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The fumbling Lucchese administration #938976
05/05/18 03:55 AM
05/05/18 03:55 AM
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Neo Offline OP
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I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.





Last edited by Neo; 05/05/18 04:01 AM.
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #938977
05/05/18 04:53 AM
05/05/18 04:53 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #938978
05/05/18 06:06 AM
05/05/18 06:06 AM
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Moe_Tilden Offline
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Originally Posted by Neo
I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.






Isn't that the way it's always been? Any time I've read about mob murders there has always been approximately half a dozen people directly involved. And it seems they would involve more people sometimes precisely because they would be implicated, and that would ensure their silence and loyalty. Which seems to backfire when they do it now.

There's also the theory that a) these guys are just middle aged farts and aren't really gangsters in the truest sense of the word, and/or b) that they're so terrified of prison they don't want to get their hands dirty, so keep the risks to a minimum.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #938979
05/05/18 06:34 AM
05/05/18 06:34 AM
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Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: furio_from_naples] #938983
05/05/18 07:03 AM
05/05/18 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.



I'd rather do the hit myself than have two guys do the hit and get caught then rat me out, or rat me out 10-20 years from now when they are facing heavy time for other stuff.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Moe_Tilden] #938984
05/05/18 07:09 AM
05/05/18 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted by Neo
I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.






Isn't that the way it's always been? Any time I've read about mob murders there has always been approximately half a dozen people directly involved. And it seems they would involve more people sometimes precisely because they would be implicated, and that would ensure their silence and loyalty. Which seems to backfire when they do it now.

There's also the theory that a) these guys are just middle aged farts and aren't really gangsters in the truest sense of the word, and/or b) that they're so terrified of prison they don't want to get their hands dirty, so keep the risks to a minimum.




The more people that are involved in a hit, the more potential witnesses there are to burn you in court.

Madonna and Crea Sr ain't terrified of prison, both have done time, especially Madonna.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: MightyDR] #938985
05/05/18 07:17 AM
05/05/18 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by MightyDR
Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?


Nobody would expect a 82 year old to pull the trigger, not even Meldish, that is why Madonna should have done the hit himself, nobody would have suspected him of pulling the trigger. He should have asked Meldish to come see him, then give him two to the head.

Basciano allegedly went trigger man himself for his own hits as Acting boss because he couldn't trust anyone.

Last edited by Neo; 05/05/18 07:19 AM.
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: MightyDR] #938986
05/05/18 07:18 AM
05/05/18 07:18 AM
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naples,italy
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Originally Posted by MightyDR
Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?


On May of 2015, the investigators arrested alleged Lucchese member Christopher Londonio and alleged Lucchese associate Terrance “T” Caldwell for the Meldish murder.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939000
05/05/18 11:41 AM
05/05/18 11:41 AM
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madonna orderd the hit i think crea and his kid walk beat that murder. londonio and the black go down and madonna who is old as hell like what 85 now wonder if he makes it to trial.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: pmac] #939008
05/05/18 12:40 PM
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Terrence ' T ' Caldwell is the name of the shooter.


If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't spend the night with a mosquito.
- African Proverb
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: furio_from_naples] #939014
05/05/18 02:38 PM
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That all go down on conspiracy-no???


"Whackin' the boss....another thing I get left out of."
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939020
05/05/18 04:02 PM
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Yaeh the black guy also shot a bonanno soldier in east harlem. He must have been on the bosses payroll if hes doing hits like these. I also wonder how many hits he did in the past. Guy must be a stone cold killer. Creas also indicted for shaking down some hospital in the bronx for millions hes all done. Capeci wrote in his last article the da is holding onto evidence from a rat that will free one of tue defendants from the meldish murder. Probaly crea sr. I bet. His kids the capo who takes orders from Madonna. Chris londonio is in his crew .

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939038
05/05/18 09:04 PM
05/05/18 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by MightyDR
Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?


Nobody would expect a 82 year old to pull the trigger, not even Meldish, that is why Madonna should have done the hit himself, nobody would have suspected him of pulling the trigger. He should have asked Meldish to come see him, then give him two to the head.


lol! lol That would have been badass

Looked over the indictment and some articles on the case and still can't see how they tied the murder to Madonna. Looking forward to the trial.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: pmac] #939039
05/05/18 09:15 PM
05/05/18 09:15 PM
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tiger84 Offline
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Originally Posted by pmac
Yaeh the black guy also shot a bonanno soldier in east harlem. He must have been on the bosses payroll if hes doing hits like these. I also wonder how many hits he did in the past. Guy must be a stone cold killer.


Black guy must of had a rep as killer way before he was with the luchese probably got his start in his neighborhood during the crack epidemic then when the kingpins went to jail started doing freelance muscle work for anyone willing to pay

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: pmac] #939046
05/06/18 12:56 AM
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"The fumbling Lucchese administration." - No. This chain of command is what the mob has been doing for years?

Originally Posted by Neo
I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Again, it's obvious why you "keep it in the family." It's a lot rarer for wiseguys to flip on their father/son as opposed to a capo with no familial relations. Crea Sr. gave the contract to his son because his son would obviously be most reliable, trustworthy person to give it to.

Originally Posted by Neo

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.

I-N-S-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. It's not a new concept. It's what the mob has been doing for years. What's the point of being the boss if you still have to whack guys yourself?
You think Matty Madonna, an 82-year-old man, would whack Meldish himself? Do a drive-by on his house, and pull the trigger? He's a fucking geriatric. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.

No, Furio, it's because Crea Jr. is a capo, and capos generally don't commit hits themselves. Chain of command. It's not a new concept.
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.


Originally Posted by Neo

I'd rather do the hit myself than have two guys do the hit and get caught then rat me out, or rat me out 10-20 years from now when they are facing heavy time for other stuff.


Except neither Londonio or Caldwell have ratted anyone out (yet). So throw that argument out the window.
I have news for you. If you order an underling to commit a hit, you can generally get away with a 15 year plea deal, due to the fact that you're guilty of "murder conspiracy" as opposed to first-degree murder or whatever. If you commit the murder yourself, and pull the trigger, you're looking at life.
And what the fuck do you except Madonna or Crea Sr. to do? The way the hit went down implies that Meldish wasn't looking to attend any meetings, so they whacked him outside his house. Madonna & Crea Sr. are geriatrics, their reflexes aren't so slow, their eyesight probably isn't too good, their hand-eye coordination probably isn't too good. This isn't an unfair assumption, due to their age. What's the bet that, due to all of this, Meldish would be able to get the better of them and return him? Or, even if they do whack him, what's the bet that, due to all of the reasons I outlined, they'll do something wrong and accidentally leave evidence? Then you've got a life sentence for first-degree murder-in-aid-of-racketeering.
If you ORDER a hit, and it passes through the rigors of a chain-of-command, you've insulated yourself to point where it is very hard for the feds to make a case against you. I don't know exactly how they pinched Madonna and Crea Sr., but I can tell you that it's not their fault the hit was solved so quickly. Caldwell and Londonio fucked up big time, they used their own fucking car and hung around the scene for ages before and after, they managed to tie Caldwell's cellphone records to the scene, they caught Londonio a week beforein a car with a shit-ton of guns. Those two are dimwits, and they are the reason the hit was solved. That was most likely an oversight on Crea Jr.'s part. It doesn't indicate a "fumbling administration."
Originally Posted by Neo
[quote=MightyDR]Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?


Basciano allegedly went trigger man himself for his own hits as Acting boss because he couldn't trust anyone.


Not true. If you knew anything about Basciano, you'd know that he ordered hits through the standard chain-of-command just like bosses before and after him.

Originally Posted by sittite
That all go down on conspiracy-no???

Yep. And conspiracy is far better than first-degree murder. Hell, if Madonna keeps himself up with a good diet and exercise in the can he can probably even make it out alive, same with Crea Jr.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: tiger84] #939047
05/06/18 12:57 AM
05/06/18 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger84
Originally Posted by pmac
Yaeh the black guy also shot a bonanno soldier in east harlem. He must have been on the bosses payroll if hes doing hits like these. I also wonder how many hits he did in the past. Guy must be a stone cold killer.


Black guy must of had a rep as killer way before he was with the luchese probably got his start in his neighborhood during the crack epidemic then when the kingpins went to jail started doing freelance muscle work for anyone willing to pay


It's not hard to forget a nickname like " T" yall. Terrence Caldwell is most likely from Harlem and grew up in the heroin era ( 70s) . Whichever crew that was around back then is where his racketeering activities started. He either knows someone that associated with the Italians or reputation was enough to be outsource. Better question is how long he have done hits for the crime families.


If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't spend the night with a mosquito.
- African Proverb
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: BlackFamily] #939057
05/06/18 03:28 AM
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It's not hard to forget a nickname like " T" yall. Terrence Caldwell is most likely from Harlem and grew up in the heroin era ( 70s) . Whichever crew that was around back then is where his racketeering activities started. He either knows someone that associated with the Italians or reputation was enough to be outsource. Better question is how long he have done hits for the crime families. [/quote]

If thats right.Then in the 70s he would of been around Nicky barnes organization.Makes sense because NB and Madonna were in buisness back then so it must of been how he was introduced to the italians

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: NickyfromTampa] #939061
05/06/18 03:59 AM
05/06/18 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
"The fumbling Lucchese administration." - No. This chain of command is what the mob has been doing for years?

Originally Posted by Neo
I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Again, it's obvious why you "keep it in the family." It's a lot rarer for wiseguys to flip on their father/son as opposed to a capo with no familial relations. Crea Sr. gave the contract to his son because his son would obviously be most reliable, trustworthy person to give it to.

Originally Posted by Neo

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.

I-N-S-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. It's not a new concept. It's what the mob has been doing for years. What's the point of being the boss if you still have to whack guys yourself?
You think Matty Madonna, an 82-year-old man, would whack Meldish himself? Do a drive-by on his house, and pull the trigger? He's a fucking geriatric. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.

No, Furio, it's because Crea Jr. is a capo, and capos generally don't commit hits themselves. Chain of command. It's not a new concept.
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.


Originally Posted by Neo

I'd rather do the hit myself than have two guys do the hit and get caught then rat me out, or rat me out 10-20 years from now when they are facing heavy time for other stuff.


Except neither Londonio or Caldwell have ratted anyone out (yet). So throw that argument out the window.
I have news for you. If you order an underling to commit a hit, you can generally get away with a 15 year plea deal, due to the fact that you're guilty of "murder conspiracy" as opposed to first-degree murder or whatever. If you commit the murder yourself, and pull the trigger, you're looking at life.
And what the fuck do you except Madonna or Crea Sr. to do? The way the hit went down implies that Meldish wasn't looking to attend any meetings, so they whacked him outside his house. Madonna & Crea Sr. are geriatrics, their reflexes aren't so slow, their eyesight probably isn't too good, their hand-eye coordination probably isn't too good. This isn't an unfair assumption, due to their age. What's the bet that, due to all of this, Meldish would be able to get the better of them and return him? Or, even if they do whack him, what's the bet that, due to all of the reasons I outlined, they'll do something wrong and accidentally leave evidence? Then you've got a life sentence for first-degree murder-in-aid-of-racketeering.
If you ORDER a hit, and it passes through the rigors of a chain-of-command, you've insulated yourself to point where it is very hard for the feds to make a case against you. I don't know exactly how they pinched Madonna and Crea Sr., but I can tell you that it's not their fault the hit was solved so quickly. Caldwell and Londonio fucked up big time, they used their own fucking car and hung around the scene for ages before and after, they managed to tie Caldwell's cellphone records to the scene, they caught Londonio a week beforein a car with a shit-ton of guns. Those two are dimwits, and they are the reason the hit was solved. That was most likely an oversight on Crea Jr.'s part. It doesn't indicate a "fumbling administration."
Originally Posted by Neo
[quote=MightyDR]Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?


Basciano allegedly went trigger man himself for his own hits as Acting boss because he couldn't trust anyone.


Not true. If you knew anything about Basciano, you'd know that he ordered hits through the standard chain-of-command just like bosses before and after him.

Originally Posted by sittite
That all go down on conspiracy-no???

Yep. And conspiracy is far better than first-degree murder. Hell, if Madonna keeps himself up with a good diet and exercise in the can he can probably even make it out alive, same with Crea Jr.


I wish I could answer to your post but I don't have the posting skills to separately quote your paragraphs. It was a fucking mess when I attempted it.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939062
05/06/18 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
"The fumbling Lucchese administration." - No. This chain of command is what the mob has been doing for years?

Originally Posted by Neo
I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Again, it's obvious why you "keep it in the family." It's a lot rarer for wiseguys to flip on their father/son as opposed to a capo with no familial relations. Crea Sr. gave the contract to his son because his son would obviously be most reliable, trustworthy person to give it to.

Originally Posted by Neo

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.

I-N-S-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. It's not a new concept. It's what the mob has been doing for years. What's the point of being the boss if you still have to whack guys yourself?
You think Matty Madonna, an 82-year-old man, would whack Meldish himself? Do a drive-by on his house, and pull the trigger? He's a fucking geriatric. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.

No, Furio, it's because Crea Jr. is a capo, and capos generally don't commit hits themselves. Chain of command. It's not a new concept.
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.


Originally Posted by Neo

I'd rather do the hit myself than have two guys do the hit and get caught then rat me out, or rat me out 10-20 years from now when they are facing heavy time for other stuff.


Except neither Londonio or Caldwell have ratted anyone out (yet). So throw that argument out the window.
I have news for you. If you order an underling to commit a hit, you can generally get away with a 15 year plea deal, due to the fact that you're guilty of "murder conspiracy" as opposed to first-degree murder or whatever. If you commit the murder yourself, and pull the trigger, you're looking at life.
And what the fuck do you except Madonna or Crea Sr. to do? The way the hit went down implies that Meldish wasn't looking to attend any meetings, so they whacked him outside his house. Madonna & Crea Sr. are geriatrics, their reflexes aren't so slow, their eyesight probably isn't too good, their hand-eye coordination probably isn't too good. This isn't an unfair assumption, due to their age. What's the bet that, due to all of this, Meldish would be able to get the better of them and return him? Or, even if they do whack him, what's the bet that, due to all of the reasons I outlined, they'll do something wrong and accidentally leave evidence? Then you've got a life sentence for first-degree murder-in-aid-of-racketeering.
If you ORDER a hit, and it passes through the rigors of a chain-of-command, you've insulated yourself to point where it is very hard for the feds to make a case against you. I don't know exactly how they pinched Madonna and Crea Sr., but I can tell you that it's not their fault the hit was solved so quickly. Caldwell and Londonio fucked up big time, they used their own fucking car and hung around the scene for ages before and after, they managed to tie Caldwell's cellphone records to the scene, they caught Londonio a week beforein a car with a shit-ton of guns. Those two are dimwits, and they are the reason the hit was solved. That was most likely an oversight on Crea Jr.'s part. It doesn't indicate a "fumbling administration."
Originally Posted by Neo
[quote=MightyDR]Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?


Basciano allegedly went trigger man himself for his own hits as Acting boss because he couldn't trust anyone.


Not true. If you knew anything about Basciano, you'd know that he ordered hits through the standard chain-of-command just like bosses before and after him.

Originally Posted by sittite
That all go down on conspiracy-no???

Yep. And conspiracy is far better than first-degree murder. Hell, if Madonna keeps himself up with a good diet and exercise in the can he can probably even make it out alive, same with Crea Jr.


I wish I could answer to your post but I don't have the posting skills to separately quote your paragraphs. It was a fucking mess when I attempted it.


No worries. Just respond to the post in general if you must.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939071
05/06/18 07:28 AM
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Annnnd hes back to tell everyone they are wrong and their opinions dont matter and that his generalizations are the only ones that have relativity and he gets to tell you how to respond to his questions, post by post.


Dont worry about what Im doing
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: NickyfromTampa] #939073
05/06/18 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
"The fumbling Lucchese administration." - No. This chain of command is what the mob has been doing for years?

Originally Posted by Neo
I'm just highlighting the bad decision making of the Lucchese administration and their handling of the Meldish hit.

In regards to Crea Sr getting his son involved in the Meldish hit, it seems like a foolish move for a father to order his own son to carry out a hit which could get the son life without parole, especially in this day and age with so many guys willing to flip as soon as they get jammed up.

Again, it's obvious why you "keep it in the family." It's a lot rarer for wiseguys to flip on their father/son as opposed to a capo with no familial relations. Crea Sr. gave the contract to his son because his son would obviously be most reliable, trustworthy person to give it to.

Originally Posted by Neo

Madonna orders Crea Sr to take care of it, Crea Sr gives the contract to his own son and his son gives the contract to two of his crew members. Now five guys are involved in the murder and that means five potential informants. How many fucking guys does it take to pull a fucking trigger? These mobsters keep handing hit contracts down the line so much that it passes through 5-10 fucking people before it gets to a trigger man.

I-N-S-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. It's not a new concept. It's what the mob has been doing for years. What's the point of being the boss if you still have to whack guys yourself?
You think Matty Madonna, an 82-year-old man, would whack Meldish himself? Do a drive-by on his house, and pull the trigger? He's a fucking geriatric. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.

No, Furio, it's because Crea Jr. is a capo, and capos generally don't commit hits themselves. Chain of command. It's not a new concept.
Originally Posted by Neo
[quote=furio_from_naples]Meldish was a stone cold killer so maybe Crea jr thinked that its better to don't risk his life and pass the contract to his crew members.


Originally Posted by Neo

I'd rather do the hit myself than have two guys do the hit and get caught then rat me out, or rat me out 10-20 years from now when they are facing heavy time for other stuff.


Except neither Londonio or Caldwell have ratted anyone out (yet). So throw that argument out the window.
I have news for you. If you order an underling to commit a hit, you can generally get away with a 15 year plea deal, due to the fact that you're guilty of "murder conspiracy" as opposed to first-degree murder or whatever. If you commit the murder yourself, and pull the trigger, you're looking at life.
And what the fuck do you except Madonna or Crea Sr. to do? The way the hit went down implies that Meldish wasn't looking to attend any meetings, so they whacked him outside his house. Madonna & Crea Sr. are geriatrics, their reflexes aren't so slow, their eyesight probably isn't too good, their hand-eye coordination probably isn't too good. This isn't an unfair assumption, due to their age. What's the bet that, due to all of this, Meldish would be able to get the better of them and return him? Or, even if they do whack him, what's the bet that, due to all of the reasons I outlined, they'll do something wrong and accidentally leave evidence? Then you've got a life sentence for first-degree murder-in-aid-of-racketeering.
If you ORDER a hit, and it passes through the rigors of a chain-of-command, you've insulated yourself to point where it is very hard for the feds to make a case against you. I don't know exactly how they pinched Madonna and Crea Sr., but I can tell you that it's not their fault the hit was solved so quickly. Caldwell and Londonio fucked up big time, they used their own fucking car and hung around the scene for ages before and after, they managed to tie Caldwell's cellphone records to the scene, they caught Londonio a week beforein a car with a shit-ton of guns. Those two are dimwits, and they are the reason the hit was solved. That was most likely an oversight on Crea Jr.'s part. It doesn't indicate a "fumbling administration."
Originally Posted by Neo
[quote=MightyDR]Sounds like standard chain-of-command for a mob hit. I wouldn't think 82 year old Madonna would pull the trigger himself. Or any boss for that matter. I can't remember too much of the details from the case. How did they all get indicted for the hit?


Basciano allegedly went trigger man himself for his own hits as Acting boss because he couldn't trust anyone.


Not true. If you knew anything about Basciano, you'd know that he ordered hits through the standard chain-of-command just like bosses before and after him.

Originally Posted by sittite
That all go down on conspiracy-no???

Yep. And conspiracy is far better than first-degree murder. Hell, if Madonna keeps himself up with a good diet and exercise in the can he can probably even make it out alive, same with Crea Jr.


I wish I could answer to your post but I don't have the posting skills to separately quote your paragraphs. It was a fucking mess when I attempted it.


No worries. Just respond to the post in general if you must. [/quote]


I wasn't aware how the hit went down. How could they fuck it up so badly? using their own car for a hit, hanging around the scene and Caldwell took his personal phone on a job. Where the fuck did the mob find these two numb nuts? and NEVER task fucking Crea Jr with assigning hitters EVER again.

Last edited by Neo; 05/06/18 07:52 AM.
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939172
05/07/18 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Neo

I wasn't aware how the hit went down. How could they fuck it up so badly? using their own car for a hit, hanging around the scene and Caldwell took his personal phone on a job. Where the fuck did the mob find these two numb nuts? and NEVER task fucking Crea Jr with assigning hitters EVER again.


You're correct. The hit itself was a disaster - investigators have said themselves that they had pretty much solved the case within a few days of the hit going down and spent the rest of the time making it into a big racketeering indictment - but the planning and chain-of-command was all standard mob protocol. For example, look at the 2009 hit of Anthony Seccafico, the Bonanno soldier. That hit was (most likely) ordered by the administration and passed down the chain-of-command, but there isn't any physical evidence that ties any specific person to it, and it's going on a decade still unsolved. Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, pretty much all mob hits quickly led back to the administration and life sentences were handed out like candys. Nowadays, with less rats due to less intensive FBI surveillance, bosses have a much better chance of getting away with murder.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: NickyfromTampa] #939178
05/07/18 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by Neo

I wasn't aware how the hit went down. How could they fuck it up so badly? using their own car for a hit, hanging around the scene and Caldwell took his personal phone on a job. Where the fuck did the mob find these two numb nuts? and NEVER task fucking Crea Jr with assigning hitters EVER again.


You're correct. The hit itself was a disaster - investigators have said themselves that they had pretty much solved the case within a few days of the hit going down and spent the rest of the time making it into a big racketeering indictment - but the planning and chain-of-command was all standard mob protocol. For example, look at the 2009 hit of Anthony Seccafico, the Bonanno soldier. That hit was (most likely) ordered by the administration and passed down the chain-of-command, but there isn't any physical evidence that ties any specific person to it, and it's going on a decade still unsolved. Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, pretty much all mob hits quickly led back to the administration and life sentences were handed out like candys. Nowadays, with less rats due to less intensive FBI surveillance, bosses have a much better chance of getting away with murder.


When I think about it, there is never going to be top notch guys doing the trigger work, it will always be scrubs doing the trigger work. The smartest guys in the mob are busy earning, not shooting.

The mob hitters are so shitty at doing hits that the mob should think about subcontracting hits out to another OC group.







Last edited by Neo; 05/07/18 03:51 AM.
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939195
05/07/18 10:08 AM
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Since we’re on the topic of the lucheses, what was the whole story of the attempted enzo stagno hit?

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939205
05/07/18 12:37 PM
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disrespected Crea again??

enzo was involved in The club that wouldn't let him in I think..?

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Jeremythejew] #939207
05/07/18 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremythejew
disrespected Crea again??

enzo was involved in The club that wouldn't let him in I think..?


Thought I read something that a couple of the other families didn't like that they were making guys without consulting with them or just making too many guys.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Jeremythejew] #939209
05/07/18 01:25 PM
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That wasnt enzo. The whole club incident happened in late 2012.

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: Neo] #939234
05/07/18 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by Neo

I wasn't aware how the hit went down. How could they fuck it up so badly? using their own car for a hit, hanging around the scene and Caldwell took his personal phone on a job. Where the fuck did the mob find these two numb nuts? and NEVER task fucking Crea Jr with assigning hitters EVER again.


You're correct. The hit itself was a disaster - investigators have said themselves that they had pretty much solved the case within a few days of the hit going down and spent the rest of the time making it into a big racketeering indictment - but the planning and chain-of-command was all standard mob protocol. For example, look at the 2009 hit of Anthony Seccafico, the Bonanno soldier. That hit was (most likely) ordered by the administration and passed down the chain-of-command, but there isn't any physical evidence that ties any specific person to it, and it's going on a decade still unsolved. Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, pretty much all mob hits quickly led back to the administration and life sentences were handed out like candys. Nowadays, with less rats due to less intensive FBI surveillance, bosses have a much better chance of getting away with murder.


When I think about it, there is never going to be top notch guys doing the trigger work, it will always be scrubs doing the trigger work. The smartest guys in the mob are busy earning, not shooting.

The mob hitters are so shitty at doing hits that the mob should think about subcontracting hits out to another OC group.








Theu still do subcontract hits to other crime groups. The UBN members are doing some for them. So far they have been successfull with the exception of a couple of cases.


If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't spend the night with a mosquito.
- African Proverb
Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: BlackFamily] #939241
05/07/18 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackFamily
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by Neo

I wasn't aware how the hit went down. How could they fuck it up so badly? using their own car for a hit, hanging around the scene and Caldwell took his personal phone on a job. Where the fuck did the mob find these two numb nuts? and NEVER task fucking Crea Jr with assigning hitters EVER again.


You're correct. The hit itself was a disaster - investigators have said themselves that they had pretty much solved the case within a few days of the hit going down and spent the rest of the time making it into a big racketeering indictment - but the planning and chain-of-command was all standard mob protocol. For example, look at the 2009 hit of Anthony Seccafico, the Bonanno soldier. That hit was (most likely) ordered by the administration and passed down the chain-of-command, but there isn't any physical evidence that ties any specific person to it, and it's going on a decade still unsolved. Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, pretty much all mob hits quickly led back to the administration and life sentences were handed out like candys. Nowadays, with less rats due to less intensive FBI surveillance, bosses have a much better chance of getting away with murder.


When I think about it, there is never going to be top notch guys doing the trigger work, it will always be scrubs doing the trigger work. The smartest guys in the mob are busy earning, not shooting.

The mob hitters are so shitty at doing hits that the mob should think about subcontracting hits out to another OC group.



Theu still do subcontract hits to other crime groups. The UBN members are doing some for them. So far they have been successfull with the exception of a couple of cases.


Which cases are the exception?

Re: The fumbling Lucchese administration [Re: NickyfromTampa] #939320
05/08/18 09:58 AM
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[/quote]

Theu still do subcontract hits to other crime groups. The UBN members are doing some for them. So far they have been successfull with the exception of a couple of cases.[/quote]

Which cases are the exception?[/quote]

It's quite recent one in which they was targeting an associate or made member somewhere in a middle class NYC neighborhood. It was posted on here but i forgot the title. They was circling the area waiting for a right moment but it was some people was around i think. Police got them before they could make that move.


If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't spend the night with a mosquito.
- African Proverb
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