The organization is dead but some members are not. Simple as that.

The last post on that form was back in 2016! Are you guys serious? Should we create a single thread for each crime family???

I take some issues with Rooster's posts in the 2016 thread. I won't take what Giacomo Vacari says into account because he is an exposed & admitted liar.

"Members are still under surveillance by BPD and NYS Police, Im not sure about the Feds but they are thought to be viable per local and state law enforecement's definition." - There is no evidence of this happening, and if BPD and NYS police have been stalking mobsters continuously for over a decade, there would be at least one bust now. Also, I don't recall LE ever saying the mob is still active in Buffalo, and news reports have cited LE as saying the opposite.

"Per FBI standards they may be dead because they dont need to go after them at a federal level and resources go after the big drug suppliers there (Sinola) but per local and state law enforcement the family is still watched and several members are under surveillance. This is directly from law enforcement's mouth." - This is not directly from law enforcement's mouth. Where did LE say this? Give me a link. And don't just say that a cop told you in a bar one night.

"I know what goes on here and I have sources that are more than credible." - Yeah right. Why should anybody believe you? Nothing you've said has been proven right.

@Sonny Blackstein said this on the 2016 thread, which sums it up quite nicely:
"I also think it's suspicious that 'Rooster' who has 'street' knowledge claims not to know any members personally yet seems to know the hierarchy of a secret society and when they have making ceremonies, what crews are active etc etc " - That is an interesting point since if your sources were all law enforcement, and law enforcement knows about this secret society's making ceremonies, rackets, etc. why haven't there been any busts. All these cops are telling you stuff about the Buffalo mob and are illustrating their involvement in organized crime. Why hasn't there been a single bust in over 15 years??? Also, you have yet to explain anything about the "recent busts" you mentioned, even though I have asked you numerous times about them.

"That making ceremony was talked about in various circles many times over for years, this stuff isn't a secret." - Give me a break.

"Sources? ok no problem, Ill make sure to get notarized affidavits from all of them and possible see if they'll take a lie detector test that I can show you the results of because of the belief that you validating my stories means something to me." - I don't see why you're being sarcastic. It's perfectly acceptable to ask for sources. Otherwise anyone can bullshit.

By the way, you seem to have no problem citing Ron Fino as a source on the family's current matters since he mentioned 15+ years ago that the family had a chance of rebuilding and that the unions weren't fully cleaned up. But, as someone on the other thread mentioned, he posted this on his Facebook: http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/19/fbi-says-buffalos-mafia-family-ceased-operations/ which means he pretty much views the family as dead as well.

I totally understand and respect your decision to believe journalists over a bloggers. What else can I do than divulge what I believe to be factual? Would it make you feel better if I were to concede to your assumptions? Im confused as to what your real input is to this forum.

To me, in your rebuttals and refuting, I consider you to be full of crap. So what is the point? For me to try to prove to someone that the family is viable? I already gave this info two years ago. Its active and holds a hierarchy, as simple as that.

I am punching holes in your story that I believe need to be addressed so that other people aren't misled. If you can prove that the family is still active, and you can address the points I have made, then we can give you the benefit of the doubt. This is a forum for discussion and if everyone was allowed to spout out whatever they want without being pressed for proof, then that's just anarchy.

If your story is 100% legit, then surely you can address the points I have made. It shouldn't be difficult. For example, what are the busts you cited? I have asked you numerous times and you choose to ignore that. How come your law enforcement sources a) know the whole hierarchy of the family, b) know the rough whereabouts of whose being made, c) what rackets are active, d) conducting surveillance on various members then why hasn't there a) been a bust or b) been any sort of statement to the press.

Fratello is the only made member still partially active. A few associates are still active, but there is no family there, unless you count Philadelphia.

The_Rooster, are you talking about Michael Wilson for the 2010 and 2012? He only rubbed shoulders with some of those members of Buffalo and they only knew him as George Possiodis, an alias. There is no proof that Giglia and Tavano were involved with Phantom Holdings.

Let's just wait for the violi trial

Yes, lets wait for the Violi trial. I know things because I hear things, I am going by what I hear and what I believe to be factual, not simply journalists stories that you believe to be gospel and waiting on FBI to lie to the general public anyway so they can look like organized crime eradicating heroes to us. You really dont think law enforcement is keeping tabs on these guys, they still want to put Bifulco away for life for a bunch of old murders. You dont think that if a beat cop tells someone that then its probably the truth? Its not a secret organization, all of these guys have friends and hang arounds that talk, people in the community know who these guys are and what they do. There is younger guys that are definitely made like Feliciano and Cardinale. I already told you , the Cohen bust in 10 and the Wilson bust Giacomi just brought up, and not every bust has to have a high profile member attached to be considered an actual bust. Made members dont have to be charged in order to have benefitted from a crime/scam. The bust in '17 was a Buffalo bust no matter how you want to interpret the story. There still is union corruption at both the 210 and 91, and I believe at the grocers union ,there is still a huge book, there is still loans, there is still backdoor deals, fencing, etc., etc. and tribute is paid. They are not a huge priority for local law enforcement because they do not kill anymore and they are organized and quasi legit. Buffalo/Niagara has a lot of other issues to deal with like gangs, opiod epidemic, drug, gun, and sex trafficking through the borders. Like you said, this is a forum, Im just giving my input but to continually have to drive my points home and be considered a liar because a news article that is ridiculous and is a form of entertainment in itself contradicts my story is a waste of time. Detroit is active and very insulated, theres not a bust every couple of years, and some people claim that KC is active. The Mafia today is a different Mafia, its weakened obviously and Buffalo is probably the weakest, but it exists.

Another bust we can reference is the rich guy from Rochester who owned those restaurants and got caught with the huge book and hit with money laundering....can someone help me on that one?
Also, in the early 2010s, 2 reputed younger soldiers from Rochester got caught with drugs and guns in Ithaca. It was online at one point.

I think Pittsburgh is active

Yes, for sure, along with Seattle and Denver

If I can agree with you and say buffalo is active, how can you disagree with me on Pittsburgh? There's more evidence that Pittsburgh if functioning as an organized group than buffalo

I believe we should. And pinned to the top maybe?

There seems to be two types of posters:

1) The "Ivy" posters who concentrate on FBI and credible LE sources, journalists,etc.
2) The "Pizzaboy" posters who have internal knowledge of what is going on.

Both of them are gone, and it's getting hard to discern real news from fake news... Just my opinion.

If it's really not a secret organization, and the community knows about then why hasn't the news picked up on it. According to you, everyone in the community as well as law enforcement knows about this not-so-secret society, and whose in charge, etc., but for some reason the area's leading newsmen have been declaring it dead? Something doesn't add up there.


I've tried googling this Cohen bust and have come up with nothing. Also I have seen nothing which indicates Michael Wilson was involved with the Mafia, either now or in the past. If you have any sort of evidence to back up the claim that Wilson is a mob associate or something similar, I'd love to hear it.


Wait a minute. They are still involved in union corruption, a huge book, loansharking, backdoor feals, fencing, etc..... but they are quasi-legit? Hmm. If the group was involved in this many illegal activities, then they would still be prominent on law enforcement's radar. And there would be busts.


I am not using that news article as the basis of my story that the Mafia is dead. I am just poking holes in your image of what the Buffalo mafia is. If you respond to the points I have made, then this forum can be a better place and we can gauge your reliability.



Can you provide any sort of news item whatsoever on the arrest of 2 Rochester soldiers? Even if the article doesn't reference their mob ties, there would be something in the news -
a drug and gun bust usually is. Also, what were their names? Surely, if they were soldiers, the feds and press would have jumped on that? Given that mob ties make a case a lot stronger and if the feds can prove a mob organization is still active they can guarantee more funding from Washington? And wouldn't the local media love to hear about a bust with mob ties?

Any links whatsoever to these arrests would be okay.

Thiers know articles on buffalo guys getting arrested, but Thiers alot of articles on Pittsburgh guys getting arrested
@flushing...pizza boy is a bad example, he told lies to protect his friends

I miss lvy posts...

I cant keep going back and forth. Ive given all my info. Articles dont mean everything, busts dont mean everything, quasi legit means that a guy like Todaro is legit but a guy like Bifulco isnt when looking at the family as a whole. The rackets are in tact. Law enforcements priorities have shifted. Does fencing 10k worth of goods a few times a year constitute a racket, does kick backs on contracts within the union? Do you really think theres not a huge book there? Who took over Nicolettis when he died? You said there are no young members, thats incorrect. You rely on a leading newsman to decide they are dead, fine. Thats your right. Cohen bust is online, he was close to Nicoletti and the Luccheses. Wilson is a mob associate, there are no articles or affidavits I have in my possession to help you believe. The two soldiers from Rochester that I reference as getting arrested is a fact. If the article isnt online it isnt online. The community knows who these guys are, my image is one of reliable sources that arent online or in fbi documents.

Again, lets wait and see what happens in the Violi case. Which WAS a Buffalo bust. Interpret it how youd like, we could say it was a transnational separate from any true Mafia structure ic we wanted to based on the articles but that wouldnt make any sense either.

I really havent payed attention to Pittsburgh, but they could have an active crew, its possible

Alright @Rooster, I'll leave it as that. But a drugs/gun bust with two potential mob soldiers would definitely be online, and it would probably be addressed by the feds. So I think you're lying about that one.
Also, you have to remember that you started this argument by calling everyone delusional for not believing the Buffalo mob exists anymore.

WHAT???

If you think about Buffalo was/is a very important supply route from Canada

During Prohibition it was used for liquor and shortly thereafter as as drug route you have the family that is set up on both sides to smuggle whatever

That alone is HUGE

That route is how alot of the families in the US are getting their drugs shipped in.

Why would they ever give that up?

It looks like the Canadians have full control over that. Even in the 1990s it didn't seem like Buffalo was hugely involved in that drug/liquor route, although I could be wrong.

so you guys believe that there is a family with hierarchy over there ?
do they have good contacts with the other ny families or only canadians families ?

I do not have any first or second hand knowledge of such.

I am guessing that since such a route with be worth so much in terms of dollars, and be app hard to establish from scratch.

That the guys in Buffalo I can't see why they would ever let that go

.

Rooster has a) they are rebuilding ties to Canada and b) they are losing ties to Canada. Neither of which have been backed up with any evidence.

I wouldn't doubt they have good contacts with NY. I don't really know because I ain't from NYC, but they are likely an important stop between the Canadian and NYC guys. A unique hybrid.

at Nicky....In order to be rebuilding ties they would have had to lost them, so yes it can overlap. I never said currently losing. The big bust in '90 and the big bust last year prove they, had, and the bust in 03 prove they still had, and then probably lost to an extent, and somewhere in between, they rebuilt.

What I would like to know is with the Nick Nero bust, if they had all these tractor trailers of drugs sitting in Buffalo, who knew about them? You need local contacts and infrastructure to house and them and people on the ground in Buffalo. In that trial no real information came out about it, just vague references

Ivy League still posts regular on Black Hand. HE still quotes from LE sources/indictments daily.
That said, I am the boss of Buffalo, and I am here to tell you that my UB; Consig; and 4 capos are
very tired of youse guys telling everyone that were are a defunct family.