gioeli, Ralph Deleo, and Andy mush Russo have been the street bosses in the past 10 years.

Teddy is lose “ well he was always before and it was known....see if you party to much and don’t use it to your advantage someone wis using that advantage on you !

I don’t know but I am sure he will b watched by the family closely way before they just lay shit in front of him there a several mature guys and there sons and nephews doing well finally.

I am just guessing one blood member holds the spot and another one keeping the legit stuff rolling.

On reflective thought Persico has been boss since 70s regardless of being in pen or not and has had blood in power for him whilst he’s inside (even Orena was a distant cousin funnily enough!). Remember in lcn for all these guys what’s more important - the good of the crime family or their own personal interests? With that in mind snake has done the best he could of. Kept power regardless of anything and that’s what matters most as a boss. Why would he step down and let some other sociopath make money, this ain’t a government job.

Persico main 2 mistakes was not taking a plea on the gun possession charge or something back in the 60s which ended up costing serious jail time. and the other mistake was unavoidable - trumps lawyer wasn’t failing in the commission case. All bosses had to fall there.

He did not give up the title and he is still there to take the charge as boss but he has not been Day to Day in decades there is blood running it and more blood watching the blood .....one thing that can not happen is history and another war !

Everyone is close and it looks like they are all on same page and not reaching for shit to get pinched like Teddy “ he has bad track record but he is older now but only time will tell and there is several young blood members that are involved so they are not pushing there grandsons and nephews ect away they are welcome in.

First of all, Carmine Persico was not on the lam from 1981-mid '80s. He was arrested in 1981, served a couple years in prison and was out of jail just in time for his next indictment. He only served a few months on the run before Fred DeChristopher gave him up.

Second, don't buy into anything that says the Persicos don't have any power anymore. There is no evidence whatsoever to support that. The last known acting boss was Andrew Russo, Carmine's first cousin who has been nothing but loyal to the Persicos since the 1970s. Before him was Ralph DeLeo, who had a panel under him helping run things. DeLeo was only brought into the family through Little Allie Boy, whom he met in prison. And although we don't know all the members of the panel beneath him, we know that Theodore Persico Jr. was, and we also know that Teddy Jr. was being groomed to take the reigns. We also know that, in the last known (aborted) making ceremony, the Persico influence was still strong even in the younger generations. You had Angelo Spata, the son-in-law of Carmine. You had Francis Guerra, Little Allie Boy's close friend in the 1990s. And you had Ilario Sessa, a staunch Persico loyalist during the war who was shot at by Orena rebels.
So, in short, all the evidence at hand points to the fact that the Persico brood is still firmly in charge. I know it's interesting to suggest that there are other forces at play, but just look at the evidence. Unless some enormous leadership shakeup happened from 2011 to today, the Persicos are still in charge, and they still have significant allies and sway on the streets.

Re: your first paragraph, who are you correcting there?

Zavattoni said Carmine was on the streets as boss from 79-81. You said, no he was on the lam until the mid-80s. Which can make people assume he was on the streets from 79 until the mid-80s. Or it can even make people assume he was on the lam from 81 until the mid-1980s.

he was found at a house on long island or staten in1985 . i rememebr the cousin of andy russo rated him out. he testified at the commission trial. carmine qustioned him on the stand and if turned bad for all the bosses

theres wanted posters of carmine and jerry lang think they ran before the colombo leadership trial. a big rico rite before all the bosses where indicted for the commission rico

rusty gets out in late 1983 to late 86 i believe till he was convicted with massino. oct 86. that was his 3 yr window as boss very simular to carmine persico who became official boss nov 1980 till he was convicted in mid 1985. carmine was sentenced in 85 to like 30yrs for the colombo case so he was only on the street like 2 yrs as boss. he did like 1 2 yrs for bribing a fbi or irs agent something weird

Fred DeChristopher was the brother-in-law of Andrew Russo, not the cousin. DeChristopher housed him for his few months on the lam. He was indicted in October 1984 and DeChristopher gave him up in February of 1985.

I think you're being pedantic.

I was simply pointing out that he was on the streets longer than he implied. I think most people can infer that.

sal vitale testified rustelli inducted him into the family april 1984. so im guessing the commission aproved a few guy for there family when he got out a few months earlier. im guessing phil had a longer run on the street then carmine ever had from oct 1983 till oct 1986 rusty was indicted 2times but made bail. carmine i dont think had more then 2 yrs on the street as official boss. in middle 1981 carmine plead guilty to bribing a fake fbi irs agent he took 5 yrs hoping he would be paroled quickly theres a good ny times article on this. him and his lawyer frank lopez disputed he was the boss or even in organized crime. that must be the first time a boss plead guilty. his dumb ass should have seen the writting on the wall in 1985 86 during the colombo trial had the whole 12 or so of them do what they do today a global plea then he wouldnt have got 30 yrs jerry lang 65. they probaly would have dropped them of the commission indictment cause when you plead guilty you give up your appeals

its strange what a weirdo super prosecutor rudy giuliani has become. could you imagine all the crooked shit he did to get a win. he nuts

They are always bending / breaking the law also it’s different when you are fighting crime just ask them .

Carmine had very limited time on the street as boss but he had 40 years on the street and was one of the guys that every boss wanted in his family Carmine knew every dam racket there was he had guys in everything. That’s where he gets the respect from and knowing he will kill anyone.

I believe it was Joe Valachi who had the quote "Whenever there was business on the street. Persico was always there."

I have to wonder what goes through the mind of Persico after locked up all these years. Brothers and Sons in and out of prison. Trying to maintain control while in a cage. I wonder if he could do it all over again with the same result would he?

I don't think the Genovese family were too fond of Rusty. In this documentary, they have audio of Tony Salerno saying that he told someone 80 times they can't sit on the Commission. I presume he's referring to Rastelli.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzSGUs-_zQk&t=1456s

Also I have read in several places that Chin was backing Sonny Red in the Bonanno family conflict.


Not too sure about Persico. Can't think of any instance of them badmouthing him off the top of my head though. Like Serpiente said, he didn't have much time out of prison as boss, but 40 years to build his reputation beforehand.

@MightyDR


I might be wrong, but I think Fat Tony was talking about a Bonanno drug crew.....

He was saying Rastelli could be boss, but their family was TOO caught up in drugs to be on the Commision or near any of the other bosses......


I think he said something like, " they're junk guys, they got a crew with 80 guys".... something like that... I'm not sure if he said 80 times.....

It's one of the main reasons I've always felt the Bonnanos were the trusted NY distributors of Sicilian heroin...... Whereas all the other American wiseguys were threatened with " Deal and Die"...

I'm sure he said 80 times, but totally agree about the Bonannos and drugs. I'm pretty sure Vincent Cafaro said something along the lines of all he knew about the Bonannos was that they were all into drugs. Salerno said something like that on another wiretap.

Which does make it odd that Gigante was backing Sonny Red, a known trafficker, to be boss.

Chin was definitely backing sonny red?! So were Westside not asked for approval on the 3 capos hit or were they outvoted? Obviously the Gambino approved it. But wasn’t it a commission backed hit?

The Gambinos also never had a problem with dope they had guys like Pasquale Conte.