A perfect example was when Frankie Loc stole some oranges and gave one to Gravano, keeped one for himself and gave the remaining three oranges to Gotti who exploded in a rage and blasted Frankie Loc in front of other inmates for giving Gravano an orange before him. How fucked up is that? Gotti must have had a huge ego to do that. Frankie Loc was already looking at life without parole because of Gotti and his big mouth. It's enough to turn a standup guy into a rat.

At that point they had to have been wondering, if they'd killed Gotti instead of Castellano, they'd probably be free men and have three times as much money.

Your right Oak

Yeah i never thought of it that way.Man they backed the wrong horse.Not only that Castellano still would of been boss so the feds wouldnt of have been interested in Sammy and loc that much.I dont know about the money though.GOTTI was boss 5 years before he got caught and noone made a move on him i think because everyone was allowed to keep most of their money the price was that they had to put up with Gottis ego,hich alot of guys would do as long as they kept their money

Even if Castellano didn't get killed,he was still living on borrowed time. He was indicted in what would become the Commission case,and I have no doubt that he would have been convicted along with the others and gotten the 100 year sentence like the rest. Had this happened,it's fun to speculate on who would have taken over. Would Tommy Bilotti (the Underboss) move up,or would another guy be elected by the Capos? Under these circumstances,I don't see Gotti as having a snowball's chance,and in fact HE might have been on the hit list of the new regime. Any thoughts?

Castellano would have gone down in the commission trial. Assuming he doesn't flip, he appoints Bilotti as acting boss, or maybe appoints a ruling panel including Bilotti because although Bilotti is trusted he is also incompetent.

Castellano gives the order from his prison cell to break up Gotti's crew.

Gene Gotti, John Gotti, and a couple of others get hit.

Castellano remains in control of the Gambino family until his death. Again - ASSUMING he doesn't flip.

Castellano and Gravano didn't get along well so it is unlikely Gravano ever gets promoted to capo while Castellano is around. He still had his rackets and legitimate businesses but he would have been making 3 x times less money.

Frankie Loc would have gotten promoted to capo in the late 80's taking over Joseph Armone's crew upon Piney's imprisonment.

Castallano would have gotten 100+ for the case he had and the cases that were about to come.

For as bad as everyone makes Got to out to be

He got caught on a bug

In an apartment that was pretty much a safe haven for a very long time

It was a mistake to talk

All things considered like every other boss he made a mistake

Every boss made their share of mistakes

Gigante should have killed Savino

Massino surrounded himself with guys that would.take a pinch to insulate him

Persico would not give up the reins

Amuso got gassed

Carrollo- caught on bug and gave family to Amuso

Which boss dis everything right?

Every family declined across the board congruently

If you tho k about it the feds spent 100MM to take down For to

I think he gave them as much of a run for their money as anyone else would have

Sorry on my phone my fingers are too big
Sorry for the grammar

Oh that explains it. That part about Massino left me scratching my head.

My personal opinion is that locascio doesn't flipped for don't ruin the possibility to his son salvatore to climb the rank of the gambino;now salvatore locascio is a capo while Cafaro son lost his chance to be made due by the genovese due his father was a rat.

Wasn't Castellano greedy? I may be wrong but I had heard that Castellano made people kick up a lot to him.

I think one of the rumors was Tommy Gambino might've been tapped as acting boss... which is why Quack Quack was telling the other families (Bonannos) that Tommy was a "sissy dressmaker". Tommy G makes a lot of sense that Big Paul would've done that considering his dad Carlo tapping Big Paul as his replacement... old Sicilians keeping it all in the family. Whether that would've been a good idea is a whole 'nother discussion.

I wonder if it would've been a ruling panel of Jimmy Brown, Tommy Gambino, and Gotti (instead of Billoti) if the Gotti crew would've been satisfied.

Why do people always just assume that Castellano was greedy and likely to rat?

The same people spreading that subversive shit about Castellano e.g. Sammy were constantly stabbing other people in the back and wanting pieces of their action. Just look at what Sammy did to the child porn baron, Robert Di Bernardo.

Castellano would never put Gotti on a family ruling panel. He was looking to set Gotti up to get whacked.

Castellano demanded 15% from every soldier and capo. It was 10% until Castellano decided that wasn't enough.

I've seen it insinuated that Castellano was greedy from other people too. There's a segment in Gravano's book that says how FBI bugs found out Donnie Shacks and Gerry Lang were furious that Castellano screwed them out of $50,000 in construction pay-offs.

From "The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Mafia":
"Multimillionaire Mafia boss Paul Castellano was viewed by many contemporaries as a cheapskate who constantly whined about money, as this June 23, 1983, conversation between Luchese capo Salvatore Avellino and boss Anthony Corallo demonstrates. Avellino said he got word that Castellano wanted to meet with them. Corallo sarcastically wondered why, "Is everybody robbing him?".

I can't recall where I heard it, but I'm sure I've heard another wiretap where Tony Ducks says something along the lines of "what fucking Commission?" meaning Fat Tony and Paul Castellano hog everything for themsevles.