Guys, you think the Rizzuto Organisation (before all the deaths) are Richer and more Powerful than the Bonanno crime Family in NYC today?


You think the Bonanno Family this days are more and more a low and weak Organization or not?

I think it's safe to say they have more shooters, money, connections etc. All with the added benefit of weaker scrutiny from law enforcement.

Agreed. Canada is ripe for the picking (not like it's changed) not to mention no death penalty law. Remember, it was the federal death penalty law that Massino was facing that got him to flip. Ironically the guy he set up because of it, Vinny Gorgeous then was tried under that same law and faced death, luckily he got lwop.

I don't really think the Bonannos are incredibly weak. They have reportedly made over 15 guys over the last five years and recent busts show a big influx of young guys.

The Rizzuto's peak coincided with the Bonanno's decline, so at a certain point the Rizzutos were more powerful. They had the cocaine trade, ties to numerous construction companies and many Quebec politicians in their pocket. Now they're in a war that doesn't seem to be resolving soon while the Bonannos are steadily regrouping from the Massino fallout.

Rizzutos might be powerful, but are they really big in size? It seems they only had 20-40 members because they were once a crew of Bonannos. Maybe they had many more associates, but it seems they were not comperable to Bonannos as the latter one has more than 100 soldiers.

it depends because 30 soldiers for exemple can sometimes be better then 150 soldiers (in rare cases but still)
It's the quality not the quantity
That's what the lcn did all the time in the history, many families didn't open the books for years cause they had the right guys already

And for this reason that families like Pittsburgh,Cleveland ecc when the feds hitted hard and arrested many members,who remains on the street simply doesn't have the men and the family become defunct.
Montreal isn't NY,who rules on the rizzuttos must rebuilt the reputation and rebuilt the family knowing that an alliance between bikers,irishs,mob and haitians can't be restored and had only 30-40 soldiers doesn't help.

Look at it like this:

The Rizzutos were powerful, but still very small as an actual family. They seem to be essentially wiped out now. I mean, they still exist at a small level but they no longer have a monopoly on Montreal. That monopoly is long gone, there's likely multiple mob groups (maybe 2-3 at least) now in Montreal doing their own thing independent of each other.

The Bonannos, for as much as they got hurt by Massino and Vitale flipping, are still in power and a viable family. Like I'm sure the FBI knows who all of the captains and most of the soldiers are, and has a decent idea of the structure. Obviously they don't have a monopoly because there's five families, and they'll never be as strong as they were back then, but the family's hierarchy still exists.

The Rizzuto's hierarchy / family structure seems broken. The people who have more power in Montreal now likely don't give a shit about joining the "Rizzuto Family" or whatever. Montreal at their peak seemed far closer to a confederation of different drug trafficking groups than a traditional LCN family.

Stubbs and furio i agree with you guys i know that's why I said in rare cases...

the bonanno's are stronger, they have 130/150 made members i don't know how many associates probably about 1.000
the rizzuto's were a bonanno crew, maybe they became independent in the early 2000s
anyway cosa nostra (rizzuto family or whatever you want to call it) is still the strongest criminal group in montreal

The force of Rizzutos under Vito was the connections with politicians,rogue cops,construction s ecc Vito was also a peacemaker in few words the street thugs respected Vito; now who control the family maybe Leonardo Rizzuto that had ties with the angels isn't charismatic as his father and the Siderno group want to take montreal.
The Bonanno had max 120 made men and no way 1000 associates maybe 400-500.

Yes I think that Furio is right the Sicilians are in decline in Montreal Clan Ndrangheta and the Cotroni family already established in Montreal want to eradicate the Rizzuto family.
I have a question moreover we see more and more family of Cosa Nostra in North America in declines as we could discuss in other positions, I would like to know if most families were brought to disappear if Sicilian Clans leave to settle in North America as the Ndrangheta Clan currently do

Miklo the sicilian mafia consider the americans like cousins while the ndrine are blood related families that send their members around the world but the roots and the decision remains in Calabria. The rizzutos enemy aka the Siderno group take the name by Siderno in Calabria.
While a sicilian or a Neapolitan could decide to join the american mafia a Calabrian will prefer to ask his ndrine the ok to start a group out the Calabria.

Thank you Furio for this analysis and you think of how long the Ndrangheta will be a force equivalent or even stronger in the United States than the Cosa Nostra?

1000 associates at the beginning of the 21st century is very well possible Fur. The Bonannos at that time were at their peak before all the indictments decimated them..

Also, Selwyn Raab writes in his book that Law Enforcement states that for every made man in the Five Families, there are 5-10 associates and the Bonannos had around 150 made men in early 2000's, again according to Raab in his book Five Families..

I know that apart Gambino and Genovese that had 5 associates every made men the others had only 3. Nut if Raab write so for sure he's right.

How much of the associates are italians ?

Law enforcement mentioned the number 10 in multiple ocassions, Joe Pistone also stated in his book that a made member had everage 10 connected guys with him. I think its impossible to know the real number or even an estimate. But if a small family or clan with about 20 or 30 members could function well then it seems there should be plenty of associates. Cant imagine Rizzutos climb to the top of Montreal underworld without hundreads of manpower.

ndrangheta never will be stronger than cosa nostra in the states, it has just some crew over there but cosa nostra and also sicilian mafia are by far stronger
sicilians are more connected to ny families than ndrangheta
and in montreal/quebec sicilian mafia is stronger, ndrangheta is stronger in toronto/ontario

I have no idea but in 2018 the most are non-italians depend by the family.

I'd rather have the Bonanno's mad at me then the Rizzuto's !!

most of associates are italian, hard to say how many
a made man can have 15, 10, 5 or 3 around him, it depends
sure the rizzuto's have tons of associates although less made members than the bonanno's
but bonanno's are still active in montreal, probably the arcuri's are on the bonanno side and they moved war to the rizzuto's

If you compare the Montreal Mafia as a whole with the Bonannos then Montreal will be on par with that family if you include all associates. The Rizzutos had a supervisory role in Montreal, but they did not control everybody as is the case in a streamlined organization like a New York family. And within the traditional hierarchy they were subservient to the Bonannos. If you look at power you have to look at longevity as well. The Bonanno organization has been in existance long before the Rizzutos formed their own and despite many setbacks are still a viable organization while the Rizzutos are now dispersed and weakened. History has shown the families in New York are much more solid than whatever is in Canada, which also happens to be the reason why Canada is far more intriguing for me. New York is really boring nowadays compared to what is happening north of the border.

Do the rizzutos still have control of that huge sports book?